SPEC Stage 2 Clutch Pack and LWFW Review

I posted this in the reviews section, but couldn't post pictures so here is another copy.

 

Spec Clutch Review

 

Car: 2005 Subaru Legacy GT 5MT

Power Modifications: GTSpec Header/UP, Perrin TMIC, Autospeed Catted DP, SPT CBE, AEM CAI Running a TDC Stage 2.5/93 e-tuned map

 

Spec Stage 2 Clutch Kit ~ Part #SUS252 $575 From JSCSPEED.COM

Spec Lightweight Flywheel ~ Part#SU25A $359 From JSCSPEED.COM

Clutch and Flywheel were installed by veteran Subaru mechanic at Dealership. $535

Total Parts and Labor ~ $1469

 

I've waited for several thousand miles and a few months before posting this to make sure the clutch was properly broken in. There were a few minor adjustments needed during the break-in period, but nothing to complain about.

 

Break-In Experiences:

 

0-10 Miles ~ Clutch pedal travel was off so I had to adjust clutch pedal travel. Fixed issue.

 

10-100 Miles ~ Clutch was real grabby with lots of chatter and made some TOB noise with clutch out. I had to install a 9lb. clutch fork return spring (like on STI's)to pull fork back off the TOB when clutch was out. Fixed issue. (Picture Below)

 

100-500 miles ~ I took it real easy during this time. I had to rev to 1700-2000RPMs for smooth quiet take-off. I couldn’t feather the clutch very well yet. It worked best to just let the clutch out at higher R’s and just go. There was still quite a bit of chatter when pulling away or creeping slowly in traffic.

 

500-1000 miles ~ I got a little more aggressive and floored it a few times. Everything held great with no slippage. Now clutch doesn’t slip, but tires will spin a little at about 4500RPM’s in first. Found the sweet spot where the clutch engages; it’s just before half way. I could now at least do a “clutch stand” on a hill at 1000RPMs with no noise.

 

1000-2000 miles ~ The clutch finally started to feel like the stock one again and has quieted down a lot. It only clicks or chatters a little when it’s cold (below 32F) until everything warms up. Clutch engagement is smooth as the stock one was, but this one has far more grip, especially at high R’s and on shifts. I can now roll off the line from ~1200RPMs with very little chatter or driveline vibe.

 

2000-25000 mile ~ Clutch broke in fine and is still holding. Going on two year and over 25K miles of regular driving with it's fair share of abuse. Even holds perfectly with a DB 20G Zilla Turbo putting down power in excess of 350WHP/350WTQ. It will definately last longer than the stock clutch at any level.

 

 

All in all I’m very happy with this setup. It has held up to my expectations so far. I will say that at first; I was a little concerned with the noise and the way it grabbed off the line and on down shifts. It was real jerky and you had to rev match perfectly; which was hard at first with the flywheel, it makes the gas pedal real touchy and the RPMs just kind of hang up high for a split second longer on shifts. I found that if you just don’t completely let off the gas when shifting up or down it will engage a lot smoother.

The Lightweight Flywheel makes for a little gear noise on vibration at times. Since it doesn’t have a Dual Mass design it won’t dampen as much noise or vibration, so you should expect to hear more chatter on take off and some rolling gear noise when you let off the gas and coast or use the transmission to slow down. I usually only hear it in 3rd and 4th gear above 2K RPMs. It all sounds and feels pretty rough in the beginning, but it hasn’t slipped or spun on my yet so I guess we’ll see how long it lasts.

 

**THIS THREAD IS FOR THE REVIEW AND DISCUSSION OF THE SPEC STAGE 2 CLUTCH AND LWFW. I WANT TO KEEP IT CLEAN; SO IF YOU WANT TO DISCUSS OTHER BRANDS OR STAGES OF CLUTCHES, PLEASE START YOUR OWN THREAD!!!!!!!

 

***Pictures are 800x600-ish but files are large...

Edited August 18, 2009 by qikslvr

I'e never saw the spring before under my hood for the clutch fork,....Has anyone else do the same? Anyone else with experiences as I got to buy something in the next few days and I need something strong enough (clutch, Light FW) that will stand Stage II + and still be driveable.

 

Im liking that I will be able to rev more quickly, but seems the chatter even during coasting and as explained above may cause reliability concerns... Anyone with longer term stories (ie >10k miles) to share...Im looking at getting a SPEC Stage II+ and SPEC Light FW....Would the lighter WRX 06 FW and ACT clutch be a better buy,..How about the specials at Gruppe-S right now as local members are buying their packages ,..

 

http://www.gruppe-s.com/Subaru/subtrn.htm

The spring was added by ME. It is not an OE part. Myself and a couple other people had an issue with the TOB rubbing the clutch fork when the clutch was released. You could put your hand under the TMIC and just lightly push the top of the fork and the noise would stop. Again. I made the bracket and purchased the 9LB spring from Home Depot. The STI comes with a clutch fork return spring from the factory for this reason.

As for the gear noise; it's not damage or a reliability problem. This noise is simply noise that has always been there, but was absorbed by the OE Dual Mass Flywheel. It's called "gear mesh noise" and it's just part of the deal when you use a LWFW. There is a lot less metal weight/density to absorb the noise so it becomes audible in the cabin. It gets real loud with a "STI group N hardened tranny mount" installed. I switch between the OE mount and the STI mount during the warmer months. I intall the STI mount when I plan to go to the track and put the OE mount back in for road trips and such.

There are trade-off that you must take into consideration when going from stock to aftermarket clutches. Noise Vibration and Harshness are among them. From what I have heard; the Stage 2+ and Stage 3 kits have even more NVH than the Stage2 setup.

 

 

**THIS THREAD IS FOR THE REVIEW AND DISCUSSION OF THE SPEC STAGE 2 CLUTCH AND LWFW. I WANT TO KEEP IT CLEAN; SO IF YOU WANT TO DISCUSS OTHER BRANDS OR STAGES OF CLUTCHES, PLEASE START YOUR OWN THREAD!!!!!!!

Thanks for your infor qikslvr. Your experiences is worth its weight in gold and Im shopping for a clutch now,..

 

Are there any issues with the fork and TOB rubbing other than noise if this occurs with oem as you described above? Also, if I go SPEC, should I order oem TOB as I know ACT ones were considered not as reliable/good as oem as well as get a new fork if Im installing new clutch components.

 

Also, has anyone else suffered from manufacturer defects as described above or was it a 1 time issue. Would like to be worry free as I will pay a shop to do the install and try to get everything done right the 1st time around.

I have heard of at least 4 other people that have had the TOB squeal issue with the SPEC clutch packs. It's nothing major and won't damage anything. It may even work it's self out during the normal break-in period if you let it. It's just a matter of the clutch fork travel being off by a hairs width and could be quieted completely with the force applied by a pinky on the clutch fork. Again, this is standard and expected on STI's as they have a heavier clutch with a return spring on the fork from the factory.

It cost about $7 in parts and took me about 20 minutes to make the bracket and install the spring and I haven't had to touch it since. I really wouldn't call it a "defect", but more of a necessary adjustment when changing to an aftermarket performance clutch. As for the TOB; I would still recommmend/use the one that comes in the kit. Also, I don't see any reason to change forks and risk having to take the tranny back out if it doesn't work correctly at least my method is adjustable, quick and easy. At most I might try to drill a hole in the original clutch fork while it's out.

 

I will post pictures of the bracket and get better pictures of the install points when possible.

How much does the flywheel weigh?

I will post pictures of the bracket and get better pictures of the install points when possible.

 

That would be greatly appreciated. I have the same problem and have suspected that the fork just wasn't traveling enough and haven't spent time investigating a solution, but it looks like you have done all the work for me.

 

More pics would really help me out..

 

Thanks again.

I would like to see pics of your bracket and spring fix.

Maybe even a How-to thread.

 

Thanks for the write up though.

How much does the flywheel weigh?

It's 13.8lb IIRC

For those who need it now…

 

How to make a clutch fork return spring:

 

This is a fix for a TOB are noise caused by the clutch fork vibrating on, skipping off of or rubbing the TOB. This fix will work if when you release the clutch in neutral; the TOB whines or makes noise and you can stop the noise by reaching under the TMIC and applying a small amount of pressure to the back of the clutch fork thus stopping the noise. This method will use a spring to apply just enough tension on the clutch fork to keep it off the TOB when the clutch is out.

 

This is the quick and dirty method. You may want to read the whole thing and measure before you start. You may also want to drill a hole in the clutch fork (good luck). The measurements are off the top of my head. I haven’t seen my bracket for 3 months or more so go long and trim down.

 

Tools needed: Cut-off wheel or saw and a drill with 12mm? drill bit.

Materials needed: 6” length of 1” wide metal strap (I used aluminum) and a 3”-4”ish 9lb test spring. The one in the picture is one I didn’t use, but it’s about the same size.

 

I tried 3lb and 5lb springs that I found at the hardware store before settling on the 9 pounder. I ended up using a spring from the fastener isle in Home Depot. They are like the little springs that go on a screen/outer door closer’s chain in plastic bags with a black and yellow card stapled to the top with the test/length info on the back. They had a whole rack of them in different lengths and test/strength ratings. I looked at the springs at the auto parts store, but they were all too long and didn’t have tension ratings for individual springs

 

Make the bracket:

• Bend to a 90 degree angle about 1.5”-2” from one end. (bracket2.jpg)
  
• Mark the center of the short side and drill.
  
• Cut off the longer side at about 4” (go a little long to start). (bracket3.jpg)
  
• Drill a small hole about 1/8”-1/4” in from the top edge near the center so the ring on the spring can pass through and hook on.

Now for the under the hood part to be done with the intercooler removed:

 

Look at picture “clutchspring2.jpg”. The blue circle is where an existing bolt holding a bracket on is located. It’s a 10mm or 12mm bolt. You can remove it, place the short side of the bracket down and replace the bolt.

 

Hook the spring to the small hole in the vertical side of the bracket and pull the spring over to the clutch fork (red circle in last picture). There is a lip on the passenger side of the clutch fork where the spring will effectively clip onto just below the corner of the clutch fork. The spring should just clip on and the tension will hold the spring in place. You may need to loosen the bolt and twist the bracket left to right to get the spring to line up.

 

What you are looking for here is to see that the spring is straight and doesn’t touch the dog bone bolt or the rubber slave cylinder piston cover. You also want to make sure the spring is twisted and hooked correctly so the ring on the clutch fork end is vertical with the open end of the hook facing downward you way need to slightly open up the hook/ring at this end of the spring (Black circle in spring.jpg). This will ensure that the end of the spring’s hook will dig into the finish of the clutch fork when the spring stretches. Look to see if the top of your bracket is level with or lower than the tan plug.

 

When I first installed mine it was fine and cleared the OE TMIC, but I had to shorten it when I put my Perrin TMIC on as it was hitting the bottom of the TMIC. If needed cut the height down a bit and drill a new hole and re install.

After you get the bracket fitted you will need to check the clutch pedal. If the spring is too tight it will make the pedal soft or make it fall to the floor. If this happens, just bend the bracket towards the clutch fork a little to relieve some tension. The spring should be tight, but not stretched much if at all. If the clutch pedal feels “normal, then you can re-install the TMIC.

 

Start the car and see if the noise has stopped. If it is still making noise; you can reach under the TMIC from the passenger side and bend the bracket slowly until the noise stops (you may need a small screwdriver to help push on the bracket. It’s a delicate balance between good clutch pedal and no noise.

 

It probably took longer to read this than it will to make and install the bracket and spring, but I spent several hours messing with this and taking my TMIC off a dozen times to get it right. The soft clutch pedal threw me for a second until I realized the fluid was slowly rising in the master cylinder as the spring pulled the fork back too far. If after you apply this fix you have issues with the clutch pedal pushing too far or making it hard to shift when the pedal is all the way to the floor; you may need to adjust your clutch pedal travel which is a whole other walkthrough.

 

I will clean this up get the measurements right and post it in the walkthrough section.

lol yep I need to loosen up the spring a little but it worked great for me too thanks very much for the idea, I have the ACT set up but it worked non the less and was much less work than pulling the tranny off again like I thought I was going to have to. Thank you very much.

Earthworm stopped by last night in his way to the west coast and we fixed his too. It seems like the ACT setup needs far less tension than the SEPC setup to correct the issue. We ended up using a 5Lb spring and bending the bracket a little to get his to quiet down.

Earthworm stopped by last night in his way to the west coast and we fixed his too. It seems like the ACT setup needs far less tension than the SEPC setup to correct the issue. We ended up using a 5Lb spring and bending the bracket a little to get his to quiet down.

That's good to hear. As soon as I read your post, I PM'd him about your spring solution. I had just heard it in person the other night and he was pretty bummed about it. How random that he had a planned stop in your town on his way out west.

I wasn't sure if he would get a hold of me since I PM'd him late Thursday night with my contact info and he left at 5am. It actually worked out well as he had to do a little running around while he was here; so he just came over to my house and we thew it on. We got it installed and I had a camerea sitting right there but forgot to take pictures while his IC was off:rolleyes:.

 

Earthworm: Thanks for the eats and drinks! It was nice to get out of the house for a bit without the wife and kids.

Your welcome! Thanks very much for all your help and for the company at Upstream. Much better then going by myself!

 

I drove to Ft. Collins yesterday and went out all night so didn't get a chance to get back online until now (just drove from Ft. Collins to Salt Lake City - ice highway from HELL and major blizzard, thank heaven I made it without ending up in a ditch like so many others I saw).

 

No squeal! It appears to be gone! I'll keep an ear out for it and if it comes back I'll adjust it or try a different spring. Great trick.

 

Thanks again!

thanks for the pics and details on the clutch fork spring.

Nicely covered.

 

Again proving this is one of the more 'user' friendly car forums available.

More help, less BS.

Tks for the write up!

 

Did you use the the TOB and Pilot bearings supplied by Spec or did you buy the Subaru bearings?

I used the TOB that came in the clutch kit from SPEC. The flywheel already had a pilot bearing installed when it arrived and there was a 2nd pilot bearing included with the clutch kit.

So I now got 160miles on my car,...its leaking a little bit of tranny fluid due to needing a new crush washer for the drain plu,...Not knowing the bolt/thread size to buy from hardware shop, I ordered a new bolt and washer from Subaru so I can quickly swap plugs out to avoid loosing too much Redline synthetic.

 

Now, I dont know if this is a problem,...

 

But I;m really noticing in the last 50 miles that 80% of the time starting from a dead stop (from stoplight, traffic, etc) that my car shakes violently and it feels from the right front, but it shakes the whole car and even the shifter. I try to rev it high enough or let the clutch out fast enough to get a smooth takeoff, but the shake is pretty bad. I dont know if it's maybe the AVO CAI vibrating (Not bolted down due to FMIC piping), the WBR FMIC piping, or thinking my passanger CV axle not being locked into the tranny properly, or if this is how bad the car will be till the clutch is broken in yet...Anyone can enlighten me? When I first picked up the car for the 1st 100 miles it wasnt like this, and has been now for the last 7 days...

 

Is this just the "breaking in of the clutch" symptoms?

 

Update,............

Took it to the speed shop for them to test drive and he said that is how grippy kevlar clutch is,...its grabs to the flywheel and suggest that I change my clutch driving style. After that, I was better reassured and just had to release the clutch pedal quicker without as much revs and takeoffs are smoother. I still have to bolt down my AVO CAI bracket as its vibrating still since I had to undo it due to the WBR FMIC Piping being in the way,..

It took almost 2000 miles for my clutch to smooth out and feel like the OE clutch. At first it was real grabby. It just takes awhile to "master" the new setup and get the feel of it. Definately gets better with time.

Yup, welcome to the wonderful world of clutch chatter:)

 

aba - which stage clutch did you get?

Got the Stage II+ and Spec LWFW too,..

Got the Stage II+ and Spec LWFW too,..

 

 

What turbo are you running and how much hp/tq are you putting down?

I believe this is a SPEC Clutch And Lightweight Flywheel Review Thread. Please take any discussion about Turbos and any other Mods to another appropriate thread. Sorry, not trying to be a jerk, but I'm trying to keep this thread clean so others can easily find usefull information in it.

Well the question I asked is 100% SPEC clutch related. Trying to figure out what stage will hold what amount of power. Why would that not be useful info for others?