2010 LGT needs short block. I need advice

At 95,000 miles, my LGT is showing metal in the oil. It has always burned oil and I had it in to the dealer to check it out...now they say I need a short block.

 

I can get a new on installed from Subaru for around $5,000. However, the mechanic says some manufacturing problems with over-tight tollerances that caused this one to fail will still be there. The mechanic suggests I'd be better off letting him rebuild my block with a higher quality camshaft and rings, where he will hand check all the fittings. It would cost $1500 more.

 

What should I do? I called company, IAG, sells custom short blocks, but they say they don't work on 2010's because they are too different, so that makes me leery of having it rebuilt?

 

Please help, especially if you have experience with 2010-11 turbos.

Edited April 20, 2017 by M3Man

If you get the factory short block installed by the dealer I believe it carries a 3yr 36k mile warranty. That's worth having! Check into it and see if your independent mechanic is offering a warranty.

 

FYI there is no upgrade crank subaru uses the same crank in all turbo ej25s. I have heard of heat treating or cryogenic treating them. The weak points on these engines are the rods and pistons though not the crank.

 

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hit up islandborn M3Man. I believe he is at least having part of this new block worked on by IAG.

I was always under the impression that we could use short blocks from other 2.5's. So we can't just buy a prebuilt short block from IAG and slap it on? It would have to be modified?

I was always under the impression that we could use short blocks from other 2.5's. So we can't just buy a prebuilt short block from IAG and slap it on? It would have to be modified?

There are a few small differences. The oil pan for one, front engine mount, water pump...I'm not 100% how much modding needs to be done for it to bolt in. But IMO the cost of a short block isn't that much from subaru, especially if yours is trashed.

 

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Whelp there went that thought.

 

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There are a few small differences. The oil pan for one, front engine mount, water pump...I'm not 100% how much modding needs to be done for it to bolt in. But IMO the cost of a short block isn't that much from subaru, especially if yours is trashed.

 

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The 2010~ has one less bolt hole for the oil pan. If you use an earlier block you just don't use that hole, goop over it when you put the pan on.

 

The boss the front engine mount bolts to has always been there, so the '10~ front engine mount will in fact bolt to an earlier block.

 

I wasn't aware the water pump was different but in any case you can just use a factory water pump.

 

A new factory shortblock is often a really good solution for the guys who aren't doing big power or don't intend to, and the price is quite reasonable really. The comments about clearances have some truth to them however. Subaru have taken to using smaller and smaller clearances for the bottom-end bearings over the years amid the trend toward lighter and lighter oils. The piston to wall clearances are okay but the ring gaps get progressively tighter to control blow-by and thus emissions. If you aren't going to have the stealership replace the shortblock then I'd recommend having your shop pull the pistons and open the ring gaps up a little, using the earlier EJ257 specs as a guide. If you were going for a bigger power target down the line you could go a bit further have them open the block up and achieve a larger main and rod bearing clearance by critical selection of bearing shells, though this will add quite a bit of cost to the process.

I was thinking it would be worthwhile to buy the correct shortblock, and have the stronger pistons and more forgiving ring gaps installed by the shop of your choosing.

 

Of course having a slightly bored and built block with a little extra goop, is a great option too!

 

IMO it would come down to the price vs the future plans. If your going to do a built block for big power, you should also be looking to a trans swap.

 

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Thanks for the advice, everybody.

 

Fahr-side sums up my conundrum. I am not looking for huge power. I have a moderate stage II tune, but the only power mods I have are an Invidia turbo-back exhaust and a K&N filter, yet at 95,000 miles, my bearings appear to be failing. The factory short block is cheaper, but won't I just be buying the same problem all over again?

 

The mechanic I'm dealing with is a guy named Casey, who just moved to Santa Fe from Memphis, where he says he rebuilt a bunch of WRX motors. If anyone knows his reputation, I'd love to hear about him. He suggests that by using slightly larger clearances, and King or ACL bearings and 10w-40 oil, I'd have improved durability. That seems to be what Fahr_Side is saying.

 

Again, any opinion from anyone with experience in this area is much appreciated. I'm an old retired guy and I need this baby to last as long as possible. I've never needed any internal work done on an engine and know very little about it.

Who tuned your car? That may have more of an impact than the clearances. The 40w oil will help of course. I think if it were me I would rebuild what I had with better pistons and rods.

 

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Hmmm. The tuning thought raises another possible issue. I live at 7000 ft altitude in Northern New Mexico. The car was tuned at CamTuning in Albuquerque which is at 5000 ft. But I just did a 1400 mile trip down to Tulsa, which is more like 500 ft. We didn't push the car, but did run a steady 75 to 85 mph, and I know it makes more power at lower altitudes...It did trigger a CEL...the OBDII says it was a bad O2 sensor. It was when I had it in for that that they noticed metal in the oil. Think that might be connected? It was a mild tune...only around 16 psi.

Did you log or set up some gauges to keep an eye on knock or AFR?

 

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There's nothing wrong with the stock EJ25x rods when you're keeping revs to 6k7rpm, and don't try to hit high boost below 3k0rpm or so.

 

I've said many times trying to build a 350whp Subaru is dumb. You're not likely to have good reliability on the stock block and building for 450whp isn't really more expensive.

It did trigger a CEL...the OBDII says it was a bad O2 sensor. It was when I had it in for that that they noticed metal in the oil. Think that might be connected? It was a mild tune...only around 16 psi.

 

I would hope the tune should be fine for the difference in elevation especially for just normal highway driving. It is the full throttle high boost knock, where most of the damage is caused from detonation.

 

One of the ways tuners gain hp is by leaning the fuel mixture so AFR is closer to ideal efficiency. Manufacturer usually run a rich air fuel mixture to give them engine a safety factor for the case of the failing or out of calibration O2 sensor. Ideally someone with a tuned car should be monitoring for this reason.

Cobb took mine and rebuilt my Original one - bored it to 100mm and thru in some CP pistons. Added some King bearings and some ARP bolts then slapped everything else from my old engine on - now.... that rebuilt engine lasted me another 100k miles.... and I didn't play nice with it either.

 

IAG is boring and honing new heads for me - which is a basic 2.5 build regardless of the car. Them main assemble will be done inhouse by AWDTuning.

Edited May 5, 2017 by islandborn

M3man....how was the metal in the oil discovered? Is it glitter in the oil or did you have a UOA done? Living at your altitude, presumably going up and down a lot of steep hills, your historical oil consumption could be related to the use of engine braking or type of oil. What oil have you been running? Mobil 1 for instance gets easily ingested by Subaru turbo motors.

 

How do you know it's not only a failing turbo bearing? Has anyone pulled the downpipe or intake pipe and checked the shaft play?

Edited April 21, 2017 by GTEASER

The metal was discovered by looking at the dipstick. I had it in the shop complaining about oil consumption. Its always used a quart per 1000 miles, but my last trip was even worse, even though it was mostly flat land highway cruising on the interstate. I will send some oil to Blackstone as soon as the test kit arrives. So I don't know if its not just a turbo bearing. Great question. I will have it checked. Will the analysis tell me where the metal came from? I use Castrol 5w-30 full synthetic.

 

Gteaser, I'm very interested in your thoughts on Subaru stock short block vs having my engine rebuilt with better parts.

It could very easily be the turbo seal and bearing. Typically bearing material is copper. My UOA from when my FXT turbo failed had high copper and iron, the iron presumably from the turbo shaft or bearing housing. But copper can mean main bearings as well I believe. A UOA, along with other investigation, will help you narrow down the issue. Also have your PCV valve checked to be sure it's functioning properly, a stuck PCV will cause the motor to eat oil.

 

Check the charge pipe, throttle body hose and intercooler for puddling oil, also drop the downpipe and/or the intake side of the turbo and check the shaft play.

 

If you are at a conservative Stage2 tune (presumably you have an aftermarket downpipe) running at 16 or 17 psi, don't plan any other major performance mods, and make a habit to monitor knock while in boost, I'd say just do the stock shortblock.

 

For not much more than your local shop will charge rebuilding everything with an OEM block, I would send my motor to OutFront Automotive in LA and have them build me a forged piston, beefy bearing shortblock for about $1000 more than the OEM shortblock. And then have them do all the head work and assembly with ARP head studs.

One of the ways tuners gain hp is by leaning the fuel mixture so AFR is closer to ideal efficiency. Manufacturer usually run a rich air fuel mixture to give them engine a safety factor for the case of the failing or out of calibration O2 sensor.

 

 

 

Partly, yes. Unburnt or part-burnt hydrocarbons are used by the cats to remove oxides of nitrogen from the exhaust gas, so the cars actually emit more pollution when tuned leaner for power. The stock tunes are horribly rich.

Lots of great advice...thanks all.

 

GT, my tuner says at my altitude, knock is not an issue. But we do like to drive to San Diego most every year, so how would I monitor knock? Do I just listen for the ticking sound, or does that require an accessport?

You would need to use an AP to monitor knock. They are really nice to have, albeit expensive, you can monitor a lot of critical stuff. Especially when tuned past stage 1 and things are a bit more critical.

There are also other devices that should be able to give you the same information, as it's just reading and reporting what the ecm is seeing. The AP is just a convenient way to get the information in a user friendly display.

 

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There's someone on this forum that has developed an interface called BTSSM (I think) that is as useful as the AP.

There's someone on this forum that has developed an interface called BTSSM (I think) that is as useful as the AP.

 

 

 

Really good option if you have an Android device already.

Can we get a sticky for that btssm for the 5th gen? I would like to know enough about it to decide if it was worth while, and exactly how it works.

 

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