Brakes feel worthless

JMLegacy · December 7, 2012

Newly acquired (old) LGT, driven it about 700KM now and what i've realized is that the brakes are really tough/worthless. What I mean is the amount of force I have to give the brake to get it to stop should not be that much.

For example, in my prev car, honda civic, If I applied the same force I'd be shooting through the windscreen!

I can get the LGT to stop If i need it to, but i'd have to muscle up my legs.

I'm using stock brake parts. Is this dead feeling a result of poor pads or the ballooning effect of the brake lines?

DamienC · December 7, 2012

i felt the same with mine, changed the stock brakes today to ebc red stuff, huge difference! You'll still need a little bit of pressure on the pedal, but you'll feel a difference. You wont have to put your foot through the floor to stop :-p

JMLegacy · December 7, 2012

Have a link to this product? please share if you do

DamienC · December 7, 2012

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/automotive/redstuff_brake_pads/redstuff_brake_pads.shtml

product no: DP31583C

JMLegacy · December 7, 2012

thnx

Zero1 · December 7, 2012

I've had great experiences with EBC pads and rotors. My next set of pads will be EBC Red Stuff and tossing the Hawk HPS pads I currently have. Red/brown brake dust and as much as there is from the Hawks is teh sucks!

**AZP Installs** · December 10, 2012

First of all, start with a good brake flush. That will be the base-point. From there a good set of rotors and pads will help immensely.

We have been testing the Stoptech Street Performance pads and have found them to be a great balance. Couple them with Centric Premium Rotors and you have a good setup.

-Mike Paisan

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg

11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.

Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

spc2125 · December 10, 2012

^^^^ Finally switched you off those HPS pads huh

Stoptech pads FTW

**AZP Installs** · December 10, 2012

^^^^ Finally switched you off those HPS pads huh
Stoptech pads FTW

Nah, the HPS are still great pads and have their place. The cost on the Stoptechs are a pretty good deal and we've spent the past year or so testing them out, we never take claims at face value, especially in this industry.

-Mike Paisan

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg

11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.

Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

rob · December 10, 2012

From your testing, how would you compare the HPS and StopTech side-by-side?

I have been less than impressed with the HPS pads on my '05 LGT. As per other complaints, the cold stopping behavior is not up what I would expect from a good street pad (and worse when wet). I am seriously considering switching them out for something else.

-Rob

Zero1 · December 10, 2012

My biggest complaint about the HPS pads is that they dust... so much... brown/red yuck.

devobuzz · December 10, 2012

Funny I was just thinking about my HPS pads for the last few days. They have 30K on them and they really seem to be losing their stopping power. Initally I loved them - not so much anymore. I bought some Porterfield R4-S to try next.

No brake dust complaints on the HPS with stock rotors. They dont dust much at all...FWIW.

**AZP Installs** · December 11, 2012

From your testing, how would you compare the HPS and StopTech side-by-side?

I have been less than impressed with the HPS pads on my '05 LGT. As per other complaints, the cold stopping behavior is not up what I would expect from a good street pad (and worse when wet). I am seriously considering switching them out for something else.

-Rob

Seems odd as the Hawks actually have much better initial bite than the Stoptechs. The Stoptechs however have a higher heat tolerance and are less likely to chunk up from heat.

The only thing I can think is that the HPS were not properly bedded in when initially installed and you now have glazing of the rotors which can lead to poor braking in cold/rain situations.

-Mike Paisan

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg

11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.

Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

**AZP Installs** · December 11, 2012

My biggest complaint about the HPS pads is that they dust... so much... brown/red yuck.

The stoptechs will dust the same or a hair more than the Hawk HPS. Although we don't notice a whole lot of dusting in general except on the Hawk HP+ pads.

-Mike Paisan

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg

11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.

Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

Zero1 · December 11, 2012

My silver wheels become brown/red wheels over the course of a couple weeks. Never had the problem with EBC pads and they had exceptional bite which is why I'm going back to them. I think the HPS pads do pretty well with braking but man, I can't even drive home from the car wash without getting brake dust on the wheels...

claymore_6r · December 11, 2012

I have HPS, DBA rotors, Brembo calipers with Stainless steel brake lines and they are phenomenal. Not much break dust on the HPS. That's my $.02!

**iNVAR** · December 11, 2012

My own experiences:

I live in NYC and my HPS pads see widely variable driving conditions, from high speed (late at night, no traffic) to low speed bumper to bumper traffic. I also see all sorts of weather from 0 F all the way up to 100+ F, snow, rain, etc. My pads work well, they work quickly, and there is no problem with cold initial bite. However, they dust, and I have no idea how other people can say they don't because they definitely do. I have about 40K on my rotors now and have been using HPS on them, and they are still true with no vibrations. They are quiet, except the occasional high pitched squeak. No loud squealing.

Pedal feel was improved going from stock to Hawk HPS, even without a brake fluid bleed, go figure on that one. You would think that pads aren't compressible, but maybe they are, ever so slightly.

I have stainless lines and not a big difference, if any... I did the lines independent of other brake stuff.)

I have the Grimmspeed Master Cylinder Brace. Noticeable improvement in pedal stiffness, even with the car just sitting still and idling.

**frank_ster** · December 11, 2012

just new pads will make things better ..

or just really heat yours up a couple times.

**AZP Installs** · December 11, 2012

I guess the dusting thing is dependent on how hard you drive and/or the conditions also depending on what you are used to. Compared to HP+ pads, the HPS are considered non-dusting, so it's all relative I would imagine.

-Mike Paisan

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg

11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.

Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

**frank_ster** · December 11, 2012

fyi the subway in montreal uses blocks of wood for brake pads !

rob · December 11, 2012

Seems odd as the Hawks actually have much better initial bite than the Stoptechs. The Stoptechs however have a higher heat tolerance and are less likely to chunk up from heat.

The only thing I can think is that the HPS were not properly bedded in when initially installed and you now have glazing of the rotors which can lead to poor braking in cold/rain situations.

Well I certainly followed the bed-in procedure on fresh turned OE disks. I am not sure why they would glaze after that? Is it required to re-bed on regular intervals?

I am not really interested in delving into the HPS bad/good discussion. I know there have been a few threads with several user reports similar to mine (as well as several very positive reports).

I was only curious how you compare the two since you have reported lots of testing for both. So your summary is;

Initial Bite; HPS > ST

High heat stability; ST > HPS

Dusting; HPS ~= ST

Price; ST < HPS

Anything else of note?

-Rob

**AZP Installs** · December 11, 2012

That about sums it up.

I would put the heat stability of the STS = or better than that of the HP+ with the dusting close to that of the HPS.

-mike

rob · December 11, 2012

That about sums it up.

I would put the heat stability of the STS = or better than that of the HP+ with the dusting close to that of the HPS.

-mike

Ok, so would this also be accurate?

Initial Bite; STS > HP+ (would you list as >>? )

High heat stability; ST ~= HP+

Dusting; STS << HP+

Price; ST << HP+ (did not look up the differential, but just guessing HP+ are are more that HPS)

**AZP Installs** · December 11, 2012

No, the STS has less initial bite than the HP+ probably on par with the HPS.

Initial Bite; STS ~= HPS < HP+ (would you list as >>? )

High heat stability; STS > HP+ > HPS

Dusting; HP+ >> HPS =~ STS

Price; HP+ >> HPS > STS

-Mike Paisan

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg

11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.

Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

rob · December 11, 2012

Thanks Mike, but that doesn't quite match your initial comments

Seems odd as the Hawks actually have much better initial bite than the Stoptechs.

Am I misreading something?

Brakes feel worthless

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