another head gasket issue..

hey guys..

new to the forum, been lurking for a while

this is my new car

http://i50.tinypic.com/28uqu4h.jpg

 

i love it, its done 352000 kms :/ it has issues..

at first got defected for the windscreen being to scratched (it wasnt),then the crank keyway snapped and the crank pulley was worn down too much, cost $1200 for replacements and labour, then it started leaking then overheating, then leaking again before the head gasket issue....

today dad and i pulled the engine out (ej22).. iv never pulled an engine out before and dads never pulled one out of a subaru so it was a little scary but had a repair manual and we managed to get it out without to much hassle

http://i45.tinypic.com/2be93d.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/29qno1v.jpg

 

we followed the workshop manual to get the timing belt off.. it said to loosen the tensioner bolts and push the tensioner in and lock it with a locking pin, so we loosened the two bolts and now we cant push the tensioner into get the locking pin in.. its the older version

http://i48.tinypic.com/34j2g3k.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/qqeo8p.jpg

is there another way to push the thing back to get the locking pin in place?

or should i buy a new one that works?

 

we got the timing belt off by taking off two off the other pulleys, undone the bolts and it just slid off.

we then went to undo the head bolts -.-

the last mechanic that replaced the gasket did them up way too tight.. we snapped a breaker bar and a socket so i went and bought a 1/2 inch drive 14mm socket and a 1/2 breaker bar and with an extreme amount of force managed to undo the bolts.. took the heads off and the gasket was deformed and ripped and broken.. looked horrible.. dads got work tomorrow so my job will be taking everything off the heads so i can take them to the engine shop to get them machined on monday.. got a new gasket kit ($295) and new head bolts.. is there anything else i need to know or should do before putting it all back together?

any help is much appreciated

You have to put the tensioner in a vise or clamp and slowly compress it over the course of three or four minutes. If it is weeping at all then it should be replaced. Subaru techs re-use them if there isn't any weeping. I have talked to a few regarding this and they said the older style tensioners such as yours rarely, if ever fail. Many on this board would just advise you to always purchase a new one when doing the timing, but in the end it is your call. Personally, I use a new one. It is about $100 or so here in the US. A failing tensioner will ruin your new timing belt.

 

If you would like the Subaru Factory Service Manual send me a PM with your email and I'll be happy to send it to you. It is much better than any repair manual you can get at the store.

ok cool thanks for that

the tensioner isnt leaking but dad took the little allen key screw out of the back and it was full of fluid so he put it back in

ill buy a new on just to be safe

Yeah buy a new one cuz you probably released the pressure when he removed that plug. Plus the new one will come already compressed so no need to to that. Your timing belt looks brand new, you can still see the alignment marks on the belt. With the head bolts I've heard mixed comments. My buddy who is a Subaru master tech said they always reuse the org head bolts but some on here say to get new ones. Usually is a bolt is a toqure to yeld type then I will replace then everytime. What type of head gasket did he use? Stay away from those composite type gaskets and only get a Subaru MLS gasket. Every Subaru head gasket job I've done the head bolts were tough to get lose, but I dont understand what you were even trying to losen them with a 3/8 drive.

Also search on here for the updated TQ procedure as it has changed and make sure you check the blocks decks for straightness. The blocks can warp just as easy as the cylinder heads.

I agree you should use Subaru mls gaskets...you could use the cometic ultra thin hg's, I been looking into those as well I'm about to do a set of hgs on my 90 wagon in a few weeks..the ultra thins will bump your compression a bit as well as giving you piece of mind that you will never have to do them again provided you follow the torque sequence and all guidelines given to you. I wouldn't follow the repair manual you have...it maybe outdated, Subaru went through 2 headgasket changes in the 90s. So the torque sequences MAY have changed along with the revisions.

Good luck on that repair...keep updating and tell everyone how it goes for you..

OEM Subaru HGs and you can't go wrong.

ok i went into the engine workshop today and they quoted me $3000 for a complete rebuild with 30 thou oversized, port and polished intake and shaved heads and said it would take about 8 weeks to finish because their running behind.. is that a good or bad price??

yeah the whole timing is new coz the crank keyway snapped during the christmas break, so the mechanic replaced the whole lot

$3000 isn't bad but would they just port&polish the intake manifold, the cylinder heads or just the intake ports on the cylinder heads? It's better to have both exhaust and intake ports worked. I usually charge $2,000 to fully work a 2jz cylinder head, meaning a resurface, 3 angle valve job and re-shim, port and polish both intake and exhaust ports with bowl blend work in addition to a complete bench flow test on each cylinder and a good cleaning. Parts are extra and so is a intake manifold port match. So $3k for a entire rebuild is good IF the work is top notch.

pretty sure he said it was just the intake manifold and ports.. cant quite remember now.. 2jz.. id love one but i know how i drive

Is the rebuild necessary? Normally when doing a HG replacement you can get the heads checked for flatness and get them decked if necessary for about $75-100. It doesn't hurt to get the valves checked out, etc. It would be nice to get the rebuild done, but for that much you could get a low mileage turbo engine from japan with a transmission and do a swap! You won't be getting a huge performance increase from the rebuild.

 

I would only do a rebuild if I knew the bearings were shot, a bad rod knock, or serious problems with one of the cylinders. But that is because for me it would be too expensive and I would just swap in a replacement 22E as they are cheap and plentiful where I live. You could always replace the piston rings for good measure.

the rebuild isnt necessary but we thought because the engines out and its high mileage might aswell get it done.. but in saying that u are right about getting a turbo engine... i found a ej20t for just under $1000 not including shipping

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Engine-JDM-EJ20T-DOHC-2-0L-Turbo-16-Valve-4-Cyl-Motor-Subaru-WRX-GC8-97-EJ20-T-/271140356384?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f21398120&_uhb=1

i am thinking of putting this in instead of the rebuild, its cheaper and would better for me (i like power)

More power more fun...I would just do that too...

Read the turbo faq before you pull the trigger: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2nd-gen-engine-faq-turbos-mpg-engine-builds-engine-swaps-167968.html

 

That would be a lot of fun. But keep in mind you will need the correct wiring harness to merge with your own as well as the scu. Or you will need to go with a standalone engine management system. You'll also need a new exhaust, including downpipe. And a crossmember from a turbo legacy or wrx for the down pipe to clear.

 

You can find engines with the wiring harness and ecu sometimes.

 

I like power too. I'm hoping to do a turbo swap someday into my wagon. I'm saving and gathering parts. I love the power of my SS though. I finally got it running up to its full potential a few days ago after a year of struggles. But I gave it to my wife for her DD so I don't get to enjoy it as much as I want, lol.

i didnt realise about the crossmember.. all the engines iv seen for sale are all about $3000 plus shipping/freight.. might just get it rebuilt, less trouble.. might save up and buy a newer turbo model down the track (when there cheap enough)

Just get the heads decked and replace the HGs and get your car back on the road cheaply. Then save up for the turbo swap! I wouldn't do a rebuild unless I knew I had bad bearings or rod knock. I'm not saying a complete rebuild is a bad idea, but I don't want you to spend your hard earned money unless you have to.

 

My 22E has over 264,000 miles which is more than your engine so you may have a lot of life left in yours.

sounds like an idea.. ill go to the engine place tommoro and see how long till they can get me in and get them done.. can i still do the timing belt with my tensioner? i dont have the locking pin to compress it..

use a small allen wrench or a big paper clip, you dont need a special pin for it. and make sure you compress it SLOWLY. like 3 minute slowly. i put mine in a vice and did a half turn every 20 seconds or so until it lined up.

A paperclip will work. I don't know if I would trust it after your dad took the allen key off the back. But I don't know if that would do anything, as long as the fluid didn't spill out. Try compressing it and see how it feels.

dropped heads off to be machined.. the guy said they will be ready by 4pm tommoro

none of the fluid spilt out when dad took it off.. it was at the top when he undid it.. i have an allen wrench to go in the locking holes.. will compress it tommoro at work in the vice.. should i place something on either end to prevent any damage to the tensioner from the vice? or will it not matter..

hopefully get her running this weekend, hate driving my old car.. 94 daewoo cielo -.- lol

ok heads are on and timing is all done.. hopefully get the motor back in today and hopefully running tommorow or monday

ok got engine in.. hooked everything up.. filled up oil and coolant... still leakes.. same spot... after looking for a little bit i think i may be the water pump.. its leaking from behind the thermostat.. but it looks like its coming from higher up and running down??

can the water pump be replaced without removing the engine again? not keen on removing again

Yeah, water pump is easily accessible, that the great part about the layout on boxer motors...everything you need to deal with is right up front for you. Its usually a good idea to replace the water pump when you replace timing belt, some sell kits that include it in the timing component kits.

 

Glad you are making progress on it and you will have her back soon...I know how crappy it is not to have your Subaru, mine was down for over a month while I was getting the new motor squared away and waiting on parts for the build.

Of course you will have to remove the timing belt to replace it. It helps to remove the radiator so you have more room. I assumed you were replacing the water pump when you did the timing. Did you pep lace the oil separator plate when you had the engine out or check for oil leaks in the rear of the engine?