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-   -   Ever seen a LGT with 11:1 comp ratio? stay tuned... (http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194739)

fightinchunk 10-14-2012 07:46 PM

Ever seen a LGT with 11:1 comp ratio? stay tuned...
 
UPDATED courtesy of superbitchstorm sandy :(

So i've been building this legacy, an 05 GRP LGT non limited in 5speed.

Got the car for 3k with blown turbo. A friend of mine from manley has been working on this boxer motor that's theoritically supposed to be the most effecient boxer than the apparently highly inefficient 2.5 and 2.0 motors. The block is
1. pinned for additional cylinder rigidity
2. oringed
3. built with all manley forged internals. both the piston and rods are prototypes made specificially for my HC motor. It effectively destrokes the motor to 2.35...
4. bored to 100mm
5. killer b pickup
6. 850cc DW injectors

will be running a 20g and FMIC for the time being... will be dynoing with both that and a stock location 35r to see which would be better for the application

the theory behind the motor is that it'll spin to close to 9k with the proper headwork, 11:1 compression will give great NA performance off boost. but boost lag will be reduced tremendously by the faster spool that 11:1 compression gives. It gives the motor a perfectly square bore to stroke ratio.

have no idea what to expect but the car made 550ish with a smaller hta68 at around 19psi when the motor was run briefly on a forester. car should be getting tuned in the next couple of weeks by Dave Brown from MSPT(autoperformance solutions)


when I bought her
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto..._4075279_n.jpg

you can see the block is pinned in the water jacket around the cylinder. as close to a closed deck block as a subaru can get, but with the benifits of cooling of an open/semiopen deck would provide! Also oringed for custom headgaskets
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...20770264_n.jpg

getting the car all put together at broken motorsports!
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...30590137_n.jpg

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...27391918_n.jpg

stay tuned for dyno numbers! the numbers wont be high i think... but according to both dave brown and tom(manley)... the motor should "smack me in the face like a v8"

.blackgt. 10-14-2012 08:14 PM

Cool. In for results.

Berzerklo 10-14-2012 09:02 PM

11:1 compression ratio in a turbo? What is your boost target going to be?!?

GEE-OTTO 10-14-2012 09:06 PM

With such a high CR, 93 OCT, timing and high rev you could get away with not too large snail and still make insane power. Cool idea, we 2.5i guys get the benefits of higher CR and the AVO turbo kit.

blongo804 10-14-2012 09:10 PM

Whoa... In for results.

Drift Motion 10-14-2012 09:50 PM

damn...an LGT for 3k...crazy

fightinchunk 10-14-2012 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berzerklo (Post 4114607)
11:1 compression ratio in a turbo? What is your boost target going to be?!?

hoping for close to 18psi like the previous prototype that went into the forester

Quote:

Originally Posted by GEE-OTTO (Post 4114615)
With such a high CR, 93 OCT, timing and high rev you could get away with not too large snail and still make insane power. Cool idea, we 2.5i guys get the benefits of higher CR and the AVO turbo kit.

i kinda wanted to see how it'll respond to a quick spooling turbo but the tuner to not be scared with a turbo that would typically be laggy on stock compression sti's... for it wont be laggy at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drift Motion (Post 4114659)
damn...an LGT for 3k...crazy

yeah... saw the guy at the post office, told him i loved the car and that i'd buy it... asked me to make an offer. threw 3k out there and we settled on 3.5k. the car was mine by the end of the day

.blackgt. 10-15-2012 06:21 AM

Was he high?

Nrw 10-15-2012 06:32 AM

Those 2.35 motors are pretty neat. Couple STI's up here running around with them.

Balrock 10-15-2012 06:59 AM

of course, being nosey we all want to know how much this cost.

Firepuma 10-15-2012 07:11 AM

I'm in for this- very intriguing.

BAC5.2 10-15-2012 07:13 AM

You can't "destroke" the engine with pistons and rods. You must have an EJ20 crank in there.

A 35R is going to be too much for that high CR, low displacement, and pump fuel. You'll fight det the whole way. If you use E85 or race fuel, then you might be able to hold onto it and make that turbo rip. If it's a street car, I'd look into the GTX3076.

Hopefully those pins keep the stock sleeves from bursting. I have my doubts, however. Stock sleeves almost invariably fail with 100mm pistons, and the engines become VERY det sensitive with that little sleeve remaining. The closest you can get to a closed deck block in a Subaru, is the OEM closed deck block from the 91-94 Legacy Turbo (EJ22T).

And this all begs the question - What are you doing for transmission? That much power will vaporize the stock 5MT if you drive it like it should be. If you go for 600+, even a stock 6MT will be ill suited for the power (not to mention short-legged in the ratio department). What's your plan?

Max Capacity 10-15-2012 08:00 AM

I was also thinking about the tranny after he get's the engine to hold itself together.

I hope you have a Great tuuner, You might want to contact Devin Perice at AEM. I see your in central NJ. There are a lot of great tuners there.

Is the car going on Motec ? May be look up Jeff Evans of Evans tuning, or Felix Media off the Honda forums, like Honda-Tech.com I can't remember whats the name of the shop Felix works at.

What my main point is you need a great tuner.

Here, I did some searching for you.

http://www.google.com/search?q=gato+...e=&safe=active

I know Felix has tuned other cars as well, I know theres a Ford GT40 he has done. At least ask them for help and if they won't touch the car ask them if they know who would.

Mike at AZPinstalls.com may be of some help too.

I'm trying to find a better link to Felix but it's hard here at work...

instantfury 10-15-2012 08:06 AM

Sub

Haight 05LGT 10-15-2012 09:03 AM

Subbed for PoWa! :dm:

ripemeat 10-15-2012 01:12 PM

interested to hear the results. I do know that people that try to go north of 9:1 CR run into det issues as BAC5.2 said, it would be a challenge on 93 i think. I'd say to get the best results would be to introduce meth injection in this scenario.... that will help with running a somewhat average timing advance as it will be tough on 93 if i had to guess. and boost, well, i dunno, we'll have to see :munch:

Max Capacity 10-15-2012 01:18 PM

You may want to check out FTW race fuel too. Some of the import drag race guy's are having great luck with it. SpeedFactory just went 8.13 in thier honda civic using it and a little NO2.

http://www.google.com/search?q=http%...&bpcl=35277026

Chris Miller himself also ran a record time of 8.70 on a small tire in SFWD using his fuel.

Haight 05LGT 10-15-2012 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Capacity (Post 4115411)
You may want to check out FTW race fuel too. Some of the import drag race guy's are having great luck with it. SpeedFactory just went 8.13 in thier honda civic using it and a little NO2.

http://www.google.com/search?q=http%...&bpcl=35277026

Chris Miller himself also ran a record time of 8.70 on a small tire in SFWD using his fuel.

Kevin from speedfactory is insanely fast. His civic was pushing 900whp last year. His turbo is upfront with the fmic, connected directly to the hot side of the fmic. It is an amazing setup to see in person. I took some classes with him at TCC in tacoma. His brother James and him are wicked smart.

Flipapotimus 10-15-2012 04:01 PM

subscribed also

wurkenman 10-15-2012 04:43 PM

I'm in. Nice to follow a thread where I'm not the one doing the work.

Max Capacity 10-15-2012 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haight 05LGT (Post 4115424)
Kevin from speedfactory is insanely fast. His civic was pushing 900whp last year. His turbo is upfront with the fmic, connected directly to the hot side of the fmic. It is an amazing setup to see in person. I took some classes with him at TCC in tacoma. His brother James and him are wicked smart.

Not to hi jack the thread, but this year that car will over 1200whp. My son and I were kind of the inspiration for James to do his single cam civic. We've exchanged ideas on the forums. I met James briefly a couple years back at Etown, their first year out here.

Haight 05LGT 10-15-2012 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Capacity (Post 4115924)
Not to hi jack the thread, but this year that car will over 1200whp. My son and I were kind of the inspiration for James to do his single cam civic. We've exchanged ideas on the forums. I met James briefly a couple years back at Etown, their first year out here.

Their shop is pretty intense now. James is tuning like crazy nowadays. I've heard from Kevin that they are having a difficult time keeping steady numbers above 1100whp.

gcoonley 10-16-2012 11:54 AM

subscribed

OutbackXT05 10-16-2012 09:51 PM

Interesting

ruggerheist 10-17-2012 06:04 PM

piqued my interest.

cryo 10-17-2012 07:27 PM

I've looked at this link a few times but didnt click on it, glad I did now. subscribed for an interesting setup.

A guy I know is building a 2.0-2.5 hybrid 10-1 comp on e85 at altitude for his wrx as well. He's planning on running a 20g, should be fun

Dave

kaz98gt 10-18-2012 05:59 AM

subbed for results/tech data/motivation to do my own project

dingbang 10-18-2012 07:11 AM

Subbed as I have been throwing the idea around of a destroked 2.5 once I blow up my motor...the 2.5 is so...square.

fightinchunk 10-18-2012 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .blackgt. (Post 4114804)
Was he high?

naw... just caught him at the right time. he was marrying his lover in austrailia but because of the nature of the relationship(dual citizenship) he had to pay the austrailian gov per word/picture of every correspondence between the two parties. it ended up being like 3.5k so that's what he wanted the car for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by balrock01 (Post 4114830)
of course, being nosey we all want to know how much this cost.

virtually nothing for the block/machinework/install. paid for the turbo, fmic, intake etc etc

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAC5.2 (Post 4114841)
You can't "destroke" the engine with pistons and rods. You must have an EJ20 crank in there.

A 35R is going to be too much for that high CR, low displacement, and pump fuel. You'll fight det the whole way. If you use E85 or race fuel, then you might be able to hold onto it and make that turbo rip. If it's a street car, I'd look into the GTX3076.

Hopefully those pins keep the stock sleeves from bursting. I have my doubts, however. Stock sleeves almost invariably fail with 100mm pistons, and the engines become VERY det sensitive with that little sleeve remaining. The closest you can get to a closed deck block in a Subaru, is the OEM closed deck block from the 91-94 Legacy Turbo (EJ22T).

And this all begs the question - What are you doing for transmission? That much power will vaporize the stock 5MT if you drive it like it should be. If you go for 600+, even a stock 6MT will be ill suited for the power (not to mention short-legged in the ratio department). What's your plan?

That's what I thought when the builder was explaining it to me. He was soo excited about the block that I think he just kinda left some details out but he was explaining to me more about the different method of detroking than the traditional methods using different rod length?...i'll be down in the edison/nj area today so I'll get some clarification...

what would you recommend? I do LOVE my 5spds but the added strength a 6spd offers might be my only route right now... ra gear set too close?

fightinchunk 10-18-2012 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Capacity (Post 4114884)
I was also thinking about the tranny after he get's the engine to hold itself together.

I hope you have a Great tuuner, You might want to contact Devin Perice at AEM. I see your in central NJ. There are a lot of great tuners there.

Is the car going on Motec ? May be look up Jeff Evans of Evans tuning, or Felix Media off the Honda forums, like Honda-Tech.com I can't remember whats the name of the shop Felix works at.

What my main point is you need a great tuner.

Here, I did some searching for you.

http://www.google.com/search?q=gato+...e=&safe=active

I know Felix has tuned other cars as well, I know theres a Ford GT40 he has done. At least ask them for help and if they won't touch the car ask them if they know who would.

Mike at AZPinstalls.com may be of some help too.

I'm trying to find a better link to Felix but it's hard here at work...

i'm sticking with dave brown. I trust him and he's a stand up dude. he'll take care of me and the car no doubt. I was originally thinking along the lines you were thinking(HC tuner over subaru tuner) but he's seen a decent combination of both. Broken Motorsports has dealt with MSPT for a long time and I've never heard a single bad thing about dave or MSPT.

car_cursed 10-18-2012 09:35 AM

RA gear sets are not all that much stronger, that's a common falacy in my opinion, if you want to hold the power either stick with the stock 5 speed and take it easy, or you can go to a straight cut 5 speed 1-4, and a helical 5th, this is a better setup for the track, the 6 speed is fantastic, and i did the swap in my old wrx, but the 1-2 gearing is pretty tall, it holds a ton of power though.

Max Capacity 10-18-2012 11:28 AM

PPG may be a good contact for getting stronger gears for these cars and Geoff at Full Race might be someone with good contacts too. He makes great manifolds.

Geoff is on this forum from time to time too.

BAC5.2 10-18-2012 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fightinchunk (Post 4119970)
naw... just caught him at the right time. he was marrying his lover in austrailia but because of the nature of the relationship(dual citizenship) he had to pay the austrailian gov per word/picture of every correspondence between the two parties. it ended up being like 3.5k so that's what he wanted the car for.



virtually nothing for the block/machinework/install. paid for the turbo, fmic, intake etc etc



That's what I thought when the builder was explaining it to me. He was soo excited about the block that I think he just kinda left some details out but he was explaining to me more about the different method of detroking than the traditional methods using different rod length?...i'll be down in the edison/nj area today so I'll get some clarification...

what would you recommend? I do LOVE my 5spds but the added strength a 6spd offers might be my only route right now... ra gear set too close?

Stroke is only affected by crank throw. Changing the rod length doesn't change displacement volume.

For gears, contact Andrewtech about a PAR set. 240-683-1000

rob-2 10-18-2012 05:36 PM

What is the projected performance gains from increasing compression?

We've got boosted guys with low comp tubro'd Honda FC20 motors still pushing 9K with 9.8:1.

fightinchunk 10-18-2012 08:27 PM

bac can probably explain it better... but I believe the gains aren't what i'm looking for... I'm looking to maximize the area under the curve...

ripemeat 10-19-2012 06:22 AM

If you're looking to maximize the area under the curve then you ARE looking for gains, probably through all rpm ranges. If this is the case a 20g twin scroll setup would be awesome, a single scroll turbo will still take a little bit to spool even with higher CR.

Max Capacity 10-19-2012 06:39 AM

"For gears, contact Andrewtech about a PAR set. 240-683-1000"


Yea, I've that name before too, are they in the northwest ?

Code 10-19-2012 06:48 AM

This forum needed something new and different.

Subbed for an interesting build.

xero287 10-19-2012 06:49 AM

Quote:


Yea, I've that name before too, are they in the northwest ?
Northeast/Mid-Atlantic

In MD.

12 Minutes from me. With them is TurboXS as well. I love Gaithersburg =D

fightinchunk 10-19-2012 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ripemeat (Post 4121405)
If you're looking to maximize the area under the curve then you ARE looking for gains, probably through all rpm ranges. If this is the case a 20g twin scroll setup would be awesome, a single scroll turbo will still take a little bit to spool even with higher CR.

lol i might have worded that wrong... if I put all this money into the car I certainly hope there would be some type of gain! but I meant that this wasn't going to be a high horsepower build that it certainly could be capable of with e85/c16 etc... but that i'd be look for a well rounded, effecient motor that would be fun throughout the powerband that may or maynot blow my trans to bits.


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