Subaru Legacy Forums

Subaru Legacy Forums (http://legacygt.com/forums/index.php)
-   Naturally Aspirated Powertrains (2.5i, 3.0R, 3.6R) (http://legacygt.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=11)
-   -   Better, Faster (somewhat), Stronger! (http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198999)

ecoflame 01-02-2013 03:08 PM

Better, Faster (somewhat), Stronger!
 
In October I spun a rod bearing, cylinder 1 I believe. After much deliberation and forum browsing I have decided on my course of action;

1. I am keeping her N/A. She's going to be my DD.
2. I want to rebuild the motor I have.
3. I want to build it better than stock.
4. I want to keep all "upgrades" within the stock ECU parameters.

I have done some basic research bouncing around forums, and this is where I'm at parts wise. Of course this is speculative, and I welcome additional information or opinions. BUT PLEASE KEEP IN MIND MY 4 OBJECTIVES ABOVE.

STI oil pump or after market oil pump (I forget the name, I have it written down somewhere). Anything bigger then 7mm.
Port the oil pick up lines for smoother flow.
Eagle piston rods (they'll be needed down the road)
Pistons I'm not sure on, hoping for insight from yall.
'04-'06 EJ257/255 head gasket -p/n 11044AA642 Port and polish heads, intake and header to match.
Delta cams - stage 2 regrinds?
Valve train leave alone?
New valves and stem seals
'05 RS engine mounts, GrPN trans mount, urethane filled differential mounts. This will ease the bucking when letting off the throttle? Yes?
Hypersingle clutch with spring hub and lighter flywheel
Oh and light weight pulleys.

I welcome all opinions and advice, so what do yall think?

ripemeat 01-02-2013 03:16 PM

why?


and


who's/how are you going to tune it once you do all these mods?

it's been tried and tested to the point of diarrhea & vomiting on NASIOC and 2.5RS. building n/a subaru motors comes out to be widely not worth the cost for what you gain from it. that is why so many GC8 guys do bolt-on turbo kits at like 3psi, and why 3rd gen legacy guys do sti swaps.

FJuan 01-02-2013 03:27 PM

^^ Exactly

Without upgrading your ECU to recalculate for the additional air/fuel, the motor is going to run rougher than you think.

ecoflame 01-02-2013 03:54 PM

Why - because I don't have +8k for a STI swap. I'd like to maintain a DD aspect. And I don't feel like spending one too two months merging the two harnesses. Most of what I have compiled came from a guy on RS25 who did a N/A build and made some decent power at the wheels. Now I far from expect the output he made, he did some serious and respectable work on his ride. I just want this motor to be the best it can be.
Also I'm not a huge fan of boosting vehicles that didn't come with a stock turbo. Personal preference.

I'm trying do to as much as I can with out tuning. From what I've come to understand my ECU isn't tuneable and piggy backs just cause problems.

ecoflame 01-02-2013 03:56 PM

Also aren't the cams the only mod that would require tuning?

ripemeat 01-02-2013 05:06 PM

cams, pnp head, and pistons(which would mean your CR would probably change a little) are all issues that need to be tuned for. plus, how do you think the engine is going to make power for these mods? the engine isn't magically going to be faster with physical upgrades, you need a tune in order to allow for the performance to happen. it's just not a good thing to dump money into. you'd be better off just finding a suitable replacement and DD'ing it.

ecoflame 01-02-2013 05:41 PM

Cams and Pistons I can agree with, PnP eh I dunno about that. I'm not trying to start an argument, but how can you say the engine wouldn't be faster with physical changes??? Different cams means a longer or shorter duration of the valves opening, direct effect to performance. A change in CR, direct effect to performance. Granted you do need to tune to maximize the changes made, but to say simply changing the parts won't benefit the performance is naive. Having said that I thank you for your input. :D

compsurge 01-02-2013 06:11 PM

What you want is a completely stock engine.

</thread>

I'm not bashing you. I'm being completely serious.

If anything, get groupN motor and transmission mounts, but skip the pitch stop, as it's not any different with the groupN.

Don't get a lightweight flywheel or a crazy clutch setup on a car that doesn't need it. You will hate yourself every time you have to change gear in your daily drive.

You can't build that engine better than Subaru did, especially since you aren't going to run a standalone/tune.

lingling1337 01-02-2013 06:13 PM

Not gonna weigh in one way or the other but I would love to see this build thread

ecoflame 01-02-2013 06:47 PM

Was there a lol or Haha following the statement?

Post #75
http://www.rs25.com/forums/f145/1204...lt-dccd-8.html

ecoflame 01-02-2013 06:48 PM

Lingling about 3/4 of what I want to do came from the above thread. Happy reading! Lol.

bomberlegacy 01-02-2013 07:06 PM

I saw a show one time, they took an Impreza and put a high flow intake and exhaust on it and lost horsepower. Then had it tuned and it was well over the stock level.
Point being, our ECUs are picky and any little change in airflow needs to ecu work.

tuning all of that plus higher octane would be good plus removing the drive by wire delay is nice.
What are your plans for it in the future? All the mods you have mentioned even with a tune won't help the n/a all that much. You need forced induction.

ecoflame 01-04-2013 08:10 PM

Future plans are just keep it DD. Now if something horrible happens to the motor (knock on wood) that's opens up new options. EZ30 more then likely. I'm just trying to give her more pep in her step. Without shoving air down her throat.

bomberlegacy 01-04-2013 08:55 PM

Only my opinion, but if it is just going to be a daily driver, rebuild it without spending extra on beefy rods and pistons. Delta cams would be nice and cheap. I am not sure if the OEM valvetrain will be sufficient. Then tune it for the best gas you have in your area. The tune will make the biggest difference, performance will be worse if you don't.

Brprs 01-04-2013 10:33 PM

H6 swap. Done. The whole n/a 4 cylinder high comp bs has been beaten to death. Yes its cool to say you have a decent amount of power naturally, but you'll be out of money very fast. Being able to drive it every day comfortably is most important in a daily driver. Best to leave it as is.

GEE-OTTO 01-10-2013 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecoflame (Post 4227899)
In October I spun a rod bearing, cylinder 1 I believe. After much deliberation and forum browsing I have decided on my course of action;

1. I am keeping her N/A. She's going to be my DD.
2. I want to rebuild the motor I have.
3. I want to build it better than stock.
4. I want to keep all "upgrades" within the stock ECU parameters.

I have done some basic research bouncing around forums, and this is where I'm at parts wise. Of course this is speculative, and I welcome additional information or opinions. BUT PLEASE KEEP IN MIND MY 4 OBJECTIVES ABOVE.

STI oil pump or after market oil pump (I forget the name, I have it written down somewhere). Anything bigger then 7mm.
Port the oil pick up lines for smoother flow.
Eagle piston rods (they'll be needed down the road)
Pistons I'm not sure on, hoping for insight from yall.
'04-'06 EJ257/255 head gasket -p/n 11044AA642 Port and polish heads, intake and header to match.
Delta cams - stage 2 regrinds?
Valve train leave alone?
New valves and stem seals
'05 RS engine mounts, GrPN trans mount, urethane filled differential mounts. This will ease the bucking when letting off the throttle? Yes?
Hypersingle clutch with spring hub and lighter flywheel
Oh and light weight pulleys.

I welcome all opinions and advice, so what do yall think?

Swap in a rebuilt EJ251 :) The build idea is great but I doubt it will "wow" you as much as you think. The DD aspect is essential and a properly maintained EJ will run for 100K's of miles :)

You could also swap in a EG33D like someone mentioned above would be a great engine to run with a MT. There is a decent amount of work involved but you seem to be up for the task.

Brprs 01-10-2013 06:39 PM

Any h6. Doesnt have to be an eg33.

ecoflame 01-11-2013 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GEE-OTTO (Post 4240599)
Swap in a rebuilt EJ251 :) The build idea is great but I doubt it will "wow" you as much as you think. The DD aspect is essential and a properly maintained EJ will run for 100K's of miles :)

You could also swap in a EG33D like someone mentioned above would be a great engine to run with a MT. There is a decent amount of work involved but you seem to be up for the task.

Dude thank you for your enthusiasm! You wouldn't believe the overall cynicism I've encountered trying to get this project rolling. I would love to throw a EZ30 in to her but I've decided I don't want to mess around with merging harnesses. Honestly I'm not looking for a huge WOW factor with her, my "WOW" car is my Accord. AKA the V8 eater :cool:. I just want a lil more umpf when I accelerate through turns and curves.

GEE-OTTO 01-11-2013 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brprs (Post 4240878)
Any h6. Doesnt have to be an eg33.

Correction it should be a EG33D or a EZ30D

Skip the EZ36D for complexity sake

GEE-OTTO 01-11-2013 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecoflame (Post 4241256)
Dude thank you for your enthusiasm! You wouldn't believe the overall cynicism I've encountered trying to get this project rolling. I would love to throw a EZ30 in to her but I've decided I don't want to mess around with merging harnesses. Honestly I'm not looking for a huge WOW factor with her, my "WOW" car is my Accord. AKA the V8 eater :cool:. I just want a lil more umpf when I accelerate through turns and curves.

Nice and for a nice WOW out of a N/A H4 you could go with a EJ25 bottom end, EJ222 (thats a phase 2 EJ22 not the EJ22E version 2)heads, Delta 1500's (the 2000s aren't as "streetable"), thinner HG to bump the CR up to 10.5:1-ish and run 93 OCT, slap some EL headers on there for a few more ponies and youll have a nice screamer!

Yeah the H6 drop in would be nice but the harness merge can be mean things like making the tach work properly and speed sensors are often overlooked by folks wanting to take the swap by the horns :lol:

lingling1337 01-11-2013 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecoflame (Post 4228201)
Lingling about 3/4 of what I want to do came from the above thread. Happy reading! Lol.

No lol at all. That's another build thread ill have to read ill. Who knows you may have great results if you do it right and change people's minds

Brprs 01-11-2013 04:05 PM

Actually sell the car and pick up one the same year just with the 30D and swap gear boxes. Done and done.

ecoflame 01-11-2013 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brprs (Post 4242181)
Actually sell the car and pick up one the same year just with the 30D and swap gear boxes. Done and done.

Sell the car. HA! Right... My bank would love that!

ecoflame 01-11-2013 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GEE-OTTO (Post 4241534)
Nice and for a nice WOW out of a N/A H4 you could go with a EJ25 bottom end, EJ222 (thats a phase 2 EJ22 not the EJ22E version 2)heads, Delta 1500's (the 2000s aren't as "streetable"), thinner HG to bump the CR up to 10.5:1-ish and run 93 OCT, slap some EL headers on there for a few more ponies and youll have a nice screamer!

I was contemplating all that but I don't want to mess with tuning or swapping the ECU. There's a guy on RS25 who did all that and made one badass mofo motor. Future build maybe :icon_twis.

For now I'm just going to;
PNP the heads and header. Maybe the intake mani.
upgrade the oil pump and smooth out the oil pick/ return lines
Delta 1000 cams
and haven't fully decided about the valve train and springs.

I love these lil emoticons!

bomberlegacy 01-11-2013 06:50 PM

I decided..
3.0 H6 w/ 9psi Raptor SC & E85 fuel :)

valadares 01-12-2013 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomberlegacy (Post 4242422)
I decided..
3.0 H6 w/ 9psi Raptor SC & E85 fuel :)


agree

andnyleswillriot 01-12-2013 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valadares (Post 4243009)
agree

I forget, how much whp is your SC H6 puttin out?

GEE-OTTO 01-12-2013 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecoflame (Post 4242384)
I was contemplating all that but I don't want to mess with tuning or swapping the ECU. There's a guy on RS25 who did all that and made one badass mofo motor. Future build maybe :icon_twis.

For now I'm just going to;
PNP the heads and header. Maybe the intake mani.
upgrade the oil pump and smooth out the oil pick/ return lines
Delta 1000 cams
and haven't fully decided about the valve train and springs.

I love these lil emoticons!


It is common knowledge that head work on a EJ is VERY affective and VERY expensive :lol: so DIY PnP job would be both educational and cost effective and power yielding. Also PnP the IM is a good idea as well those casting tab are numerous no doubt a de-burring would improve flow. Once you get start throw up some pick and info about tools used for the smoothing out, Im sure many of us would like to know!

ecoflame 01-12-2013 01:03 PM

I think I should be able to accommodate your request. I actually intended to document the whole endeavor from beginning to end, it'd be my first write up. :)

TurboLag23 01-12-2013 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brprs (Post 4242181)
Actually sell the car and pick up one the same year just with the 30D and swap gear boxes. Done and done.

Is it possible to make the EZ30D mate to a manual gearbox?

I think it would be easier with an EZ30R.

Although, it should be noted that I own a 2004 Outback with an EZ30D; if there is a way to make it hook up to a manual gearbox I would be ecstatic hahahaha.

GEE-OTTO 01-12-2013 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboLag23 (Post 4243337)
Is it possible to make the EZ30D mate to a manual gearbox?

I think it would be easier with an EZ30R.

Although, it should be noted that I own a 2004 Outback with an EZ30D; if there is a way to make it hook up to a manual gearbox I would be ecstatic hahahaha.

Yup the EZ and EJ have the same bell housing pattern LGT memeber Girodisc has a H6 mated to a 3.90 5MT runs as slick as a cats ass :lol:

Brprs 01-12-2013 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboLag23 (Post 4243337)
Is it possible to make the EZ30D mate to a manual gearbox?

I think it would be easier with an EZ30R.

Although, it should be noted that I own a 2004 Outback with an EZ30D; if there is a way to make it hook up to a manual gearbox I would be ecstatic hahahaha.

Yep theres people on rs25 that have them in there RS's.

TurboLag23 01-13-2013 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GEE-OTTO (Post 4243463)
Yup the EZ and EJ have the same bell housing pattern LGT memeber Girodisc has a H6 mated to a 3.90 5MT runs as slick as a cats ass :lol:

Haha fricken Girodisc, guy's a beast! Didn't know he already had the H6 in; thought he had it as a planned build. Need to roll by that thread again


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:46 AM.



vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.6.3 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
LegacyGT.com