branab3 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I am sure that my suspisions are correct, but I have to throw this in here. Today While driving in the heavy rain, my car just acted like I all in the sudden was carrying a lead brick in the back and very little power. The rain may be incidental, but there is no turbo "woosh" noise and I suspect the wastegate is froze shut? There is basically no boost. However, the car still drives and idles smooth. Now, this same car lost 1st gear, and I am replacing the tranny very soon, so I have been already driving the car all week starting out in 2nd gear, so to hav ethis happen basically renders my car undrivable, when it rains it pours. Tha car just broke 135K when it happened-spooky! LOL Part II, when I got home and opened the hood, there was a smell of burning oil and hot coolant, neither are present in the engine bay leaking, seeping or other wise. My upper and lower radiator hoses are very swollen too, not to the point of exploding, but very firm, and swelling near where the hose meets the radiator and clamp. I am suspecting multiple problems, head gasket, bad waste gate. With the car still able to start and run, that means the turbo shaft isn't broke right? So lack of boost could be explained how? Any help is good, I am already tapped on budget for trans, now I am not sure what else I have to do and I don't expect anyone here to "fix" my problem over the internet, but if these things have happened to anyone else, what did you do to fix it? Sorry, mostly venting, it has been a bad week for me and my LGT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCASEYS Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 did you get a CEL? check your TB hose on the TMIC TGV's stuck closed? I donated to LegacyGT.com which allows me to have this nifty signature. If anything SCASEYS posts ever becomes a sticky i'm gonna light this whole place on fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branab3 Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 did you get a CEL? check your TB hose on the TMIC TGV's stuck closed? Sorry dude, but all that is Greek? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCASEYS Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 CEL=check engine light TB=throttle body- attaches to the coldside of the TMIC TMIC=top mount intercooler TGV= tumbler generator valves, can get stuck closed causing power loss I donated to LegacyGT.com which allows me to have this nifty signature. If anything SCASEYS posts ever becomes a sticky i'm gonna light this whole place on fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branab3 Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 No, CEL's, temp on guage is normal, not sure where the TGV is but I have not checked any hoses to see if a loss of vacuum is present, the car is hot and just pulled in, I was gonna drink a 12 pack and get at it, just kidding, but it HAS been that kind of day! LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branab3 Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 The car runs smooth as silk other than no boost, no misses, non choppy idle, under acceleration it lurched a bit, but otherwise very consistent smooth running other than no boost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branab3 Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 TMIC has water in it. It came pouring out when I seperated it from the engine. It is still draining............. It is not coolant, but outside rain water, clear. So I guess the heavy rain did have something to do with it, but now, where did it get in? If it has a hole in it, then wouldn't it idle funny, or not at all? I have the stock air box and it is relatively free of water, just some moisture, I did remove the air baffle box a long time ago, and never had this problem, have driven in rain worse than this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCASEYS Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 do you have the stock airbox or did you switch to a CAI=cold air intake? I donated to LegacyGT.com which allows me to have this nifty signature. If anything SCASEYS posts ever becomes a sticky i'm gonna light this whole place on fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegacyDan Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 im guessing your plastic end tanks on your tmic are leaking and water somehow got in, i hope water didn't get in past the throttle body as thats not good, maybe do an oil change and check for water in it or abnormal discoloration in it or maybe water got in through the intake if you went through deep water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branab3 Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 im guessing your plastic end tanks on your tmic are leaking and water somehow got in, i hope water didn't get in past the throttle body as thats not good, maybe do an oil change and check for water in it or abnormal discoloration in it or maybe water got in through the intake if you went through deep water There is water pooled up in the Throttle Body hose, Not sure if it got past that, but I have to beleive it did, there is really no major signs of water before the TMIC, so maybe the plastic tanks are leaking? There was a lot of water on the engine cover by the TMIC when I took it off. SCASEYS, I have the factory Air Box with a K&N panel filter, the air box was pretty dry with the exception of moisture in the top, no standing water in the box though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCASEYS Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 my guess is the water got in thru the hood scoop, which is normal however to fill it....wow I donated to LegacyGT.com which allows me to have this nifty signature. If anything SCASEYS posts ever becomes a sticky i'm gonna light this whole place on fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branab3 Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 my guess is the water got in thru the hood scoop, which is normal however to fill it....wow I know, I have driven in Mosoons before and never had a problem, I shop cvac'ed the intercooler and removed any more water, cleared it from the Throttle body hose (Small pool of water) while I had a vacuum on the TMIC, I checked for leaks, it is tight, so the mystery continues, where di it come from, it has to be the TMIC, because the only traces of water were in line after it, so, I am cleaning everything and putting it together, hopefull I will make boost , if not, then something else. I think the lack of boost was due to a vacuum loss and the bypass valve wouldnt open up to allow boost, only speculating, by the way, I checked the blow off and it was damp, but moving, so I dont think any damage happened there. There just must have been enough water to lose vacuum, but enough air space to allow the engine to run. Wierd. Fingers crossed, we are good, I shall report again soon Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branab3 Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 also, putting in upper cylinder lube to help on the next start up, just in case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 You should zip tie all the vacume hoses while the tmic is off, if it's not to late. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branab3 Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 It's back together and drove around the block, still no boost, but a slightly noticeable rattling noise coming from the turbo area, I don't think its tha Catalytic convertor shield, and the wastegate armature would not move under load, I'm losing it, this car...............is going to make me nucking futs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branab3 Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 You should zip tie all the vacume hoses while the tmic is off, if it's not to late. zip tie to secure? or to block off vacuum? if I am blocking vacuum, what will be the results? Is that a test? If you are saying it to secure them, that I understand, but they were all tight and in place when I just took it all apart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 To Secure, they will blow off over time, most of us have learned that the hard way. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branab3 Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 I think the turbo is borked, should I replace with the factory issue or go with the VF52? I think? What is my best situation to replace this and the TMIC, since it let water in once, it will again, and it is time to upgrade anyway. I guess mine made it to the 135K club before letting go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branab3 Posted January 12, 2013 Author Share Posted January 12, 2013 Yep! Turbo shaft is in two pieces! I talked to Bryan at BNR and I will most likely be doing his 16G upgrade in the VF40 housing. Along with a map from someone he recommended. I also found alot of chocoalte milk in the PCV tubes throughout the upper end of the engine, so I will do head gaskets while the engine is half apart. All of it was going through the intake tube at the turbo too, so the turbo was sucking down chocolate milk. Crankcase oil looks good, so they are not mixing, I assume the water (chocolate milk) is from today's water injection, though I saw no sign of water before the TMIC. I want to install a Perrin TMIC also, to eleiminate the posibilities of my end tanks failing causing the water leak today. Will also be doing a timing belt and water pump since it is down anyway and the timing belt has to come off for the head gaskets. What else? besides the obvious when doing head gaskets? SPT intake? Any other suggestions are appreciated! If I am going to do this work, I want to do some upgrades while it is apart, nothing serious, no fuel pump/injector changes, just modest improvements over factory, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMER DOWN Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Unless you want more intake sound keep OEM air box. IIRC it be posted here to be go for over 300whp. Have would replace a Turbo Inlet Hose (TIH). They deteriorate over time and rip very easy a the turbo connection. It mite be where the water came from. Mine ripped when I loosen the clamp that hold the TIH to the turbo. It's always a good idea to have a spare when removing the OEM one. If you don't have a another vehicle to drive. Get the most out of your 16g. I would replace the catted OEM Up Pipe (UP) with a catless UP & the OEM Down Pipe (DP) with a 3" high flow catted DP. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/turboi-wiki-twist-178684.html Mike Mileage:331487 Retired/Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Doh, that sucks, losing the turbo. Hope it works out well for you. Just wanted to step in and correct you: I think you have a misconception of how the turbo works in relation to wastegate and the bypass valve. If the wastegate were stuck shut, your turbo would develop more boost as the wastegate being shut forces more exhaust through the turbine. The wastegate also isn't controlled by vacuum. It's controlled by boost. The natural state of the wastegate is to be shut because there's a spring on the actuator. When your turbo develops boost, your ECU starts measuring manifold pressure (boost) and controls your boost control solenoid which bleeds some of that boost into your wastegate. The boost pressure (from your turbo) literally pushes against the wastegate actuator which forces open the WG door, which lets exhaust bypass your turbine, which slows the turbo down, which in turn reduces boost pressure. This really has nothing to do with your bypass or blowoff valve either. The BPV/BOV is there for when your throttle plate closes. The boost that was already in your throttle body hose slams into the plate, which causes a backsurge of boost pressure. The BPV/BOV then opens up from the excess pressure and vents; otherwise, the pressure would travel back up and hit your turbo and send a shock to it, or even cause turbo stall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
06silvarubiLGT Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 you need to stop driving this thing. It might be saveable, but wont be if you continue to drive it with a broken snail!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
06silvarubiLGT Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 damn, while I was typing the word got answers!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branab3 Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 you need to stop driving this thing. It might be saveable, but wont be if you continue to drive it with a broken snail!!! No, it was broke. When I took it out, the exhaust side was flopping around in the housing, but the intake side was still moving relativley good, but was rubbing on the housing. So it is broke. New one on order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branab3 Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 Doh, that sucks, losing the turbo. Hope it works out well for you. Just wanted to step in and correct you: I think you have a misconception of how the turbo works in relation to wastegate and the bypass valve. If the wastegate were stuck shut, your turbo would develop more boost as the wastegate being shut forces more exhaust through the turbine. The wastegate also isn't controlled by vacuum. It's controlled by boost. The natural state of the wastegate is to be shut because there's a spring on the actuator. When your turbo develops boost, your ECU starts measuring manifold pressure (boost) and controls your boost control solenoid which bleeds some of that boost into your wastegate. The boost pressure (from your turbo) literally pushes against the wastegate actuator which forces open the WG door, which lets exhaust bypass your turbine, which slows the turbo down, which in turn reduces boost pressure. This really has nothing to do with your bypass or blowoff valve either. The BPV/BOV is there for when your throttle plate closes. The boost that was already in your throttle body hose slams into the plate, which causes a backsurge of boost pressure. The BPV/BOV then opens up from the excess pressure and vents; otherwise, the pressure would travel back up and hit your turbo and send a shock to it, or even cause turbo stall. This is my first turbo car, but I do understand the function of the system, maybe I just explained it wrong, was a little pissed off and not much coniuity to my ramblings, but I do appreciate the quick tutorial, I do need that sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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