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-   -   BulletProof-TMIC Mod - LGT, 08+ WRX (http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158870)

SeeeeeYa 03-30-2011 02:34 PM

BulletProof-TMIC Mod - LGT, 08+ WRX
 
1 Attachment(s)
I posted first here, in this thread:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthrea...do-151413.html

Another thread on NASIOC was deleted so it is no longer available, unfortunately, due to vendor influence and site rules. Hopefully the word will reach those members there that are interested, and they will find this forum. The few NASIOC members who installed this mod and created threads to show results to others had their threads shuffled off to remote corners, but at least they still exist. Be proud of LegacyGT.com.

This still sums the BP Mod up...

This simple mod is the absolute cure for the "plastic" TMIC, that makes it better IMO than the solid aluminum WRX TMIC, and I also argue that it is better than most of the aftermarket alternatives... for a street driven DD Stg2.
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UPDATE!!
BulletProof TMIC Mod Kits now available!

October 20, 2012: BarManBean's Website for ORDERING your Kit: https://sites.google.com/site/bptmickit/

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NOTE:
If you have the tools and skills, and are interested in fabricating your own kit...

The BP Mod files are still available, just send me a PM.
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Picture of Original

BAC5.2 03-30-2011 02:36 PM

Why better than a better flowing core with more thermal mass?

VTGT 03-30-2011 03:22 PM

What happened to the 3.0R. I thought you were out of the modding game ;)

SeeeeeYa 03-30-2011 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAC5.2 (Post 3329426)
Why better than a better flowing core with more thermal mass?

"Thermal mass" is the reason. :) In daily driving that thermal mass does just that... absorbs a large mass of thermal energy. That heat, largely from the engine, is both larger and lasts longer in the HEAVY aftermarket TMICs.

The single most significant power-related "benefit" of most aftermarket TMICs is the fact they have less internal resistance. That, to me anyway, signals a loss in efficiency as well.

Not to mention raising your center of gravity with a ton of aluminum up high.

I've done both. Read the NASIOC thread.

seabass07 03-30-2011 03:26 PM

It is at least better than jbweld... Did this cause any fitment issues with the engine cover?

SeeeeeYa 03-30-2011 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VTGT (Post 3329495)
What happened to the 3.0R. I thought you were out of the modding game ;)

The 3.0R Limited was a magnificent car. But, especially after my LGT, boring to me.

I'm back to having fun with almost the same car as my 05 LGT... only better for me. The new WRX, as you know, is just a shortened Legacy platform with a different top... and for 2011, wider stance. It handles better than my LGT did with coilovers. Stage 2 power with no more than an AEM CAI and Cobb and SPT exhaust blows my Stg2 with meth LGT away, by quite a bit. It's the same car as the Legacy I loved, but everywhere I look, though it's the same... it is different in subtle ways, improved and not needing immediate assistance.

My BulletProof TMIC Mod came out of my wanting to keep this car at this level. I could have had a Process West TMIC on it... but it would have just encouraged me to do injectors and pump, at least, for now, etc. This car is a blast just the way it is. With the TMIC removed as a failure element I have reason to believe I can enjoy my car for a good time to come without a known worry. Since my 05 LGT shared the same TMIC I thought it might be of interest here.

camber 03-30-2011 03:58 PM

Cool...

Thanks!

SBT 03-30-2011 04:17 PM

Nicely done - saw this on Nasioc and was wondering whether you posted over here. Thanks!

SBT 03-30-2011 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seabass07 (Post 3329504)
It is at least better than jbweld... Did this cause any fitment issues with the engine cover?

Didn't know the WRX came with an engine cover...:confused:

SeeeeeYa 03-30-2011 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBT (Post 3329568)
Didn't know the WRX came with an engine cover...:confused:

Nope, no engine cover on the WRX. I was disappointed at first, mostly because of the ducting. But when I saw how it worked, and later after I enhanced it, I'm happy with the WRX's nude engine bay. It's functional and easier to keep an eye on. One would have to re-engineer the LGT to make the air duct work right.

As for any alterations on the LGT engine cover, whatever they turn out to be will be very minor. Only the acorn nuts on the ends of the rails will be a factor, if at all. Stock TMIC, stock fitting cover, therefore stock fitting air duct.

The only difference is, it will never, ever, have a separated endtank.

bnguyenbb6 03-30-2011 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeeeeeYa (Post 3329499)
"Thermal mass" is the reason. :) In daily driving that thermal mass does just that... absorbs a large mass of thermal energy. That heat, largely from the engine, is both larger and lasts longer in the HEAVY aftermarket TMICs.

The single most significant power-related "benefit" of most aftermarket TMICs is the fact they have less internal resistance. That, to me anyway, signals a loss in efficiency as well.

Not to mention raising your center of gravity with a ton of aluminum up high.

I've done both. Read the NASIOC thread.

I've gone way past stage 2 but for the sake of discussion...how is less resistence/freer flow bad?

BAC5.2 03-30-2011 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeeeeeYa (Post 3329499)
"Thermal mass" is the reason. :) In daily driving that thermal mass does just that... absorbs a large mass of thermal energy. That heat, largely from the engine, is both larger and lasts longer in the HEAVY aftermarket TMICs.

It takes longer to heat soak a big TMIC, and moving more than a few mph will bring engine bay temps down to near ambient temperatures. Your argument works both ways, and in most daily drives you are moving more than you are stopped.

Quote:

The single most significant power-related "benefit" of most aftermarket TMICs is the fact they have less internal resistance. That, to me anyway, signals a loss in efficiency as well.
You are wrong.

1) Bar and plate provides more cooling surface area than tube and fin. Tubes and fins have low galley surface area, and low cooling fin density. Bar and plate cores typically have more than double the galley surface area (the wet surface area, even ignoring depth) and the same or greater fin density.

2) The increased size of the galleys, and the decrease in flow resistance they provide, decreases pressure drop across the core as well. A decreased pressure drop means your turbo is actually making less boost at the outlet of the compressor AND it isn't working as hard to pump air through a restrictive box. This decrease in outlet pressure and decrease in resistance drops the outlet air temperature significantly. Your turbo is working more efficiently, and the system as a whole is operating at higher efficiency. Lower inlet temperatures mean more dense air, which also means greater difficulty in heating that air.

Quote:

Not to mention raising your center of gravity with a ton of aluminum up high.
You are overstating the weight of an aftermarket TMIC. Yours, with the clamps, versus my aluminum aftermarket TMIC is really only going to be a pound or two more.

A pound or two, two or three inches above the center of gravity is not going to make a difference.

Having long hair versus a shaved head would have about the same impact on the center of gravity. Last I checked, Jenson Button had longer hair than Lewis Hamilton.

Quote:

I've done both. Read the NASIOC thread.
Done both of what? You've stopped the endtanks from blowing off, but you aren't going to outperform a bigger TMIC.

This is a good cheap fix, and your execution is top notch, but it is not better than aftermarket alternatives. Cheaper, and good for people looking for less out of their cars, but not better.

SeeeeeYa 03-30-2011 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnguyenbb6 (Post 3329614)
I've gone way past stage 2 but for the sake of discussion...how is less resistence/freer flow bad?

The better an intercooler the lower the output temperature. The lower the temperature the lower the psi, as cooler air takes up less space than warmer air. Just because a big heavy bar and plate has a, relatively, low pressure loss does NOT mean it is more efficient. A straight pipe would enable the maximum psi output of the turbo to the engine...

The tube and fin design of stock intercoolers is unexcelled, size for size and weight for weight. Personal logging has confirmed my stock TMIC does just fine at high Stg2 levels, which in the WRX is in the 300 whp vicinity. Many many people are and have been happy with these cars at this level for years. Now that I have the TMIC and BPV taken care of, along with clamping all my vacuum/boost lines, I'm enjoying my car with a greater sense of security.

The AVO TMIC was often shown installed with an AVO turbo making 300ish whp. It's expensive. It's heavy. It is not as efficient. And it in the final analysis, despite its or Perrin's claims, becomes a bottleneck for power not much further down the road.... the road I'm not soon going down.

mwiener2 03-30-2011 06:27 PM

I think JB weld looks better and is just as effective.

underpowerd 03-30-2011 06:30 PM

good to see you here, jeff; have long missed your insight.
the wrx is an auto?


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