Why A Difference Between 2005 LGT Wagon and Sedan?

[jmcgliss]

My wife and I both noticed a big difference between our stock 2005 LGT 5MT wagon (purchased new) and the 2005 LGT 5MT sedan we purchased last year. Why?

 

The sedan's engine pulls stronger and more smoothly in the sedan, and gets 24mpg vs. 22mpg. The sedan's turn-in and grip are more sporty, whereas the wagon has a nice smooth glassy vibe to both the ride and powertrain.

 

Tires are the same Conti Extreme Contacts.

Mileage is close enough to not be a factor @ 80,000+

Control arms, bushings, shocks are all OEM

RPM /speed charts are identical (assume same diff ratios)

Wagon is OEM tuning; no proof that sedan had a COBB flash, but maybe?

Complete fuel injector service did not change performance of the wagon.

Exhaust is tight on both cars (wagon has new gaskets in the exhaust due to the effect of Chicago winters).

Synthetic engine oil in both.

Weight is not much different on paper, but distribution probably does vary.

 

Not sure where to start since our seat-of-the-pants-dyno detects both powertrain and handling differences. Did the factory use a different differential set-up or ECM tuning for the wagons?

 

Thoughts?

[Max Capacity]

Funny my wagon is faster then my Spec B... there's a reason for that.

 

First off make sure the tire pressure is about 40psi on both cars. The DWS's need a little more air pressure.

 

My wagon has been on Cobb AP since 8000 miles. It has gotten better then 23mpg average over the years.

 

MPG depends on a lot of fractures, if your getting 22-24mpg you right in the ball park.

 

 

My wagon was built in May 04, they say the early cars are more raw then the later one's, my wagon has always felt more connected to the road.

[iNVAR]

1) I'd start with either a tactrix or vagcom cable (search here) to check the overall health of your cars. You don't have to be throwing a CEL to have issues.

 

2) Handling can be explained easily by different wear on the various components if the suspension parts have never been replaced... Also, it's a wagon vs sedan. It *will* feel differently.

 

3) Are your tires the same size? I assume they are but hey, just a thought.

[TheBlackPearl]

I haven't driven a sedan, but I would think curb weight, weight bias, wheelbase and C.O.G. would be most of the reasons why you "feel" the difference. Aerodynamics too.

 

Mr. Wizard would prob be able to explain it. (Anyone remember that show? lol)

 

Edit: That'd be pretty lame if the sedan was running a Cobb map and the P.O. didn't fork over the AP...

[AkumaMax]

Funny my wagon is faster then my Spec B... there's a reason for that.

 

First off make sure the tire pressure is about 40psi on both cars. The DWS's need a little more air pressure.

 

My wagon has been on Cobb AP since 8000 miles. It has gotten better then 23mpg average over the years.

 

MPG depends on a lot of fractures, if your getting 22-24mpg you right in the ball park.

 

 

My wagon was built in May 04, they say the early cars are more raw then the later one's, my wagon has always felt more connected to the road.

 

I agree with the more RAW part. My LGT feels so much different than any other one I've come across.

[robinlsb]

My wife and I both noticed a big difference between our stock 2005 LGT 5MT wagon (purchased new) and the 2005 LGT 5MT sedan we purchased last year. Why?

 

The sedan's engine pulls stronger and more smoothly in the sedan, and gets 24mpg vs. 22mpg. The sedan's turn-in and grip are more sporty, whereas the wagon has a nice smooth glassy vibe to both the ride and powertrain.

 

Tires are the same Conti Extreme Contacts.

Mileage is close enough to not be a factor @ 80,000+

Control arms, bushings, shocks are all OEM

RPM /speed charts are identical (assume same diff ratios)

Wagon is OEM tuning; no proof that sedan had a COBB flash, but maybe?

Complete fuel injector service did not change performance of the wagon.

Exhaust is tight on both cars (wagon has new gaskets in the exhaust due to the effect of Chicago winters).

Synthetic engine oil in both.

Weight is not much different on paper, but distribution probably does vary.

 

Not sure where to start since our seat-of-the-pants-dyno detects both powertrain and handling differences. Did the factory use a different differential set-up or ECM tuning for the wagons?

 

Thoughts?

 

Buy the wagon:lol:

[BoozeRS05]

My sedan felt a little faster in a straight line, but the difference is negligible. My wagon has a better suspension setup then my sedan did, and it corners better/great.

[jmcgliss]

Some of you are reporting the opposite of what we're seeing. The wagon feels tame and the sedan has more balls. Today I was carrying weight in the sedan's trunk in case the wagon has more mass behind the rear axles, and it still felt 'better' in that "track day" sense.

 

Is it possible the wagon did not get the 50/50 front/rear diff split that sedans have?

[chimera]

Because the ECU adjusts to whatever you're feeding it. Are you both using the same octane rated fuel? Could one car be more prone to 'knocking' than the other? If so, the ignition timing multiplier maybe different between the 2 cars causing the difference

 

https://www.google.co.nz/#safe=off&hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=subaru+ignition+advance+multiplier&oq=subaru+ignition+advance+multiplier

[iNVAR]

Sigh. Read my post. That's where you should be starting...

 

edit: Here, I'll elaborate more with some steps.

 

1) Determine health of your cars. If both are healthy that's good. If one or both of them are unhealthy, stop here. You have your answer already. This is a good step to do ANYWAY, just to make sure at the basic level you are running okay.

 

2) You are talking about two very different cars. Not because it is a wagon vs a sedan but because they are both 8 year old cars that have experienced very different lives from one another. You could probably take two identical LGTs from the factory, send them to opposite sides of the country, bring them back after 8 years, and they would feel significantly different from one another. Unless you have replaced all of your components with fresh parts, I don't understand why you'd be surprised that one feels different than the other. And that's not even counting the fact that one's a wagon and the other's a sedan!

 

3) You are looking at the wrong thing and asking the wrong questions. K.I.S.S. The mechanics between the cars for the most part should be the same. Certainly the split for power distribution, the transmissions, etc. are the same. The LAST thing I'd be even considering is some weird modification where the center viscous couplings are different resulting in a different power split. Even before that I might consider that there was a tune on the car. But if there was, step (1) above would've revealed it already... You should have a tactrix or vagcom cable on hand. Personally, I think everyone should have one of those. Well worth it for diagnostics purposes alone.

[chimera]

well said

[jmcgliss]

That's a thought. Both cars using premium. No codes. What options do I have for diagnosing possible timing differences?

[notthesnail]

If you have a cable you can pull the learning view from both and compare. It won't be definitive, but if one is pulling timing somewhere then that's a place to start.

[iNVAR]

that's a thought. Both cars using premium. No codes. What options do i have for diagnosing possible timing differences?

 

if you have a cable you can pull the learning view from both and compare. It won't be definitive, but if one is pulling timing somewhere then that's a place to start.

 

1) i'd start with either a tactrix or vagcom cable (search here) to check the overall health of your cars. You don't have to be throwing a cel to have issues.

 

2) handling can be explained easily by different wear on the various components if the suspension parts have never been replaced... Also, it's a wagon vs sedan. It *will* feel differently.

 

3) are your tires the same size? I assume they are but hey, just a thought.

HMMMMMMMM...

 

Ugh...

[chimera]

What options do I have for diagnosing possible timing differences?

Have a look at the sticky's at the top of the technical / tuning forum if you need info on how to do this

[robinlsb]

My sedan felt a little faster in a straight line, but the difference is negligible. My wagon has a better suspension setup then my sedan did, and it corners better/great.

 

Never trust a butt dyno:lol:

[robinlsb]

Some of you are reporting the opposite of what we're seeing. The wagon feels tame and the sedan has more balls. Today I was carrying weight in the sedan's trunk in case the wagon has more mass behind the rear axles, and it still felt 'better' in that "track day" sense.

 

Is it possible the wagon did not get the 50/50 front/rear diff split that sedans have?

 

Same trans and diff split.

 

The wagon has a slightly better weight distribution than the sedan.

 

The wheel base's are identical

 

A non limited Wagon weighs 65LBS more than a Non limited Sedan.:lol:

 

The drag coefficient of the wagon is .2 (~.28 versus ~.30 wagon. Pesky roof rails:lol:) greater that the sedan.

 

On the other hand, rear down force on the wagon is substantially greater than the sedan at speed.

 

 

All I can say is that my wagon was pretty good at 154MPH:eek:

[Max Capacity]

My 05 wagon has a 60/40 split rear seat.

 

also the other big difference is the wagon can carry more stuff. I have pictures to prove it.

[jmcgliss]

I read you. Got busy with work. My first step was to rule out any *known* engineering differences as in "oh, yeah some of the late-MY wagons got Outback parts". With that ruled out, I'll do more diagnosis.

[jmcgliss]

Thanks; will do more homework.