ATTN: Electical Gurus..HID kit causing back-feeding?

I came across a posting talking about adding HIDs to the USDM Lagacy. You made mention to Subarus ground switched headlight layout and the need for a special relay setup. I purchased an H7 HID conversion kit from Xenon Factory, and it ran without too much fuss for nearly 4 months. It's a full kit including a dual relay kit..one for each headlight. Per everyone's recomendation online, I did disable the DRL module in my Legacy my unplugging the white connector from the module. I didnt see a point in having my HID's on during the daytime. The install went flawlessly, with one exception. When I activate the flash to pass feature, both my LOW and HIGH beams come on, whereas my stock setup, allowed just the highs to flash. I e-mailed both Xenon Factory as well as Polarion Lighting, the MFR of the lighting kit, but they gave no recomendations, even after I brought up the question about ground switching. I know that cycling power on and off to the ballasts isnt good for the HIDs, so I honestly just stopped using the flash to pass feature, and didnt think too much more about that one small idiosyncracy. The relay setup with the kit wires directly into the existing headlight spade connectors, and per the instructions, the polarity of the wiring to the relays doesn't matter. My concern after reading as much as I could about ground switching is that this setup might somehow cause a back-feeding of 12 volts across one or more of the ground feeds to the ground-switched headlight system. I also fear that this backfeeding could , if truly present, somehow damage my headlight switch in the turn signal stalk. During my reserch online, I did find mention of installing heavy duty diodes somewhere in the harnesses to prevent the backfeeding, but clear instructions were nowhere to be found. Once again, I posed a question to both Xenon Factory and Polarion lighting regarding the need for a diode and the dangers of backfeeding backfeeding, but they offered no advice. FAST FORWARD 4 months... About 2 weeks ago, my Legacy GT started to exhibit a rather strange trait. About 5-10 miles into driving, the AUX cooling fan in the engine bay would turn on and run continuously. The fan was really noticable while idling at a stoplight, my car literally sounded like it was going to take off. Now I'm used to the A/C cooling fan cycling on and off with the compressor, and at times during the summer, the main cooling fan would cycle on and off to keep the engine running cool, just as every car I've ever owned has done, however once the fan turned on, it would never shut off. The only way to get the fan to shut off was to shut off the car. Even after leaving the car idling for nearly 20 mins, the fans still wouldn't shut off Now, it's approaching winter here in New England, so I knew it wasn't a matter of the engine getting too hot. Also, the coolant temp. gauge never passes higher that the halfway point, so I knew it wasn't a heat issue. I innitially figured it had to be a relay, so I promptly made an appt. to have the dealership where I bought the car take a peak at the situation. My dealer was far too quick to blame the HIDs as causing the problem, and to their credit, the service manager did demonstrate just once the fan kicking in immediately after turning on the HIDs. I have since totally removed the HID kit, relays, ballasts, etc...and even with the stock headlight setup the problem persists. I have seemed to notice can say that it does seem to happen more frequently and/or sooner if the headlights are on, but I honestly havent had enough time to really play around with it. I brought my car to another local dealership, with the stock headlight setup in place, and they were able to determine that it was an issue with the cooling fan relay, or something along those lines. The first dealer was able to tell me that they did get an error code from the Body Integrated Unit, which from my understanding is like an ECU for the electrical/computer system. One of my ballasts was grounded near the radiator mounts on the passenger side, so my big question is whether or not, my HID kit could have caused my cooling fan relay to "fail". I was very happy with my HID kit, but am I asking for further trouble down the line if I get the fan issue taken care of and reinstall the HID kit back into the vehicle without making any changes to the relay setup? Can you make an recommendations regarding rewiring my relays to restore OEM functionality to my flash to pass feature? What if any sort of diode should I install into my harness, and more importantly, where should it be "wired in" to prevent the rumored back-feeding? My dad's an electrician, and I've got a good basic understanding of how elctricity and circuits work, but this whole situation has me truly baffled. Any and all help or advice you can provide would be most thoroughly appreciated. Thanks in advance... - Justin ***RALLYON***

Normally, using relays means there's no chance of voltage "backfeeding". I couldn't know 100% without seeing a diagram of your wiring setup. In any case, if there was a problem with your wiring it woudl have been immediate, not months later. I would say you happened to get a defective fan or fan relay, and that it was completely unrelated to your headlight arrangment. BTW, the reason you get both beams with the flash-to-pass is because your new relays are designed to leave both bulbs on during high beam, just like stock. The flash-to-pass in most cars is wired directly to the high beams, but in this case that triggers both your relays and you get both beams. Nothing to worry about there at all.

in order to get around the highs turning on the lows you would have to install to more relays. this way when highs are triggered to flash the ground is disabled on the ballasts.

I just ordered H7 HID bulbs from Xenon Factory. (I got the 6000k bulbs). I will report back with any issues I have. I already have the ballasts and relays from another kit...so it wont be exactly the same setup, but close enough. By the way, did you have the 6000k bulbs too? If so, do you have any pics?

im not sure if ur talking to me but no i dont use 6000k bulbs. i will be using oem 4100k d2s bulbs out of a bmw or audi along with bd2s ballasts. 4100k bulbs have better outout while 6000k may look cooler to some. i prefer to blend in with all th eother cars with xenon from the factory. i need to get my hands on one more ballast before i can do the conversion. i had retrod a bmw bi-xenon setup in my acura. [img]http://mywebpages.comcast.net/vx16.temp/animatedhid.gif[/img][url="http://mywebpages.comcast.net/vx16.temp/animatedhid.gif"][/url]

Actually that was meant for quicksilver77, but thanks for the info anyway. I prefer the OEM look also, and I found that my old 6000k bulbs seemed a lot closer to factory color than the 4000k ones that I've seen. In my 2000 Legacy, the color was very close to an Acura. My old 6000k kit: [img]http://www.wardpoulos.com/images/suby/[/img] The 4000k kits I have seen seem to look closer to a blue-green than a violet. I know that they have more light output, but IMHO they look more aftermarket than 6000k's. Here is a 4100k kit example from Xenon Factory: [img]http://www.xenonfactory.com/resources/customers/jay_2.jpg[/img] Of course, as we know, housings and manufacturers has a lot to do with the "perceived color," so I will report back when I see my new bulbs in the new projector lights! (i hope they're not too purple...) Sorry for hijacking the thread!

See the problem is that their is no standard in aftermarket. 4100k in an oem osram or philips bulb will actually be 4100k. maybe 4300k. in aftermarket 6000k to one company is prob not the same to another. especially since the kelvin rating isnt being created by the gas itself. the highest rated kelvin in philips is 6000k and osram is 5300 i believe. these bulbs are expensive and the temp rating is deternmined by the gas inside not a coating in the capsule. again if you want to solve your flashing from powerin up your ballasts u need to setup another set of relays to disable them when the highs are triggered, but then when u need to use the highs at night your xenons will be triggered off. if i was you i would just run the xenons all the time. thats what i did on my acura. i cant speak for aftermarket kits but oem stuff lasts a long time.

hey VXCL, you used to be (or still are) over on acura-cl.com aren't you? i remember the SN, and the car in your sig up top. nice to see you over here as well.

[QUOTE=Rexmobbin']hey VXCL, you used to be (or still are) over on acura-cl.com aren't you? i remember the SN, and the car in your sig up top. nice to see you over here as well.[/QUOTE] yeah thats me VXCL from over there. i still got the cl for now. [img]http://mywebpages.comcast.net/vxcl/rim3.jpg[/img] [img]http://mywebpages.comcast.net/vxcl/rim4.jpg[/img] [img]http://mywebpages.comcast.net/vxcl/rim5.jpg[/img] im at college right now so im planning on trying to sell it when i get back. i didn't know anyone else bought a new legacy. i know a couple got wrxs and an sti or two. i did not think i would run into anyone i knew over here. also while im thinking of it the drls may not be such a bad thing after all. im pretty sure theres enough voltage to trigger a relay so i could just run my xenon d2s setup as drls without all the other lights on. also i would never need to turn my lights on past park becuase the xenons would be powered directly off the batt and jst triggered by the low beam circuit. xenons last forever so i dont care. plus i acess to plenty of oem xenon parts. i've been running a pair of philips bulbs all the time on my acura for two years now.

[quote name='VXCL'] im at college right now so im planning on trying to sell it when i get back. i didn't know anyone else bought a new legacy. i know a couple got wrxs and an sti or two. i did not think i would run into anyone i knew over here. [/QUOTE] Do I see a fellow Hokie? It looks as though I may... -Casey Virginia Tech '04

[quote name='cliss']Do I see a fellow Hokie? It looks as though I may... -Casey Virginia Tech '04[/QUOTE]No I'm at Penn State. :D can't wait to go back to nj cuz winters in happy valley are the worst.

Hokie Acc Champs!

[quote name='VXCL']No I'm at Penn State. :D can't wait to go back to nj cuz winters in happy valley are the worst.[/QUOTE] Ah, crap. The apartment complex in the background of your pix looks [b]identical[/b] to a complex down in Blacksburg. And here I was thinking I was a super-smart detective-guy or something. :lol: Does it redeem me any if I tell you my little brother is a freshman down in Happy Valley? :confused::p

[quote name='ssaldana']Hokie Acc Champs![/QUOTE] Absolutely! :D

[quote name='cliss']Ah, crap. The apartment complex in the background of your pix looks [b]identical[/b] to a complex down in Blacksburg. And here I was thinking I was a super-smart detective-guy or something. :lol: Does it redeem me any if I tell you my little brother is a freshman down in Happy Valley? :confused::p[/QUOTE] do they have college park communites down there? thats who owns this complex and i know they own a ton of others all over the us.

[quote name='VXCL']do they have college park communites down there? thats who owns this complex and i know they own a ton of others all over the us.[/QUOTE] Yes, the community I'm thinking of was called College Park in the days of yore. That explains that. :-P I didn't realize they were that ubiquitous. I also didn't realize all their complexes look [b]identical[/b]. Since then, it was sold to some other management company and is now "The Village"... dunno what the deal is with that. -Casey

FAST FORWARD 4 months...

 

About 2 weeks ago, my Legacy GT started to exhibit a rather strange trait. About 5-10 miles into driving, the AUX cooling fan in the engine bay would turn on and run continuously. The fan was really noticable while idling at a stoplight, my car literally sounded like it was going to take off. Now I'm used to the A/C cooling fan cycling on and off with the compressor, and at times during the summer, the main cooling fan would cycle on and off to keep the engine running cool, just as every car I've ever owned has done, however once the fan turned on, it would never shut off. The only way to get the fan to shut off was to shut off the car. Even after leaving the car idling for nearly 20 mins, the fans still wouldn't shut off Now, it's approaching winter here in New England, so I knew it wasn't a matter of the engine getting too hot. Also, the coolant temp. gauge never passes higher that the halfway point, so I knew it wasn't a heat issue. I innitially figured it had to be a relay, so I promptly made an appt. to have the dealership where I bought the car take a peak at the situation. My dealer was far too quick to blame the HIDs as causing the problem, and to their credit, the service manager did demonstrate just once the fan kicking in immediately after turning on the HIDs. I have since totally removed the HID kit, relays, ballasts, etc...and even with the stock headlight setup the problem persists. I have seemed to notice can say that it does seem to happen more frequently and/or sooner if the headlights are on, but I honestly havent had enough time to really play around with it. I brought my car to another local dealership, with the stock headlight setup in place, and they were able to determine that it was an issue with the cooling fan relay, or something along those lines. The first dealer was able to tell me that they did get an error code from the Body Integrated Unit, which from my understanding is like an ECU for the electrical/computer system. One of my ballasts was grounded near the radiator mounts on the passenger side, so my big question is whether or not, my HID kit could have caused my cooling fan relay to "fail". I was very happy with my HID kit, but am I asking for further trouble down the line if I get the fan issue taken care of and reinstall the HID kit back into the vehicle without making any changes to the relay setup? Can you make an recommendations regarding rewiring my relays to restore OEM functionality to my flash to pass feature? What if any sort of diode should I install into my harness, and more importantly, where should it be "wired in" to prevent the rumored back-feeding? My dad's an electrician, and I've got a good basic understanding of how elctricity and circuits work, but this whole situation has me truly baffled. Any and all help or advice you can provide would be most thoroughly appreciated.

quote]

 

Hey quicksilver,

 

I have made some observations in general about HID Kits at:

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105017

 

I feel there maybe some CAN Bus susceptibility issues when Ballasts are installed in our vehicles.

 

Would be interested in hearing if you have any other intermittent or infrequent electrical issues with any other systems in your vehicle, central locking, interior lighting, stereo sysem, airconditioning system, etc.

 

Sometimes the damage is not as clear as "working" and "not working". In electrical systems which are susceptible to EMI and RFI the extent of the damage may range from reduced life to slow degradation to intermittent/infrequent to total failure.

 

Don't mean to alarm you in any way as my opinion is not supported by empirical data at this point, but after reading several forums pertaining to HID Kit problems and CAN Bus susceptibility to EMI and RFI and with lower quality ballasts widely available on the market, there is a growing body of examples of impacts on our vehicles. Hope yours is not one of them.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Mark.

This is an OLD thread.

 

There is also a recall for the replacement of the cooling fan relay which could have been his problem, and it was just a coincidence.

Thanks,

 

I missed the year (2004) in the date of the thread.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Mark.

Yes, I know..i'm late to the party.....

in order to get around the highs turning on the lows you would have to install to more relays. this way when highs are triggered to flash the ground is disabled on the ballasts.

i'm still getting used to the ground switching circuits on subarus.......(primarily owned Hondas and one VW...)

 

... running a DDM 55W kit with the relay harness (to supply battery voltage at all times)

 

with that said, how do I wire up the relay to cut power in the instance of flashing to pass..... also, wouldn't that cause issues when the low beams are already on at night?