smkscrn Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Post follow-ups to ECU issue/stuttering....since the other thread was closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_rex Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Post follow-ups to ECU issue/stuttering....since the other thread was closed. none of the other threads were closed... why do we need 3 threads discussing the same issue open all at one time? isnt' two enough? dR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkscrn Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 ^^ because I figured since MWIENER2 is starting a damn countdown to closing the other thread....as he said, that I would just open one that discusses the turnaround and results from LGT owners that have/are dealing with ECU issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Jedimaster* Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Good idea! The mods love it when you make another thread continuing one they intentionally closed!!!1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eles1 Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 They're only closing it because it was getting way too lengthy to be useful. I already started another one with a poll in it (on down the list in this same forum) concerning how well the ECU fix worked for those who have tried it but it isn't getting much attention since the original one is still open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_rex Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Good idea! The mods love it when you make another thread continuing one they intentionally closed!!!1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCDetails Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Has anyone tested to see if the minimal stutter that is left after the ECU fix has been applied will be removed after an AP reflash? I'm just curious since I've read that the AP sorts out the problem pretty well before the fix, so maybe it will do even better after the fix. _________________________________________ “Cleanliness becomes more important as godliness becomes more unlikely.” O C D E T A I L S . C O M OCDETAILS BLOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Two things for sure that I've noticed since my reflash (now at 850 miles post reflash) 1) The car is way smoother at idle and at just about any RPM range in any gear. Actually cannot induce stutter or buck. 2) My gas mileage has gone up at least 2 mpg around town and at least 3 mpg on the road. Definitely an added bonus. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleansubaru Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 hi i like your info from all. this is my first add to any posts . i have a 97 legacy out and had 95 leg , both stuttered at 1800 -2500 rpm . does this co-realate ? also it currently hums out of air box. any ideas? thanx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_rex Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 I had a conversation with KTR peroformance in MA yesterday, who has been flashing Subys with ECUtek for a couple years now. He confirmed that most of the power they are extracting is not from simply increasing boost, then fuel accordingly. Instead, because that the car runs pig rich, particulary at WOT, they are primarily targeting leaner a/f ratios and adjusted timing tables. where people are experiencing less severe "stuttering" after their aftermarket reflashes, I would suspect that some of the issue is related to the extra fuelling Subaru supplies in stock form. most of the graphs/data supplied here at LGT.com confirm this as well. stock dyno run. 9.5:1 AFR from 3500rpms to redline. http://www.legacygt.com/forums/atta...tachmentid=8578 final protuned dyno run 13:1 AFR falling to 11.5:1 at redline. http://www.legacygt.com/forums/show...ght=dyno+charts Stage I AFRs about 2 points leaner again. http://www.legacygt.com/forums/show...ght=dyno+charts Dan at Mach IV with his maps leaning out 2 pts to 11:1 http://www.legacygt.com/forums/show...yno+chart+graph dR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 hi i like your info from all. this is my first add to any posts . i have a 97 legacy out and had 95 leg , both stuttered at 1800 -2500 rpm . does this co-realate ? also it currently hums out of air box. any ideas? thanx Your issues are likely different than the issues experienced by the 2005 Legacy GT and Outbacks Turbo motor owners for which there is a Subaru of America ECU reflash. That is the central topic in this thread. Throttle body cleaning may help should resolve some of the stuttering your experiencing. Check this link... http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=375862 Also, the ground mod may also help with hesitation at the RPM range that you're experiencing problems. Here's another link... http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183280 Believe you have the airbox (with filter inside) and a direct piece going from there to a torque box with a little stubby section sticking out of that airway between the filter box and the torque box. If so, and the initial part of the intake system (the plenum ahead of the filter box) has been removed, then the stubby is probably where you're getting the "hum" sound from. Either re-install the initial intake piece (huge gob of plastic piping/boxes designed to reduce intake noise and smooth out the intake air turbulence) or replace the pipe (with stubby) between the filter box and the torque box with a direct pipe with no stubby. Air across the stubby (like blowing across the top of a bottle) is likely causing the hum. If you are not setup like this, then check all of your piping connections between the filter box and the throttle body intake and use some carb cleaner spray along the length of your intake to see where the air leak is coming from. Just spray the carb cleaner on the intake and if the noise changes or the engine rpms increase/decrease, then you've located the leak. Also, check the carb cleaner on an out of the way spot first to ensure that it doesn't hurt the plastic on the intake. Good luck! SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeedMoreBoost Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Is there a reference number I can give to my local dealer so they know what I'm talking about? I heard a couple people are having a hard time getting their dealership to acknowledge there is a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_rex Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 there is no TSB so far on this issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleansubaru Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 thanx ive done the ground, helped some . your right on about airbox. also i swapped out the egr transducer, that also helped. still kind of there. thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 I've now got over 1000 miles with the new programing. Still notice a difference...in a good way. Now that Subietonic mentions it.... i havn't noticed the grumbly idle anymore. Gas milage has gone down, but my floor it factor has gone up recently, so can't use that for anything. The car seems to get going from a stop much smoother as well. My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emlevins Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 Is there a reference number I can give to my local dealer so they know what I'm talking about? I heard a couple people are having a hard time getting their dealership to acknowledge there is a problem. Yes, this would help...or if those who have had this done could provide the name of the dealer with phone number. My dealer says a fix is available for 04 but not 05 Legacys...and I'd like to refer them to other dealers who have acknowledged and fixed this. 05 SWP Legacy GT Limited (aka "Pearl")- 5MT AP - Stage 2 Protuned (238/284) - wife driven 07 BMW 335xi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCDetails Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 I just got off the phone with my new dealership (I dumped the one I bought the car from) and they were totally familiar with the problem. They said that it was being called 'turbo surging' and they were totally aware of the solution. The service manager wanted to know when I was feeling it and I told him it was between 3 and 4 thousand RPM at any speed and in any gear. I compared it to an old Escort with a tank of bad gas and a plugged fuel filter and he said that sounds about right. I'm taking it in on Monday to have the ECU sent off for the reflash. I can't wait to get it back. Now that I have found a dealership that listens and understands some of this stuff I think I'll bring up the carpet hook, warped side mirror, and strange wear pattern on the front tires. edit: Nate Wade Subaru of Salt Lake City. They know what the problem is and they know how to fix it. Perhaps they could be persuaded to inform your dealership what the problem is in case you get greif from them. Another dealership in the state didn't know what I was talking about, but Nate Wade knew the problem and the solution well. They said the results of the reflash seem to be fixing the problem. _________________________________________ “Cleanliness becomes more important as godliness becomes more unlikely.” O C D E T A I L S . C O M OCDETAILS BLOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkscrn Posted August 11, 2005 Author Share Posted August 11, 2005 Picked up my car last night from dealer after having the ECU sent out for a reflash. Honestly, the car is idleing better and rides/accelerates smoother. EXCEPT during the same points of half-throttle/heavier throttle (2500-3500 rpm) where I still feel a stutter. However, I just got it and havent put many miles on it yet to see if it improves at all. I would say there is a mild difference for the better, however still notice the "stutter". Mine was never horrible to begin with, so maybe there wasnt much to improve in the first place....considering most still have a slight stutter thereafter anyhow? I was also reallly please with the cooperation with my dealer who at first hadnt a clue of this issue in the first place...so they got me a rental on monday and got my subie back on wednesday night, pretty quick. If it stays this way over the next 1000-1500 miles, I will probably bring it back in.... Joe Dealership: AMD Subaru, North Hampton, NH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCDetails Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 Dropped off the car today. They have had it since 7:00 am and they just called me at 2:00 pm to let me know they need to send the ECM to SOA-NJ to be fixed. Duh... Isn't that why they gave me the loaner car? Does anyone know what kind of diagnostics they perform on the car before they send it out? I hit 5000 miles on the odometer just as I pulled it into the service center, so if there are 5300 miles on it when I get it back then I guess I know what kind of testing was done. lol I'm just wondering if it could be extensive enough to spot an AP having been used at some point. _________________________________________ “Cleanliness becomes more important as godliness becomes more unlikely.” O C D E T A I L S . C O M OCDETAILS BLOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opie Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Does anyone know what kind of diagnostics they perform on the car before they send it out? I hit 5000 miles on the odometer just as I pulled it into the service center, so if there are 5300 miles on it when I get it back then I guess I know what kind of testing was done. lol I'm just wondering if it could be extensive enough to spot an AP having been used at some point. Diagnostic's is simply plugging in the Subaru Scan Tool and filling out a ECM Fact Sheet that includes the ECM's CID #. Then that sheet gets faxed to SOA's Tech Line, once this is faxed it's usually a couple of hours before the Tech Line responds, if the car is eligible for a reflash they fax back authorization & shipping info to the dealer. The dealer can't ship it until they get authorization. The dealer's diagnostic currently would not be able to detect the Accessport (or ECUtek, etc) had been installed...however if the reflash center runs a full inspection of the ECM before they reflash it they will be able to tell as anytime programming info is "re-written" it changes a checksum value in the ECM. Not sure if they really check though as they are flashing them. Normal turn-around time is 3 days (so if yours went out today, your car should be ready by Wednesday afternoon). Mine gets shipped out tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCDetails Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 That explains why it took awhile before they called me back and told me they had to send the ECM out to be flashed. I haven't bought an AP yet for this very reason though. The last thing I want to do is pay money to totally blow any warranty work on a computer that obviously is less than perfect yet. Oh well... As long as the stutter goes away then I'll be happy. Thanks again Opie for letting us know about this. I'm sure the dealerships aren't going to be calling people telling them to come in and have this kind of thing checked out, so it was nice to know about it so I could ask. The stutter is one of only a couple things that I really dislike about the car. I'm still 98% satisfied overall and the stutter fix will make me 99% happy. The paint I can live with and I have learned to live with the warped side mirror. Now if only my floor mat would stay put.... _________________________________________ “Cleanliness becomes more important as godliness becomes more unlikely.” O C D E T A I L S . C O M OCDETAILS BLOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkscrn Posted August 16, 2005 Author Share Posted August 16, 2005 I am about 500 miles post-reflash and I still have a stutter going on. This morning was about 55 degrees, so definitely NO humidity or heat to blame. It almost feels as if when you press the throttle (gas peddle) about mid-throttle range (as typical with this issue) that it almost takes a second to respond and when it does, it pulls...hesitates/bucks, then pulls again. It is quite difficult to determine if it is much better or not than before the REFLASH. I will give it another 500-1000 miles before I stroll back on over to my dealership.....which Im assuming wont be pretty. Questions/comments/Ideas/Suggestions.....are more than welcome! Thanks, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 After 2 hours of my time, Morrie's Brooklyn Park Subaru is now aware of the problem! They didn't just listen to me the first time, which pissed me off since I knew the service manager personally. Hell, he even personally escorted me back to their lead tech when I said "Right, you didn't find the TSB because there isn't one. You have to call the tech line to find out how to diagnose it." 15 minutes later they said they'd send the ECU in for the reflash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCDetails Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 I just got my car back and I have to say that I notice a huge improvement. The largest improvement that I notice is the idle and the first gear response. What I though was just my poor driving with a new clutch turned out to be whatever got fixed with this reflash. The car idles smoothly now and the start from first gear is waaaaay more smooth. I caught the car stuttering a couple times at 80 mph when I try to accelerate further, but that isn't a big deal. It doesn't do it at all durring the city driving that I did to get back to work and that is the important part. Whatever they did certianly did work. It is like driving a whole other car. Going from the 2.5i all week back to my GT is a sweet sweet experience. That 2.5i is nothing I would brag about to anybody. It has a lot of room for improvement... I guess that is why they made the GT. _________________________________________ “Cleanliness becomes more important as godliness becomes more unlikely.” O C D E T A I L S . C O M OCDETAILS BLOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallispec Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 OCD, how many miles have you put on it since the reflash? do you think it will re-appear after a day or two? Keep us updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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