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-   -   Engine Overhaul & Build, Parts List for Critique (http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211942)

Benjamin M 08-04-2013 09:39 AM

Engine Overhaul & Build, Parts List for Critique
 
Vehicle: 2005 Subaru Outback 2.5XT Limited
Mileage: 176,XXX
Status: Being dismantled at the shop due to rough idle, oil consumption, and mysterious and random P0011/P0021 codes. (The backstory to the CEL codes can be found here: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthrea...=story+problem
Theory: Failed ringland

Listed below is my parts list that I've compiled through many hours of reading and research. My car/mechanical knowledge is quite limited, but I'm learning. I've been asking a few of the vendors and other members on here to critique my list, but I hate to bother them too much, when I know their busy with other customers, business, and personal lives.

Purpose: DD / Light Track Use
Goals: 350whp-400whp w/ Similar/Associated tq. numbers. Focusing on a broader powerband versus absolute peak at the top end.

Subaru OEM Shortblock Machined-Bared/Honed to XX.Xmm
If the block cylinders have to be bored out to a certain diameter due to damage…what is the largest diameter that would be safe and reliable, before it would just be better to purchase a new empty shortblock and have the cylinder walls honed for the new pistons?

Subaru OEM B25 Cylinder Heads Full Refresh w/ Mild Porting
Has porting the cylinder heads shown it to be a worthy investment?

Pistons: Weisco, CP, JE, other? 4032 vs. 2618
Over my head in the world of pistons a bit, any suggestions? I’ve listed the popular choices I’ve seen on the forums. Any input on 4032 vs. 2618 material for pistons?

Rods: OEM, Eagle, Manley, other?
Builder suggested Manley Rods, just interested if you have any other input?

ACL Rod and Main Bearings (Clearences dependent on cylinder boring diameter--like to keep things snug)
Subaru OEM Crankshaft (Machine OEM if needed or STi Heat Treated Crankshaft)
SuperTech 36 mm Stainless Steel Black Nitrided Intake Valves
SuperTech 32 mm Stainless Steel Black Nitrided Exhaust Valves
Super Tech Dual Springs
SupterTech CNC'd Titanium Retainers
Super Tech Bronze Valve Guides
SuperTech Seals
ARP Headstuds
Group N Engine Mounts
Group N Pitch Stop Mount

Infamous Performance and Tuning Complete AVCS Oil Line Kit
Killer B Oil Pick-Up
Killer B Windage Tray/Baffle
Killer B Oil Pan

Grimmspeed Cylinder Head to Exhaust Manifold Gaskets
Grimmspeed PnP, Thermal Coated Exhaust Manifolds
Grimmspeed PnP Exhaust Manifolds to HiFlow Crosspipe 2x Thickness Gaskets
Grimmspeed HiFlow, Thermal Coated Crosspipe
Grimmspeed PnP Exhaust Manifold to Uppipe 2x Thickness Gasket
STi Catless Uppipe
Grimmspeed Uppipe to Turbocharger Gasket

Turbocharger: GT2871R, Blouch Dom 1.0XT, ATP GT3071R, FP Green HTA
I believe these are the turbochargers that I’ve narrowed it down to, that I believe will fit my goals, but I may be wrong! Of the listed turbochargers or a suggestion of your own, which do think will suit my goals/needs best?

PTP Turbo Blanket
Grimmspeed Turbo Heatshield
Grimmspeed Turbocharger to Downpipe Gasket
Invidia 3” Catted Downpipe
Grimmspeed 3” Downpipe to 2.5” CBE Adapter Gasket 2x Thickness Gasket
Grimmspeed 3” Downpipe to 2.5” CBE Adapter
Subaru OEM Donut Gasket

Cold Air Intake: ??? (Dependent on Front Mounted Intercooler/Turbo Inlet Pipe)
I really have no clue which are the high performing, better for tuning CAIs on the market. I didn’t even consider one for this build until I was told that in all likelihood the RacerX FMIC would not work with the stock airbox.

2.4” or 3” Aftermarket Turbo Inlet Pipe: SAMCO, APS, Other? (Dependent on Turbocharger choice)

Grimmspeed 3 Port Electronic Boost Control Solenoid

RacerX Black Thermal Coated Front Mounted Intercooler – LegacyGT and STi Turbo location compatible.
TurboSmart Kompact BPV
SAMCO Silicon BPV Hose

Sidefeed TGV Delete Assemblies
Grimmspeed Intake Manifold to TGV Assembly Gaskets
Grimmspeed 8mm Phenolic Thermal Manifold Spacers (Allow more room for the turbocharger inlet)
Grimmspeed TGV Assemblies to Engine Gaskets (4)
Injector Dynamics 850cc Fuel Injectors (Topfeed Conversion Kit)
Injector Dynamics T1 Subaru STi SFC Feed Line Kit
Injector Dynamics Universal Fuel Injector USCAR to Subaru Denso PnP Adapter
OR
Topfeed TGV Delete Assemblies
Injector Dynamics Topfeed 850cc Injectors
Topfeed Fuel Rails: Perrin, Agency Power, OEM, ???
Topfeed Fuel Lines: Perrin, Agency Power, OEM, ???
Fuel Pressure Regulator
I’m not sure which route (Modified Sidefeed or Topfeed) I plan on going right yet. Do you have any input on which may prove to be better performing, more reliable, and better for tuning? Should I be looking into an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator as well?

Subaru NGK One Step Colder Spark Plugs

DeatschWerks 65c Fuel Pump

Crawford Version 2 Air-Oil Separator
Would it be wise to have an air-oil separator installed at this point?

SAMCO Silicon Coolant Hoses

Subaru OEM Single Mass Flywheel
Clutch Masters FX350 Clutch
Tranquil TSK3 Sleeve Kit and Replacement Bearing

Group N 5MT Transmission Mount


Many thanks in advance for any input, advice, criticism you may have to offer!

Benjamin

Max Capacity 08-04-2013 11:14 AM

Not much time right now...

Make sure you remove both banjo filters. Watch the turbo for noise and shaft play, after those codes my turbo lasted 1000 miles.

charlie_sheen 08-04-2013 11:23 AM

when you say light "track" use, do you mean dragway or autoX?

those turbo's wouldnt be best suited on an autoX course but they wouldnt be too shabby for a dragstrip.

Benjamin M 08-04-2013 11:39 AM

Not really autox, but a larger track. That's a far off goal as I'll need to keep the car running reliably as it's my DD for now. When I have a second mode of transportation, then it become more focused. Right now my driving is 85% long highway commutes, 15% stop and go city (Houston haha).

The reason for the major overhaul now, is to leave myself enough headroom, not to have to go back in too deep later on. I'm very fortunate to have all mechanic labor and 75% of the machine shop labor covered for this build, likely won't ever have that again, unless I learn it myself, acquire the tools and space to do such a task (which I would like to do!)

acumenhokie 08-04-2013 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benjamin M (Post 4530158)
Crawford Version 2 Air-Oil Separator
Would it be wise to have an air-oil separator installed at this point?

Yes.


Forgot all the other questions by the time I got to the end. :lol:

PutnamCO 08-04-2013 07:20 PM

That is quite a project. Your list looks great, just wondering why you aren't considering a BNR 68hta? I use my car similar to how you intend to use yours, and love the 68hta.

I am starting to look into an engine build myself, so I too am trying to learn about internals as well. I have chosen 4032 pistons because they are quieter, use less oil, and are generally better for daily drivers. I will be going with CP's because I've heard that Mike from Infamous uses them for his builds, and that's enough to convince me.

I have an AEM intake that has done well, and is supposedly easy to tune.

I have the KillerB pickup and baffle, and so far they have done well in preventing oil starvation at the track, and haven't felt the need for the pan.

Max Capacity 08-05-2013 04:39 AM

Have you picked out a Tuner ?

That should be on your list and follow his advice.

I'm questioning if you really need the valves and such, coated exhaust manifolds,

Your not looking for a 10 second car just a good DD.

You may want to find a used block in good shape and rebuild that instead of buying a new OEM and taking it apart and throwing away the insides.

I may have missed it, what tranny do you have ?

Benjamin M 08-05-2013 09:30 AM

Thank you all for your suggestions and advice so far!

The tuner I'm going to use is Kieth Fields from AWD Tuning near Dallas. I've sent my list to him with the same questions, and am waiting his return. I thought I would post this here so I could gather some more information without having to flood his inbox.

Ideally, I won't have to buy a new block, but just build my current one. My only worry was if the machinist would have to bore the cylinders to XXX.XX mm, that it would put the block at a significant risk. If so, I'd rather have the insurance of using a new block which would require such boring.

Benjamin M 08-05-2013 09:33 AM

It's the OEM MT.

The funds for parts for this project were initally for all suspension work. I wasn't going to do power until afterwards, but this came up as more necessary.

After this work is completed, I plan on carrying through with my suspension project, all the while keeping a fund saved for transmission work if/when it needs it.

Max Capacity 08-05-2013 10:19 AM

I would not order pistons until the machine shop measures your block. That's just common sense. You don't know what you have until they tell you. The pistons will opnly take a couple day to get to them.

If your not using a large amount of oil and the engine runs well, you should be able to stay with a standard bore with forged pistons. But wait till they measure.

I'm sure the machine shop will tell you the same.

My main point is don't spend money where it's not needed.


My DD wagon has the heads ported in the valve pocket and the dividers thinned, with minor clean up at the ports. The car feels great in mid range power, which is what I wanted for my back roads driving. 2nd and 3rd gear have nice pull.

Be careful about port matching, there is a thread over on NASIOC that talks about where you get the most out of these engines. When I talked to my machine shop, they already knew that info.

here's my thread.
http://legacygt.com/forums/showthrea...-r-184106.html

I haven't raced mine in the 1/4 mile since the rebuild, But my son who raced our Civic and I feel its a high 12 second car. It has some of the feel of my old Duster 340 that ran 13.00 back in the day with bogging out of the hole.

Oh yea, do you have the service manual and know about the "opposed forces" link at the top of the very first forum here ? http://people.csail.mit.edu/ilh/vacation/

Th3Franz 08-05-2013 01:23 PM

My goals are the same as yours. I do road course track days and DD.

Just buy a new short block from AWD Tuning. Fresh case, hone, new pistons (I went with JE). Manley H beam rods are a good reliable option for your power goals.
The 5MT will be a weak point.. it might last for awhile at 400 wtq, but I decided to go with a 6MT for better ratios, better diffs, and stronger to hold up to higher torque.

Benjamin M 08-06-2013 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Capacity (Post 4531130)
I would not order pistons until the machine shop measures your block. That's just common sense. You don't know what you have until they tell you. The pistons will opnly take a couple day to get to them.

Oh for sure. I'm just trying to best prepare myself for whatever news I receive fromt he machine shop. No parts purchased yet. But I'd like to "think" I have a plan for whichever scenario comes out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Capacity (Post 4531130)
My main point is don't spend money where it's not needed.

Agreed!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Capacity (Post 4531130)
Oh yea, do you have the service manual and know about the "opposed forces" link at the top of the very first forum here ? http://people.csail.mit.edu/ilh/vacation/

I received the manual from you ;)

Benjamin M 08-06-2013 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Th3Franz (Post 4531365)
Just buy a new short block from AWD Tuning. Fresh case, hone, new pistons (I went with JE). Manley H beam rods are a good reliable option for your power goals.

Pending the news from the machine shop, I very well may go this way. Ideally, my block is in good enough shape that it can be reused without issue or too much boring.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Th3Franz (Post 4531365)
The 5MT will be a weak point.. it might last for awhile at 400 wtq, but I decided to go with a 6MT for better ratios, better diffs, and stronger to hold up to higher torque.

Hoping for the best! I don't drop the clutch or launch any, so hopefully I get some use out of it. Least till I can save and source the parts for a 6MT swap.

Benjamin M 08-08-2013 05:58 AM

Pretty sure I've decided on the KSTech 73mm CAI.

Turbo Inlet is pending Turbo choice (2.4" inlet vs 3")

Still unsure which turbo I'm leaning towards....GT2871R, Blouch Dom 1.0XT, ATP GT3071R, AVO 380/450 :/ :/ :/

And still have my topfeed/sidefeed thinking/planning to tend to.

Max Capacity 08-08-2013 11:50 AM

As for a clutch, the Spec 2+ I had seemed to be easy to launch the car with. You can pre-load it while holding the e-brake and let the clutch slip a bit while at launch rpm. That loads the drivetrain so the shock is less when you launch.

Hold off on a CAI until you decide turbo and FMIC or TMIC.


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