Flashing CEL, comes and goes

[Sweet Mercy]

Update as of 1/7/2013, 1566 miles since plug change. Car is actually running stronger than it has in a long time. Gas mileage is down from around 22-23, mixed driving to 20-21. I guess the car is running more rich than it should but man is it strong!

Update as of 12/31. 1,223 miles since below mentioned changed of plugs. Car still running strong and idling smoothly.

Update as of 12/20. 953 miles since the change to Bosch copper plugs. No CEL's or issues to report. Car is still as smooth as butter.

Update as of 12/5. 230 miles on change to Bosch copper spark plugs and no CEL or issues.

 

Yep, flashing CEL, not constant and no flashing cruise. I will be as brief as possible on this but I'd really appreciate some input before I drop the car off Monday to be checked further.

 

05 GT, 5AT. 119K. I had a previous thread about a random CEL which was a cylinder 2 misfire but I haven't had the issue for a while--over 2k miles.

 

Yesterday while cruising around 55 and started to climb a small hill, the car started shuttering. If I let off the gas it cleared up but the second I touched the pedal, the entire car started trembling. I quickly pulled over and the problem cleared up. No CEL at this point.

 

I drove on to work, no issues. Leaving work after about 10 minutes of driving, the shake/tremble is back and the CEL starts flashing but no flashing cruise like before and typically the CEL was NOT flashing but now it is. Car has NO power. I pull over, wait a couple mintues, the flashing CEL goes off, car clears up and I take off because I'm only a few minutes from home.

 

Another mile down the road, CEL flashing, car trembling when I press the gas pedal. I pull over, put it in neutral and it wants to die. Sounds like it's missing horribly. But wait, it clears up, running smooth. I'm so close to home, I take a back road and the car is running like a top. I open it up, out of curiosity, the turbo kicks in, sets me back in my seat and runs like the day I bought it 7 years ago. A couple miles from home, the shake/tremble is back, the flashing CEL is back so at this point, I'm getting annoyed how it's coming and going and said, screw it, if it blows it blows.

 

Yet again, the car smooths out, the flashing CEL goes off and I kick it down again but this time, I don't get pushed back into my seat. It's like the turbo isn't working. The car is NOT shaking/trembling/missing but it is way down on power. A mile or so away from home it's again running like new. Then I turn into my driveway, yep, flashing CEL, shaking, trembling etc... Pull into the garage and the car is idling but sounds like it's missing. I pop the hood, and it smelled like something was really hot or burning. All the gauges inside were good, no other lights, no oil pressure light, nothing.

 

Started the car this morning and it's rough. Shaking/trembling/missing so I turn it off. I had already called the local shop yesterday and scheduled an appt. They are getting it in Monday. But even with the car shaking/missing this morning, there were NO CEL's which I thought was odd.

 

When I was having the random cylinder 2 misfire, I had a local engine builder do a compression/leak down test etc and everything was great so if anyone has any ideas of what this could be, please let me know.

 

Much appreciated!

[Max Capacity]

1st guess is a vacuum leak, a crack in a hose.

 

Can you do a boost leak test ?

 

Use a pint size paint can to plug the big hose off the air filter box, witha air compressor give ashort blast of air into the small line off the BOV then put you thumb over the hose, listen for leaks.

[Sweet Mercy]

I was talking to a guy last night and he said the same thing. He also said, it could be a fueling issue such as a clogged fuel filter, moisture in the lines or bad injectors. I'm baffled as to how it kept clearing up and running like new. I would think if it was catastrophic it wouldn't have kept clearing up but I'm no mechanic.

[racso_dor]

this could be a very long shot, but maybe bad coil packs??

[SCASEYS]

Tb hose?

Stuck tgv's?

[xt2005bonbon]

I'd check for boost leaks first. If you continue having misfire in a specific cylinder, then I'd swap injectors and see if the misfire follows. If it's not the injector, then check coil pack and spark plug. If the problem persists, then time for leak down and compression test. Some people advise to do the latter first.

 

I would also check what the CEL code is before doing anything of course.

[Sweet Mercy]

I'd check for boost leaks first. If you continue having misfire in a specific cylinder, then I'd swap injectors and see if the misfire follows. If it's not the injector, then check coil pack and spark plug. If the problem persists, then time for leak down and compression test. Some people advise to do the latter first.

 

I would also check what the CEL code is before doing anything of course.

 

 

When I was having the random cyl 2 misfire, I had the compression/leak down test and everything was good.

[xt2005bonbon]

When I was having the random cyl 2 misfire, I had the compression/leak down test and everything was good.

 

I would consider that great news. Then I'd first pull the CEL code if it is still possible, and then go from there.

[Sweet Mercy]

Well oh well. I guess after 7.5 years and 119K, one time on the trailer isn't too bad. The car finally gave up -- mostly. I let it rest all weekend since it started really acting up last Wednesday. As I loaded at the house then unloaded at the garage it was still shaking/vibrating badly. No flashing CEL, no constant CEL. Just a lot of missing. I sure hope it's nothing major, especially right around the holidays. I'd rather spend my money on friends/family. On a good note, my truck pulled it and didn't break a sweat.

[MAP]

Any updates on this? It sounds like an intermittent ignition issue. My guess is a bad wire or connection to the coil packs, or intermittent connection in a coil pack.

[Sweet Mercy]

Positive news so far. I was told cylinder 3 was not firing at all when I dropped it off and there was a strong smell of gasoline. He put a new spark plug in 3, fired it up and it idled smoothly. As of now, the spark plug fouled out and replacing it seems to have fixed the issue. He's keeping it this morning to put a few miles on it to make sure it keeps running correctly.

 

Now.... this will not be a popular decision. Yesterday, he changed plugs 1 and 3 and put Bosch high performance copper core spark plugs and it fired up great. This morning he's going to change 2/4. It will not have the Iridium plug by NGK like it calls for. He is well aware of my concern about not using the NGK Iridium OEM plugs.

 

He said he's run into this before when cars get some age on them and for whatever reason (I didn't understand) certain vehicles perform better with the copper plug. He said he has done this several times before when performance type cars called for certain plugs like Iridium or Titanium and switching to the copper plug made all the difference. Something about the car doesn't burn as clean as when it was new etc....again I didn't understand his explanation but the guy is sharp and knows his stuff.

 

I'm willing to try it and see if it fixes my intermittent misfires that have plagued me since the 100K tune up. I will update after I get the car back and have a few days to drive it.

[Max Capacity]

Ok, It sounds like the car is on the stock MAP still.

 

You should check the local forum here and find a Tuner in your area or use one of the Tuners here and get the car off the stock MAP.

 

You mention since the 100K tune up. The plugs get changed every 60K.

 

You still may have a coil pack issue too.

[Sweet Mercy]

Ok, It sounds like the car is on the stock MAP still.

 

You should check the local forum here and find a Tuner in your area or use one of the Tuners here and get the car off the stock MAP.

 

You mention since the 100K tune up. The plugs get changed every 60K.

 

You still may have a coil pack issue too.

 

 

It is 100% stock. I did get frisky one day last year and dropped a K/N filter in it, It has since been removed.

 

I'm in the middle of nowhere but I'll look and see if there are any Tuners in this area.

 

Since 2005, I've taken it to the local Subaru dealer and they've done all the maintenance on the car. I honestly don't remember if the plugs had ever been changed or not. I would guess yes just because they typically did everything recommended by Subaru. I know they did at 100K because they did the timing belt etc.

 

Why are so many people in favor of having them Tuned? Yes, I'm lacking information/knowledge in this area. Is is a performance thing, a gas mileage thing, a durability thing????

 

I sure hope the coil is ok. As you are aware, they are well over $200.

[Max Capacity]

The Tuners have found a timing flaw that can cause burnt valves.

 

My machine shop buddy, dose a lot of these heads for the different dealers and repair shops in CT. When I told him about the timing flaw, he said, "oh, that explains it, why see see so many with bad valves.

 

My 05 has been on Cobb AP since 8000 miles. When he rebuilt my heads this past May, he said mine was the first one of these heads that didn't need any valves of guide work.

 

My Tuner has also found a the same flaw on the 5th gen's.

 

BTW, I have had a Perrin panel filter in the wagon since about 3000 miles.

[Sweet Mercy]

The Tuners have found a timing flaw that can cause burnt valves.

 

My machine shop buddy, dose a lot of these heads for the different dealers and repair shops in CT. When I told him about the timing flaw, he said, "oh, that explains it, why see see so many with bad valves.

 

My 05 has been on Cobb AP since 8000 miles. When he rebuilt my heads this past May, he said mine was the first one of these heads that didn't need any valves of guide work.

 

My Tuner has also found a the same flaw on the 5th gen's.

 

BTW, I have had a Perrin panel filter in the wagon since about 3000 miles.

 

 

So basically I would purchase this:

COBB Stage 1 Power Package for Legacy GT 05-06(COBB AP-SUB-002)

 

for around $700, plug it into the cars OBDII port, follow the on screen instructions and in about 10 minutes or so, I would gain 35HP and 40 lb/ft?? And not worry or worry as much about a burnt valve??

 

I wouldn't have to change the exhaust/air intake or anything?

 

My biggest concern is that my wifes Legacy would then be quicker than my Tundra

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ehsnils]

If you foul your plugs it's either caused by oil or by incorrect mixture.

 

A compression test should reveal if you have serious problems. But if the compression test is good I would check the injectors - old injectors can cause bad behavior.

 

So before throwing a tune at the car you should check that it's in a decent condition. Otherwise you just waste money.

[Sweet Mercy]

If you foul your plugs it's either caused by oil or by incorrect mixture.

 

A compression test should reveal if you have serious problems. But if the compression test is good I would check the injectors - old injectors can cause bad behavior.

 

So before throwing a tune at the car you should check that it's in a decent condition. Otherwise you just waste money.

 

 

Had a compression/leak down test a few weeks ago. Everything checked out great. Then all the missing started which was cylinder 3. The guy just called and said he changed all the plugs and drove it about 15 miles and the car was running great. I have no idea if that is enough miles to know whether it's something else or not. I'll see how it behaves on my ride home this afternoon. Thanks for your input.

Can you describe what to look for on the injectors??

[Max Capacity]

The injector could be still be the issue. You will know in a few 1000 miles if the miss comes back in the same cylinder.

 

May be pour a few can's of injector cleaner in over the next few tank fulls.

 

 

If you good with a lap top you can buy the $30.00 cable, buy a emap from a Tuner and save some money.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/tuning-alliance-121.html

 

Oh, I guess you don't know about supercharger for the Tundra's...? 550hp or something like that.

[Sweet Mercy]

The injector could be still be the issue. You will know in a few 1000 miles if the miss comes back in the same cylinder.

 

May be pour a few can's of injector cleaner in over the next few tank fulls.

 

 

If you good with a lap top you can buy the $30.00 cable, buy a emap from a Tuner and save some money.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/tuning-alliance-121.html

 

Oh, I guess you don't know about supercharger for the Tundra's...? 550hp or something like that.

 

Preaching to the choir my friend. Just don't have the funds for the SC--yet . Toyota claims 381 to 505hp and 401 to 550 lb/ft.

 

As far as the car, I only have about 75 miles on the new plugs. So far so good but that may be a different story with more miles.

 

I will attest to this, I had complained for as long as I can remember to my local Subara dealer that the car idled rough. I think I even mentioned it on here in a separate thread.

 

Anyway, at normal operating temp and in neutral or park the car idled rough. What I was told was that it was normal for the boxer engine.

 

With a change of plugs, the car idles so smoothly, you can't even tell it's running except for the noise of the engine. Yesterday after picking up the car, running it a few miles and stopping at a red light, my wife says "ok, what else did they do to the car"? I said, plugs only. She said c'mon honey what else did they do? I said why do you ask, she said "what do you feel"? I'm like OMG the car is smooth as butter!!!!

 

If you have the radio on or the heater, you do NOT realize the car is idling. It is that smooth. I can only hope it continues to operate like this. If it changes, I will update, but for now, the car has never been more smooth.

[xt2005bonbon]

I will update, but for now, the car has never been more smooth.

 

Good to hear. Hopefully it stays this way.

[Max Capacity]

Sounds like it idling like "normal" now. See the dealer was right, idle is normal.

 

 

Most Americans have come to hate the phrase "Oh, that's normal for these cars".

[Sweet Mercy]

Pushing close to 1K miles since change to Bosch copper plugs. Car is still buttery smooth and no CEL's or issues to report.

 

On a separate note, I've been in contact with Boxer4Racing in NC. They are offering the following and just curious what you guys think:

 

Cobb AccessPORT for 2004-2007 Subaru 2.5L Turbo models 1 557.38 557.38T

Cobb Down Pipe for Legacy GT Turbo AT 1 595.00 595.00T

Invidia 02+ WRX/STi/LGT Uppipe. 1 149.99 149.99T

GrimmSpeed Header Gasket for Subaru 'Pair' 1 16.99 16.99T

GrimmSpeed Header to Up-pipe Gasket 1 10.99 10.99T

GrimmSpeed Turbo Inlet Gasket for Subaru 1 11.99 11.99T

GrimmSpeed Turbo Outlet Gasket1 16.99 16.99T

Labor Rate Install parts listed above 4.5 80.00 360.00

Total: $1,811.08 with Tax.

 

Since I have NO idea of what a good up-pipe or down-pipe would be, do you folks think these would be good parts to use??

They are telling me I could gain 30-40% in hp and tq with the stage 2.

[ttnio]

Get that favorite cc and swipe away. Its Christmas to one's self .No need to wait any longer. Soon it will be a new year...

[JmP6889928]

My experience with the same thing was failing coil packs on not one, but two cylinders. The problem is that they would work fine under minimal load conditions, but once on the gas hard, the CEL would flash without crippling the cruise control, and not set a hard code. I would experiment with coil packs.

 

Purchase one, and start by putting int on cylinder one and drive the car into the conditions that normally set off the flashing CEL and if it still does it, change it back to the original and install the new one on cylinder two, and keep going until you find the one that seems to be the problem. You can go to the Subaru service manual and find the values of the coil packs and sit down with DVOM and begin to check, but unfortunately, this rarely shows a load based breakdown.