Cant get more than 300 wheel out of the FP68HTA

[farmerz24]

Hi Guys,

 

 

My car is a 05 LGT Manual. I have a problem i cant figure out.

 

My setup is the FP 68HTA. However, I am having trouble breaking 300/300 wheel on the airboy road dyno. I see similar threads like littlebluegt's thread where he was easily up above 350wheel and i also see here that ridgeracer or is also road dynoing 350 or so wheel WITHOUT METH.....

 

My setup is:

 

FP 68HTA

Process West TMIC

Invidia divided 3 inch DP catless, full 3 inch catback exhaust

TGV deletes

Deutchwerks 300lph pump, 750cc DW injectors

Airbox Lid removed with K+N filter

50/50 or 60/40 water meth injection M7 nozzle

aftermarket up pipe catless

Romraider

 

Now the problem is that I am able to run the same if not more timing that what littleblueGT has in his thread, say 15 degrees peaking up to like 23-25 degrees, with a indicated AFR of 12-12.5.. boost is 20psi.

However, the best logs i can do on road dyno are about 280tq and 310 whp. I am at a loss as with this much timing and that lean of AFR i should be making more power. The only thing i can think of is that i have some sort of restriction, however i doubt the stock airbox with K+N and lid removed is causing this. I also have the stock rubber inlet on the turbo could this be collapsing? I am going to get a aftermarket silicone inlet and the kstech 73mm CAI but i still dont see these as causing a restiction.

Anyone have any other ideas.

 

The other thing I dont have are headers. I have stock manifolds, but even so i should be pushing more power i would think.

 

60-80 times on road dyno are only 2.45seconds.

The engine also has fresh mahle pistons, compression and leakdown were just checked and are in spec along with new sparkplugs.

 

I will post logs and pictures of the graphs today after work. If anyone has any ideas let me know.

[Spec B]

Post some logs up..

 

Also - I assume you are using the airboy sheet correctly - wheel diameter, weight and correct gear ratio, flat road, etc.?

 

Try downloading Virtual dyno - it is easier to use.

[Spec B]

And on meth you can run safely more boost. I run 24 tapering to 20 on E85.

[farmerz24]

no access to e85 here.

 

crappy 91 + 60/40 meth.

[farmerz24]

spec b out of curiosity, what are you showing on the airboy with the 68hta.

[Spec B]

Here is my virtual Dyno..Airboy is about the same.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=116358&d=1334697633

[Spec B]

I am on stock internals - so AFR is around 11.3 - I could go leaner.

[farmerz24]

what is your timing

[Spec B]

16.5 at peak tq up to 24.5 near redline...I probably have a little room to run more.

 

Here more info - including a log. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/fp-hta68-e85-road-dyno-184105.html

[farmerz24]

ya something aint right if your making almost 100 more wheel.

will post logs shortly....

[sbw]

You're crazy to even be trying to do a comparison like that.

 

Have you checked for boost leaks?

 

Whats your comp ratio with this new setup?

 

If anything you need to take a look at how your g/s compare for starters.

 

To say you should be running the same amount of timing to make the same power is simply not true. Two timing curves can be completely different and make a similar peak power. You can use it as a reference but dont think thats what you need to run necessarily.

[Spec B]

Assuming a good tune, no boost leaks and healthy engine...the comp ratio is the most likely cause.

 

Same engine with the same turbo running the same boost, fuel afr and timing will yield similar results. The other tune pieces (like Avcs) will not account for much difference in hp.

[Spec B]

Just realized you are running a tmic..that mght be a restriction. But not 100whp worth.

[need bb]

Well you don't have E85. You are running a lot of timing for 91. I thought most people were running around 17-18 at peak RPM??

[Spec B]

He is running meth tho...basically same knock resistance as E85.

[farmerz24]

Heres one of the latest logs when i threw more timing at it and didnt really do much. Another thing I realized may be causing a restriction is the fp oil relocation line. It feeds off of the passenger side avcs. The braided line has a 90 degree bend on it that makes it stick upwards and protrude into the stock air intake elbow that connects the inlet and airbox together. This makes the elbow more oval-like in shape and could be starting to cause a restriction? THe problem will be solved with the ks tech intake as the pipe wont make a bend and interfere with the turbo oil feed line.

 

Also not sure why graph 1's afr looks so skewy, Ive also attached another log with a little less timing but the same basic thing... I was hoping to be closer to 360-380whp/wtq or so... You wont be able to rely on maf g/s as I had rescaled the maf with the meth so the g/s is off. Once i got the kstech, I was going to rescale it anyways so thats how it is for now.

 

The TMIC is a process west and should be good for 400, i thought that it was one of the better if not best flowing top mount. I want to get another M1 jet and spray pre intercooler to eliminate heat soak on long ice race runs similar to what a road course would see.

 

Let me know if you notice anything out of the ordinary (other than the high timing and low hp #'s of couse ) A boost leak test is also something I haven't done but is probably a good idea.

 

Thanks guys for all the help

Farmerz

05lgt_fp68hta_log1.csv

05lgt_fp68hta_log2.csv

[farmerz24]

Sbw: compression ratio is 8.5:1 with the mahle 4032. Isnt this same as stock ?

[suds2250]

Spool is nice, are you hitting target boost? You flow more air and hit higher loads in your logs than I do.

[suds2250]

I always get goofy results with those road dyno softwares.

[Spec B]

Your WHP numbers are not bad - my road dyno was done in 40 degree weather - the numbers will be lower in the heat.

 

You first log has some knock around spool time. The other one looks clean..nothing jumps out of me as wrong/bad. Do you have any learned knock - can you post a learning view?

 

I would start by lowering boost to about 18psi and get your AFR more under control and slightly richer (maybe 11.5). Right now it's very aggressive and not entirely under control (not sure if this is a resullt of the meth kicking on/off). Once you get that as smooth and as close to 11.5 I would start adding boost back in. The HTA68 comes alive above 21PSI (on meth or E85) - try targeting 22psi in the 3500-4000 range..slowly tapering to 20 at redline. After you get boost stable - start leaning the afr. I have learned that on E85 and pump - leaner does not always mean more power.

[Spec B]

Also - the latest romraider logging software has fast polling - it pretty much doubles the resolution of your logs. You will get a lot more data resolution out of your logs.

 

Are you at sea level or at altitude?

[farmerz24]

SpecB: I am at 500-1000ft altitude. I will try getting AFR under control at 11.5 and go from there. I am always logging and resetting the ecu so there is no learned knock.

 

 

Suds2250: Don't trust the engine load/flow #'s as the maf scaling is off due to the meth being on when the intake box was scaled.

 

Thanks for the help guys.

[fahr_side]

Can you log AVCS too? I've seen a few cars fall down like that up top when cam advance was kept up too late.

[farmerz24]

i will log avcs but here is my table

[fahr_side]

Looks ok, doubt that's your problem. Curious what Spec B sees for peak MAFv...

 

I'd also try running in 11.2 AFR range, up boost to 23~24psi. If that doesn't quite do it try reducing timing. If you've changed squish clearance and chamber shape with the new pistons, it's possible you've passed MBT.