hows this log look?

[timbo7]

I tried romraider for the first time today. I think I did it right but Im unsure on how to read it. Im all stock except a avo panel filter. If I did something incorrect or didnt select the right parameters let me know and ill do another. Im planning on getting a stage 1 OTS map shortly and wanted to make sure all is good to go. This was the last one I did. Not sure if I did it right or not. TIA

romraiderlog_20120515_163728.csv

[bnguyenbb6]

A few things...get a wideband O2 sensor or atleast log "AF Sensr #1", AFR is very important. AF correction is not needed for WOT logs(AF correction is for closed loop fueling/cruising, light driving). Do a WOT pull from 2000rpm to redline if you want to see how your car is at high loads. Boost should be "Manifold Pressure Relative 4 byte(psi relative)". FLKC and FBKC should also be the 4byte parameters. IAT isn't really needed either, not logging it will allow you to log even faster.

 

Like NSFW's "How to make useful logs", you need to log to look for something. Do purposeful logs, it helps cut down on time making and looking at logs.

[iNVAR]

He really doesn't need a wideband; he's stock, it's most likely fine.

 

AF Sensor #1 will only read down to about 11 and then if the car runs richer than that, it won't read any lower making it effectively useless at WOT.

 

As far as AF correction being "needed" for the logs, it's technically not needed for either CL or OL logging unless you want to actively watch the fuel trims adjust themselves realtime instead of having to keep pulling a LearningView.

 

But I'm a bit concerned about what you said here. "AF correction is for closed loop fueling/cruising, light driving". If I'm interpreting what you're saying correctly, that is not true. AF correction (and more specifically Trim D, which for most people is 40+ g/s) carries directly over into OL, so it's very relevant.

 

As far as not needing to log IAT, I've been told the same thing by various people too but in my experience, I have to strongly disagree. I find that logging IAT gives you a fuller picture of what's going on with the engine. A car that's been heatsoaked sitting in traffic for 30 minutes on a hot summer day in Arizona is going to behave horribly with regards to spool and without IAT you have absolutely no way of knowing what the conditions are.

 

His logging interval is already 47ms. I think in general any logging interval under 100ms or so is already excellent so he has a lot of wiggle room. I log about 18 different parameters sometimes and I maintain a logging interval of 90ms. When I'm dialing in my tune for specific things, I get more specific with the parameters and reduce the interval to 75-80. Again, that's just my opinion but remember, RR didn't used to have a fast polling option and people got along fine with 250-300ms logging intervals. The AP still does if I'm not mistaken.

 

Please do read the the "how to make useful logs" thing that he suggested though, and also pull a LV for us. Your logging interval is fine, but isn't very useful as far as content and driving style. Your LV + a pull in 3rd from 2k-red will probably tell us more about the health of things than anything else, unless you have reason to believe you should be looking at other things.

[bnguyenbb6]

I know, I've been spoiled with fast polling and I'm a bit of a snob because of it . I love the high resolution...4x the resolution of the old logging and Cobb AP logging.

 

As far as IAT, I log it a lot actually because I run a blow thru set up but I've found it to be very consistent(very repeatable) so I don't log it all the time. depending on the ambient temp, I can usually guess what it is +/-10*F.

 

My ol/cl transition is controlled by the fuel table and once the D range(40+) its already in OL. My D range is usually 0 on the LV. Its like my car just skips over it. I apologize if this is abnormal, I've been ignoring it because its never not 0 unless I have a leak.

 

I use AF Correction with the other CL parameters. I just like seeing what the averaged corrections are at each MAFv, not a combined/averaged/general. My LV is -2 across A,B,C but the logged AF Correction shows 1% or even 0-.5% in alot of areas. Why touch spots of the maf that you don't need to? Also, I'm done dialing in CL so, do I really need AF Correction? You do make a good point about the D range but I still don't necessarily see the need. There will always be some sort of AFR error during transitions.

 

I will admit that I'm also a noob but I've been forced to learn quickly with the custom BT set up+non-stock injectors. If you could expand on IAT, that'd be great. I was always under the assumption that IAT changed the density of the air, which would show a change in flow at the MAF already. I thought IAT is usually used to pull timing at really high IAT's.

[timbo7]

OK I'm going to try to do another run with rr. Can someone post a link for the different things to log.

 

I don't really know anything about tuning. I just was wondering if everything looked okay so I could order the tune. I tried searching for the different parameters to log and those were the ones I found. I'll put a learning view too when I get a chance. Thanks for the help guys. I appreciate it.

[bnguyenbb6]

http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic5384.html?hilit=injector%20duty%20cycle

[iNVAR]

My ol/cl transition is controlled by the fuel table and once the D range(40+) its already in OL. My D range is usually 0 on the LV. Its like my car just skips over it. I apologize if this is abnormal, I've been ignoring it because its never not 0 unless I have a leak.

In most LGTs, I believe the transition occurs somewhere generally around the 50-55g/s range, but it's not impossible to see the transition as high as 60g/s. It's a combination of a few things as you already know, but that's usually the trend. So Trim D has the opportunity to learn between 40g/s and 55g/s roughly. If you're always zerod and it transitions immediately at 40g/s, that's weird.

 

Hrm, that's... not normal, but I guess it's fine if you have a wideband and you're verifying that that it's correct.

 

But I did warn BMX about the dangers of having a "useless" Trim D before. Namely that it's not just a fuel economoy issue but also a safety mechanism. Supposing your car begins suffering from some ailment (vacuum leak) that affects your fueling across all ranges. ABC will all begin compensating but because D is effectively disabled and NEVER learns, you will NEVER compensate for that ailment. I imagine this could be quite destructive in OL especially under WOT.

 

I will admit that I'm also a noob but I've been forced to learn quickly with the custom BT set up+non-stock injectors. If you could expand on IAT, that'd be great. I was always under the assumption that IAT changed the density of the air, which would show a change in flow at the MAF already. I thought IAT is usually used to pull timing at really high IAT's.

You're right, it does, but it's not just a matter of that. It's a matter of how much easier cold air is compressed than hot air. Hot air is significantly more difficult to compress than cold air.

 

Look under the WGDC section of your ROM and you'll see a 2D IAT compensation table that affects both Initial WGDC and Max WGDC. Stock has values dialed in to pull WGDC for below 68 degrees and absolutely no compensation for above 68 degrees to add back in WGDC. This is probably safer but you'll obviously spool slower and produce less boost as a result. I've dialed in the table to add WGDC when it starts getting hotter so that WGDC can still be high enough and not be capped out by the Max. Of course, after doing this, I log to make sure that I'm producing that boost at those temperatures safely.

 

I'm just an amateur too, passing on some things I've learned in the last year of tweaking my own tune.

[bmx045]

From what I've discovered, written by mickeyd himself, to use LV as a more effective way to visualize trims right up until the OL transition, closer than the typical learning D 40g/s, so that you can reduce possible spikes/dip in your scaling (i suppose you could interpolate it as well)

 

1. Change WGDC to zero to prevent blowing up engine.

2. Change CL/OL delay to half the stock value.

3. Change AFR Learning d to 70+ g/s and AFR Learning C to 60-70 g/s.

4. Cruise on the freeway at high speed.

5. Change the MAF scale between 70-80 based upon AFR learning D.

6. Change the MAF scale between 60-70 based upon AFR Learning C.

7. Cruise on the freeway at highway speed.

 

NSFW:

 

The stock o2 sensor seems to be accurate up until over 65g/s thus changing the range values allows for a more accurate depiction of what the ecu is doing to compensate for maf scaling, up to 65g/s, regardless of CL/OL status. Changes are still made to OL based on earlier trims thus can give you a better "view" of the adjustments being made up to that range.

 

I suppose, this breaks up the scale into 2 sections, CL and OL. leaving learning D at 40g/s+ leaves a gap between 40 and OL switch. Extending it out give you a better idea through LV what your first half of the scale looks like, and some OL trim adjustments too.

 

I've found that doing it this way (and it took me like, weeks, to get my aem with 850's done right, and a 20g with its spool characteristics) and found that cutting the scale in half and doing the LV scale part with the above ranges input, and then interpolate the second half of the scale with excel to ensure dips or spikes aren't present, if that's okay, make small general corrections all the way up to the g/s point you left off when CL scaling. I started with a stock maf scale and worked from there, the OL was easier to tune than CL and i think its because of the slow spool characteristics of my 20g....

[timbo7]

Man you guys are confusing! I dont have a clue what your talking about any more. Hopefully I can do a pull in the next few hours and hope its better this time.

[bnguyenbb6]

Sorry for stealing your thread. Just follow NSFW's guide to logs and you'll be good to go. It'll be much easier to analyze logs if you follow the guide.

[timbo7]

Sorry for stealing your thread. Just follow NSFW's guide to logs and you'll be good to go. It'll be much easier to analyze logs if you follow the guide.

 

 

Thats ok. Its pretty clear I have a lot to learn...

 

I just did this so hopefully its a better log.

 

Heres my latest LV as well.

romraiderlog_20120516_172802.csv

LearningView_5-8-2012 4 12 07 PM.csv

[bmx045]

looks good, knock sum increments 1 but your learning view shows no learned knock which is good. your idle fuel trims are slightly off (9.4) and you're running leaner than expected there. the ecu is needing to add 9.4% more fuel to reach an AFR of stoich 14.7. the cobb stage maps are made for a completely stock intake system down to the filter, anything but this can cause this siutation or you may have a small vacuum leak, after the maf, boost leak test will determine that. search and you will find.

[timbo7]

looks good, knock sum increments 1 but your learning view shows no learned knock which is good. your idle fuel trims are slightly off (9.4) and you're running leaner than expected there. the ecu is needing to add 9.4% more fuel to reach an AFR of stoich 14.7. the cobb stage maps are made for a completely stock intake system down to the filter, anything but this can cause this siutation or you may have a small vacuum leak, after the maf, boost leak test will determine that. search and you will find.

 

Thanks. Glad it looks good. I'll look into the boost leak test. I searched around for a loose hose and couldn't find any. I have an avo filter. I plan on getting the ots map from infamous so he says he'll take that into account. Do you think that will make it look better as far as the fuel trims? Probably a good idea to post a after tune log as well?

[bmx045]

That filter will contribute to the lean trims. You arent gaining anything by having that filter.

[bmx045]

He will adjust your maf scaling so your ecu doesnt have to compensate after the fact (like it is now). But you wont gain anything from it with the tune.

[iNVAR]

looks good, knock sum increments 1 but your learning view shows no learned knock which is good.

I have to disagree. Just because you don't see any FLKC during a WOT log doesn't mean it's not real knock that you should be concerned with. FBKC is just as bad.

 

If you look at his ignition total timing, 2 degrees is pulled. He should do another few pulls to see. Would also help to log FBKC (4-byte) and FLKC (4-byte). He can spare the logging resolution. 48ms log interval is already really, really good.

[bmx045]

yes, he should have logged flkc and fbkc...... it's cobb ots, wouldn't be surprised if it knocks.

[iNVAR]

No, he's bone stock except for a panel filter.

[bmx045]

i didn't read.

[timbo7]

OK I'll make another log and add the parameters you guys suggested. Should I keep the avo and have infamous tune for it? I like it cause I can just clean it instead of buying a new one.

[iNVAR]

I used to have an AVO panel filter. Guess where it is now? Garbage.

 

Also, add in IAM (2-byte) should be fine.

 

And use Manifold Relative Pressure (4-byte).

 

Remember, some of these parameters won't show up until you're actually connected.

[timbo7]

I used to have an AVO panel filter. Guess where it is now? Garbage.

 

Also, add in IAM (2-byte) should be fine.

 

And use Manifold Relative Pressure (4-byte).

 

Remember, some of these parameters won't show up until you're actually connected.

 

What filter are you using now? Just a cheap paper one from autozone or is there a better brand?

 

I'll post another log shortly.

[timbo7]

Heres the latest stuff. I had bought a paper filter before and my trim levels dropped a bit. Should I put it back in or is there most likely a leak somewhere? Ive looked on several occasions and couldnt find any hoses but I can check againb. Is there a popular one that pops off or cracks?

romraiderlog_20120517_155617.csv

[iNVAR]

That is the current LV with the AVO panel filter on it?

 

I'd say you have a leak somewhere. And you also have a consistent/reproducable knock at 6000 RPM in the 1.9 load range. These could be related. Take care of the leak first before you do any more WOT driving.

 

Check all vacuum hoses, make sure your clamps are tight (but not overtightened). Since you replaced the air filter yourself, you had to have shifted things around. Check that whole area. Did you remove the MAF? Was it reinstalled properly? Gasket ok?

 

Also, often times the hoses under the TMIC pop off (there's a blue T valve) but that's more common for stage 2 cars due to higher boost and it would cause you to throw a CEL most likely, and also have driveability symptoms that you would've noticed on your own (bad idle, etc.).

[timbo7]

That is the current LV with the AVO panel filter on it?

 

I'd say you have a leak somewhere. And you also have a consistent/reproducable knock at 6000 RPM in the 1.9 load range. These could be related. Take care of the leak first before you do any more WOT driving.

 

Check all vacuum hoses, make sure your clamps are tight (but not overtightened). Since you replaced the air filter yourself, you had to have shifted things around. Check that whole area. Did you remove the MAF? Was it reinstalled properly? Gasket ok?

 

Also, often times the hoses under the TMIC pop off (there's a blue T valve) but that's more common for stage 2 cars due to higher boost and it would cause you to throw a CEL most likely, and also have driveability symptoms that you would've noticed on your own (bad idle, etc.).

 

Thanks. Yes it was with the AVO filter. The previous LV was with a cheap paper filter (STP) I think it was. I got it at AutoZone. I guess Ill take a look tomorrow and see if I can find anything again.Ill also switch back to the paper filter. Im pretty sure I put it all back together correctly. Theres not a trick to it or something? I removed the MAF sensor before to clean it. Its just those two little screws so Im pretty sure that in right.

 

When I looked around before the one hose was sort of folded inside its self. I fixed that. Its the one on the right of the intercooler. Ive attached a picture of what im talking about.