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-   -   P0011, P0021, Missfire, OCV or Oil flow Control Valve (http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141880)

speddmn 07-20-2010 08:14 AM

P0011, P0021, Missfire, OCV or Oil flow Control Valve
 
** Note, if you have this code and you smell burnt rubber and your turbo is whining its most likely too late, turbo was oil starved and is dead...** (stop blaming the BANJO bolt unless you pull it and its full of garbage)

Logging this primarly as search fodder. Last Thursday I was preparing for a road trip when I threw P0011 (P0011 "A" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Advanced or System Performance (Bank 1) ) and missfires at 1,3 and 4. I was late on my oil change by about 1,000 miles but had kept it topped off to full. The terrible performance only occured when the car was warm indicating to me this wasnt a timing belt issue or some other static issue, it had to be related to heat or oil...

P0011 and P0021 appear to be primarily due to Oil flow Control Valve failure or sticking. the OCV regulates oil pressure to the cam sprocket which adjusts VVT for the intake cams on the passenger (P0011) and Drivers (P0021) side.

There are a number of threads correlating turbo failure and these codes. It would appear to me, after my experience, that turbo failure can be a result of not addressing this issue promptly, rather than P0011 = Turbo failure. Here's how I got around the issue, this may or may not work for you.

After a ton of searching i happend across this thread with pics

http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost....28&postcount=8
I limped the car from O'Reilly's (where I got the code read) to the nearest lube shop and got an oil change ASAP. The car then ran fine until it warmed up where it having the same missfires, CEL etc. I limped it home and found the above thread. What I did was pulled the passenger side OCV (under the intake tube, exactly opposite the drivers side pictured in the thread above) by removing the bolt and harness, sliding it half way out, rotating it 90* CCW looking at it from the front, then wiggling it past the support bracket. The vale itself moved freely but did have some buildup on the spring at the tip. I nailed the valve with a ton of PB blaster (i'm sure any penetrating oil would work) and worked the action quite a bit. I then, thinking back to old starter solenoids, shot a bit of PB into the crevices in the metal casing and gave the solenoid several pops with a small hammer to loosen it up (holding it in my hand, it wasnt like i was crushing it against the floor), PB blasted again rinse and repeat a few times. After dunking the valve into some oil I reinstalled and took the car for a 15mi drive. The CEL stayed on but i no longer had high or low power symptoms.

After that I hit the road, 450 miles (CEL eventually went off) as of this morning and no issues. I plan to replace the vale soon anyhow but that got me on the road. Hope it helps..

I 5EAT Turkey Clubs 07-22-2010 01:32 PM

OK I got this same code the other day. I was at the dealer for unrelated issues. The service tech told me that my car was about 1/2 quart low on oil. Not sure how because I always check it. Anyways the guy told me they went ahead and put a half quart of oil in (they had done this already- without asking me if I wanted them to) and I said "ya great" because I was focused on the issues at hand. I was driving into my driveway when all the sudden the CEL came back on. At first I thought that my original problemhad reared up again but the codes say P0021 and P0011. Could be my turbo but I'm praying it's not (it was acting quite normal). I did immediately realize that the dealership doesn't use fully synthetic oil which my car has been running for many miles now. Could that create the problem I'm experiencing if I really didn't drive it all that far? I will follow the steps above as well as in the link to see if that's the problem. I have also read it could be a belt issue and my serpentine does seem to be making louder than normal noises. Any help is appreciated.

speddmn 07-23-2010 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I 5EAT Turkey Clubs (Post 3030622)
OK I got this same code the other day. I was at the dealer for unrelated issues. The service tech told me that my car was about 1/2 quart low on oil. Not sure how because I always check it. Anyways the guy told me they went ahead and put a half quart of oil in (they had done this already- without asking me if I wanted them to) and I said "ya great" because I was focused on the issues at hand. I was driving into my driveway when all the sudden the CEL came back on. At first I thought that my original problemhad reared up again but the codes say P0021 and P0011. Could be my turbo but I'm praying it's not (it was acting quite normal). I did immediately realize that the dealership doesn't use fully synthetic oil which my car has been running for many miles now. Could that create the problem I'm experiencing if I really didn't drive it all that far? I will follow the steps above as well as in the link to see if that's the problem. I have also read it could be a belt issue and my serpentine does seem to be making louder than normal noises. Any help is appreciated.

it's easy enough to try cleaing your OCV's, it really is a snap to do it whole thing wont likely take more than 30 minutes. Once you put em back on the car remember you'll have to get warm (should run normally cold) and probably have to get up to high enough speed/rpm to trigger the VVT.

Not that i'm recommending you go balls out if the car's running like crap.

speddmn 08-16-2010 02:22 PM

Updating: I finally got the valve replaced ($110 at the stealership)

in total i put 1,040 miles on the bad valve and cleaned it twice after problems... the new valve has perma-fixed the issue. Cleaning the valve is pretty much a bandaid.

FredBeansParts 09-08-2010 08:26 AM

Hi folks. Due to the high number of requests we've had for replacement OCVs, we've added them to our site for your convenience.

You can find them here: http://www.fredbeansparts.com/index....rol-valve.html

* Need to select '05-'06 or '07-'09 to get the correct version for your car.

http://www.fredbeansparts.com/media/...10921aa020.jpg

mpiotro 09-08-2010 09:18 AM

I've heard the install torque on these solenoids can be very important also. I cleaned mine and it seems to be OK, but I have thrown a cyl 3 misfire intermittenly. I logged AVCS left and right for days on end and never found a problem. Quit logging and it threw a code-LOL. Typically more AVCS advance is called for at lower rpm/higher load situations. The solenoid fails to move on one side and you get a misfire code. I am still getting a rare cyl 3 misfire once every 3 weeks or so that I feel like is related to this solenoid, but I hate to throw money at an issue without being 100% sure.

For those with Cobb you can log both AVCS left and right, they should stay pretty close together with 2 degrees of each other at all times. If one side lags consistently in degrees of advance, it's probably the solenoid (or the banjo filter to the solenoid)

speddmn 09-09-2010 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpiotro (Post 3085729)
I've heard the install torque on these solenoids can be very important also. I cleaned mine and it seems to be OK, but I have thrown a cyl 3 misfire intermittenly. I logged AVCS left and right for days on end and never found a problem. Quit logging and it threw a code-LOL. Typically more AVCS advance is called for at lower rpm/higher load situations. The solenoid fails to move on one side and you get a misfire code. I am still getting a rare cyl 3 misfire once every 3 weeks or so that I feel like is related to this solenoid, but I hate to throw money at an issue without being 100% sure.

For those with Cobb you can log both AVCS left and right, they should stay pretty close together with 2 degrees of each other at all times. If one side lags consistently in degrees of advance, it's probably the solenoid (or the banjo filter to the solenoid)

Install torque is, of course, going to be important as snapping a bolt off would be bad... beyond that there's no serious direct correlation between the tension on that bracket and the seating of the device.

As to your issue if your missfire is rare I doubt it's the solenoid... as with starter solenoids and others for the most part they either work or they dont... if this thing doesn't work you get a lot more than 1 cyl misfiring, the whole car runs like absolute shyte :) with mutliple missfires.. The whole bank will intermittently fail causing intermittent failure on the drivers bank as well.

Take a look at your plug gapping and coil on cyl3?

Oh and check your wiring harness for cyl3 coil for breaks/tears/fraying/weakness

schism 11-03-2010 07:43 PM

Nice to have found this thread. Getting this code on our FXT, funny, the valve seems uninhibited... Doesn't run bad outside of the motor going into 'safe mode' - no cruise, waste gate open. Could it just be 'dirty oil'? Changed it tonight, doesn't seem that bad... Bank 1 is driver side, correct?

porterdog 11-04-2010 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schism (Post 3154502)
Nice to have found this thread. Getting this code on our FXT, funny, the valve seems uninhibited... Doesn't run bad outside of the motor going into 'safe mode' - no cruise, waste gate open. Could it just be 'dirty oil'? Changed it tonight, doesn't seem that bad... Bank 1 is driver side, correct?


If you're only getting codes for *one* side, blame the valve or the banjo bolt filter. If you're getting codes for *both* sides... that's trouble with the oil supply. Keep an eye your oil, hope for the best, and don't be surprised if the turbo lets go soon.

speddmn 11-04-2010 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schism (Post 3154502)
Nice to have found this thread. Getting this code on our FXT, funny, the valve seems uninhibited... Doesn't run bad outside of the motor going into 'safe mode' - no cruise, waste gate open. Could it just be 'dirty oil'? Changed it tonight, doesn't seem that bad... Bank 1 is driver side, correct?

Which code are you getting? 11 is passenger side, 21 is drivers. It could be just dirty oil but my digging around found that an oil change or cleaning & oiling the valve seems to be a temporary fix and replacement's needed to correct it. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it's not your banjo bolt because I've yet to see anyone actually post proof that something went wrong because of the bolt, everyone just talks about it.

The way I see it 3 things can affect the OCV valve(s)
1. incorrect oil pressure
2. valve failure
3. dirty oil

Good luck, let us know how it turns out.

schism 11-05-2010 09:08 PM

Thanks all for responding.

Holding pattern.

-Wednesday night, changed oil.

-Yesterday (thursday) before heading home, swapped valves (left to right). Reset ECU, very possibly haven't driven it enough, should know Monday - most likely while driving to work.

If it throws P0022, then I'm swapping the valve.

iv_05gt 09-09-2011 06:51 PM

Thank you for this write up... what you explained was quite literally the exact issue that happened to me. Maintained oil level, bit late on change. Threw p0021 ran real bad. I got nervous and checked forums before i continued my night of driving. Saw your post.. got home good. Cleaned valves and did oil change today and reset ecu.

Thanks alot!

wac 09-26-2011 09:32 PM

Hindsight is 20/20
 
Thanks for starting this post. Unfortunately, I didn't have the inspiration to search the proper keywords to find this post weeks ago, when I started getting constant Check Engine lights and the burnt rubber smell at 100K. I had pulled a P0021 code 9 months ago at 95K, but it stayed away until recently. 100K, the MIL would flash and never clear even after the requisite # of driving cycles.

Well, one blown turbo later, and I can check off every warning flag that you listed:
  • I smell burnt rubber after getting out of the car.
  • Light misfire just before MIL turns on, and can happen under or off load. But I incorrectly attributed these to the ECU changing modes just before/after turning on the MIL (and perhaps changing fuel maps).
  • I got P0011 and P0021 codes, but I didn't pull them until *after* the turbo went.
  • MIL light stays on and doesn't clear.
  • Turbo dies.
  • My oil level was at the "L" mark, but I didn't find this out until *after* the turbo went.

The banjo bolt filter had some very small grains of sediment on the screen, but I wouldn't call it even close to clogged. The Valvoline full synthetic oil is dark but very clean (no sludge formation).

I'll have to blame the turbo failure on the 100K mileage and hit-or-miss IHI quality control. I'll reserve judgment on the OCV until I pull it out for a closer look and clean it like you suggested at the beginning of this writeup.

ktmrider 09-30-2011 02:26 PM

Don't forget to check the oil pickup tube for cracks! Lot of threads, use "Killer B" for keyword.

Turbo failures usually come with P0011 when the banjo bolt screen clogs. Getting both 11 and 21 and decent oil level/cleanliness would have me dropping the pan ASAP or at least before the turbo is replaced and run.

wac 10-05-2011 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ktmrider (Post 3571857)
Don't forget to check the oil pickup tube for cracks! Lot of threads, use "Killer B" for keyword.

Turbo failures usually come with P0011 when the banjo bolt screen clogs. Getting both 11 and 21 and decent oil level/cleanliness would have me dropping the pan ASAP or at least before the turbo is replaced and run.

Thanks for the advice about the oil pickup tube.

I dropped the oil pan tonight, but found the oil pickup to be in surprisingly good shape. It didn't have the ugly brazing and associated cracks like I saw on killerb's website photos. I did find one metal debris 0.5mm wide x 10mm long inside the oil pickup basket, but the rest of the oil pan looked clean.

In any case, an Ultimate Oil Pickup and new OCV's are coming via UPS tomorrow. I don't ever want to drop the oil pan or see these codes again, and I'll be sure to keep the oil level above the L mark after this.


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