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-   -   Bolt up turbocharger upgrade - Vol-1 (CLOSED) (http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119177)

Bryan@BNR 08-24-2009 02:09 PM

Bolt up turbocharger upgrade - Vol-1 (CLOSED)
 
NOTE: Due to size, this thread segment has been closed. It is continued HERE


First of all I would like to thank the LGT community for all the support. I have truely enjoyed developing a reliable replacement/upgrade for the IHI VF40 turbocharger that comes on various Subaru vehicles.

BNR Supercars is offering four 100% bolt up hybrid turbochargers for the LGT's fitted with the IHI VF40,VF46, and the VF52 (with the odd 2 bolt outlet). You don't have to upgrade your intercooler, just simply bolt it on and go. Tuning is suggested if you want to maximize your response and power output with these turbocharger upgrades. Other modifications are needed to maximize the potential of these turbochargers. If you are an enthusiest, then you already know that :D.

UPDATE:

The entry level BNR upgrade is the EVO 16G/TD05H. If you have a stock car, automatic, or a mildy modified car this one is for you. The EVO has great bottom end response, good mid range power without sacrificing power in the upper RPM's. This turbocharger is maximum rated at 38 lb/min or approximately 375 BHP.

EVO/TD05H-Price $725 USD plus shipping

The next step up is the 18G/TD05H. If your car is mildly modified, then this is probably what you are looking for. It is a turbocharger that will have a blend of good response and good power up top. You aren't going too big or too small. The 18G maximum flow rate is 41 lb/min or 400 BHP. 1 customer dynoed 335 AWHP on pump fuel with boost levels going from 20 psi falling to 17 psi at redline.

18G/TD05H-Price $775 USD plus shipping

The 3rd option is the 20G/TD05H. This turbocharger is good up to around 24 psi. After that, the turbine will not be able to keep up with the compressor wheel in flow. The compressor flows 44 lb/min, but the max power is restricted by the TD05H turbine wheel. Turbocharger max rate is 410 BHP. But on E85 at 23 psi dropping to 20 psi this turbocharger has made an incredible 384.9 AWHP at 5200 ft. elevation!

20G/TD05H-Price $825 USD plus shipping (Available as of 8/16/2010 FINALLY!)

The 4th option is the 20G/TD06 11 blade turbine. This turbocharger is capable of over 400 WHP. The restriction of the turbine wheel is no longer an issue. If you plan on 385-450 WHP, then this one is for you. I have a WRX customer that ran this same set up with a 7cm2 turbine housing, made an 11.5x quarter mile pass at 120 MPH. This unit is pretty much identicle to that, but we put a 8cm2 turbine housing on and use the 2 bolt outlet VF40 compressor cover. We also make the wastegate actuator rod adjustable so we can put more spring tension in the stock actuator to get more boost. Since the stage 3 does 385 AWHP, I can see this unit coming close to 450 AWHP.

20G/TD06 11 blade-Price $1000 USD (Available as of 8/16/2010 Finally!)


BNR Supercars/FP HTA68 TD05H combo is also available! We all know what this puppy will do! The VF40 8cm2 turbine housing will optimize power output!

Here are pictures of the BNR/HTA68!

http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost....postcount=2278


BNR/FP HTA68 TD05H-Price $975




(click the links below for comparison pictures and detailed pictures of each option)

EVO 16G/TD05H

18G/TD05H

20G/TD05H

20G/TD06 11 blade turbine

Compressor/Turbine wheel comparisons Part 1/Part 2



WARNING!!!! Purchasers must purchase a high flow/filtered oil feed line replacement kit for 1 year warranty coverage.

http://www.infamousperformance.net/servlet/the-995/IP%26T-Filtered-Turbo-Oil/Detail




DO NOT RUN MOBIL 1 engine oils! Low on Zinc content which is bad for turbochargers.


PAYMENT INFO HERE! http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost....postcount=1971


Visit us online at www.BNRsupercars.com!

Thanks for all the support. I will be glad to answer any questions you have about the product.

Bryan Nickell
President of BNR Supercars LLC
(205)640-1193

03subyR 08-24-2009 04:09 PM

What car? It's not the turbo it's the oil supply line and screen filter. If you remove it you should be ok with the turbo. The only bolt on turbo for 05-08 LGT is vf52 from 09 WRX.

AGR-LGT 08-24-2009 07:22 PM

AVO 380, The deadbolts, the ht68a, FP options

there any manybolt on turbos for our applications, but all require new fuel pump, and injectors and supporting stage 2 mods to take full advantage

PhilT 08-24-2009 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03subyR (Post 2592741)
The only bolt on turbo for 05-08 LGT is vf52 from 09 WRX.

:orly:

sleepydave 08-24-2009 09:16 PM

are you from BNR turbos? thinking of doing some legacy stuff?

That'd be awesome. I've run 12 second passes in my fc rx7 with a stage III (h-trim) BNR hybrid. Love that lil bastard.

We don't have a lot of off the shelf options anymore for the awkward comp housing, but there are a few places out there that modify the comp housings on any turbo for a few bills.

I still think it'd be nice to have some more mildly priced off the shelf options.

KurtP 08-24-2009 11:43 PM

As I look at my turbo options I'm noticng that places like to jack up the price fo legacy figment over normal ones f they even offer one. Always "well that fittng" and then a string of bs.

Scratch that. There are no turbos available. You need my car while. Am mobilized as a test vehicle for a new one. :D

on a serios note now that wrx uses our turbo fitting hopefully there will be more options.

Bryan@BNR 08-25-2009 07:54 AM

That H3 on the rotary engine does really well. I had one in my T2 RX7 for a few years and loved it. Thanks for the complement.

I am looking into doing a 100% bolt up hybrid for the legacy. Stock compressor housing. I don't know how many hybrids are out there that keep the stock housing. I know that it is a string of events (USUALLY) when you do a turbo upgrade. If the intercooler doesn't need to be replaced, why replace it?

I can't compete with FP, b/c Subaru and EVO is their main focus. I do odd ball turbos that are low production. RX7, Supra, 300ZX ect. But I am just getting other peoples opinions b/c I heard through other forums, there was a need for a "bolt up" turbo.

Bryan@BNR

KurtP 08-25-2009 08:07 AM

I sent you a PM

JoeFromPA 08-25-2009 08:07 AM

Hey Bryan,

My opinion (non-expert, running a stock LGT) is that owners say there is a need for a "bolt-up" turbo because they want to run more than 300whp on the LGT without going FMIC or doing other upgrades.

But what we are seeing is that there are a few turbos that can pretty much hit that mark (VF52 for one) on pump gas, or get very close.

But honestly, at that point the owner really needs fuel upgrades and to replace the stock intercooler anyway (since it'll blow it's end-tanks open).

So unless you've got a concept for, say, a bolt-up turbo that provides lower boost lag, faster transient response, lower boost threshold, and the same top-end as the VF52 while providing a more reliable design....

Well, I don't think you'd sell alot of them otherwise.

Personally, I'd like to see a few more ball bearing and/or twin-scroll style turbos for the LGT that offer superb low-down power (i.e. 2000 rpms) while still maintaining a good top-end (say 260-280 awhp). Right now, those turbos are damn hard to find.

Just my .02

Joe

P.s. I could be wrong, but I think a twin-scroll style turbo with great low-end power and a top-end of 280whp would be good for a ~13.2-13.5 second 1/4 mile time. I think alot of owners would be very happy with that result combined with the daily drivability.

Th3Franz 08-25-2009 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA (Post 2593429)
So unless you've got a concept for, say, a bolt-up turbo that provides lower boost lag, faster transient response, lower boost threshold, and the same top-end as the VF52 while providing a more reliable design....

Well, I don't think you'd sell alot of them otherwise.

Personally, I'd like to see a few more ball bearing and/or twin-scroll style turbos for the LGT that offer superb low-down power (i.e. 2000 rpms) while still maintaining a good top-end (say 260-280 awhp). Right now, those turbos are damn hard to find.

Everyone has their own preferences, but I disagree. I've started to look at turbo upgrades, and anything smaller than a VF52 is just too small for the 2.5L. For the goals you describe, most people would not waste their time with a turbo upgrade since you can hit close to those numbers with a custom tune stage 2 setup. With the VF40 I'm hitting 20 PSI peak at 2800 RPM and close to 280whp with a stage 2 + TMIC tune. My main issue with the VF40 is it dies so badly up top so if I red line each gear, I'm only hitting 17 psi in the next gear.

I'd love to see a company make an LGT-fitment turbo that is closer to say an HTA68 in spool and top end. We've been over the whole HTA68 vs VF52 debate before, but the top end of the HTA68 is much better with the spool being very comparable, when they are both properly tuned with comparable supporting mods. ;) I would prefer to not have a flange welded on the end of an HTA68 and have its housing cast as LGT-fitment to begin with.

Bottom line is that I would love to see some turbo options that directly compete with AVO's bolt-ons and the hybrid 18g's and 20g's, while still making peak torque around 3800 RPM. I think there are enough of us that prefer using a top mount intercooler but want to hit close to the 350whp mark on e85

Just for reference:
HTA68 vs Big 20G- TD06 8cm
**The HTA is putting less power down, but it is running less timing and boost, the point is what it can do**
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...7/HTAvs20G.jpg

tingtang 08-25-2009 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGR-LGT (Post 2592951)
AVO 380, The deadbolts, the ht68a, FP options

there any manybolt on turbos for our applications, but all require new fuel pump, and injectors and supporting stage 2 mods to take full advantage


:orly: the last time i checked the FP hta68 was not a bolt on application to the LGT... and as far as i know.. deadbolt is no longer around, and the only direct bolt on turbo's i kno of for LGT is AVO and the vf52... but in my opinion you can only get so much from our setup's... and i think the main reason to that is our limit in space for the TMIC... the TMIC can only be so big when it comes to maintaining the same setup... by that i mean turbo bolting directly on to the TMIC and then going directly into the intake manifold.... of course if you put a STI manifold you can put a STI style TMIC... but the design of our LGT application limits us.... im sure there would be ALOT more people buying AVO turbo's... because they are a direct bolt on replacement.. but no1 wants to pay the $1,800 dollar price tag that comes with them for such a mildly performing turbo....

tingtang 08-25-2009 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KurtP (Post 2593235)
As I look at my turbo options I'm noticng that places like to jack up the price fo legacy figment over normal ones f they even offer one. Always "well that fittng" and then a string of bs.

Scratch that. There are no turbos available. You need my car while. Am mobilized as a test vehicle for a new one. :D

on a serios note now that wrx uses our turbo fitting hopefully there will be more options.


that is a possibility... but i wouldnt hold your breath.... you can only get so much using our setup... its different for STI's because they can put a TMIC on thats almost as big, if not bigger than my FMIC.... thats the difference.... not sure what the biggest TMIC they make for our setup is... but im guessing that perrin is pretty close... and im not sure what kinda whp the TMIC is capable of either.. but maybe someone that has maxed out our style TMIC would chime in....

Bryan@BNR 08-25-2009 09:16 AM

Well I am glad to see there is a little interest in this set up.

I have a compressor housing here off of a Legacy. This is what I see potential wise for a 100% bolt up application. About as far as you are going to go with it being efficient is a 20G compressor wheel. Anything beyond 42-43 lb/min is going to be inefficient in the compressor housing. There is just not enough diffuser length to make say a 50 trim or other wheels similar to it work effectively with a big back disc (exducer dimension). I am looking for a 100% bolt up, no fabrication required set up that is user friendly. I don't want to break records or strive for the most power anyone has ever made with the turbo. My 3 main charactoristics for my builds are quality, reliability, and good power potential. If it doesn't have any of the 3, I will not build it.

My idea for you guys is a bolt up EVO3 16g for the guys that want response and a great streetable turbocharger. This is my absolute favorite turbo on my 1.8L 1988 Mazda 323 GTX. I run 22 psi on it daily and its an absolute blast to drive on the street. I am sure this would be one of your favorites as well :D. I ran a 7cm2 TD06H and a 50 trim for about a year. The only thing about that turbo was I really had to be bad on the car to go anywhere in 1st gear. And also if I wasn't speed shifting the boost would fall off between shifts and the car would take a few fractions of a second to get that turbo up to speed again. Just wasn't near as fun as the evo3. The evo 3 is there when you hit the gas and makes great TQ through the band.

Also the 18G is a good choice and also the 20G. So let me know some input from you guys and I would be happy to listen!

Bryan@BNR

KurtP 08-25-2009 09:38 AM

I sent you a PM with what I would want done...but essentially take the stock turbo and do what FP did with the HTA68. stuff a 47lb wheel into a 16g housing. evo3 16g isnt going to be enough of a jump up to be worth it (IMHO) compared to a vf52. Not sure what the exterior dimensions are when comparing a vf40 and a 16g....

Still, interested to see what comes out!

JoeFromPA 08-25-2009 09:56 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but on our engines, with a suitably open exhaust, you'd be hitting max boost on a 16g well under 3000 rpms (or very close to max boost), as well as great transient response and low end.

I did a quick, generic search and it seems on some Evo3 16g's you are seeing ~300+ whp on smaller displacement engines....not sure if that is pump gas.

What would you do in designing such a turbo for reliability btw? Also, do you have a price point for such a setup? Or price range?

Joe


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