5EAT w/IPT VB and EVO16g turbo - Tranny slipping

Well, after a year of debating to go stage3 with the 5EAT I took the plunge. Had a Walbro, 650cc's and a VF-52 ready to install at one time and changed my mind. Then with the release of the new BNR hybrid turbos the bug bit again.

 

I ordered up a EVO16g turbo, installed my RacerX FMIC and prepared for stage3 goodness. I figured the tranny should be good as long as I kept it under 300whp. I had an IPT VB installed at 10k miles (first 2008 ever installed by IPT at IPT). I also have a Rallitek tranny mount insert and Whiteline rear diff bushing inserts.. Prior to the turbo swap I changed the tranny fluid, tranny fluid filter, and front and rear gear oil.

 

On the first pull running more than 18psi the tranny slipped horribly at 4k rpm. We tried everything with the tune, but the tranny slips no matter what in 3rd gear at peak boost (4k) above 18 psi. We were going to hit peak boost lower, but with the tranny already slipping we backed off. Now the tune is half done because I want to verify the tranny before deciding to back off or go for broke.

 

I have heard all the horror stories about the "glass" 5EAT. I contacted several members running stage3 set ups on their 5EAT's before going forward. I did wait over a year to finally do it.

 

If anyone has any ideas on how to further increase the holding power of the tranny (without an IPT rebuild) please let me know. I am going to call IPT and see if there are any adjustments they can do to my already modified VB. I honestly did not expect the tranny to slip already. It is slipping BAD at WOT in 3rd gear at 4k.

 

Any ideas, suggestions, flames?

 

Thanks.

 

-Mike

So it's not holding the gear? how far does it slip? Do you bounce off the rev limiter?

Oh nooo... I was looking at getting the BNR 16g in the long run for my 5EAT GT. I am about to go stage 2 with the Crucial shorty downpipe... I hope I don't see any slipping with that.

 

I know that utc_pyro is trying to hack into the TCU programming to see if we can bump up the line pressure. There was also talk of somebody trying the 350Z shift kit, but I think that fell through. I personally think the the 350Z shift kit may be the cheapest option to add more clamping power. If I had somewhere to work on my car for a while (garage), I would be trying to put in the 350Z kit along with the 16g. I would take my time, record everything I was doing and make sure that I would be able to reverse the modification if any issues arose. If I had to drill holes in the VB, then I wouldn't even start.

 

The only problem is, once you start slipping, your clutch packs are pretty much done. The more you push it to that limit of slip, the clutches are getting hazed over and have much less friction to work with. It may be time for some type of rebuild if you want to hold all of that power (I know you don't want to hear that). There was another member on here that had his tranny built at transmission shop other than IPT and they actually got rid of his IPT VB, they felt like their mods were much better and held more power... May be something to search for.

What KyLegacy 2.5GT said about clutch packs. If clutch packs are down to bare metals, VB isn't going to help. Visited IPT few months back, John has new style clutch packs and they will handle more than 400lb of tq.

What KyLegacy 2.5GT said about clutch packs. If clutch packs are down to bare metals, VB isn't going to help. Visited IPT few months back, John has new style clutch packs and they will handle more than 400lb of tq.

listen to this man. he knows what he's talking about.

 

and agreed, once they start slipping, adding more power to it will worsen it. remember, VB mod only gets you so far, it's not a cure all nor does it prevent total detonation.

I know that utc_pyro is trying to hack into the TCU programming to see if we can bump up the line pressure.

 

I was actually thinking about this today (6 hour road trip to south of Atlanta and back to pick up a dog ), and I think I have a "rough" piggyback solution to just bump up the pressure. It wont be smooth, but it would help people with big turbos and be user adjustable. I just don't know if it will trip a CEL yet as it would add a fixed "offest" to the line pressure. I'll post in the TCU thread when I get the schematics roughed out.

 

That said, I don't think it will help in this case. I'll never be able to come up with an electrical fix to an existing mechanical problem. The best that we can hope for on that is to get a "shift kit" without the cost.

I have read and contributed to all the above mentioned threads. I (at the time) was the largest single monetary contributor to the TCU hack even.

 

I have had an IPT VB since 10k miles in the car. It is now at 30k. I installed the IPT VB BEFORE going stage2. I waited a year to go stage3.

 

The clutches slip so much in a 3rd gear pull that there are 9, count them 9 data blocks between 3650 and 4000rpm. You see the rise and fall and rise again in RPM in the logs. You see the slip. No it does not lose it all the way and go to the rev limiter, just slips and then grabs. But you can feel that any "snap" it ever had at shift is gone. It happened on the first friggin pull.

 

I know the tranny is shot. Thats why I am so pissed. It is a time bomb now and I was not even using all my turbo or injectors. The first time the wife feels the slip my arse is sleeping on the couch.

 

I did everything I could to insure the tranny would hold 300whp. We only maybe hit 265-275whp and the tranny went to crap. ****! Jim1969 told me to be weary. I should have listened better. With all I have invested in the SpecB right now there is NO way I can afford a tranny. I bit off more than I can chew. I am going to pay dearly for playing this time. Funny thing... it wont be the last time.

I am sorry to hear this m psrank since you have a lot invested into you car. Can you please post said sheet onto this thread for us 5eat er's? I would like to see in a log what slippage looks like.

O NO! I was planning on getting the 16g, AVO TMIC and a DP on my 5 speed. It has almost 93k on it. I am guessing this might not be a good idea anymore???

I have read and contributed to all the above mentioned threads. I (at the time) was the largest single monetary contributor to the TCU hack even.

 

I have had an IPT VB since 10k miles in the car. It is now at 30k. I installed the IPT VB BEFORE going stage2. I waited a year to go stage3.

 

The clutches slip so much in a 3rd gear pull that there are 9, count them 9 data blocks between 3650 and 4000rpm. You see the rise and fall and rise again in RPM in the logs. You see the slip. No it does not lose it all the way and go to the rev limiter, just slips and then grabs. But you can feel that any "snap" it ever had at shift is gone. It happened on the first friggin pull.

 

I know the tranny is shot. Thats why I am so pissed. It is a time bomb now and I was not even using all my turbo or injectors. The first time the wife feels the slip my arse is sleeping on the couch.

 

I did everything I could to insure the tranny would hold 300whp. We only maybe hit 265-275whp and the tranny went to crap. ****! Jim1969 told me to be weary. I should have listened better. With all I have invested in the SpecB right now there is NO way I can afford a tranny. I bit off more than I can chew. I am going to pay dearly for playing this time. Funny thing... it wont be the last time.

 

Sorry to hear about what's going on. That's why I'm bone stock now. I really believe that the 5EAT needs a full IPT tranny if you're going past stage 1. I was stage II for a long time with no racing or launching. I changed the tranny fluid every 15K miles. I had a tranny cooler. I had a Rallitek comfort tranny mount. Only drove the car about 30 miles a day to and from work. Tranny went about 3 months after the vf52 install and 3 days after the fuel pump and injector went in. My 5th gear was gone. I think the stage II did the damage and this would've happened even without the bigger turbo. This is why you need the emergency car fund that the wife doesn't know about.

All I can say is you were right Jim. I too have had the IPT VB, Rallitek comfort bushing, 4454 transcooler and Whiteline rear diff bushing inserts since 10k. All before going stage2. Fluid changed every 15k. Car really babied. Most the miles are freeway commuting and a road trip from NY to CA.

 

Calling IPT Monday morning to find out how much money I need to come up with to save the car. Tranny is drivable, just dont punch it.

 

Slip is easy to see in logs even if it does not slip to redline. RPM will rise, then fall, then rise again with WOT. Mine first pull looks like 3650, 3695, 3710, 3720, 3660, 3685, 3725, 3850, 4000. Not pretty.

I was actually thinking about this today (6 hour road trip to south of Atlanta and back to pick up a dog ), and I think I have a "rough" piggyback solution to just bump up the pressure. It wont be smooth, but it would help people with big turbos and be user adjustable. I just don't know if it will trip a CEL yet as it would add a fixed "offest" to the line pressure. I'll post in the TCU thread when I get the schematics roughed out.

 

I am totally up for this!.... I wouldn't be able to afford to rebuild my transmission anytime soon.

 

After reading Jims post, I may wait a little while before going stage 2 even though I already have the downpipe.

Calling IPT Monday morning to find out how much money I need to come up with to save the car. Tranny is drivable, just dont punch it.

 

Please keep us updated, I would really like to know if they have any more modifications they can do you help the 5EAT without a total rebuild.

 

Good luck to ya buddy.

I will certainly let everyone know. Thanks to everyone. It sucks and I am sure I dont have the money, but where there is a will there is a way. I am stubborn as a mule and I will most likely rebuild the tranny and go for it with a vengeance.

 

You want to see slip in a log? Well this log has way more bragging right for slip, so I will use this one for refernce. Check blocks 19-22. Good times when the rpm goes backwards. At least in this log the car in question had an excuse for the slight slip. Check the boost, lol.

m sprank e85.csv

The first time the wife feels the slip my arse is sleeping on the couch.

I feel for you, I really do.

Personally, if you want to cut your losses versus going for broke, find a used tranny on car-part for cheap, swap it in and stick to Stage 2. At least you'll already have the VB. Or if you have a local shop that can do a tear-down for cheap, then why not get the rebuild kit from IPT which has all the bands and clutchpacks they would use in their tranny to begin with.

Oh, and the log above, you can select the engine speed column and insert a line graph and yeah ... you can definitely see the slip, it looks like a bump in an otherwise straight line.

Yup. The tranny slips. Been talking with TY at IPT already. Trying to figure out the logistics and funding.

 

Still making payments on the car. F-it. Going for broke.

 

At least the car can limp along for a while. Gives me time to figure things out. Wife wont damage it anymore than it is already.

Bummer to read this. I was debating a VF52 or BNR turbo for my 5eat car. Gotta pay to play, but am not willing to pay THAT much. Do keep us updated.

In all honesty I am not sure myself how I would approach this problem if/when I am faced with it. There are many choices. Go for broke full IPT or buy a tranny to have a spare and swap shit out of: valve body and clutchpacks. I think that should be enough, we really don't hear about torque converters going out all that often. A tranny off car-part is anywhere between 800 and 2 grand or so, then the cost of a rebuild kit from IPT is around 800 bucks, you already have the modded VB (make sure the tranny is an 08-09), add to that the labor. All in all I think labor at the very least is somewhere around 2 grand so maybe you ARE better off just letting IPT do their thing. I live in Nebraska but if I could, I would still limp my ass over to their shop to have it done and tested on the car.

^^^^^

 

I agree with you on having the transmission work/install/test performed at IPT's shop. I still need to break down and have the VB modification performed on the vehicle.

 

Looks like it's Stage 2 power levels for me.

With IPT offering free return shipping and to deduct the full cost of the VB mod from the rebuild. I think IPT is still my best choice.

I have a spare 5EAT trans for sale if you're interested. Comes with torque converter.

 

PM me if interested...shipping won't be bad since we're not THAT far from each other.