PhilT Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 I decided this was quite a cheap and easy mod, one that I could handle fairly easily, and from what I have read gives a reasonable return on the investment, but more of that later. The instructions that came with the pulley were reasonable, although I found the "Vacation Pics" far more useful, definately worth looking at before starting. After removing the engine cover, and front air intake section, it was very easy to slacken the belts off and remove them. I don't have access to a belt tension measurement device, so what I did was to measure the deflection on the longest run of each belt with a good press of my thumb, and use that as a reference. Make sure you slacken the belts right off and don't try to pry them the last little bit. Now for the painful part: with the car in 5th gear and the handbrake tight on, use a 22mm socket on the pulley centre bolt and with the longest lever you can find pull as hard as you can. The first time I tried this my hand slipped and took the skin off the back of my hand, so after cleaning up and this time wearing gloves, I puilled even harder and the bolt cracked loose. Take the bolt out, and with both hands slide the pulley off, don't try to pry from one side as you can crack the plastic engine cover behind it. As you slide it off, keep an eye out for the shaft key, which may or may not fall out, it didn't for me though. Clean the end of the shaft up with a clean lint free rag, if you look inside you can see the timing belt. Slide the new pulley onto the shaft, taking note where the keyway is for alignment. Put a drop of oil on the bolt threads and on the underside of the bolt head. Then tighten up finger loosely. This part confused me, as the Perrin instructions stated the tightening torque should be 90 ft-lbs, but the manual states 132 ft-lbs. I know there is s difference in the material, but I can't understand why the big difference, maybe someone can point it out ? Anyway, going by the manual, I went to 130. I wouldn't advise doing this without a torque wrench, as 130 is very tight, and it would be hard to try and guess. Replace the belts and tighten until you have the same deflection as before. replace the belt cover, the engine cover and the intake. Then go drive ! My first impressions are that the engine seems to rev quicker now, the gas pedal seems more sensitive. Of course this might be because I've read that this should happen, but it does feel that way. The local track is closed for the winter now, so I can't prove any performance improvement, but my butt is happy ! Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 Nice write-up. Thanks. Any drive-ability diff? Is it easier to stall the car starting out. Will my wife notice? Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted October 29, 2005 Author Share Posted October 29, 2005 Nice write-up. Thanks. Any drive-ability diff? Is it easier to stall the car starting out. Will my wife notice? No change in driveability, just seems to rev quicker. No reason to stall it at all, it doesn't feel any different setting off, just when you floor it the needle climbs faster. No way she will notice, mine hasn't noticed any change from stock even though I'm at AP stg.1. I just drive accordingly when she is in the car. Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firedawgs Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 I just installed my Perrin crank pulley last weekend. The biggest difference is that I have a 5EAT. With the AT trans there is no way to stop the flywheel except for one, that I found. I took off the intercooler; which was easy. There is a rubber plug almost directly straight down from the intercooler. There I ended up using two screw drivers place in the flywheel to stop the mass movement. The biggest problem in taking off the stock crank pulley is the mass muscle to loosen it up. It took all of me and my ass to loosen the stock crank pulley bolt, while a buddy was holding the screwdrivers in place. Once it was loose the rest of the job is "cake". Reinstalling the belts was done by eye and feel. Luckily I had a buddy (dv8ingvector with me) that has a LGT. So I went and checked his stock belt tension by hand and tighten my own belt. Checked and double checked, then I was good to go. As far as I am on modding I can not tell you if the pulley alone did anything, but I have seen dyno prof that it does something. That is why I chose to do mine. PhilT and myself, MT and AT will show you enough for the non mechanical mind to accomplish this simple but effect mod. If anyone needs help, PM me and I will help you through this. "Cake" firedawgs......Sean Updated my vBGarage: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eL GaTo Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 PhilT.........the reason Perrin recommended 90 ft-lbs is because of the aluminum. As we all know, this metal is a lot softer than the stock steel. "Remember..."MODDING is a HOBBY:icon_bigg, not a BAAAD HABIT";) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted October 29, 2005 Author Share Posted October 29, 2005 I agree that aluminium is weaker than steel in tension and shear stresses, but this in is compression where there is not a great deal of difference. I would be interested in anyone who has a Cobb or other LWP, what they recommend. Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eL GaTo Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 I agree that aluminium is weaker than steel in tension and shear stresses, but this in is compression where there is not a great deal of difference. I would be interested in anyone who has a Cobb or other LWP, what they recommend. I have an "Unorthodox Racing" stock diameter pulley. Recommended torque was at least 90 ft-lbs. "Remember..."MODDING is a HOBBY:icon_bigg, not a BAAAD HABIT";) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudfoot Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 I torqued mine to 94lbs... The vacation pics say 130.. but that heavy ass stock one can take that torque... i figured 4 more lbs wouldnt kill it. I guess they say 90 because its light weight... I have the Perrin pulley Got Torque ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim1969 Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 do you need to change any belts with the perrin pulley? I know you do with the unorthodox powersteering and crank pullies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eL GaTo Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 do you need to change any belts with the perrin pulley? I know you do with the unorthodox powersteering and crank pullies. With stock size pulley, you do not need to change belts. With "under drive" pulley.....meaning smaller in diameter than stock, you need to change belts. "Remember..."MODDING is a HOBBY:icon_bigg, not a BAAAD HABIT";) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim1969 Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 yes that's usually true but unorthodox required new a new belt for the lightened pulleys and 2 belts I believe for the underdriven ones. something about the design of the pulley. http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=212904&postcount=23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eL GaTo Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 yes that's usually true but unorthodox required new a new belt for the lightened pulleys and 2 belts I believe for the underdriven ones. something about the design of the pulley. http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=212904&postcount=23 I have Unothodox Racing "stock" size lightened crank pulley only. It does not require new belts. Even if you have the set of lightened pulleys as long as all the diameters of the pulleys are the same as stock then you do not need new belts. The grooves on the pulleys are the same as the stock belt grooves. "Remember..."MODDING is a HOBBY:icon_bigg, not a BAAAD HABIT";) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim1969 Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 I think the belt is required if you got the power steering pulley. How do you like the unorthodox pully? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eL GaTo Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 I think the belt is required if you got the power steering pulley. How do you like the unorthodox pully? I do not know exactly what you have or what you are getting, but I do have just the lightened crank stock size pulley. The stock belt is re-used. You really can't go wrong with the popular brand names. The UR is well made and they have been around for a while. "Remember..."MODDING is a HOBBY:icon_bigg, not a BAAAD HABIT";) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blkwag Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 If I'm not mistaking that the harmonick ballencer is located on the pully. So threre for would the have pre mature wear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim1969 Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 subaru doesn't harmonic balanced pulleys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted November 15, 2005 Author Share Posted November 15, 2005 The OEM pulley is dampened by the inner and outer diameters being separated by a rubber element. Without it more vibrations will be transmitted to the belts but I haven't heard of any failures due to this. On the other hand I have seen pics of the pulley on an SVX in pieces due to the rubber giving up the ghost, but that must have been 10 years old or more. Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eL GaTo Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 The OEM pulley is dampened by the inner and outer diameters being separated by a rubber element. Without it more vibrations will be transmitted to the belts but I haven't heard of any failures due to this. On the other hand I have seen pics of the pulley on an SVX in pieces due to the rubber giving up the ghost, but that must have been 10 years old or more. Checkout this post from NASIOC regarding the Subaru pulleys..... http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=444518 "Remember..."MODDING is a HOBBY:icon_bigg, not a BAAAD HABIT";) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted November 15, 2005 Author Share Posted November 15, 2005 Yeah, I read that before buying the Perrin pulley, doesn't seem to be conclusive though. But as the post says, even if it is a balancer, which personaly I doubt as it doesn't look like the one on the drawing, there are no commonly published failures which reassures me. The rubber seperation element is there for something though, and to dampen the vibrations seems a pretty good reason. Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firedawgs Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 But, again you can look at the other side of the story and hear/see the stories of the stock pulley seperating; causing serious damage. Updated my vBGarage: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
createdtodestry Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 not to insult anyone, but i have read elsewhere too that people have put their car in 5th and loosened the nut. it might be a better idea to put the car in 1st. since the gearing is lower it would be harder to turn the crank, and nearly impossible with the e-brake on, so you wont have to worry about the crank moving when you are trying to get the nut off. if you dont believe me try pushing your car when its in 5th and when its in 1st. i havent done this mod yet but i plan to purchase the perrin pully in the next month or so. anyone have any dyno charts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wms291 Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 The directions from Perrin tell you to use 5th. When in 5th the engine is seeing the most load. On my WRX I didn't read the directions first and tried to do it in 1st using a 5 foot cheater bar. No go. Decided to look at the directions, put it in 5th. Popped off with no problems. Just requires alot of ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted November 28, 2005 Author Share Posted November 28, 2005 not to insult anyone, but i have read elsewhere too that people have put their car in 5th and loosened the nut. it might be a better idea to put the car in 1st. since the gearing is lower it would be harder to turn the crank, and nearly impossible with the e-brake on, so you wont have to worry about the crank moving when you are trying to get the nut off. if you dont believe me try pushing your car when its in 5th and when its in 1st. i havent done this mod yet but i plan to purchase the perrin pully in the next month or so. anyone have any dyno charts? You haven't insulted anyone, but I do suggest you try this before going any further with your line of thought. In first gear, you can easily turn the engine while trying to loosen the pulley bolt, I know, I did it. In 5th, there's no way the engine will turn and with lots of grunt, the bolt comes loose, again, I know 'cos I did it. The analogy of pushing your car is the exact opposite of what you are doing by turning the pulley, ie you are moving the car to turn the engine, whereas when removing the pulley you are turning the engine to move the car. Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
createdtodestry Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 oh, sorry guys. yea i was thinking of trying to move the wheels. yea i guess that makes sence. well im glad i was informed befor trying it myself. thanks i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadAndy Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 I did mine the quick yet dangerous way. Set up a 1" wrench on the ratchet so that it rested on part of the car that doesn't move (and the right direction of course) and cranked the car. As soon as I turned the key I could that the bolt had popped loose...I checked and nothing was damaged, only the bolt was loose and I didn't have to put any"ass" into it ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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