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-   -   2009 WRX OEM setup on 2013 Legacy 6MT (http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200789)

Scooby-GT 01-31-2013 11:30 AM

2009 WRX OEM setup on 2013 Legacy 6MT
 
Today, I am happy to announce to you that we have another option to our suspension choices. For the those who has been around, you know that I have been running a few different low buck setups:

Stock 2013 suspension (duh!)
Stock 2013 struts/shocks with LGT Swifts (http://legacygt.com/forums/showthrea....html?t=194770)
Stock 2011 LGT suspension
And in the past month, I came across a set of brand new stock suspension out of a 2009 WRX hatch.


So why am I doing this?

1) To find out if the WRX setup is a bolt-on to the legacy
2) T0 find out the differences in ride quality
3) To find out the differences in ride height
4) My 2013 base weights 3315lbs, and a WRX hatch weights 3230lbs, will this setup hold its own? and will it last?
5) If #1 hold true as a bolt-on, we know the option of running aftermarket setup for the WRX is not very far off. Are you tried of waiting for RCE to make their Bilstein available?
6) I do not want to run a coilover for the street, especially the shotty streets we have here. I would love a set of KWs, but that is out of the reach us working people. Koni's on stock springs would be the next best option for us lower buck modders.

For those who like numbers and things, this is what I've gathered:


Stock Subaru Springs:
2010 Legacy's spring rates 165F/177R (http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost....2&postcount=77)
2008 WRX's spring rates 151F/136R (unverified)
2009 WRX's spring rates 216F/209R (source 1, unverified)
2009 WRX's spring rates 223F/195R (source 2, unverified)
2008+ STI's spring rates 217F/194R (http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gr-suspe...ing-rates.html)
2011+ STI's spring rates 251F/297R (http://www.wrxforums.com/forums/82-c...ion-specs.html)
Note1: 2011+ WRX's rates are stiffer than before
Note2: 2010 STI SE has an even stiffer OEM setup. No info on this one either.

Aftermarket Springs:
2010+ LGT Swift's rates 190F/224R (http://www.swiftsprings.com/products...t-springs.html)
2010+ LGT Tein S-Tech 219F/241R (unverified)
2010+ LGT Eibach pro-kit 200-296F/217-274R (http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost....2&postcount=77)
2010+ LGT RCE Black 240F/245R (http://www.gtworx.com/index.php/rce-...t-springs.html)
2008+ WRX RCE Yellow 330F/330R (http://www.gtworx.com/index.php/gtwo...psportkit.html)
2008+ WRX RCE Black 275F/250R (http://www.gtworx.com/index.php/gtwo...psportkit.html)



Moving on to answering the above:

1) The full stock WRX suspension is a complete bolt-on to the 5th gen Legacy, provided that you replace the WRX front top hats with the Legacy unit. I believe you can use the WRX top hats if you enlarge the three strut bolt holes. I didn't bother doing this as I had my top hats readily available.

2) After about 1000 miles of driving around the Bay Area, I found the ride quality is close if not identical to the 2011 LGT setup I immediately had before. This is however not as firm as the stock 2013 suspension nor the Swifts I had after it.

3) I never got the chance to measure the ride height when I still had the car in stock 2013 form. But as you see below, the front drop is almost identical to drop from my Swifts/2013 setup. The rear is unfortunately quite a bit higher, I believe the WRX is more rear weight biased than the Legacy. Please note that all this applies to my 2013 2.5i 6MT only. CVT, Turbo, and H6 cars are even more nose heavy, so your results will vary.

Measurements to the middle of the fender from the ground:

2013 Legacy 2.5i stock suspension: 27 3/4" to 28 (per fredrik94087)
Swifts with 2013 strut/shocks: LF: 26 3/4 RF: 26 7/8 LR: 26 11/16 RR: 27 5/16
2009 WRX stock OEM suspension: LF: 26 7/8 RF: 26 15/16 LR: 27 3/4 RR: 28 1/2
Swifts with 2009 WRX dampers: LF: 26 1/16 RF: 26 3/16 LR: 26 11/16 RR: 27 3/16


4) Even though the car is around 80lbs heavier than the WRX hatch, I didn't notice the suspension bottoming out any more often than any other stock Subaru would. In other words, the car rides 100% like stock.

5) Yes, yes, and yes. We should be able to run Koni yellow or Bilstein or whatever setup that are made for the WRX. With the front inserts of the Koni, you do not need a WRX strut, the Legacy will work the same. The rears will be a 100% bolt-on.

Am I doing a good job? If so, please click here to donate to my Koni-yellow fund to bring you more exciting experiments in the future:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/websc...=SACRS9FBBMS42



Let's continue onward with the pics:

http://imageshack.us/a/img546/9836/i...0130132905.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img705/4680/i...0130132854.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img442/6594/i...0130132848.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img811/3261/i...0130132839.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img7/6176/img20130130132831.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img23/1598/img20130130132820.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img4/2482/img20130130132813.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img18/4644/img20130130132805.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img832/6246/i...0130132754.jpg


So what is next?

Since no one here wants to buy my Swifts, I am considering throwing them in onto the stock WRX setup. I am curious to know how ride height and ride quality diff from my Swifts/2013 setup. After that, I will most likely order a set of WRX Koni and either run them with the stock WRX springs or experiment again with the Swifts. While the 2013 dampers were more compliant to the stiffer Swifts springs, I still felt they were under-damp. With the adjustability of the Koni, I hope we can reach a more optimal settings that matches the Swifts.

However if I come across a set of 2011+ STI, I'll have to try those first. So let me know if you see a set of new or near new in the Bay Area!

Any questions? Again donations to my Koni-yellow fund is GREATLY appreciated.

GTEASER 01-31-2013 11:41 AM

Subscribed.

fredrik94087 01-31-2013 12:12 PM

First of all, thank you very much for taking on something like this.

I got the Eibach numbers from GTEASER's post...my post was a compilation of what people were stating.

I checked the WRX suspension information at:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...2DLR7k&ct=clnk

2008 spring rates f/r 151/136
2009 spring rates f/r 216/209

But, I see on another forum where they have posted:
"STi spring rates are 217 front/194 rear. 09 WRX are 216 front, 193 rear
The 08 STi fronts are the same rate (+/- a couple lbs) as the 09 WRX stockers, but they have EXACTLY a 1/2" drop.
The 08 STi rears are exactly the same as the 09 WRX stockers in both rate and ride height."

Suffice it to say that MAYBE the WRX springs and struts give you a 1/2" drop while the STI springs will get you a 1" drop?!?!?!?!
STI struts WILL NOT fit.

I wish I had the 2013 legacy spring rates. We assume it is around 192F/204R because it is about 20% stiffer than 2012...but this is just a guess.

Someone please help.

Scooby-GT 01-31-2013 12:18 PM

Do you have the 2012 Legacy spring rate? confirmed? from LGT or 2.5i or H6?

GTEASER 01-31-2013 12:34 PM

I want to say that this was published in one of RCE's spring threads. I think I remember reading 160/170, LGT and probably the same as 3.6R

GTEASER 01-31-2013 12:38 PM

It would be really helpful to get hard data in the form of measurements to compare these, and not just ride height, measurements on the struts/shocks too. You can spend all day mixing and matching, and until you know the specs on the mechanicals you are working with, it will always be a shot in the dark and you could go through 10 iterations without really knowing what you are comparing.

One of the critical measurements is spring perch to upright bolt hole (front) and spring perch to LCA mounting eye (rear). If those are the same between Legacy and WRX, then the springs are what is controlling the ride height, not the strut assembly.

Sleepr56 01-31-2013 12:58 PM

Two reference threads on how to make the front STi strut mounts compatible for the 08+ WRX, 09+ Forester, and potentially our '10+ Legacy's.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2262817

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulle...-09-fxt-65674/

In short, adjust position of lower strut mounting hole (notch or weld & re-drill), and use washers or spacer/shim to take up difference in knuckle thickness.

Scooby-GT 01-31-2013 01:04 PM

GTeaser, I beg to differ. I am not mixing and matching different OEM springs with different OEM dampers. I see it as they were well matched from the factory.

What was more important was the fitment check, rather it was a bolt-on or not. And how the setup rode, and how much drop they provided.

With the Swifts on, the WRX strut body was about half an inch shorter than the 2013 Legacy unit. The rear shock assembly was about identical.

http://imageshack.us/a/img819/2598/i...0151333656.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img534/2955/i...0161324334.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img441/7678/i...0161338839.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img20/9602/im...0161346233.jpg

fredrik94087 01-31-2013 01:15 PM

Scooby...you're an inspiration.

I wanted to confirm a few things with you before I move forward with my $2000 project.

You used 2009 WRX 5-door OEM struts/shocks and springs and NOTHING else was needed except the top-hat/strut-mount from your 2013 Legacy, correct?

I need to confirm this because I ans seriously contemplating doing the following....
$320 x2 2009 WRX struts
$340 x2 koni fronts
$320 x2 koni rears
$350 RCE Blacks
$635 install, strut build, alignment at Garage One
Total of $1965 assuming no tax nor shipping.

Scooby-GT 01-31-2013 01:35 PM

Thanks fredrik94087. If I am spending that kind of coin, I would spend a few hundreds more for the KW coilovers. As much as I think this will be a great street setup, no one has done it, and it is unproven. Is street ride quality a concern to you? if so, I am not so sure about the RCE springs. If I were you, I'd skip the RCE, and just use the 2013 springs on the Koni's. Also, check Craigslist for some shot up WRX front struts, you don't need the rear WRX shocks so don't drop that much for some used WRX setup.

To answer your question, yes, you just need to swap the top hat for things to bolt-in. Why are you spending that much for a shop to do it? You should do it yourself!

SpidermanMTL 01-31-2013 01:37 PM

Just curious why you would go your route instead of just buying a set of coil-overs?

all the trouble of buying different pieces when you could just buy a set and have the company make some spec changes if you so wanted......

Scooby-GT 01-31-2013 01:41 PM

Two words, ride quality. Also I don't want to spend $1k for some cheap coilovers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpidermanMTL (Post 4272398)
Just curious why you would go your route instead of just buying a set of coil-overs?

all the trouble of buying different pieces when you could just buy a set and have the company make some spec changes if you so wanted......


fredrik94087 01-31-2013 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpidermanMTL (Post 4272398)
Just curious why you would go your route instead of just buying a set of coil-overs?

all the trouble of buying different pieces when you could just buy a set and have the company make some spec changes if you so wanted......

I will be at almost $2000 with install and alignment.

Even the cheapest price for KW ~$1900...if in fact it is real and there is no other cost, I'd have to get them installed and get an alignment...bringing me to at least $2400. The ride height is going to be lower than I'd like at it's highest setting, and if something blows it will be harder to replace than the Koni's.

Like I said, I am SERIOUSLY considering this. I have not yet pulled the trigger.

Cheers,
Fred

fredrik94087 01-31-2013 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooby-GT (Post 4272395)
To answer your question, yes, you just need to swap the top hat for things to bolt-in. Why are you spending that much for a shop to do it? You should do it yourself!

I am not that talented...and I have a baby at the house. They can shuttle me to and from work while they do the install, AND the other half is none the wiser....

GTEASER 01-31-2013 02:11 PM

Those side-by-side pictures are encouraging me that the Koni Yellow WRX rear shocks and front inserts may be a solution for our Legacys.


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