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-   -   Crucial LGT Sport Springs -- Pictures, ride impressions, etc... (http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82623)

Crucial Racing 02-29-2008 02:11 PM

Crucial LGT Sport Springs -- Pictures, ride impressions, etc...
 
Okay here we go! Our prototype sport springs were installed on the test LGT wagon (which is 100% stock except for those Rota's and the 225 tires) late yesterday afternoon and I've put 115 miles on them so far. First, pictures:


Before:

http://www.crucialracing.com/images/lgt_before1.JPG

http://www.crucialracing.com/images/lgt_before2.JPG


After:

http://www.crucialracing.com/images/lgt_after1.JPG

http://www.crucialracing.com/images/lgt_after2.JPG

http://www.crucialracing.com/images/lgt_after3.jpg

http://www.crucialracing.com/images/lgt_after4.JPG

http://www.crucialracing.com/images/lgt_after5.JPG


Sorry they're not so great (especially the before ones). ...was a bit of a rushed day for me and the sunlight in those first pics was just killer :lol: ...


Driving Impressions:

First, I was floored by the ride. The thing rides as nicely as stock. I'll need to have the owner test it out when he's back from Mexico (for the WRC event!!! Lucky guy) to get a better stock vs. Crucial ride impression because I honestly didn't put all that many miles on the car when it was still stock, whereas he's very used to it obviously. I tried to go over some specific spots of road, rough and otherwise, around the shop and take a few corners and keep in mind how it felt, and I'm truly just shocked at how amazingly nicely these Crucial springs ride, because they are stiffer than the stock rates by a decent margin. I'm very confident that the ride is at least as nice as stock though, and it might even be quieter on the highway.

The drop is pretty conservative. It's NOT slammed or anywhere close, but it looks a lot cleaner than stock. I went over plenty of steep speed bumps and up steep driveway/parking lot entrances that I drive over regularly around here, all of which just destroy my 350Z if I'm not going 0.5 mph at a 45 degree angle :lol:, and there was no scraping. Clears a normal curb with the front bumper. Drop is nice and even, too. No complaints. We definitely didn't want to slam the LGT too low... it makes for a pain in the butt daily driver.

Brake dive is reduced quite a bit. It says decently flat even under very hard braking. Nice improvement here vs stock.

Balance is better. I can now get the car to begin to oversteer in a corner by lifting throttle or changing steering input. It definitely doesn't want to understeer like it used to, and getting it to simply push outwards is much, much harder. It's still extremely safe though. This car is NOT going to come around on you without you wanting it. With the addition of an adjustable rear sway you could easily dial in more oversteer if desired, as it's now quite a bit more neutral than stock.

There is NO bounce. I can tell that these springs are just at that point where if they were any stiffer you'd start to get a little bounce with the stock struts. Right now they're handling the springs perfectly well at any speed over any type of bumps, but I can juuussst feel that they're at their limit of what they can properly damp. I think we're getting away with it because of how the progressive rates are done. They're not very aggressively damped struts/shocks for sure. For a daily driver that sees occasional spirited romps through the twisties, this would be a perfectly fine setup. You'd have a drop that looked clean but you don't have to worry about scraping on driveways and speed bumps, a ride that is as nice as stock, and better cornering performance. If you're thinking of hitting up auto-x or want some more performance out of them, they're perfect candidates for nice struts like the Konis, which will definitely make a difference (and are going in this car next week).

Response is improved, max grip is improved, and body roll is improved. Personally, I'd want stiffer springs on my own car but my 350Z rides like a MAC truck and my Legacy has insane coilovers on it so I'm sort of used to a car that corners FLAT :p. There's still some roll in this wagon. Less than stock, yes. With our Impreza springs, they're so stiff that before-and-after body roll with the addition of sway bars is almost the same. I think these LGT springs are at the perfect spring rate where there's just enough body roll left that you can completely get rid of it with a sway bar(s) and retain the really nice ride. Much softer and it would still roll with sways or you'd have to upset the balance with too-thick swaybars, and any stiffer with the springs and you'd surely comprimise the ride. These aren't track springs, but I think they've definitely hit our LGT spring goal right on the head, which is to say make something that's sportier but not so aggressive that it ruins the point of buying an LGT vs. an Impreza -- i.e. a little more upscale luxury yet sporty car. With sways and struts, I KNOW these springs will hold their own for auto-x and light track use, but the goal was definitely sportier springs for a daily driver, not a track car. ...which is great, because so far the interest in e-mails and PM's was for springs with a conservative drop and a nice ride, which we've done. They also most definitely kick the performance up a notch as well :)


...so that's my impression of them so far. I'm SHOCKED at how freakin' amazing the ride is. It's quiet, smooth, soaks up bumps WAY better than I could have imagined. I'm very happy with the improvement in brake dive, grip, and balance. There's still just a touch more roll if you're doing slalom-type manuevers in the car than I would like, but it's improved enough that it's right at the point where a sway bar(s) would be hugely effective at getting rid of that. Obviously in a sedan instead of this wagon I'd expect it to be flatter to begin with...

Fitment was great btw. No issues. OH!!! That reminded me that we put GroupN strut top hats on the front (he had them from his WRX that he sold). Makes the quiet, nice ride even that much more impressive to me :p

Sound promising? Anyone in the Bay Area want a ride in this car (drive if the owner is okay w/ it)? We definitely want some 3rd party impressions! It's with me until Monday night...

Jeremy

hassa 02-29-2008 02:21 PM

Nice!!! Looking forward to the reviews w/Konis!

Looking to upgrade my suspension this spring and this combo is looking good. I'm liking that they do not drop the car significantly.

Crucial Racing 02-29-2008 02:35 PM

Yeah I think the Konis will actually kill quite a bit of the roll I'm still able to get out of the car when I slalom it hard. The high speed and low speed dampening curves are just done so well on them and obviously just being stiffer will help out in this regard. Mind you, it's NOT 'rolly' and it's improved noticeably vs. stock, it's just not quite where I'd want my personal car to be yet and I know for a fact sways would do the trick and I'm relatively confident that struts will make a good difference. We'll see next week on the struts front :)



...and yeah, there are plenty of options on the market for people who want a really low Legacy. These are definitely for the group that doesn't want to comprimise driveability but still wants a sleeker look and sportier handling.

Crucial Racing 02-29-2008 04:01 PM

Ed from EQ Tuning was at the shop a few minutes ago and I took him for a ride in the LGT... apparently my expectations for complete lack of body roll were just a bit too unrealistic :lol: (he's spent a lot of time road tuning them recently). I guess it's pretty flat for an LGT wagon, and sways would definitely put it into a great handling category :p

Aczwild 02-29-2008 04:17 PM

so 10 weeks out, or can I has them s00nah?!?!?!?!?!? :D

devobuzz 02-29-2008 05:51 PM

So what are the spring rate and lowering specs?

Thanks,
Ralph

Crucial Racing 03-01-2008 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aczwild (Post 1743189)
so 10 weeks out, or can I has them s00nah?!?!?!?!?!? :D

Once we're done testing on this car and whatnot, we'll probably do a group buy sort of a pre-order thing and offer a discount for anyone who pre-orders them before they arrive here. It'll also help us figure out how many to make in the first run hopefully.

But yeah, from the time we place the order w/ our manufacturer in Germany to the time they arrive here, it's about 10-11 weeks. That's if they're shipping via boat and a good like 7+ weeks of that time is just shipping time. We CAN get any number of spring sets here much faster by having them shipped individually via Air. Obviously it adds a not insignificant amount to the cost because shipping expense for a ~24 lb box of decent size shipped Air from Germany to here isn't cheap. I'll absolutely get a quote for that though in case there's anyone who wants them a lot quicker...

Quote:

Originally Posted by devobuzz
So what are the spring rate and lowering specs?

I'm still waiting to hear back from Germany with the exact final specifications. We tweaked them a bit since the original prototype and I don't know exactly what the final, offical specs ended up being. I should know very soon though.

QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS THOUGH: Do we need to try these on a sedan also? Given the exact same springs, will they drop the wagon and the sedan differently? Are the OEM struts completely identical on the sedan and the wagon? On the Impreza, the springs were developed on the sedan knowing that the wagon and even Forester XT suspension was identical and all models would end up the exact same height off the ground after the installation of the springs (taking the weight difference in the rear into account is easy). I don't pretend to be as familiar with the LGT so I just wanted to be sure there isn't a physical difference between the sedan and wagon LGT beyond the body...

Jeremy

hassa 03-01-2008 10:50 PM

Test fitting on a sedan please!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crucial Racing (Post 1744541)
QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS THOUGH: Do we need to try these on a sedan also? Given the exact same springs, will they drop the wagon and the sedan differently? Are the OEM struts completely identical on the sedan and the wagon? On the Impreza, the springs were developed on the sedan knowing that the wagon and even Forester XT suspension was identical and all models would end up the exact same height off the ground after the installation of the springs (taking the weight difference in the rear into account is easy). I don't pretend to be as familiar with the LGT so I just wanted to be sure there isn't a physical difference between the sedan and wagon LGT beyond the body...

Jeremy

Do you really need to ask??? We're going to DEMAND you test these on a sedan before buying! :lol::lol:

Seriously though, I'm sure one of the resident experts can chime in and provide specifics but the wagon springs are slightly longer/taller than the sedan springs to account for the extra weight in the rear (40lbs IIRC) so a test fitting would definitely be appreciated. Especially given the number of threads discussing "saggy" rears and aftermarket springs.

Ratcoon 03-02-2008 01:10 AM

would love to see these tested on a sedan, doubt you remember me but i met you up in haight st to pick up ur imprezza springs awhile back. cant wait to have these on the leggy.

Powerman 03-02-2008 10:26 AM

I would still like to hear more opinions, and what they are like with Konis. Just waiting for the group buy thread.:)

Crucial Racing 03-02-2008 04:30 PM

These springs were originally designed for the sedan fitment, just FYI. We made some tweaks to the original spring and wanted to try them on a wagon this time to make sure everything was 100%. Before running them I just wanted to be completely and totally sure there isn't a difference between the two cars like spring perches in slightly different places on the struts or anything weird like that.

If the LGT wagon only has 40 extra lbs on the rear suspension vs the sedan, that's nothing. That's less than the weight of half a tank of gas. The Impreza wagon is +80 lbs pushing on the rear springs and the FXT is maybe 100+ more in the rear and we got our springs to work on all of those cars with no issues at all (namely the saggy butt that many are concerned with getting) and no sacrifice whatsoever to the sedan's performance or ride. I do feel like these are going to hit that mark also.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratcoon
would love to see these tested on a sedan, doubt you remember me but i met you up in haight st to pick up ur imprezza springs awhile back. cant wait to have these on the leggy.

Yes, I do remember actually. Would you be interested in trying out a pre-production set? I can have another set here within a week. We'll install them free of charge and I'd probably just ask for $100 to cover the quick shipping from Germany and the springs themselves are on the house. The logistics of taking the springs off the wagon to install them on a sedan and then putting them back on the wagon when the konis are ready and putting the sedan back to stock and then doing the labor for free to put production springs on the sedan once they're ready just seemed a little crazy :lol:... so a second set of test springs just makes way more sense. Let me know! I'll get them on the way Monday.

Jeremy

Ratcoon 03-02-2008 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crucial Racing (Post 1746055)

Yes, I do remember actually. Would you be interested in trying out a pre-production set? I can have another set here within a week. We'll install them free of charge and I'd probably just ask for $100 to cover the quick shipping from Germany and the springs themselves are on the house. The logistics of taking the springs off the wagon to install them on a sedan and then putting them back on the wagon when the konis are ready and putting the sedan back to stock and then doing the labor for free to put production springs on the sedan once they're ready just seemed a little crazy :lol:... so a second set of test springs just makes way more sense. Let me know! I'll get them on the way Monday.

Jeremy

yea im down to test the springs for you. lmk what sup. i'll pm you my info.

lgt-z 03-04-2008 06:56 PM

:munch:

Definitely interested - I commute around areas where a fully 'slammed' ride just won't work so I'd like a slightly (1" or less) drop with improved handling/rates. Also would like to see how the Koni's work, and with a sedan.

SBT 03-04-2008 07:16 PM

LGT struts are identical sedan to wagon, it's just that the rear springs are longer (and I believe with a bit higher spring rate), to compensate for the extra weight (~70-80 lbs - in LTD trim; ~60 lbs in standard trim) over the sedan. I presume that the Crucial springs are progressive only at the fronts?
SBT

MDork 03-04-2008 10:04 PM

looks berry nice


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