Hard to downshift - 2nd and 4th

[cyked]

Hi All. I bought a 2010 2.5i Legacy 6MT from CarMax in late Jan with 94k miles. Car mfg date is 09/09. The test drive was short, as they usually are, but went well.

 

I live in northern california where recently the low temps are around 40-50 F in the morning. I let the car warm up at least 5 min in the drive way, definately not leaving until the low temp indicator light is off. I mention this because colder weather definately impacts how a car can drive. But I've lived here for 10 years and had two other MT cars and have NOT had similiar issues.

 

The issue I'm noticing is difficulting downshifting to 4th and 2nd. I've had no other issues around the clutch or tranny since I got the car. No clutch smell, no slipping, grinding, chatter, clunks etc. Upshifting is fine, the only roughness felt being in the linkage (IMO) shifting to 6th. But really not a problem.

 

I'm not downshifting where it would put me at 5k RPMs or anything like that. Normal city driving, I'm not beating on the car at all. When pulling down into 2nd or 4th downshifting, its like pulling against a wall. If I force it, again no grinding, no clunking or anything like that. Now as the car warms up it gets better, but really its not noticeable better until driving for around 30 minutes. Trying to rev a bit before downshifting doesn't seem to help.

 

I know the tranny was rebuilt in 2012 at around 40k miles under warranty. Replaced all bearings, synchros, seals, etc. According to the service history the tranny fluid hasn't been changed since the rebuild.

 

I called CarMax Thursday, and took it in yesterday. I will say that between that time, 2nd gear downshift has been infinately better. No real change in 4th. Trouble is, the high temps have been 65-70 since Friday. So I took it in yesterday, having driven the car 40+ minutesto get there I could only describe the issue try and replicate with a mechanic for a short drive. Of course it mostly behaved given lenth of time driven.

 

CarMax basically said no issue found after checking out the car and their own test drive. He told me they checked what they could with the clutch, linkage, etc. and chalked it up as "normal condition for year, make , model, mileage."

 

At this point the 30 day warranty provided by CarMax would be up 2/26. My plan is to change the tranny fluid and see if I notice any difference. I checked the dipstick on the diff and it was right at the "low line". I mentioned this to the mechanic but it never came up again.

 

Am I being crazy/paranoid, and shouldn't worry unless I notice at least one other issues indicating something wrong with the tranny or clutch?

[FJuan]

Yes, change the trans fluid first, it almost sound like pervious owner didn't use the proper fluid. You'll need to get the OEM Subaru trans fluid, most of the store bought fluids don't work well with these trans. I know, been down that road before.

 

Subaru high performance gear oil - Extra S

[cyked]

Yes, change the trans fluid first, it almost sound like pervious owner didn't use the proper fluid. You'll need to get the OEM Subaru trans fluid, most of the store bought fluids don't work well with these trans. I know, been down that road before.

 

Thanks for the reply. I haven't read much up on it yet, but saw a few posts in regards to "cocktail" blends for tranny/diff. I assume I just need to change the fluids and go 100% OEM Subaru fluid?

[FJuan]

Thanks for the reply. I haven't read much up on it yet, but saw a few posts in regards to "cocktail" blends for tranny/diff. I assume I just need to change the fluids and go 100% OEM Subaru fluid?

 

Correct, I've heard mixed reviews on the cocktail blend and it seems to work well with some, but not with all. I edited my post above to the OEM Subaru brand.

[cyked]

Correct, I've heard mixed reviews on the cocktail blend and it seems to work well with some, but not with all. I edited my post above to the OEM Subaru brand.

 

The CVTs are automatic transmission only right?

[FJuan]

You stated 6mt, you will need the Subaru Extra S.

 

CVTs are considered autos.

[cyked]

You stated 6mt, you will need the Subaru Extra S.

 

CVTs are considered autos.

 

Should I worry about changing the fluid in the rear diff at this time? Wondering if I gain anything (noting a change in how it shifts) by changing the transmission fluid first.

[FJuan]

It wouldn't hurt, especially if you don't know when it was done last. The rear diff only takes less than a quart to change.

[cyked]

It wouldn't hurt, especially if you don't know when it was done last. The rear diff only takes less than a quart to change.

 

Given that when I did check the tranny fluid it was right at the low line (and knowing a Subaru dealer did the tranny work under warranty) I'll pick up a bottle of the Extra S and get the level closer to center of low/full. Note any changes in driving/shifting. Then move onto changing the tranny fluid, again checking for changes, and lastly drain the rear diff and refill.

 

Thanks for your help and input on this. I really appreciate it.

[GTEASER]

Our 6MT in the 5th Gen Legacy really needs the tranny fluid changed every 30k miles. It becomes noticeably harder to shift when cold when you get to about 20k miles on the fluid. As Fjuan mentioned, you want to use the Subaru Extra-S synthetic fluid. Alternately, and what I use is Motul Gear300.

[cyked]

Our 6MT in the 5th Gen Legacy really needs the tranny fluid changed every 30k miles. It becomes noticeably harder to shift when cold when you get to about 20k miles on the fluid. As Fjuan mentioned, you want to use the Subaru Extra-S synthetic fluid. Alternately, and what I use is Motul Gear300.

 

I know this isn't a real test, fluid on the dipstick does look super clean. Obviously wouldn't know until I've drained it to look, and checking for shavings on the magnet.

[GTEASER]

Change the tranny fluid ASAP and see what the result is. If the fluid looks new, chances are somebody just put some generic dino 75W-90 gear oil in it recently and the synchros don't like it. Again, these trannys are finicky and generic dino oil just won't work, get yourself some Motul or Extra-S, they are synthetic.

[FJuan]

^^Yup.

 

I tried several different store bought fluids and they did not work. I too had problems with my 2nd and 4th gears. Once I switch back to Extra-S everything was back to normal.

[cyked]

I'm not following. Everything I'm reading on subura sites, amazon, etc, says the Subaru Extra-S 75W90 is non-synthetic.

[FJuan]

I'm not following. Everything I'm reading on subura sites, amazon, etc, says the Subaru Extra-S 75W90 is non-synthetic.

 

From my knowledge, the Extra-S is not synthetic, but it's the fluid that you will need regardless.

[GTEASER]

Extra-S was just reformulated a few years ago. I believe it is a synthetic blend.

 

http://www.subaruofglendale.net/los-angeles-subaru-extra-s-full-synthetic-gear-oil-parts-special.htm

[FJuan]

Meh, false advertising.

[cyked]

Dealer told me on the phone its full synth. I'll just pick up 4 qts of the HP 75W-90 from the local subie dealer and change it.

[GTEASER]

Might as well get another quart for the rear diff while you're at it. You also need a drain plug gasket for the tranny and a Torx T70 socket.

[cyked]

Might as well get another quart for the rear diff while you're at it. You also need a drain plug gasket for the tranny and a Torx T70 socket.

 

just ordred on amazon prime, so should have the socket by the weekend. hell, I can get the fluid on amazon too.

[cyked]

Another question. I have ramps for oil changes. No jack. Should I worry about fluid drain on an incline?

[Max Capacity]

I'm guessing yes. The tranny should be flat. FWIW, the 5mt need to be nose down to drain completely.

 

Also off topic but, don't let the car idle to warm up start it and drive it easy till the blue light goes out.

 

I almost never let my cars warm up. This weekend we'll have minus tamps in the teens.

[GTEASER]

Another question. I have ramps for oil changes. No jack. Should I worry about fluid drain on an incline?

 

You don't want it on an incline, you want it as level as possible so that the draining fluid washes particles out. Also, its possible to overfill which can happen on an incline.

[orndog]

Just my 02 based on my last MT Subaru... but that's not a "low" line is it? Isn't that the cold line and the upper is the hot line?

[cyked]

Ok, so I just went out to the car and took some pics.

 

dipstick

http://i.imgur.com/jxgfk8s.jpg

 

 

closeup of dipstick

http://i.imgur.com/a6U0Ls8.jpg

low and full

 

tranny fluid, looks pretty clean to me, but again this is from the dipstick

http://i.imgur.com/pVFdhG4.jpg

 

 

underside of the dipstick. to me this looks like from it being dropped, or pushed against metal (putting it back in).

http://i.imgur.com/V5p87dm.jpg

 

 

 

Where i park at work is a decent incline. I checked it just now where the fluid would be towards the back of the car. The fluid was just barely on the tip. I parked the other direction and checked again. The fluid was right at or just slightly above the FULL line.

 

I'll check it again later on a more level surface. I think I mentioned it before. When I checked it days ago in the garage, the fluid level was/is right at the LOW line.