5MT won't go into gear

Just about 3 weeks ago I noticed that my car won't go into *any* gear after it's been sitting a few hours in my garage, in temps anywhere from 30-60F. I've bled the thing, changed the synthetic transmission fluid, and adjusted the pedal, but it will only go into gear if i pump the pedal fast 4-5 times and hold it against a gear or press REALLY hard down on the clutch and hold. Usually 3rd will go in first and then it becomes easier to get it into 1st or R. If i can get it into gear, there is no problem shifting up and down after the car gets moving (shouldn't be the synchros). The ACT clutch was replaced in the fall of 2010 so things shouldn't be going bad so soon.

 

Funny thing is that the problem will go away entirely once the car warms up. After 10min driving, i'll usually be able to get it into 1st at a stop without any issues. If not, i just pump the pedal a few more times.

 

Anyone have this problem before and/or might know what's going bad? I have no leaks from either the clutch master or slave cylinders and my fluid is fresh with only fine metallic powder stuck to the transmission magnet when i replaced my fluid. No grinding when I shift between gears (unless i do it too fast in the cold). I'm totally stumped!

 

Diagnosis Help?

 

Edit:

Problem Solved, the clutch master cylinder was probably leaking internally and unable to hold pressure in the line. I purchased a replacement on amazon: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EPY1TM/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00]Amazon.com: Centric Parts 136.47006 Clutch Master Cylinder: Automotive[/ame] and everything is back to normal now - including a clutch squeak I've always had on the car.

Does it go into gear more easily with the car turned off?

 

What fluid are you using?

It's a outside shot, but, make sure the piston on the clutch slave cylinder moves in a straight line, not down at an angle.

 

If it moves down at an angle the TOB fork may not be postioned right.

May I suggest you stop driving the car until you figure this problem out? Whatever the problem is, you might just be making things worse, and might break another component (clutch) while you are forcing things to go.

unfortunately it is my only DD and once everything warms up it's not really an issue (not even noticeable)... that's what makes it weird. I've taken to being more gentle with it and waiting until it's "ready" to go into gear, so i'm not forcing anything anymore. I'm running synthetic supertech 75w90 from walmart, I used it two transmission changes ago and it worked fine even down to super cold temps.

 

BAC5.2: Not always, but I have found that it will sometimes get into gears 1 and 2 better with the engine off. I've adjusted the pedal now so that engagement point is like 20% from the floor (was 10%) so i'm pretty sure it's not binding.

 

Max Capacity: I'll check to see if the pin travels an angle. I bled the cylinder monday night but i didn't notice any major deflection, would a mis-aligned fork position itself correctly once the car warms up?

How many miles on the clutch?

 

Did the pedal recently get very stiff when you noticed this, by chance?

No if the fork fell off the pivot ball, you need to find out why.

 

Mine dropped off while I was installing the tranny.

+1 to the throw out bearing, same exact issue with my old car.

No, the shift fork seems to be in the right place without much play. The clutch only has ~15k on it w/ a new bearing from ACT (always had that clutch rattle on deceleration) so I doubt it would be the TOB w/o any other loud whining noises. No real pedal feel difference recently either.

 

Since it snowed here in central VA last night i did notice that if it wouldn't go into gear, if i just pressed HARDER on the clutch it would slide into gear. This leads me to think that the throw is not long enough when the car is cold (even though i've adjusted the engagement point). Could a symptom of a bad clutch master or slave cylinder be that it "picks up more fluid" after it warms up vs when cold? That would sort of explain why it sometimes will go into gear after i pump it a few times.

 

Thanks for your help so far guys!

To me it sounds like you have air in the system. I don't think it's related to engine temp...more likely you're pumping the clutch pedal and building up pressure as you drive. You could always just start the car and let it warm up without driving it to verify.

 

Also, pull off the tmic and have a friend push the clutch in and out a few times and check the throw on the slave pin.

 

Don't forget to check around the slave for traces of fluid.

The clutch is definitely not fully disengaging.

 

The most common causes of this are a broken finger on the pressure plate, a dropped fork (which would change the pedal feel), or a leak in the hydraulics.

 

I'd pull the TMIC and the plug on top of the trans and inspect the pressure plate. You might need a small mirror. Turn the engine over by hand using a socket and breaker bar. If its a dropped fork or a broken finger, the trans has to come out of the car to fix.

 

Doing nothing will hurt the transmission, so I advise diagnosing and fixing ASAP.

BAC5.2: it definitely does not seem like the clutch is fully disengaging, but if it was due to a bum PP or bad fork, it wouldn't work 100% after the car warms up and I've driven it, right? After 5-10 min of driving around town I can get into 1st even at 10-15MPH with the clutch in, just like it was a few weeks ago. I'll check everything, but I'm still leaning towards air in the system or a bad clutch master cylinder.

 

I'll pull the TMIC and bleed the clutch this weekend (it'd be like the 3rd time) and let you guys know what happens. Thanks.

When I swapped my 5mt the fork dropped and when releasing the clutch a very bad loud grinding/whining noise was emitted. After seeing the slave pin angle we loosened the trans pulled it into proper position and it's been great since. Point is if your fork has dropped it would not improve after warm up, so you can likely rule that out.

Hey everyone, just an update for you guys and for record's sake.

 

I took everything apart and beld it two weeks ago, to no avail. No leaks, misalignment, weird noises, or clutch line damage at all. Clutch and gears would work 100% after warming up, but the next morning once everything was shut down, there was significant clutch binding and there would be major issues getting into gear.

 

I decided the issue was with either the clutch master or slave cylinders, that there was an issue with actuation. Since the slave has only one set of seals and nothing was noticed to be leaking past them, I determined that the issue must've been with one of the seals in the master cylinder. I ordered Centric Parts 136.47006 Clutch Master Cylinder last week and replaced the bum CMC a few days ago. (BTW, the Centric CMC seems to be made by NABCO, the same OE that subaru uses)

 

After bleeding everything and adjusting the throw, everything seems to be A-OK and the problem is solved! The clutch is generally "firmer" and i can really feel that i'm pushing fluid firmly through the clutch and building pressure. My old CMC felt like something was leaking through the seals in comparison.

 

Thank you guys all for the help! I honed my manual skills on this car and taught two other people how to drive it.. in NYC traffic. I'm not at all surprised I wore down the seals on the CMC at 85k mi.

congrats with the fix ! I think something similar is under development with mine - 2nd and 3rd got "notchy" to get in, I have to really push clutch pedal to get them in. Where did you get the CMS and how much was it ?

I have the exact same problem and checked everything but haven't tried swapping the CMC yet, I'll be doing that this weekend with another one I have laying around. Hopefully that solves the issue.

Updated first post with solution and part source!

In regards to your clutch squeak, get a tsk3 sleeve kit. That's your tob hitting the tangs on the pressure plate. Or you can try the spring "mod" for your clutch form.

In regards to your clutch squeak, get a tsk3 sleeve kit. That's your tob hitting the tangs on the pressure plate. Or you can try the spring "mod" for your clutch form.

 

I believe he's talking about the noise from the pedal assembly or the pivot point, not the TOB. Many of us have had the same noise for years.

Yeah I thought it might of been that as well. My other lgt has that. I thought about it after I posted. :-)

I believe he's talking about the noise from the pedal assembly or the pivot point, not the TOB. Many of us have had the same noise for years.

 

Yea, the noise was definitely from inside the car whenever I actuated the pedal. The noise was still there after i replaced my clutch/flywheel so i knew it wasn't an issue up front, but rather with the clutch assembly. All good now!

Well, it turns out I have this exact same issue now. Weird thing is, my mechanic buddy and I just put in a new Centric CMC and CSC on Sat. Warmed up, the car feels perfect - better than it ever has before. Sitting overnight, can't get it into any gear whatsoever, unless it idles for ~5min. Then, it can be coerced into gear to pull out of the garage, and once it starts driving, all is fine. I've never had this issue before, until the new parts were just put in. After some more digging last night, we found that the white cup thing that the ball of the shifter sits in is allowing excessive shifter play. My friend is going to pick up a new one from the dealer after he is done at work today (if they have one, hopefully), but while speaking to the mechanic there on the phone, they said that they also stock a "U bushing" that commonly goes bad on the rear of the shifter on LGTs, and it won't allow them to go in gear. We're not sure what he is talking about, be he will show my friend a pic it when he goes to get the cup thing. I have all Kartboy shifter bushings, including the rear stay, which I hope he is not referring to. I have 20~25k miles on my Motul Gear 300 oil and the system was properly bled with ATE 200. I will post up if these bushings cure anything tonight, but I welcome any input that people might have

PM'ed you some good info.

 

Also try this.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/subaru-oem-parts-catalog-online-exploded-views-opposed-forces-130411.html

Thanks for the links and vacation pics, Max! Hawaii sure looks nice this time of year

 

 

As for the cup I was referring to, #19:

http://opposedforces.com/parts/legacy/us_b13/type_7/manipulation/manual_gear_shift_system/

 

It's something like $5, so I'll just swap it out, can't hurt.

 

Turns out the "U bushing" the guy was talking about was the #6 linkage, on the above link. I had the aftermarket pivot bushings installed by a local performance automotive shop, who shall remain nameless, that put the Motul in my car earlier this year. Turns out both bolts in the #6 linkage were about to fall out, which obviously would cause my car not to get into gear. Car now works like a dream, and shifts are super crisp with a very firm feel. A big +1 to Centric clutch master and slave cylinder, if anyone is considering them in the future

*Thread revival*

 

I just jumped the gun on a new CMC and it will arrive tomorrow. Over the past few weeks, I've been pushing this repair back. Now I'm agitated.

 

The car is hard to get into gears. At WOT, 5th is nearly impossible to get into. In addition, when I start the car, I hear an "air-like" noise coming from the driver's side in the vicinity of the CMC. I adjusted the pedal and it made shifting PERFECT, but the issue came back the next day. This leads me to believe the CMC is leaking hydraulic pressure, if that makes sense. Visually, the slave cylinder operates properly, and the fork seems to be aligned correctly.

 

Does this sound like a potential culprit?

 

I also have (properly installed);

Cobb Shift Linkage Bushings

Cobb Rear Stay

Cobb Short Throw

 

So needless to say, my life sucks right now. -__-