LeggyMom Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Hey guys, I've been doing some research on this, and yes, I have read a lot of info posted on here, but I have been having trouble wrapping my head around it all. I just put new tires on the car and took it in for an alignment because the old tires wore on the outside edges (strange I thought) so I thought it was out of whack. After an hour he came back out to tell me that my car couldn't be aligned because the lower control arm bushings were shot. He showed me and they looked bad and they flexed quite a bit with only minimal effort applied to the wheels. Anyway, he told me that he can't just replace the bushing, but that the whole control arm had to be replaced?!?! This sounded wrong to me so I jumped on the internet and found a part number from Subaru for what I thought to be the bushing. Then I found a Perrin PSRS and a Whiteline bushing that seemed to be a replacement as well. So, who is right? $150-200 for bushings seems a hell of a lot better than $600 for new control arms!! Can someone clear this up and maybe tell me the difference between the Perrin and the Whiteline bushings? I heard the Perrin ones are noisy, just how noisy are we talking? Is it better to just get the $28 rubber ones from Suby and call it a day? How hard are they to install? Thanks everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesuby Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 The bushings need to be pressed out so there's a special tool and time issue. I would not replace the bushings with a stock Subaru part because I never had to replace bushings on any other car I've owned and at 75,000 miles that's very poor reliability to me. A lot of the Perrin and Whiteline bushings change the caster angle. I selected Whitelines which maintained the stock caster angle. I had them installed at Fred Beans with a set of Konis and I'm pleased with the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dease42 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 You do NOT have to replace the LCA, but ^^ is correct, they need to be pressed in. If you want to replace just the bushings, remove the LCAs and take them and the bushings to a trusted shop or machine shop and they will press out the old ones and press in the new ones. Grease and re-install...done. The Sti front LCA bushings will fit the 05-09 legacies, and they are (from what I hear) slightly harder/stronger than the stock bushings, and very reasonably priced. Do a search on here and you should be able to find the part ##. The Perrin/Whiteline/AVO bushings are polyurethane, and will be an increase in NVH, although it isn't much in my opinion, and they all offer (I think) both stock caster and offset caster. I have the offset AVO and love them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeggyMom Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 Thank you very much for the info. I thought it seemed strange that they wanted to replace the entire arm. I know that Perrin at least offers both the 6 degree and 0 degree offset ones. I will have to research the AVO ones, I hadn't see them yet. It looked like getting the LCA's off was pretty easy on jack stands so hopefully I can find a shop that will do them while I wait. My only concern from here is that the LCAs on the spec.B are different from the ones on the regular LGT and I wonder if there is a fitment issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dease42 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 There isn't that I know of - I never saw a different part # for the spec b's in my research. I believe the only difference is the material: aluminium vs cast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 The bushing is the same between the two but yes the arm is different. I would recommend the Whiteline. The last pair of AVOs I saw were like the older whiteline bushings that they updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeggyMom Posted June 10, 2012 Author Share Posted June 10, 2012 After some research, I think I'm going to go with the Whiteline LCA bushings. Found them for $135/set and I really want to use the zero offset since I'm not going to be autocrossing this car at all. A friend of my husband said that he has a press we can use so that's good so this should be a hell of a lot cheaper fix than the $1100 the mechanic originally wanted to charge me for parts and labor on 2 new LCAs. Thanks everyone for the input. You guys saved me a ton of money and stress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjweb Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Don't like fred beans (shitty customer service), but for $9 oem is the way I went. http://www.fredbeansparts.com/index.php/subaru-legacy-gt-oem-lower-control-arm-bushings.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I used poly bushings for a month and then ditched them because of the harshness and noise. Now I use the GrpN bushings and love them. Stock comfort and much more precision. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgt_nube Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 LIC Motorsports in Novato, California, (a Subaru specialty shop) says the problem with control arm bushings is a design flaw starting in 2005 and continuing except for the later models of STi that got the ball joint suspension. They've had to replace a lot of them by now. My first set was replaced under extended warranty at 60K miles. The second set wore out and (of course) wore out the outer edges of the tires by 135K miles. I just had LIC replace them. The new ones are Whiteline ALK Comfort, made of polyurethane instead of rubber. LIC said they would produce more road noise, but I don't notice any difference in noise or comfort. Handling seems better and more controlled. Of course I got new tires and alignment at the same time. A few photos of the LGT My current ride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Just get the OE bushings, be carefull as to who presses them, you can screw up a Spec B control arm not pressing them correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobyscoodle Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I wouldn't get the OE ones. If you're going through the effort of swapping them you might as well get groupN at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I wouldn't get the OE ones. If you're going through the effort of swapping them you might as well get groupN at least. This. The GrpN parts offer around 80% of the improvement in precision and feedback you'd get from poly, but with none of the harshness or squeaking. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobyscoodle Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 The only reason I like the poly ones better is because I really like the increased caster of the offset ones. Otherwise the groupN ones provide plenty of performance for anything less than an all out track car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Yeah, the increased caster is nice, but compared to previous generations we already have a lot more. My steering pump failed within three weeks of me installing the offset bushings. I don't know if that is direct cause or just coincidence but I'm not taking the chance. Honestly, just going to a stiffer rubber bushing already improves the handling and steering so much that I can live without the extra caster. For me there were some big improvements and changes which came with the mods I did. I swapped from all stock to: Powerflex offset poly rear bushing WL poly front bushing WL poly steering rack bushing That was a huge change in several aspects: 1. Improved steering response, steering ratio seems higher 2. Less bump steer 3. Wheels stay pointed where you want over bumps in turns, rather than wander around 4. Stiffer steering, requires more effort at the wheel 5. More NVH 6. Squeaking over bumps like an old jalopy Removing the offset poly bushings and going to the GrpN parts lost me some of #1 and 3, and all of #4, 5 and 6. The other day at the track I thought to myself I sure wish I'd left the offset bushings on the car. For the 300km round trip, I was glad they're under my bench instead. I might be getting old. My wife usually picks up on small increases in NVH from my mods while I think it's fine. This time she didn't notice but I couldn't stand that damn squeaking or the banging from square-edged bumps. YMMV and all that... Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobyscoodle Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I hear ya. I never really had any poly squeaking issues aside from swaybar bushings, but nvh was increased. I was running the offset bushings combined with GTWORX camber plates on my tarmacs, which also add caster. I was at around 7.8 degrees of caster in the front and I loved the way that felt. I never drove it with non offset bushings and the camber plates though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 We've installed a ton of whiteline units on soccer moms leggies. They are a great replacement and will outlast those oem ones. Shoot us a pm or email and we can ship em out! We are an authorized whiteline dealer so they carry the full whiteline warranty. -mike http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpghttp://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/141039922.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://upload.pbase.com/image/137566671.jpg 11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts. Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us. AIM: AZP Installs | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.2971 | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Just get the OE bushings, be carefull as to who presses them, you can screw up a Spec B control arm not pressing them correctly. Can u elaborate on this? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgt_nube Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 It's now a month later, and I still don't notice any increased road noise or other noise on bumps. LIC Motorsports in Novato, California, (a Subaru specialty shop) says the problem with control arm bushings is a design flaw starting in 2005 and continuing except for the later models of STi that got the ball joint suspension. They've had to replace a lot of them by now. My first set was replaced under extended warranty at 60K miles. The second set wore out and (of course) wore out the outer edges of the tires by 135K miles. I just had LIC replace them. The new ones are Whiteline ALK Comfort, made of polyurethane instead of rubber. LIC said they would produce more road noise, but I don't notice any difference in noise or comfort. Handling seems better and more controlled. Of course I got new tires and alignment at the same time. A few photos of the LGT My current ride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeggyMom Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 Thank you for the update. I got the Whiteline adjustable bushings and will get them installed when I do the CV axles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeggyMom Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 Can u elaborate on this? From what I understand, you need to press out the support ring that is pressed into the aluminum arm. If you don't use the EXACT correct sized press, you can score and damage the hole that the bushings go into and when you try to press the new ones in, they will not stay in place and may rotate or just come out. Also, I understand that it's VERY easy to mess this up. I contacted my local Suby dealer and they said that if I bring them the arms and the bushings, they would press the old ones out and the new ones in for $120. Sounded like a good deal considering that I know for a FACT that they will have correct sized press tool and will hopefuly do a good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 $120 seems a bit high for about an hours worth of work. Just my opinion. We usually charge about $50 to press in/out LCA bushings for folks at our shop. -mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Those Perrin PSRS bushings are not for a daily driver, trust me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heedz Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I installed offsetted PSRS's and yeah wouldn't recommend them if you want quiet but if you want every bit of performance, do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT Daddy Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 This has been a educational. I will be needing new LCA bushing in the near future as mine are on the way out. I will get the WL since I am already running the WL f/r SB's. Thanks OP and the rest with the good information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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