C-MuRdaA Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I have an 09 Spec B and I jsust purchased the Cobb AP. How does the AP interact with Si Drive? If I flash the ecu while in "intelligent" is "intelligent" the only setting effected by the flash or are all three settings effected regardless of what setting I am in while flashing? Do I have the ability to specifically tune each setting individually with the AP if I wanted to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatisit Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Si drive will still operate the same. (you will have all 3 modes still) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squiden Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 There are several threads on this, but the main point is that the SI-Drive is not a ECU change, just a throttle response change. Thus, the AP has zero effect on the SI-Drive functionality (I-mode still limits throttle to 70%, S# just hits 100% sooner). That said, I personnally love using I mode with the AP - has about as much power as the stock S-mode, but smoother for daily driving. And when I don't have the family in the car, I can always switch over to Sport-sharp and have some real fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fonts Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Yup .... SI drive is a throttle change only. It's nothing more than a pricey gimmick IMO. Personally, mine stays on sport and never changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-MuRdaA Posted October 11, 2009 Author Share Posted October 11, 2009 Ok cool. Thanks guys, I didn't know exactly how Si drive worked but now I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fonts Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 That's why this wonderful forum is here. You should be able to get answers to 99% of your questions here. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strizzy Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Dyno tune rendered my SI drive useless.... I couldn't be any happier either. Full response all the time. My bad luck build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordhowe Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 ^^ that's funny. how did a dyno tune mess up your SI drive? I have my car tuned and the SI drive is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strizzy Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I guess it depends on who tuned it, but I like not having to remember to switch to S# all the time. My bad luck build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapnJack Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 When properly tuned, SI drive really shines. I got my car tuned at P&L Motorsports in Chicago and this is what I came out with. I mode - 241AWHP / 208AWT S mode - 244AWHP / 242AWT S# mode - 258AWHP / 287AWT The HP numbers don't look much different, but the 80lbft of torque is noticable. It won't hit peak boost (19PSI) in S mode, it will only hit peak in S#. In S mode, its almost like the WG is driven right off the turbo housing. It peaks at about 12PSI. Makes for a nice driving car on the highway in S and allows balls out action when you need it with S#. In I mode, the car peaks at about 1-2PSI giving it nice maners around town and in the snow. I also get about 29-30 mpg on the highway in I mode where as before I only got about 26 mpg. Done right, the SI drive rocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squiden Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 When properly tuned, SI drive really shines. I got my car tuned at P&L Motorsports in Chicago and this is what I came out with. I mode - 241AWHP / 208AWT S mode - 244AWHP / 242AWT S# mode - 258AWHP / 287AWT The HP numbers don't look much different, but the 80lbft of torque is noticable. It won't hit peak boost (19PSI) in S mode, it will only hit peak in S#. In S mode, its almost like the WG is driven right off the turbo housing. It peaks at about 12PSI. Makes for a nice driving car on the highway in S and allows balls out action when you need it with S#. In I mode, the car peaks at about 1-2PSI giving it nice maners around town and in the snow. I also get about 29-30 mpg on the highway in I mode where as before I only got about 26 mpg. Done right, the SI drive rocks. Yep, that sounds about right for my setup as well. I-mode is perfect for around-town driving now (in stock form, I-mode just sucks rocks), and if I really need to do something crazy, just push the S# button and you have more-than-enough power to do whatever you need. I'd be really suprised if any tune can "disable" the functionality of SI-drive... my understanding is that none of the functionality of SI-drive is handled by the ECU, and thus a tune really should have no effect on the outcome (i.e. - I-mode should still produce 70% throttle, S-mode 100%, and S# 100%... sooner). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravisCOBB Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 As someone noted, it depends on how you want your SI drive setup. You can configure it so that SI Drive just alters throttle mapping the way the AccessPORT maps do out of the box, you can disable it or you can configure it so that it does map switching. However, you can only set it up this way with a ProTuner, we do not have the ability to do this out of the box as it were. Travis COBB Tuning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordhowe Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 hey Travis, can you provide some info on how it actually switches maps? i guess it's switching real time maps and not a complete flash right? My ideal situation would leave the sport sharp for my E85 map, S for all out 93 and I for economy. not just throttle tipping. thanks for any feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbrjason Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 It doesn't and can't switch maps. It switches requested torque amounts per accelerator pedal angle. There is a table for each mode. Sport and sport sharp both allow the max of 350 requested torque, though in sport# the higher 300s requested torque number comes on a lot sooner. S# is hitting 340~requested torque at 85% throttle, where S isn't hitting that level until 100% throttle. I mode allows for a max requested torque of 275 or so. Boost is tuned by rpm and requested torque, so if you don't want the car to reach the last (highest) column of your boost table in a specific mode, then you can do what I-mode does and only allow for a requested torque amount of 280 or so which on the stock boost table equals about 9psi max. You can up I-mode to allow for max requested torque of 300, which would then have you at closer to 11 psi max in that mode. As for disabling si-drive, it's as simple as picking the mode you like the most and copying that table to the other 2 tables. Then all 3 si drive modes will be identical. For a while, I had my S# table copied to my S table so that it would default to s# mode essentially leaving me with I-mode and S# only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drogos Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 so basically to get 3 variations of tuned, custom map on SI drive, tuner would have to copy all the settings for timing etc. to all 3 maps and request different settings for max torque and throttle response, otherwise if he tunes jsut one map, the remaining 2 are basically stock maps????......or are all settings automatically copied to a seperate maps whenever tuned with different above mentioned requested values. Sorry for not being very clear....I guess my question is: after tuned - do I have custom map in S# and factory maps on S and I or do I have custom tune in all 3 settings with just different requested torque and throttle response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourstringfletch Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Nice to see this thread resurrected; I'd like to hear how thoughts on this have evolved. What's the consensus on the best way to utilize SI Drive with a tune? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourstringfletch Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Anyone?... How about this - with new members comes fresh ideas ... and dumb questions. Would it be possible to create a map that only spools the turbo after 70% throttle? This way, intelligent mode would save more gas and then push the S# button and all power becomes available? Seems more elegant than switching between maps with AP... ... but also might result in a car that drives like crap. Thoughts?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbrjason Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 so basically to get 3 variations of tuned, custom map on SI drive, tuner would have to copy all the settings for timing etc. to all 3 maps and request different settings for max torque and throttle response, otherwise if he tunes jsut one map, the remaining 2 are basically stock maps????......or are all settings automatically copied to a seperate maps whenever tuned with different above mentioned requested values. Sorry for not being very clear....I guess my question is: after tuned - do I have custom map in S# and factory maps on S and I or do I have custom tune in all 3 settings with just different requested torque and throttle response. Unfortunately it's not that comprehensive. The 3 selections of SI drive can provide you with 3 levels of requested torque. You can use this to run 3 separate levels of boost, or you can use it to achieve the same boost in all 3 but with different pedal inputs, or some combination of both. It would be nice if fuel and timing could be adjusted for each mode but it's not possible at least as of now. Instead of the si switch selecting different maps, it selects between different throttle tables in one map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbrjason Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Anyone?... How about this - with new members comes fresh ideas ... and dumb questions. Would it be possible to create a map that only spools the turbo after 70% throttle? This way, intelligent mode would save more gas and then push the S# button and all power becomes available? Seems more elegant than switching between maps with AP... ... but also might result in a car that drives like crap. Thoughts?? To some extent.. I have my I-mode set to run wastegate only boost. Meaning WDGC min and max are both set to 0 when I'm in I mode regardless of the throttle position. Wastegate only will still see boost before 70% though. This is a great use of I-mode though IMO. I also have the openloop to closed loop delay raised for this mode as it has a separate setting. As a result the car isn't so quick to go to my OL fuel table on the highway and may result in slightly better milage. S and S# in my car have the same profile/pedal feel but S caps out around 17lbs and S# is around 19. I mainly only use S-mode. If the weather is really bad I usually remember to switch to I-mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drogos Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 yep, my tuner confirmed that. I used to use 'I' only on the highway but tried it out on the streets yesterday and I actually enjoyed smooth and mellow throttle response. I resetted my mpg counter at the gas station some 7 miles from home and averaged 34mpg Granted it was very short distance and it was at night with no traffic, a lot of green lights and a lot of coasting to red light, still for 34F, winter gas and winter tires it's damn good anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legspecb08 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I have to jump in and ask maybe the same question that has already been asked but Im gettong conflicting info from the forums and actual shops. Im aware that the Si drive has nothing to do with the ECU and its fuel maps. What I understand it as and have been told this by Cobb is that the Si drive only controls the DBW throttle and that it picks between three ratios. one side of the ratio being gas peddle movement and the other being throttle body movement. Sport mode being a true 1:1 and I being less then that so that a ~70% max throttle is reached. This will stop the turbo from spooling at full boost due to restrictions on fuel and air that create the energy to spool it. S# mode will open the throttle quicker with a higher ratio so that the throttle is at WOT at less then 100% of movement on the gas pedal. This creates a faster reaction and so the turbo spools faster. Now I know this has a few small holes and I also have heard that the S# mode can also add timing with the AVCS. I do not know if this is true but that was explained to me from another source and that is why the car has a safety setting in it (The Blue Light) which will let you know when the car has warmed up enough to use the S# mode which is not select-able until that light goes out. This helps reduce damage to the engine during cold operation. This to me makes sense but I have not ever heard anything more on it. If you guys could add some more info on this I would greatly appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbrjason Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Maybe the use of "requested torque" was confusing. It doesn't actually mean anything as far as torque, but is a means of controlling the DBW tables. So you have 3 DBW tables, 1 for each si-drive mode and these are your pedal input. This table is by RPM and Pedal Angle. Filled in on this table is a value known as "requested torque". There is also a Target Throttle plate table which uses a ratio of pedal angle to requested torque for the final throttle output. On the input tables, the requested torque values range from 0 to 350. These numbers are arbitrary in relation to actual torque figures (some cars use 400). So at accelerator pedal angle 0 you have 0 requested torque and as you push on the pedal you move up the range. How that range is set is up to you. At 350 RT, you're at full throttle. You can have it move to that at 50% pedal or have it go to 350 at only 100% pedal or anything in between. You also don't have to go all the way to 350 with 100% throttle. You can cap a mode at 280 RT or 300 RT. This is how the stock modes are setup. S# hits 350 by about 85% pedal input but gets there quickly. S hits 350 only at full throttle and builds smoothly to that. I mode is capped at 274 and builds to that rather dully with lots of flat areas. Add to that the boost table. It is by RPM and Requested Torque. So in the far right column of boost (330 Requested torque) you have you max boost. The next column over is slightly less boost and so on. So stock, both S and S# hit the max boost column of 330 RT. In I mode it's not quite hitting the 280 RT column which amounts to only achieving boost around 8psi or so. On my setup, I have I-mode set to cap at 300 RT. The output table is set to allow 300 RT to be 100% throttle. 300 RT on my wastegate tables and less is all 0. So this means that in I-mode, i still achieve 100% throttle opening, and 0 wastegate duty added. This amounts to a very smooth 10-11psi of boost. On S mode, I still hit 100% throttle of course, but I'm capping it at 320 RT which on my boost table is around 17psi. On S# I'm not capping it and it goes to 330 RT which is approx 19 psi in my boost table. Unless there is some undiscovered table, there are no timing changes between modes. The blue light keeps you from going full throttle too soon after car is started. You can still go full throttle in S but you have to push the pedal to the floor. Aside from the lack of table to control this, I've done many runs in both to shake out any knock and don't get any knocking in S# that I don't see in S as well which leads me to believe no timing changes are happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourstringfletch Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Thanks for the great input guys. Jason you are a genius and your setup sounds brilliant. Any recommendations on a tuner that could create a similar map for a completely stock car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbrjason Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Thanks for the great input guys. Jason you are a genius and your setup sounds brilliant. Any recommendations on a tuner that could create a similar map for a completely stock car? What year and type of vehicle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourstringfletch Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 What year and type of vehicle? 2009 LGT with 78k miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.