PPower Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 OK, if it's going to come up, lets at least devote a thread to it instead of having to lump it in one thread like the other place. First and foremost, the bumper won't deter me from buying a Legacy. I don't like it as much as the other countries', but it's not a deal breaker. Second, what I really want is an explanation from Subaru as to why they made the changes, but I don't think that they will cop up to their real reason. As someone educated in marketing, I find the internal positioning and intended targets fascinating, and these factors affected the change without a doubt. I have come up with a couple of scenarios, and it could be a mixture or all of the reasons. For pretty much all of these, I am taking the perspective of most dealers who want to sell as many units as they can and what it takes to do so. I understand that we may have quibbles with one thing, dealers have their own complaints that may center around the Legacy not having grown enough in the interior. Have you noticed that Subaru still hasn't given out useful interior dimensions? I think that there is a discrepency between what the perceived competition of the Legacy is. We enthusiasts haven't come to a consensus ourselves. Could it be that Subaru wants the car to compare to more premium cars like Volvo, Saab, Infiniti, TSX (JDM Accord), etc. and SoA wants it to go against the higher volume Accord, Camry, Maxima? I think so. I think that SoA is trying to position the car differently than Subaru in any other country. This is like trying to put a square into a round hole. A big strike against Subaru is size which tends to increase in desire when their want for higher hp decreases. We enthusiasts want hp and can understand if the package has to be smaller to be lighter as well. Subaru is somewhat limited because the US Maxima and Accord (Camry as well?) are mainly made for the US and are larger to meet those needs. Subaru makes one car for the world, and it is like taking the TSX and trying to say it's as roomy as the US Accord. The Legacy is at the absolute maximum width for it's tax class in Japan, so it cannot grow any more without causing a class jump in Japan. 1. Subaru is going after the "safety" name like a lower priced Volvo. Note the new side curtain airbags for one thing. They found out what getting top ratings for crash/bumper tests did for the Forester, and they want that same benefit to the Legacy. So USDM gets big bumpers to fare better in crash tests. Having rave reviews on crash testing will help the sales to the average Joe more than the better looks. Insurance should be cheaper. This assumes that larger bumpers are REQUIRED to get the "good" rating even though the Neon and VW Beetle specifically manage it with their seemingly smaller bumpers. The Forester got its best in class marks for a light SUV. A mid-size car has much more fierce competition, so maye bigger is needed to be #1. 2. Let's assume that, like the aforementioned Neon/Beetle, good performance could be achieved with EDM bumpers. Then why would the car need to be lengthened? To look larger/longer of course (as it does and is). Maybe to compete against the Maxima/Accord/Camry, SoA wanted to be able to show a car that comes closer to matching their dimensions at least on paper. The ignorance of the majority of buyers is amazing, and many would probably "fall" for that trick. 3. I'm coming to believe that maybe the extra length isn't as bad as just the change in the bumper design itself rather than the extension. Note the recessed area around the foglights rather than the more flush area on the JDM/EDM bumpers. The "tooth" in th middle looks more like the current outgoing Legacy bumper. Remember our bumper concerns back when spy shots were taken on the highway? I think that if the bumpers were extended but had the same design when looking from the front, the change may not be as shocking. Again, taking the perspective of the dealers, could it be that they would prefer more visable ties to the old Legacy? Wouldn't it stink to find out that they were extended just to make the car *seem* bigger against the competition? We may never know the truth, but I plan to write Subaru once the big hype has died down in hopes of getting a better and accurate response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tide Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Would I prefer the JDM bumper? Yes. Will it stop me from getting the car? No. My bets are on safety and US regs. Its a significant amount of time and money just to change the bumper for any other reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akm3 Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Good points PPOWER! I never thought of the 'make it seem bigger' argument. That is plausible! Other then 'required to pass more strigent crash requirements', it seems the most likely candidate. I guess we need some folks to import the JDM bumper and get in 5mph collisions and see what happens: then we will know. -Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Call me a quibbler, but I was rather hoping the bumper stuff would stay away from here. I don't think it matters at all, and there are so many other things to talk about as regards a first-class new Legacy. Then again, I prefer the new bumpers, as they look less stubby. Their effect elongates the entire silhouette of the car. But there's just so much rancor attached to the b-word, and none of it really enhances anything. We're getting the bumpers that we're getting, period, and I want it to be all about the Legacy love, y'all. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Zevil Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 All this bumper stuff is silly. I am with you Tide. I think that Subaru did what it had to in order to make the car meet US requirements. The other theory that there was critisism of the front facia lacks definition (can't remember the source). They might have tried to kill two birds with one stone by elongating the front facia and increasing bumper strength. Who knows though. I think it looks sweet either way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPower Posted January 13, 2004 Author Share Posted January 13, 2004 (edit: Kevin, I can't call you a quibbler. You're Sir Mix-a-Lot. Don't you remember?) Point taken, Kevin. I just figured there might as well be a dedicated thread so that any talk of the b-word can be done here without "offending" anybody in the other threads. It is a topic that will most certainly die down given a bit of time. It doesn't have to get ugly and negative, but people are entitle to express their opinion one way or another. Those that don't want to read about it can easily disregard the thread without interruption to the others. Then again, maybe this is like an accident that you know you don't need to look, but you can't help but stare. :lol: Some people will feel the need to get it out of their system, so let this be the outlet. In all honesty, if there are no comments of "quit talking about it" or "I don't see what the big deal is" or "Doesn't look any different to me", I bet the topic would die down surprisingly fast. There is only so much to say, so it kinda stops if there is nobody to counter the idea. It was Anthony Winston (anotherb4) who mentioned that the USDM had more character to him. I know that Paul also feels the same way. Could it be another case of wanting what you don't have? Maybe so. I hope I didn't come off negative as that wasn't my intention. As I wrote, I'm more interested in understanding. Aside from any length difference, the style is different. I just wonder why SoA wanted to keep more of the old Legacy look in the bumper when every other market did not. Not that any of us will even be able to say for sure, so it will remain an unanswered question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPower Posted January 13, 2004 Author Share Posted January 13, 2004 [quote name='akm3']I guess we need some folks to import the JDM bumper and get in 5mph collisions and see what happens: then we will know. -Allen[/quote] :lol: Do you want to be the first volunteer? Seriously, it may be interest to see exactly what is beneath the bumper cover and see if the bumper beam itself is larger in a way that makes it stick out further. This will have to wait until they start arriving and we get bold people to take off their bumper covers in the US/Canada and another in different country. It would be really interesting to discover what lies beneath the skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJ20H-TT Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Just a quick thought - these sort of things sometimes look better or worse depending on color and lighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPower Posted January 13, 2004 Author Share Posted January 13, 2004 I agree about the color. For that reason, I may now consider black even though it is a beeyotch to keep clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Zevil Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 The only think I hate worse than the bumpers on the legacy is... [size=7]... THE REPETITIVE BUMPER POSTS!! [/size] Whew... that did make me feel better, thanks! :lol::lol: Just kidding. I don't really care anymore about the whining now that we have a FORUM that represents the legacy instead of just one thread that is being bombarded by negative bumper comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Zevil Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 [quote name='PPower']I agree about the color. For that reason, I may now consider black even though it is a beeyotch to keep clean.[/quote] To tell you the truth I thought that the black looked the worst with the new bumper. I as partial to the silver because you could really see the lines of the car. Just my $0.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMT4SWA Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 HANDS DOWN!!! U.S. spec front bumper is a 1000 times better design...look at the U.S. spec lower center front bumper wrap cut-out area and how it is "united" in design to the upper front grill cut-out area...they compliment each other from a design stand point (the JDM front bumper has a long horizontally positioned "smiley face mouth" center cut-out that does not at all tie into any thing north of the front bumper piece itself). The second "positive" for the U.S. spec front bumper is the more sophisticated positioning and istallation of the front fog lamps (we get a multipiece fog lamp install with a very good looking "surround" section, that fits the bumper around the actual lamp itself...looks very good!). The JDM front bumper fog lamp install looks very much like the fog lamp placement from all these cheap body kit vendors you see in all the tuner mag's...YUCK! :roll: I will gladly take the U.S. spec bumpers...HANDS DOWN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akm3 Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Hey, by keeping it contained to this thread, collateral damage is greatly reduced....kiiiiiiiind of like having larger bumpers! -Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPower Posted January 13, 2004 Author Share Posted January 13, 2004 AMT4SWA, I think that you are referring to the Spec B bumper because you said "smiley face". Their regular GT looks a lot like ours with the finished piece around the foglight as well. A difference that I notice is that there is more flush area on their GT bumper whereas ours is more recessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMT4SWA Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 PPower...yes the spec B front looks very bad. The U.S. front bumper just looks very bold and the lower cut-out and fog lamp area looks extremely aggressive the way it ties into the overall piece. I really like the horizontal flat extended area on the U.S. bumper just below the front grill...it showcases the great new front grill design (just wait how great this area will showcase any future more aggressive grill mods...like a future STI grill). The old "blunt nose" look is "out" from a design stand point and the depth of the U.S. front bumpers gives our GT a more purposeful look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tide Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 I smell a group buy for bumpers coming on when these things ship. :twisted: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Zevil Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 I just don't know if the bumper is the thing that makes the car look strange. i think it could be the huge orange side markers that they have on the US headlight version. If anything I think once those are toned down it will bring back the look of the front. I knew that we wouldn't be able to get those lamps. [img]http://www.need-desire.com/WallpaperLegacy/800x600/Legacy10.jpg[/img] As compared too: [img]http://www.subiegal.com/images/events/2004_naias/2005_subaru_GT2.JPG[/img] See what I am saying. It kinda constricts the front of the car.[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Zevil Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 Here is another closeup of the JDM headlamp. Not sure if this is the same for the EDM model or not. [img]http://www.need-desire.com/WallpaperLegacy/800x600/Legacy8.jpg[/img] Also notice the lack of chrome around the grill. The chrome doesn't bother me because that can be fixed.. it just adds to some of the subtle differences in the front of the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Zevil Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 Here is a closeup of the USDM headlamp.. [img]http://www.subiegal.com/images/events/2004_naias/2005_subaru_GT_headlamp.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPower Posted January 14, 2004 Author Share Posted January 14, 2004 If you see pictures of the EDM and JDM 3.0R, they have the chrome trim around the grill opening. The orange corners should be able to be taken care of with the oven treatment like the WRX lights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Zevil Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 [quote name='PPower']If you see pictures of the EDM and JDM 3.0R, they have the chrome trim around the grill opening. The orange corners should be able to be taken care of with the oven treatment like the WRX lights.[/quote] I didn't notice the chrome on those models. On another note, people who complain about the lack of HID should be happy that we are at least getting projector lamps. The addition of HIDs will be much more effective than just dropping them into the WRX lamps for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPower Posted January 14, 2004 Author Share Posted January 14, 2004 [quote name='"Dr. Zevil"'] I didn't notice the chrome on those models. quote] Go to the gallery on need-desire.com. Those are 3.0R models and are NOT for the US. You can tell because of the smaller b-word. Or, I just figured out where I can hotlink it: [img]http://www.need-desire.com/WallpaperLegacy/800x600/Legacy2.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tide Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 I was looking there earlier today, all their images are of non USDM models. Very poor effort IMHO. As a web designer I'd never do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Zevil Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 There you go! I really never noticed that in that picture. I have looked at it dozens of times... too funny. I still like the sportier non-chrome look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Zevil Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 [quote name='Tide']I was looking there earlier today, all their images are of non USDM models. Very poor effort IMHO. As a web designer I'd never do that.[/quote] Yeah, I noticed that the other day. That sux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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