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-   -   Cold start problems (http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201341)

AnthonySzum 02-08-2013 04:29 PM

Cold start problems
 
Evening all,

I have a 2011 Legacy 3.6. I recently been having problems starting my car via manual and remote start when it's cold (35 F and below) and sitting for a day or two. I hit the remote start this morning which was recently increased to a 1.4 sec crank time and it started to crank but never fully turned over. I went in to manually start it and it took about a good 6-8 sec to fully start, sputtering in between. It has been happening more and more especially when using the remote start but only when it's cold. I just came back from the service center to have them check it out and they said everything looks fine, battery included.
Does anyone have any idea why this could be happening to a two year old car that gets serviced regularly?

Much appreciated,
-Anthony

GTEASER 02-08-2013 04:32 PM

Is it the original OEM battery?

AnthonySzum 02-08-2013 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTEASER (Post 4285333)
Is it the original OEM battery?

Yes it is. They said it's still good. They tested it two different ways.

Jace2010LGT 02-08-2013 04:44 PM

This is just a guess based on my experience. Low residual fuel pressure.
I'm going to use a water hose as an analogy.
When you turn your car off fuel should be trapped in the line under pressure. The injectors act as a nozzle. The fuel lines as a hose. And the pump as the valve. If you turn the valve off and the nozzle is closed the hose will still have pressure. This pressure is what give you immediate starting. If the valve (fuel pump) is allowing pressure to bleed off into the tank then it will take 5-15 seconds for the pump to push fuel from the tank to the injectors and the car will sputter and mis until the pump has pushed fuel pressure to spec. Take it back and complain of the exact same thing this time leave it overnight. If they don't see the problem contact soa.
I have seen this problem on other vehicles in my profession. Though rare it mostly happens within the first 2-3 years.
Good luck. Understand that this is an educated guess. Since I can't put my hands on your car this is the best I can do.

Jace2010LGT 02-08-2013 04:47 PM

Was the car cranking but would not run? Or was intermittently cranking?
If it was steadily cranking but would not start then it is not a battery. If it was intermittently cranking then I could be a battery.
I thought in the above post that you meant it would crank 8-10 sec before firing.

AnthonySzum 02-08-2013 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jace2010LGT (Post 4285352)
This is just a guess based on my experience. Low residual fuel pressure.
I'm going to use a water hose as an analogy.
When you turn your car off fuel should be trapped in the line under pressure. The injectors act as a nozzle. The fuel lines as a hose. And the pump as the valve. If you turn the valve off and the nozzle is closed the hose will still have pressure. This pressure is what give you immediate starting. If the valve (fuel pump) is allowing pressure to bleed off into the tank then it will take 5-15 seconds for the pump to push fuel from the tank to the injectors and the car will sputter and mis until the pump has pushed fuel pressure to spec. Take it back and complain of the exact same thing this time leave it overnight. If they don't see the problem contact soa.
I have seen this problem on other vehicles in my profession. Though rare it mostly happens within the first 2-3 years.
Good luck. Understand that this is an educated guess. Since I can't put my hands on your car this is the best I can do.

I was reading that this diagnosis is possible from online somewhere before posting this. They did say that if this happens again, to leave it overnight. I did suggest something about the possibility of the fuel evaporating once they said they couldn't find anything but they shook their head.
If this is in fact the case, what is the fix for this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jace2010LGT (Post 4285361)
Was the car cranking but would not run? Or was intermittently cranking?
If it was steadily cranking but would not start then it is not a battery. If it was intermittently cranking then I could be a battery.
I thought in the above post that you meant it would crank 8-10 sec before firing.

My apologies. My terminology might be off. The second the key is turned, thats cranking then it will "fire" and fully start. If this is right, then yes, it cranked for 6-8 seconds before firing.

Jace2010LGT 02-08-2013 05:18 PM

Replace fuel pump.

AnthonySzum 02-08-2013 05:28 PM

Any reason why it would happen only when its cold out?

Jace2010LGT 02-08-2013 05:49 PM

I've had it happen only when cold on some cars and only when hot on others. Basically it's a defect in the pump where instead of sealing fuel in the line under pressure it just bleeds it back into the tank. I had a car a few months ago that would only do it every fourth or fifth start. Hooked a fuel pressure gauge inline and under idle was seeing approx 35-45 psi. Would let it sit for hours holding around 25 psi. Then I would try a few more times and it would get to below 10 psi and extended crank condition would happen until the pump pushed pressure over 20 psi.

AnthonySzum 02-09-2013 08:37 AM

So I just got off the phone with the service department and I told them it happened again this morning and they couldn't understand why...again. I mentioned the possibility of a faulty fuel pump and/or fuel pressure regulator and they said they connected the computer to the car and no codes came up. Is it true a code would come up for this problem or are they screwing me around?

Jace2010LGT 02-09-2013 08:43 AM

The only codes that may come up would be lean codes. 99% of the time there will be no codes present. Take it to them and leave it overnight.

AnthonySzum 02-09-2013 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jace2010LGT (Post 4286257)
The only codes that may come up would be lean codes. 99% of the time there will be no codes present. Take it to them and leave it overnight.

I'm going to do that next week when I'm off. Is this the only way to test the fuel pump? My apologies with all the questions. I'm just trying to learn in the process of having to tell the service department to do their job.

Jace2010LGT 02-09-2013 09:35 AM

The best thing to do is be nice when you go in. Tell them the problem and tell them you want to leave it overnight. If you walk in and immediately start a pissing contest then you will probably be ignored or at best placated. A technician has to duplicate or see blatant evidence of a problem to issue a warranty repair. We can get in serious trouble for guessing as the manufacturer calls all parts back for inspection. You can understand why they do this. If this system wasn't in place people would walk in and say my car is using too much gas you need to replace the engine. The OEMs have to pay for that part and the technicians labor (although it is at such a low rate the tech actually looses money). The biggest issue is the OEMs don't pay techs for diagnostic work or if they do it is a fraction of the time it actually takes to figure the problem out. So in this scenario the tech will do a basic inspection and check for codes but since he is NOT getting paid it will stop there unless he can duplicate after 3-5 attempts. If you leave it overnight and he hops in and has this issue he will have a direction to go in and won't feel as if he is loosing money or wasting time.
Patience is your best decision. Be nice and try to identify with your service advisor. It is a proven fact that people will do more for you when they can identify with you. I've been a master tech for 8 1/2 years, I know how this system works.

Crazy_Pilot 02-09-2013 09:42 AM

The next time it's cold switch the key on and off (without canking) 4-5 times to put the pump through it's priming cycle repeatedly. If this consistently solves the issue then it's definitely a loss in fuel pressure that's the problem.

Rutchard 02-09-2013 10:54 AM

Just turning the car to "ON" for a few seconds before trying to start would probably be better than flicking it on and off 4-5 times.


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