Cobb Accessport & ECUTek Info LOOK HERE FIRST!

[SUBE555]

Since there are tons of threads often about similar questions about the Accessport and ECUTek reflash technologies, we need a simple place to answer the most common questions. Look below for answer to some of our most frequently asked questions about both of the products, starting with the most recent.

Questions can be added below, the question and a suitable answer will be answered by either a moderator or another member and the thread will be edited to keep things as clean and concise as possible.

Jedimaster's Accessport Walkthrough (http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5888)

What is required for Cobb Stage 2 level?
It is highly recommended that you use a full turbo-back, but a downpipe alone is where most gains by themselves are made and essentially any aftermarket downpipe that tapers to 2.5 or 3" (most are 3" exit), and can use the existing center pipe if needed. You can use any brand of exhaust products, you don't have to use Cobb brand products. Also, any up-pipe can be used with the Stage 2 mapping, the majority of benefits however will be presented in the form of turbo response over much in power advantages. For info on turbo exhausts, consult the TECH REFERENCE (http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9579&postcount=2).
http://homepage.mac.com/futureofx/.Pictures/LSTIHOST/LegacyTurboExhaust.jpg

Breaking in your Accessport
You shouldn't have to wait to put the Accessport on your car. As long as your car is broken in from factory break-in specs, you should be able to upload maps right away. The ECU will learn and adapt to your driving style.

Sharing your Accessport
Q. Will my AccessPORT work on multiple vehicles?

A. Yes and No. When you first initialize the AccessPORT for use on your vehicle, it will marry itself to that ECU. From that point on, it will only work on that vehicle's ECU. If you wish to use it on another compatible vehicle, you much first uninstall the AccessPORT from the original vehicle. When you purchase the AccessPORT, you are purchasing one (1) AccessECU reflash license. Thus, that license can only be used on one vehicle at a time.

http://cobbtuning.com/legacy/accessport-faq.html

Adding modifications beyond recommended parts per Accessport Stage maps...
There is a reason why Cobb recommends certain parts for certain stages. They only recommend exhaust component changes for Stage 2 (no recommended changes for Stage 1), and I believe the only parts additional to a Turbo-Back Exhaust that won't effect the tuning is an Up-Pipe with sports cat or catless and a lightened or underdriven crank pulleys.

What is the difference between a Real-Time Map and a Base Map?
If you disconnect the batt you will lose the R-T map and it will default to the base. ...Trey stated there are minor changes to the basemaps not found in the RT. So you may not be taking full advantage of the AP by only using the RT maps. (BoxerGT2.5)

Is the resistor mod needed for deleting cats?
Well, found a new issue, and talked to Perrin and Cobb about it today. It turns out that if you are going to run a turbo back exhaust system, and you have done the up-pipe on our Legacy's, that you do the 2.2K resistor mod to the up-pipe instead of leaving the EGT sensor in.

While attempting to use my cruise control, like clockwork at 15 minutes the check engine light would come on, and the cruise control light would flash and not turn off. The car gave a P0546 cel for the EGT reading being to low temperature. It turns out without any cats or reduced cats in the system, that the exhaust temperatures run much lower in the vehicle, and this throws the cell. Now for some reason it only happens when the cruise control is on.

I have done the resistor mod and now my cruise control works fine. And Cobb tuning stated that they will have that Cell turned off in future maps. This also is a very common problem with WRX and STI owners from reading other reviews on nosaic and what not. (hodgeee)

*****

Ask the questions and you will get answers. :) Please keep the chatter down in here, want to keep it information-related as much as possible, same reason the Tech Reference sections are locked.

You can always PM or email me comments as well. :)

[meier motor sports]

im not sure i under stand "real time maps" what exactly does that mean. being a car guy and going to school im thinking its like gm's block learn. which is where it reads the values for the o2 load and other sensors and jsut puts the car where it should be. so with the ap does that mean if your cruising down the highway on vacation it will back off all the enhanced items to a lower level making it be more efficiant? and then when u punch it to pass some one it kicks everything up and gives u the power on demand?

also i was jsut reading cobbs web site

"Up to 8 different maps can be stored on the AccessPORT for Instant Map Switching. Some examples of these maps are: Staged Performance Maps
Valet Mode
Anti-Theft Mode
The possibilities are truly endless!"

now they only have 7 modes at this time stage one 91 octane stage 1 93 octane and stage 2 91 and 93 octane and valet anti theft and stock.
so in thery i could store all of them on the ap and switch when ever i wanted?

and on the topic of switching, can u switch on the fly?
do u need to have the ap pluged in to use the maps? if i unplug it and leave it at home will i still be running the diff map?

500th edit
how many maps can be stored on the accesport? there web site says 8 as i have stated but the pdf manual says 10 on page 6

and how many are stored in the car at one time. is it just the one u pick plust the corosponding real time map of that same one? ie stage 2 91 octane map and then also the real time stage 2 91 octane?

[OCDetails]

Something I would like to know is the maximum fuel economy I can expect to see from any of the maps available. The two maps I am most interested in would be a high performance one and a fuel economy one. Just those two would make the purchase of this device worth it to me. If I'm going to starts seeing single digit MPG numbers with it and the only way to raise it is to drive it with the stock map, then I'll have to think about that.

[sduford]

You can store 6 base maps and 10 real-time maps on the AP.

I asked Cobb about a fuel economy map and the reply was "we're working on that, should be available in the near future".

The AP needs to be connected to the ECU in order to switch real-time maps but then you can remove it and the R-T map will function as long as the ECU is not reset.

I do not believe you lose anything when using a R-T map. The base map comes with program code changes, not just map data. A R-T map is apparently just map data but the features of your base map (like CEL activity, anti-knock, etc.) are still in use.

[illt3ck]

Something I would like to know is the maximum fuel economy I can expect to see from any of the maps available. The two maps I am most interested in would be a high performance one and a fuel economy one. Just those two would make the purchase of this device worth it to me. If I'm going to starts seeing single digit MPG numbers with it and the only way to raise it is to drive it with the stock map, then I'll have to think about that.

I would definitely like to hear Cobb's official response on this as well.

Very interesting.

[rc0032]

1) Can you run a Base map of 93 octane and a real-time map of 91 octane?
2) Can you run a base map of version 1 and a real time map of version 1.01?

[rc0032]

1)Can you run a Base map of 93 octane and a real-time map of 91 octane?
2) Can you run a base map of version 1 and a real time map of version 1.01?


Can you run a base map of stage 2 and a real time map of stock?

[sduford]

1)Can you run a Base map of 93 octane and a real-time map of 91 octane?
2) Can you run a base map of version 1 and a real time map of version 1.01?


1) yes, but you should probably do the reverse, and only pick the 93 when R/T map when you know you have good fuel and you need the extra power. Thsi way if your ECU is reset it will default to the safer 91 octane.

2) You don't don't want to use 1.0 as a base because the base map also includes some program code changes, not just map data. So you want to get the latest code.

[sduford]

Can you run a base map of stage 2 and a real time map of stock?

Absolutely, you can switch to a stock R/T map whenever you want.

[Magowin]

I looked on cobbs site and here and didn't see anything on what map you should initially flash your ECU with.

Is it best to flash ECU with stock map and just switch to the staged realtime maps or Flash ECU with 91 octane stage 1 map and then if you need stock applications just load the realtime map?

[sduford]

No, you should flash it with the map you plan to use most of the time, like Stage 1 91 octnae for me. You should only use R/T maps for temporary use (a stint at 93 octane, valet mode, or the upcoming economy map.)

[Magowin]

Thanks guess I'll go with stage 1 91 octane first then. And switch to 93 when I hit Etown with Sunoco Ultra in the tank with the realtime map. :)

[Prod]

Ok, I'm thinking about getting an AP. I have a few questions:

1.) I understand that the dealer can only void your warranty if they can prove that the modifaction caused damage. I also understand that SOA is pretty tyrannical in it's liberal use of the "void" stamp. I would like to ensure that my powertrain warranty stays with me for 60k miles. I undertand that there is a limit to how many base flashes you can do, though this limit is over 100. My question is that if I get an AP, and I want to maintain complete stealth, can I just use a real-time stock setting to fool the dealership or should I reflash the base back to stock? I'm probably too worried about this, but I want to be sure no one can tell I did anything to my car. My mom paid for my car because I got full scholarship through college. She doesn't believe in certain things: (1) used cars and (2) modding cars.

2.) I ALWAYS get 93. Should I play it safe and use 91 anyways and just use 93 when I get to the track or use 93 all the time?

3.) Can the AP load a custom tune map?

4.) If I went EcuTek instead of AP, the only advantage would probably be a small amount of hp? My understanding with this is that I go to a shop that does it, they throw my car on a dyno, tune it for optimum performance and they call it a day. There's no way to flash back to stock, correct?

[sduford]

1) Since you are going to the dealer no more then 10 times during the warranty period, that's only a total of 20 reflashes if you do it before and after each visit. so I would play it safe and reflash to stock everytime. A "stock" base map is still not stock because Cobb alters the program code, in particular to enable the real-time map functionality

2) I would play it safe and use 91 as a base map and bump it up to 93 when you go to the track.

3) You can now buy the StreetTuner software and create your own custom maps or have your tuner do it for you. But you cannot load a map that was created by another copy of StreetTuner, it must be "married" to your AP.

4) Correct

[NewGTGuy]

Ok, got my AccessPort a week ago. Reflashed with base using Stage One 91 MT.

Now, I added octaine booster to bring oct up to 100. I then tried switching to real-time map Stage One 93 MT. But, when I look at current map it still shows Stage One 91 MT.

Anyone know why this is happening?

Thanks,
NGG


P.S. Even wih the base map of Stage One 91 MT I notice a considerable performance improvement.

[Driver72]

A "stock" base map is still not stock because Cobb alters the program code, in particular to enable the real-time map functionality




This aspect is the only aspect that still concerns me.

If during the initializing process the AP reads the stock settings, and you
reflash back to STOCK...why is it not truely back to STOCK?

Also, has anybody with an AP flashed their cars back to stock and taken
their LGT to a Subaru dealer for any....say CEL's or other ECU related issues
to test the theory that the dealer's diagnostic computer CANNOT detect
the fact the ECU had been reflashed with the AP programs?
Or are we still, at this point, relying on the word of Cobb that the AP
is undetectable to the dealer's computer when flashed back to stock mode?

[sduford]

If you read the manual, page 17, it says that when doing a Show Current Map, only the base map will be listed.

[sduford]

This aspect is the only aspect that still concerns me.

If during the initializing process the AP reads the stock settings, and you
reflash back to STOCK...why is it not truely back to STOCK?

Also, has anybody with an AP flashed their cars back to stock and taken
their LGT to a Subaru dealer for any....say CEL's or other ECU related issues
to test the theory that the dealer's diagnostic computer CANNOT detect
the fact the ECU had been reflashed with the AP programs?
Or are we still, at this point, relying on the word of Cobb that the AP
is undetectable to the dealer's computer when flashed back to stock mode?

You didn't read me correctly. I didn't say that reflashing to stock wasn't stock, I said that using a "stock" AP base map is not the same as reflashing to stock.

If you unmarry your AP from your car by reflashing the ECU to stock, then you are stock. Although there is still apossibility that SUbaru could detect that your car received some unauthorized re-flashing.

But if you're running an AP stock base map, planning to use another map using the real-time feature, your ECU is still running the Cobb AP modified code.

[tu11ym0n]

just got my AP and am confused by the manual. Step 1 says to make sure ignition is in OFF position, but steps 2 - 6 never say when to turn the ignition ON. Step 6 says to turn car OFF but no previous steps indicate when to turn car ON.

I could swear that someone else raised this issue on this forum or over at Cobb's forums but I cannot for the life of me find the thread.

can anyone with an AP clarify this? Cobb's phone is busy as usual...

[rallispec]

I believe it went something like this: (I don’t have the manual in front of me)



Plug in AP

Connect test wires under glove box



The turn the keys to the ON/ACC position so that things light up – but do not start the engine.



Fire up the AP, select new flash new base map.. (note – before you can load up new maps on the accessport, you will have had to flash once to your car’s ECU to marry the AP to your car)



You’ll know you did it correctly if it takes about 20 minutes to finish.



Once finished disconnect the AP and the test connectors





Then I went and loaded up the latest and greatest map off of cobb’s site ( I think they’re up to 1.2 now?) and did those steps over again to reflash the base map.





to flash to a new real time map you do not need to connect the test connectors or turn the car off. (you can flash with the engine running or completely off). Disconnecting the battery terminals will automatically reset your ECU to your base map. A real time flash should take less than 1 minute to complete.

[emlevins]

2) I would play it safe and use 91 as a base map and bump it up to 93 when you go to the track.



Why "play it safe" and use the 91 octane map instead of the 93 octane map if you have consistent access to 93 octane?

[tu11ym0n]

thanks rallisport :)

next question...

with the AccessPort i just received came a "warning" addendum separate from the manual that in bold underline state the following:

Please do not flash the ECU at a location where you cannot leave your car for an extended period of time in the unlikely event there is a problem.

after all the excitement of waiting for the AccessPort to arrive, it finally gets here and now i'm not that excited to install it anymore. :(

can someone please quell my anxiety?

[rallispec]

thanks rallisport :)

Please do not flash the ECU at a location where you cannot leave your car for an extended period of time in the unlikely event there is a problem.

after all the excitement of waiting for the AccessPort to arrive, it finally gets here and now i'm not that excited to install it anymore. :(

can someone please quell my anxiety?


you'll be fine -- even in the event that something happens mid flash, the accessport has built in safety features that prevent any damage from happening to the ECU.

I think they mainly have that printed for liability reasons.

with that said though, i would play it safe and flash it at your house or at least somewhere, where should anything happen - you have access to a phone and can call Cobb.

However, i have yet to hear anybody experience any problems. Cobb has been doing this for a while with the legacy, and even longer with the WRX. By now they have this system down pretty good and you shouldnt need to worry at all.


now get out there and flash that ecu~!

[OCDetails]

has anyone heard anything else regarding a fuel economy map or anything like that? When I know I'm going to be doing a lot of city driving I wouldn't mind a map that detunes the motor even further if it can choke an extra 5 or 10 mpg out of it. I had plans to go over to COBB and talk to them last Friday, but my boy was sick and I wanted to keep him home.

[rallispec]

has anyone heard anything else regarding a fuel economy map or anything like that? When I know I'm going to be doing a lot of city driving I wouldn't mind a map that detunes the motor even further if it can choke an extra 5 or 10 mpg out of it. I had plans to go over to COBB and talk to them last Friday, but my boy was sick and I wanted to keep him home.

i know the idea has been presented to them and they have economy maps for the WRX. I'm sure they'll make one eventually.

in the meantime i'm not too worried about it, i've seen no drop in fuel economy with the AP installed, and I dont know if a few extra miles to the gallon is woth detuning the engine to me.

[tu11ym0n]

now get out there and flash that ecu~!thanks for the encouragement! the ECU has been flashed like a mofo. took it for a spin afterwards and DAMN that just might be the best $650 I ever spent. I feel like I'm behind the wheel of a 911!

thanks again :)

[sduford]

Why "play it safe" and use the 91 octane map instead of the 93 octane map if you have consistent access to 93 octane?

Many users run the 91 octane map as their every day map even if they always use 93 octane, just to keep a safety margin for the sake of their engine life. You can switch to the R-T 93 octane map occasionally if you want to play.

But, if you're comfortable running the 93 all the time, then by all means do it.

[sduford]

i know the idea has been presented to them and they have economy maps for the WRX. I'm sure they'll make one eventually.

in the meantime i'm not too worried about it, i've seen no drop in fuel economy with the AP installed, and I dont know if a few extra miles to the gallon is woth detuning the engine to me.

I emailed Cobb on this about 3 months agao and the reply was "we're working on it". No timeline was given, and I suspect it is not a high priority for them.

Does anyone know how much fuel economy one gains on the WRX map?

[rallispec]

I emailed Cobb on this about 3 months agao and the reply was "we're working on it". No timeline was given, and I suspect it is not a high priority for them.

Does anyone know how much fuel economy one gains on the WRX map?

here's what i found on nutsack: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=755467&goto=nextnewest

looks pretty ineffective based on the first hand reviews.



thanks for the encouragement! the ECU has been flashed like a mofo. took it for a spin afterwards and DAMN that just might be the best $650 I ever spent. I feel like I'm behind the wheel of a 911!

thanks again :)

http://legacygt.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

[sduford]

here's what i found on nutsack: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=755467&goto=nextnewest

looks pretty ineffective based on the first hand reviews.

http://legacygt.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif


Thanks, doesn't look too good.

nutsack: I love that, how appropriate :D

[OCDetails]

I'm going over to COBB this afternoon. I'll ask them about the progress on additional maps for the Legacy. Anything else you want me to ask them?

[parkergc8]

hey guys, when it comes to maps, we have alot on our plate right now to be making maps.

when we get our move done this summer the possabillity for more downloadable maps will become much easier to swallow from a time/benefit point of view.

btw, i'm a noob, parkers my name, cobb's phone man is my game. i'll be seeing you guys from time to time, i'm sure

come to the cobb meet this fall!!

[merlin]

That's disappointing to hear. After reading the post above it doesn't appear that Cobb is too committed to support development of new AP maps. I may have to reconsider purchasing an AP.

Is there any firther info on the ECUTek reflash product?

[tu11ym0n]

Is there any firther info on the ECUTek reflash product?

but doesn't the ECUTek reflash require you to use an ECUtek dealer, i.e., you can't do the reflashing yourself? I think part of the beauty of the AP is that you can hook it up yourself and change maps without having to reflash your ECU or go to a specialized dealer. I've had my AP for less than a week but I am very very impressed by the performance increase. There's always the option of buying the StreetTuner upgrade that allows you to create your own maps. So far I'm definitely impressed with the performance of the AP but like others am really really hoping for an economy map given the LGT is a guzzler and President Bush keeps letting gas prices go up.

It would be nice if the AP and StreetTuner maps could become "open source" so that others could develop and share maps (such as an economy map).

[parkergc8]

merlin, new maps is not somthing we wont do, it's just somthing more time consuming than most people would think.

map making for the ap is very involved, and it will require us to re-vamp our structure a little bit.

keep in mind we are a growing comany trying not to get over extended, when we have a four times larger shop to work in we will be able to do much more than you can currently think of.

we want to create maps like this, and more. but it's not somthing that will pop up next week, it is more likely to be a phase of work after we are comfortable in our new location.

the release of protuner should instantly effect the maps available for download. and street tuner maps can be shared by fellow users. we have a bigger plan than we cant completely cover now, but we are confident in our ability to make the consumer a more powerful entity in the subaru world.

access ecu is still young my subiholics

provoke a response, get one.

[merlin]

but doesn't the ECUTek reflash require you to use an ECUtek dealer, i.e., you can't do the reflashing yourself?

EcuTek will soon be releasing two new products that will compete with the Accessport/Streetuner.

Ez-ECU is a package which allows the customer to flash program a file into his own car.

Custom ECU is one major step further and allows editing of a ROM file prior to programming.

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8776&highlight=pdxtuning

[mlrtime]

parkerqc8,

Thanks for coming here to reply. You should forward these requests to the decision makers at cobb. It seems there are many people on the fence about purchasing an AP. I have the money, and I'm prepared to spend it on an AP. However, future development of maps and a steady release cycle is an important decision for me.

thanks for listening, hopefully we will get an ETA for these new maps.

mlr

[meier motor sports]

i was under the impression that stage 2 required a cat less uppipe? right now all i ahve is a cat back. am i safe to use stage 2? i figured i would use stage 1 but stage one says only for stock cars. i jsut recieved my ap in the mail today and plan to be back in town friday to play with my car!

[!S4]

Another uppipe question: is a solid uppipe really required? Why wouldn't a catless flex work just as good?

[rc0032]

i was under the impression that stage 2 required a cat less uppipe? right now all i ahve is a cat back. am i safe to use stage 2? i figured i would use stage 1 but stage one says only for stock cars. i jsut recieved my ap in the mail today and plan to be back in town friday to play with my car!No and No Stage 2 just needs a full Turbo back (atleast a downpipe).

[alpinefun]

I am planning to buy AP. How much of gas mileage losses to expect with use of AP stage 1?

[rallispec]

none

i have seen no gas mileage loss running AP stage 1 93 octane.

(the first tank might go by a little quicker - but only becuase you'll be punching it out of every stoplight with a sh!t eating grin on your face becuase your car is so much faster)

[alpinefun]

i have seen no gas mileage loss running AP stage 1 93 octane.

Why do people ask COBB about economy map? Something is missing...

[Deer Killer]

Why do people ask COBB about economy map? Something is missing...Let's see, 200+ miles on cruise control, it can be optimized to be more fuel efficient. If it's as easy as pressing a button.. why not?

[rporter]

i know the idea has been presented to them and they have economy maps for the WRX. I'm sure they'll make one eventually.

in the meantime i'm not too worried about it, i've seen no drop in fuel economy with the AP installed, and I dont know if a few extra miles to the gallon is woth detuning the engine to me.

A buddy of mine just loaded the Eonomy map on his WRX last week. He has a long commute to work (mixed freeway/4-lane roads) and only saw 1 mpg over the Stage 1 93 octane base map he has loaded.

I loaded the Stage 1 93 base map over a week ago, and I did my regular 490-mile drive to Indiana today. Traffic conditions change on each trip, as does my speed, but even looking at it pessimistically, my mileage is down no more than 1/2 mpg compared to the same trip in the past. It's also warmer today than it's been for the other times that I've driven it. I would call it a wash on mpg with the AP loaded......all dependent on your right foot!

[rporter]

Let's see, 200+ miles on cruise control, it can be optimized to be more fuel efficient. If it's as easy as pressing a button.. why not?

Yep.

One thing that I have noticed on the LGT versus other cars that I've owned over the years is that there is a greater mileage difference between running at 70 mph versus 80 mph.

Running at 79-80 as I tend to do, I get 24.7-25.4 mpg under good conditions. When I get the speeds to 70 or lower, I get in the upper 26 up to 27.3 range. My SWAG is that the turbo is more in play over 70 mph, which happens to be 3K rpm on the 5MT. This is with driver-only, but with the car packed with "stuff".

[RayDhaIn]

Well, i got from 24.3 mpg stock to 24.9 w/stage 1

[tu11ym0n]

how are you guys figuring out your avg MPG? Based upon the info display I'm averaging 15.9 mpg :(

i could have bought a Hummer...

[meier motor sports]

i recently took a trip
about 200 miles of highway with a max of about 24mpg and then a few jaunts to 130mph brought it down to 22mpg. then to a car show where ppl wanted rides and i was about 21 mpg. then to an autocross and at the end of that i was at 19mpg. and then the trip back home about 175 miles it got back to 22mpg

[rallispec]

how are you guys figuring out your avg MPG? Based upon the info display I'm averaging 15.9 mpg :(

i could have bought a Hummer...

holy crap man!

based on the trip computer, it usually tells me between 22 and 23mpg mostly city driving. At the pump (miles driven / gallons of gas put in) i usually find myself to be between .5 and 1 MPG lower than the display.


i've gotten as high as 28.5 on the highway with cruise set at 65.

[rporter]

The few times that I tried it, I have matched what the trip computer shows, so I don't mess with it anymore. I'm also pretty consistent on how I fuel the car.

To answer the above question, yes.....it is the average mpg shown.

For the first full tank after the AP map load, I got my lowest average mpg ever........19.5 Had something to do with my heavy right shoe!!

[jdkobe]

Has anyone tried either the Cobb or ECUTek production with an automatic transmission? Are the results equally good as M/T?

jdkobe

[tu11ym0n]

Has anyone tried either the Cobb or ECUTek production with an automatic transmission? Are the results equally good as M/T?

jdkobeI'm using the AccessPort with the 5EAT. it kicks MAJOR ass. not sure how to answer your second question though. do you have an AT? if so, who cares what the MT'ers are doing! :lol:

figured out my poor mpg avg had a lot to do with "city" driving and a very heavy right foot. I've since taken the car on the highway for a couple of long drives and I'm now averaging around 21 mpg. now if only my right foot would behave...

[jdkobe]

Thanks Tu11ym0n - I started to get worried as I didn't see anyone share their experience with the Cobb and an auto trannie. Can you tell me more.... what improvements did you see, in general?

[sutter2k]

At what point is a laptop required? Just when download new maps from the internet?
What maps are included on the access port by default?

Anyone try this out with Linux. Has it run successfully under Wine?

Thanks

[brhays]

I use a Mac and am therefore unable to load new maps to the AP. LUCKILY, I live 10 minutes from Cobb, and they are rad about helping with stuff like this. You only need a Wintel machine (I don't trust emulators like Wine or Virtual PC to manage serial DB-9 connections this critical) to load new maps to the AP.

The AP comes loaded with all the latest maps from their website. I went from feeling like a retard about AccessPORT to being a ninja at it in the 25 minutes it took me to flash the ECU.

Without access to a Windoze machine with a serial port, I'd recommend sending the AP in to Cobb to load new maps if anything awesome or critical is updated. However, you would likely only want/need to do this every year or 2, as the maps included are more than sufficient for most.

If you're taking your Leg GT past stage 2, Cobb can do a custom AP tune and create maps, but it ain't cheap.

[melayout]

At what point is a laptop required? Just when download new maps from the internet?
What maps are included on the access port by default?

Anyone try this out with Linux. Has it run successfully under Wine?

Thanks

Just use VMWare, or your school/work computer.

[tu11ym0n]

Just use VMWare, or your school/work computer.Indeed, thankfully I have an old PC at work that I use for testing sites and this has now officially become my AccessPort computer. I thought about trying VirtualPC but quickly got reminded that Macs don't have serial ports (at least those made in the last 7 years or so - other than the Xserve that is).

[rporter]

Serial ports are so "1980s". I was surprised when I got mine.....I was expecting a USB as a standard.

[zildjiank]

Anyone got the stage 2? What was the cost? When i get stage 2, do i have to have a new downpipe, or can i run the stock one? Does installation come in the deal, or do i have to put the turbo back on myself? Is it seriously just a bolt on system anyone can do, or what? Thanks guys...

[firedawgs]

Cobb recommends you have a full turbo back exhaust before switching to Stage 2 map. At minimum you need a downpipe no cats or HFC.

[brhays]

Update for Mac users: Running Virtual PC with the Keyspan USB to Serial adapter. It's working, but it's a pain in the ass. I have to uninstall the serial port and reboot the virtual PC each time I close Map Manager & restart. Plus, Cobb came out with a bunch of new maps (yaaay!) and I have AccessPORTs for both our WRX and Leg GT. However, I felt really lame showing up and having to have Justin and his crew load maps for me, so I guess this is better.

[Cliff]

How many times can you flash the ECU? Does each time you switch maps count as one of these flashes?

[Ed_T]

I'm curious about the performance levels to be gained... using 93 exclusively but I'm guessing that I'm not getting full punch. The car feels strong already but I suspect there's more to be had.

If anyone out there is set up this way I'd really like your opinions and comments!

Considering using AP stock as base and S1 93 real-time.

[rallispec]

Ed_T

if you really want to take full advantage of the AP, i would suggest using the same base map you would normally want to drive at.

eg: use stage1 93 octane as your base map, and then switch to a stock realtime map if you need to, or just flash back to stock if you need to.

Dont worry about using up your flashes -- the car can handle more than 100 flashes easily, and even at 100 -- that will last you much longer than the life of the car under any kind of normal flashing routine.


here is my dyno running Stage1 93 octane on the version 1.01 map = the red and green lines represent stage1 base map.

the blue lines reprsent stage1 base map - stock real time map.

I was told by MachVdan (who's dyno i was on) - that the real time stock numbers were almost identical to what other stock legacies put down. - so it's a good indication of a truely stock legacy.


http://pictars.com/users/rallispec/graph.jpg

[rallispec]

How many times can you flash the ECU? Does each time you switch maps count as one of these flashes?

each time you change the base map -- that counts as a 'flash'.. a base map reflash takes about 20 minutes to do.

a real time map does not use up your flashes. Switching real time maps takes only a few seconds.


they say 100 flashes-- however that is a very conservative estimate. STill though, 100 flashes should be way more than any normal person ever needs to use.

[Cliff]

very cool.

[TurboLegacy_pdx]

I'm just about finishing up my break-in period. I noticed that my AP still had the older version of the map on it, so I was wondering if there's anything reason why I shouldn't just go ahead and update it to the v1.10?

[Mblock66]

I went right to 1.10. It is probably the smarter thing to do

[sutter2k]

I'm just about finishing up my break-in period. I noticed that my AP still had the older version of the map on it, so I was wondering if there's anything reason why I shouldn't just go ahead and update it to the v1.10?

There is a thread on this update.

I noted -->some minor tweaks for smoothness, and rev limited raised to 7000rpm

Additional maps(economy map)

[TurboLegacy_pdx]

Just flashed my car with the Stage 1 91 v1.10 last night. What a difference it has made already. Can't wait for the full learning process to complete. :)

This is probably the best $645 I will spend on this car.

[Ed_T]

Thanks for your posting. The graph looks real good. I can see where the car might feel transformed.

Would there be a performance penalty if the real time map used is Stg 1 while leaving the base map stock? I'm just trying to simplyfy things if it's gotta see the dealer, but I don't want a performance penalty if I can easily avoid it.


Ed_T

if you really want to take full advantage of the AP, i would suggest using the same base map you would normally want to drive at.

eg: use stage1 93 octane as your base map, and then switch to a stock realtime map if you need to, or just flash back to stock if you need to.

Dont worry about using up your flashes -- the car can handle more than 100 flashes easily, and even at 100 -- that will last you much longer than the life of the car under any kind of normal flashing routine.


here is my dyno running Stage1 93 octane on the version 1.01 map = the red and green lines represent stage1 base map.

the blue lines reprsent stage1 base map - stock real time map.

I was told by MachVdan (who's dyno i was on) - that the real time stock numbers were almost identical to what other stock legacies put down. - so it's a good indication of a truely stock legacy.

[Ed_T]

Just flashed my car with the Stage 1 91 v1.10 last night. What a difference it has made already. Can't wait for the full learning process to complete. :)

This is probably the best $645 I will spend on this car.

Could you post some specifics once you run up some mileage, I am interested. Thx!

[TurboLegacy_pdx]

Thanks for your posting. The graph looks real good. I can see where the car might feel transformed.

Would there be a performance penalty if the real time map used is Stg 1 while leaving the base map stock? I'm just trying to simplyfy things if it's gotta see the dealer, but I don't want a performance penalty if I can easily avoid it.

I've done everything from reading the threads on this forum, as well as calling up Cobb themselves ask them about this same question. They've all come back and said its best to use the Stg1 as your base map because there's settings changes within the base map that could not be produced by the real time maps. I don't recall which settings though. :o

Things I've noticed immediately are:

1. Way better Idel.. not more shakes at stop lights!

2. Much smoother acceleration between 1-2-3 gears, where as before the first thing I noticed about the Legacy when I got it was the unsmooth acceleration at 50%+ throttle.

3. More power to 4th and 5th. Even at 2K rpm in 4th, I speed up much smoother and faster w/o having to down shift to 3rd.

4. Throttle response was much improved too.

I have a neighbor that has the LGT wagon without about 20K on it, and we swap cars last night and both agreed that the initial difference was definitely noticable. He's probably going to order one today.

Just like everyone else with an AP already said.. This should have been they way our Car runs from the factory.

[Unilat]

Thanks for your posting. The graph looks real good. I can see where the car might feel transformed.

Would there be a performance penalty if the real time map used is Stg 1 while leaving the base map stock? I'm just trying to simplyfy things if it's gotta see the dealer, but I don't want a performance penalty if I can easily avoid it.

Trey@Cobb posted a direct reply to that question somewhere in the http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14804&page=9&pp=10 thread, starting with post 82. I don't remember which post it was that he commented on, so you'll have to page through.

[parkergc8]

We reccomend having your desired performance map as base. (for performance reasons exactly)

[darkfox1]

I've been reading every page of this, and although I now have a slight headache :lol: I still have a few questions.

1. I'm not quite sure about the r/t maps.. is this accessport thing something you can put away in your house after flashing the base map? or is it something you want to keep with you? I'm kind of a mod it and forget it kind of guy.. I dont want to have to think about this kind of thing a lot.

2. some guys have mentioned this but it was not directly addressed, can this thing be detected by the dealership, and does it mess with your warranty in any way?

3. does such a thing reduce engine life in any way? I've always wondered how it was that so many companies (for my last vehicle it was places like superchips diablo etc. making re-tunes) manage to do things better than the factory with seemingly no side-effects??

4. I always run 93 octane, we dont have 91 here, only 87 89 and 93 so I always put in 93, one guy on here mentioned running a 91 stage 1 anyway just to be safe.. is there a degree of.. I dunno non-safe here? heh, bad wording.. if I'm in a bad mood or in a hurry I can be pretty mean to a vehicle, so I dont want to hurt the thing in one of those 15 minute drives that takes 5 minutes if ya know what I mean.

Thanks guys, oh, and most improtantly.. where can I buy this? I didn't spend long on the cobb website, but I couldn't find during my time there where on the site any information on the ap was, nor where to buy such a thing.

[abakja1]

How does the valet and anti-theft map work?

For example, how would I "load" either before I leave the car to the valet parking guy or if I go shopping in a mall?

I take it then that most people would have to have the AP hooked up and taken with you when you want to use the valet and anti-theft modes all the time too,...

sorry,..just trying to understand the concept on the valet and anti-theft modes as I cant see myself telling the valet guy "Wait while I load the Valet mode on my ECU,." as he's waiting to park my car and if Im using the 91 Oct base map,..

[sduford]

How does the valet and anti-theft map work?

For example, how would I "load" either before I leave the car to the valet parking guy or if I go shopping in a mall?

I take it then that most people would have to have the AP hooked up and taken with you when you want to use the valet and anti-theft modes all the time too,...

sorry,..just trying to understand the concept on the valet and anti-theft modes as I cant see myself telling the valet guy "Wait while I load the Valet mode on my ECU,." as he's waiting to park my car and if Im using the 91 Oct base map,..

Yes, they are real-time maps and in order to use them you need to plug-in the AP and switch maps, which takes about 30 seconds.

[AWDxBOOST]

i just thought of this the other day

say someone makes a map that is meant for stage 2 with a fmic, i guess with street tuner software, do you need street tuner software to use it? or can you just download it onto the free slot in the regular AP?

[Mblock66]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. If people create maps for certain mods on street tuner can we share? Probably not the best idea since it is car specific but would it work?

That was if another 5EAT had pullies and say an intake we could share?

[AWDxBOOST]

it should work...as long as it was done in about the same climate/ altitude

[sduford]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. If people create maps for certain mods on street tuner can we share? Probably not the best idea since it is car specific but would it work?

That was if another 5EAT had pullies and say an intake we could share?

Nope, according to the literature on Cobb's website, StreetTuner maps are not shareable, they will only work on the AP they are married to.

Until someone figures out a hack I guess...

[nekdut]

What about with the PROtuner? I could not exactly ascertain how they work. When our cars get "Protuned", do we get new maps on our AP that we can still swap out with the stock or economy map? Or is this like an ECUTek tune where the process overwrites the ECU directly?

[AWDxBOOST]

Nope, according to the literature on Cobb's website, StreetTuner maps are not shareable, they will only work on the AP they are married to.

Until someone figures out a hack I guess...

bleh...thats crap...

[godwhomismike]

Is anyone using ECUtek on their Legacy or has everyone decided to use the Accesport?

I meet on Wednesday with a bunch of WRX guys that swear on the ECUtek - honestly, after asking them why they felt it was better I only got "it's well worth the extra $200" then a whole buttload of techno babble, which I totally don't understand. :lol:

So in layman terms, what's the differences and are they basically equal (except for price)?

- Mike

[Deer Killer]

Nope, according to the literature on Cobb's website, StreetTuner maps are not shareable, they will only work on the AP they are married to.

Until someone figures out a hack I guess...They must have changed it then. Probably all the tuners getting all pissy. Originally they said the point of streettuner was to be able to share maps..

edit: it's right on the cobb site right now:

Other Software Features
The StreetTUNER allows users the ability to Save and SHARE their files with other StreetTUNER users. Files can be saved in both StreetTUNER BASE MAP and REAL TIME formats. Various Staged and convenience Base Maps are also provided.

[Unilat]

I read that as well - the key to sharing is that all parties involved have to own the street tuner software. I imagine it's to protect the pro - tuning market and to protect other users from a map that people with a little knowledge (i.e. dangerous) would create with street tuner...

[sduford]

My bad, my memory must be failing me. I was convinced I read a few months ago that they couldn't be shared. To share with other StreetTUNER users makes sense. I see a lot of potential liability issues with that though...

[rporter]

What liability?

The StreetTuner itself is a device that allows people to hose up their engines in any way that they see fit!!!! ;-)

You're on your own with any roll-your-own software tool, whether you develop your own, or get a map from someone else.

[sduford]

Of course, but what you do with your own car is your business. But if you lend your maps to someone else, and blow their engine up...

[mattg]

i'm getting an AP w/ PDXtuning maps. ships out tomorrow. http://www.legacygt.com/forums/images/smilies/dm.gif

[NYsFinest]

For stage 1 what is the hp?
For stage 2 what is the hp?
For stage 3 what is the hp?

Also, has anyone ever done a stage 1 and not gained the 40 hp that supposedly was suppose to happen? This goes for stage 2 and 3 as well.........

Thanks for whoever answers.

[Ed_T]

For stage 1 what is the hp?
For stage 2 what is the hp?
For stage 3 what is the hp?

Also, has anyone ever done a stage 1 and not gained the 40 hp that supposedly was suppose to happen? This goes for stage 2 and 3 as well.........

Thanks for whoever answers.

I don't remeber my butt-dyno telling me I gained 40 hp with stage one. I'm not sure Stg 1 is supposed to give that. Prolly more like 20+ if UR lucky.

[rporter]

If you do a search in this Forum, the two relevant tests for Stage 1 (for me, anyway) were:

Cobb got 224 WHP on a Mustang Dyno

Another private owner got 223.9 WHP on a 424x Dynojet.

Cobb's dyno for Stage 2 were 237 WHP.

No Stage 3, AFAIK.

IIRC, stock LGT dyno 3s were clustered around 200 WHP.

[merlin]

i'm getting an AP w/ PDXtuning maps. ships out tomorrow. http://www.legacygt.com/forums/images/smilies/dm.gif

I didn't know PDXtuning did Cobb AP's. Do you mean ECUTek map?

[NYsFinest]

I don't remeber my butt-dyno telling me I gained 40 hp with stage one. I'm not sure Stg 1 is supposed to give that. Prolly more like 20+ if UR lucky.

When I went to Cobbs site, they claimed 40 hp. 20 hp is a small gain.......

[Mblock66]

Actually the breakdown is this.....

Stage I = +27.6 HP +28.7 TQ
Stage II = +13.8 HP +37.9 TQ (this is ON TOP of stage I)

There are wheel HP TQ numbers. Not Crank

[NYsFinest]

They are putting out numbers for stage 1 that claims 290 hp/301 torque.

I guess I should of known that was too good to be true. But w/ the numbers you posted it doesn't seem worth doing all the stages. That really isn't that significant of a gain in either hp or torque that I would of thought.

[rporter]

Keep something in mind. Peak HP numbers ain't worth a pile of steaming feces, IMNSHO. The torque curve from idle out to the peak is what gives you what you want.

if you do a mod that increases torque throughout the rpm range, but adds nothing to the peak HP, you will like it better than one that lowers the torque curve and only adds peak HP (with torque way up on the top end).

Keep in mind that HP is not "real", it is a derivative calculation based on torque over rpm. Torque is real. Increasing gross torque numbers is something that you can feel.

Now, in an old RWD musclecar, you ca easily change the rear-end gearing to get back the low-midrange torque from puttng in a big cam, big-tube headers, or a too-big carb. Not the case on these or many other AWD/FWD cars.

[Mblock66]

You are missing something. It is actually 290/301 HP (AT THE CRANK)

The numbers I gave you are at the ground. Just so you undrestand the stcok LGT is only putting

196.3 HP and 219.0 TQ to the ground

So no use the figures I gave you and you tell me if 21% increase in wheel HP and 30% more Tq isn't worth it!

[NYsFinest]

You are missing something. It is actually 290/301 HP (AT THE CRANK)

The numbers I gave you are at the ground. Just so you undrestand the stcok LGT is only putting

196.3 HP and 219.0 TQ to the ground

So no use the figures I gave you and you tell me if 21% increase in wheel HP and 30% more Tq isn't worth it!

Yea, you got a point there. Thanks for putting it into perspective for me.

[rporter]

They are putting out numbers for stage 1 that claims 290 hp/301 torque.

I guess I should of known that was too good to be true. But w/ the numbers you posted it doesn't seem worth doing all the stages. That really isn't that significant of a gain in either hp or torque that I would of thought.

Calculating flywheel HP from wheel HP (HP) is not at all accurate, and not worth doing.

One of the real benefits of dynamometers is that they show WHP, which is all that really matters.

You can have two identical cars (engine-wise), but due to different engine oil, tranny fluid, and even tire type and pressure, you can have different WHP numbers.

WHP numbers are all that really matters.....in reality, only the wheel torque numbers across various rpms. HP is not a "real" measurement, it is a calculation of torque & rpm (work over time). Torque is "real".

To prove the point, look at some common cars out there. An LGT 5MT with 250 rated flywheel HP can crack high 13s. Any Nissan with the 250-270 HP 3.6 V6 (depending on the model) is only good for mid 14s. Flywheel HP is irrelevant in these comparisons.

[Chris112]

what exactly is a real time map? How does it work? Does it stay in place until you put it back to your base map? Whats the benifit of it.

[PDXTuning]

No, he means AP.

:)
I didn't know PDXtuning did Cobb AP's. Do you mean ECUTek map?

[mattg]

yup, and the car is running well. i raced Barrett in a lightly modded STi the other night, twice from a dig. he put 3 cars on me the first run and 2 cars on the second. both runs were to ~100. not too bad.

when i get the DP and reflash to 1.5 i should be able to hang right in there. ;)

oh, BTW Jarrad, time to change your car list to 3 '05 GT's. :)

[merlin]

No, he means AP.

:)

Tell me more....

Are you doing AP's with custom maps?
How do those compare to your ECUTek maps?
What's the price?

[PDXTuning]

We are doing AP's with custom maps.

They will be the same basic map as our EcuTek map. The AP and the EcuTek are two different approaches to accomplish the same thing, both load new ROM data into your stock ECU. Right now we are working on converting our maps, which takes a bit of time. Once we have a complete selection we will make a more public announcement.

For a LGT or STi the price will be the same as an EcuTek reflash, $799 for the AP and our map.

Jarrad

[sutter2k]

$799 for the AP and our map

So how much for just a map? A huge amount of us already have the AP's

Your 1.5T map would be of interest.

In addition, your mild 18g tune without fuel mods would be interesting as well.

Matt

[mattg]

maybe $799-$645 = $154 for the map?

[merlin]

We are doing AP's with custom maps.

They will be the same basic map as our EcuTek map. The AP and the EcuTek are two different approaches to accomplish the same thing, both load new ROM data into your stock ECU. Right now we are working on converting our maps, which takes a bit of time. Once we have a complete selection we will make a more public announcement.

For a LGT or STi the price will be the same as an EcuTek reflash, $799 for the AP and our map.

Jarrad

That's great news Jarrad. Sounds like the best of both worlds. Have you done dyno comparisons of the Cobb and PDX AP maps? What performance gains can be expected over the Cobb maps?

[mmm def]

Does the realtime map go away when you shut the car off and revert back to your basemap? I had put on my stock map for the dealer, when I picked up the car later on I went to put back my stg2 map and it was already running it. ?

[rporter]

Does the realtime map go away when you shut the car off and revert back to your basemap? I had put on my stock map for the dealer, when I picked up the car later on I went to put back my stg2 map and it was already running it. ?

The realtime map stays active unless you disconnect the battery (or change/delete it with the AP).

The AP only shows you which base map you have loaded, so if your realtime map is different than your base map, you won't see that.

[mmm def]

The realtime map stays active unless you disconnect the battery (or change/delete it with the AP).

The AP only shows you which base map you have loaded, so if your realtime map is different than your base map, you won't see that.


Thanks!

[AWD-Turbo]

Have you done dyno comparisons of the Cobb and PDX AP maps? What performance gains can be expected over the Cobb maps?
I doubt PDX would write a direct comparison of their maps to COBB’s ;)
I don’t think you can compare the actual dyno numbers from cobb vs pdx.
Using the before and after number from each site to calculate horsepower and torque gains should make for a valid comparison though.

“Stage 2” maps

PDX (uppipe, turboback)

before after % gained
HP 191 245 28%
TQ 190 275 45%


COBB (turboback)

before after % gained
HP 196.3 237.7 21%
TQ 219 285.5 30%

Some of PDX’s gains are from the uppipe, and maybe some are from being tuned at a lower elevation. I’m interested in the PDX 1.5T because that is the hardware path I plan to go down (UP, DP, TMIC), and I live at the approximately the same elevation as Portland.

[merlin]

I doubt PDX would write a direct comparison of their maps to COBB’s ;)
Why not? PDX charges a premium for their AP with custom maps. People will want to know what they're getting for the additional expense. If the differences are significant I'm sure it would generate a lot of business for PDX from current AP owners. I'm really interested in seeing how their AP maps compare to their ECUTek maps posted a while back.

I don’t think you can compare the actual dyno numbers from cobb vs pdx.

Sure you can, but not from different dynos. PDX could easily dyno the base AP map then reflash/dyno with their custom map and publish the results.

[G.T.Subie]

I have been reading alot on the AP before I buy one. But could some one explain to me the difference between BASE MAP/REAlTIME MAP. If you want to take the time I'd appreciate it. I am bit of a noob at the MOD game, but i got the itch and want to know what im doing....:D

[PDXTuning]

This is actually a bit of a touchy subject, since in some manners PDXTuning and Cobb are competitors. Both companies are well respected, and both are putting out what they believe to be the best balance of safety and performance. When choosing one over the other you should look at all the information available to you, and choose what you like the best.



The simple truth is this: there is no absolute best base map. So long as both maps produce good results and longevity of the motor/car over a broad spectrum of cars, they are both good base maps. Judging that one car made more power than the other does not mean that it has a better base map, nor does it mean that it is less safe. Due to that fact PDXTuning would never compare the power output of our maps to anyone’s map and claim PDXTuning’s map was better.



I hope this helps people understand a bit,



Jarrad

Why not? PDX charges a premium for their AP with custom maps. People will want to know what they're getting for the additional expense. If the differences are significant I'm sure it would generate a lot of business for PDX from current AP owners. I'm really interested in seeing how their AP maps compare to their ECUTek maps posted a while back.

Sure you can, but not from different dynos. PDX could easily dyno the base AP map then reflash/dyno with their custom map and publish the results.

[PDXTuning]

For you the end user the biggest difference between the two maps is a base map takes much longer to load into the ECU than a real time map. With street tuner you can make changes to a real time map, and those changes instantly take effect. A base map requires the changes to be flashed, severl minutes time, into the ECU before they will take effect.

Jarrad


I have been reading alot on the AP before I buy one. But could some one explain to me the difference between BASE MAP/REAlTIME MAP. If you want to take the time I'd appreciate it. I am bit of a noob at the MOD game, but i got the itch and want to know what im doing....:D

[LittleBlueGT]

I have an AP and an ION header/UP and (in the works) Turbo-back exhaust.

I am very interested in being able to buy a map that would better take advantage of the additional mods I have over stage2.

[jedd]

Ordered my AP Friday! Oh Boy! I have a catless up, dp and flat panel. I want to go straight to 93 stage 2. Anyone running like this with the updated map? Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks!

Chad

[jedd]

It's here! Ican't decide if I should work or install it! Decissions!

[rporter]

It only takes 15-20 minutes to get it synced and loaded. Lunchtime!!

[starlabs]

Install it! Otherwise all your time spent "working" will actually be spent thinking about that new AP sitting there just waiting to be installed :p

[jedd]

Ok I have it installed and after a few miles I can tell a difference. Not huge though. I loaded Stage II 1.10 MT. I read about the learning process. How long does this take and how much more will I feel the performance. Has anyone loaded 1.15? Should I go right to that? Thanks!

I will put it to the test on the 25 minute ride home tonight!

Chad

[rporter]

Just download & go right to 1.15.

I have found that it takes a good 100 miles to be totally adapted. I only have about 10 miles on 1.15, and while a couple of things feel a bit different, I won't know for awhile yet.

[sduford]

It's the other way around with mine. It's awesome after a reflash or reset, but then it gradually peters-out over the next 100 miles.

[rporter]

The mind can play many tricks......

[PDXTuning]

Depending on the tune, either can happen. If the map is too aggressive you will loose power over time. If the map is not setup quite right it will learn to get stronger over a couple hundred miles. If the tune is perfect it will be strong after just a couple pulls.

Jarrad

[rporter]

Depending on the tune, either can happen. If the map is too aggressive you will loose power over time. If the map is not setup quite right it will learn to get stronger over a couple hundred miles. If the tune is perfect it will be strong after just a couple pulls.

Jarrad

Not sure that I agree with that. With the adaptive learning that many cars have (besides Subaru), the adaptive learning will fine-tune to your driving style. With a fresh AP base map load, I always feel a difference right off, but it does improve over time. I had the same situation on my previous Fords after doing resets to the EEC-IV ECUs, both with & without chips.

[JBLU24]

if i get a crucial UP n a shorty DP can i still run stage 2 or do i need to do something about my stock 3rd cat(immediately) ?

[jim1969]

you can run stage 2

[TSi+WRX]

if i get a crucial UP n a shorty DP can i still run stage 2 or do i need to do something about my stock 3rd cat(immediately) ?

You'll want to review the FAQ at Cobb a bit more in-depth. :)

Like jim1969 said, even the shorty DP will allow you to "run Stage II," however, as stated in Cobb's FAQ, optimal AccessPort Stage II mapping benefits are not realized without a full TBE.

[sduford]

Not sure that I agree with that. With the adaptive learning that many cars have (besides Subaru), the adaptive learning will fine-tune to your driving style. With a fresh AP base map load, I always feel a difference right off, but it does improve over time. I had the same situation on my previous Fords after doing resets to the EEC-IV ECUs, both with & without chips.

I think that is a myth. The transmission might adapt to your driving sytle but the ECU spends most of it's time trying to adapt to the fuel/air/temperature conditions and keeping your engine from detonating itself to pieces.

In my case, the 91 octane we have a round here doesn't seem to be quite good enough for the engine. So right after a reset it performs great and works smoothly. After 100 miles or os it feels like the ECU has pulled back significantly (probably because of knock) and the stutter shows its ugly head. I don't think it has anything to do with my driving style and everything to do with the quality of the gasoline.

I've tried a few times to put Sunuco 94 octane in it and the power comes back while the stutter completely disappears. That stuff is expensive though...

[rporter]

I think that is a myth. The transmission might adapt to your driving sytle but the ECU spends most of it's time trying to adapt to the fuel/air/temperature conditions and keeping your engine from detonating itself to pieces.



Not a myth at all. It's been around at least since the late '80s with Ford, and Subaru has in in their description of the LGT. On Fords (and others I'm sure), tuners will remove the adaptive processing (with either chips or the SCTuner devices) on highly modified cars so that they can keep a consistent level of tune without the ECU trying to correct things.

[sduford]

I didn't say the ECU wasn't adaptive. I'm saying it adapts to driving conditions (fuel, temperature, air densitiy, etc.) rather then to the driving style of the driver.

[EJ255_alan]

just one dumb question
after you uploaded the new map into the onboard ECU you can unplug your AP no problem right?? and what is the most updated version availiable @ the moment? 1.15??

ps. if you guys DO keep the AP on the car, where did you guys place it?? in the glove box? the storage above the center console?? storage afterthe cup holders??

best regards
alan

[rporter]

Yes, you unplug it.

I keep it in a ziplock bag in the storage bin over the spare tire.

[IAHAWK]

Does anyone know if the 2005 Accessport with work with the 2006 Legacy?

And no the 2006 doesn't have a catless uppipe...in case anyone brings that up. :D

[GizmoII]

Need help, when i plug the two test plugs together i don't get the flashing check engine light. The fans run thru their cycle but no check engine light. Do i proceed to reflashing? I looked everywhere for a second set of test connector but with no luck. Need quick help.

[starlabs]

Need help, when i plug the two test plugs together i don't get the flashing check engine light. The fans run thru their cycle but no check engine light. Do i proceed to reflashing? I looked everywhere for a second set of test connector but with no luck. Need quick help.

Read... Search... Seek...

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17640&highlight=cobb+flash


COBB: Update the freakin' manual already! :icon_roll

[GizmoII]

Thanks Star, uploading at 10%.

[drewster]

why is it if you just have the AP from Cobb it is considered Stage 1 but if you get the AP with PDXtuning maps it is a Stage 0?

[GizmoII]

Cause Stage 1 was already taken :)

[TSi+WRX]

why is it if you just have the AP from Cobb it is considered Stage 1 but if you get the AP with PDXtuning maps it is a Stage 0?

It's because these "Stages" are not truly defined:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1526&highlight=stage

These very arbitrary "stages" - as you can see - is very confusing to just about everyone involved. The "stages" are often defined by both the community involved (i.e. a "Stage I" Scooby can be very different, from, say, a "Stage I" SRT-4) and/or the retailer/tuner who packages such modifications.

As you've cited for yourself above, drewster, your confusion stems from the latter of the two reasons.

I, for one, would love for this type of reference to be chucked-out-the-window.

[drewster]

thanks for the reference, now my next step is to read up on up and down pipes.... i'm sure more confusion ahead... :icon_bigg

[TSi+WRX]

;) NP - and don't worry, everyone gets confused about the UP/DP stuff the first time around! :)

[derffred]

so, i bought my AP and finally got it last tuesday... my basemap is stage 1 93 octane.. i run sunoco 94 octane... but i decided to play around with the other maps, like valet mode and the antithefts and stuff... and a question about the economy mode that i downloaded from the site... i don't feel a difference between econ and stock or even stage 1.... i couldn't feel a difference, they say the turn off the boost controller... buttt i still feel boost and the car still moves.. i don't see how it's in any way, shape, or form "economical".. is that map messed up or something? did i do something wrong? the two antithefts are no different from each other... they are both crank, no start conditions... it's just one runs about a second longer before stalling. ALL IS APPRECIATED.

[rporter]

Do a Search for the Economy Mode, it was discussed in some earlier threads in other AP topics. There are some specific driving conditions that make the Economy mode work as advertised.

[sduford]

Boost should level-off at 3500 RPM. There should be a very noticeable difference above that, but below that it feels pretty normal.

Perhaps you're not doing the RT map switch properly?

[vader1]

Just a couple lame newbie questions. I still have not bought one of these (looking at March 06) but I do have some familiarity with Toyota turbo engines (3sgte) just not sure what the major differences in ecu control between the two manufacturers.



Does the stage one map change stock boost level at all? (not sure if boost is controller by Subaru computer or limited mechanically)

Second, if thise is just all just fuel and timing (or combination with added boost) is anyone running an AF guage and does it ever go lean?

Thanks
John

[Bicster]

The boost is controlled by the computer. The chip will alter fuel, timing, and boost. It'll run leaner than stock.

[TSi+WRX]

...is anyone running an AF guage and does it ever go lean?


Many have logged Cobb's off-the-shelf maps, and by all accounts, they are conservative enough to be quite safe. :)

[Bicster]

Many have logged Cobb's off-the-shelf maps, and by all accounts, they are conservative enough to be quite safe. :)

I've been wondering if it's a bad idea to run the 93 octane map on 93 octane fuel. I've never seen octane numbers higher than 93 in Texas, and I don't want to fool around with fuel additives. Do most people run a map rated for a lower octane fuel than what they put in the car?

When I had my Passat chipped, the tuner emphatically told me that it required 93 octane fuel ... which I fed it, and never it had any detonation or performance issues. But I have no idea what octane rating his maps were for...

[rporter]

I've been wondering if it's a bad idea to run the 93 octane map on 93 octane fuel. I've never seen octane numbers higher than 93 in Texas, and I don't want to fool around with fuel additives. Do most people run a map rated for a lower octane fuel than what they put in the car?

When I had my Passat chipped, the tuner emphatically told me that it required 93 octane fuel ... which I fed it, and never it had any detonation or performance issues. But I have no idea what octane rating his maps were for...

I run the Stage 1 93 octane base map, and have had no issues. 93 octane is common around here but I have run 92 octane from stations out of the area. In fact, there's 92 octane in the car now from a station in northern MI.
When I drove out to see my dad in Phoenix this past summer, I noticed that once got west of Amarillo, 90 was the highest octane at many stations. I flashed in the Stage 1 91 octane realtime map for the whole time that I was west of Amarillo, and had no issues. Felt a power loss, though. I loaded the Stage 1 93 octane realtime map once I got around Dallas on the way home.

[Bicster]

Around here all the pumps have 87, 90, and 93. I know I've seen (95? 96?) at some Sunoco stations in the northeast. I figured 93 was obtainable just about anywhere. Obviously I don't take many extended road trips. I guess it would be good to keep the AP with the car in case there is a fuel availability 'emergency' ... It's good to know the 93 map works properly with 93 fuel, though.

[LittleBlueGT]

If I reset a CEL with the AP will the cars ECU also be reset. I guess what I am asking is; will the car have to relearn stuff for the next couple of days?

[rporter]

If I reset a CEL with the AP will the cars ECU also be reset. I guess what I am asking is; will the car have to relearn stuff for the next couple of days?

It doesn't seem like it. I had a CEL I had to clear (forgot to plug the MAF sensor in after changing the air filter!!), and things seemed to be the same after that. I have always felt a difference with a new map before/after about 100 miles of driving.

[drewster]

CELs and all this brings up something that's been bugging me. I did a bonehead thing and gassed up and forgot to secure my gas cap. I drove for at least a couple of hours continuously on the freeway and only noticed the cap being off when i got home and saw the flap still open. :icon_frow I thought I would have gotten a CEL with no cap on. I know that some cars even have a warning light if the cap is left off. Is this a case of the AP doing its thing and suppressing a CEL?

[LittleBlueGT]

I think the light will go off with an unsecured cap at half a tank or less.

[vader1]

I run the Stage 1 93 octane base map, and have had no issues. 93 octane is common around here but I have run 92 octane from stations out of the area. In fact, there's 92 octane in the car now from a station in northern MI.
When I drove out to see my dad in Phoenix this past summer, I noticed that once got west of Amarillo, 90 was the highest octane at many stations. I flashed in the Stage 1 91 octane realtime map for the whole time that I was west of Amarillo, and had no issues. Felt a power loss, though. I loaded the Stage 1 93 octane realtime map once I got around Dallas on the way home.


I thought the ecu had a limit for number of flashes?.?.? How many times can you do this before you need a new ecu and at what cost?

[rporter]

I thought the ecu had a limit for number of flashes?.?.? How many times can you do this before you need a new ecu and at what cost?

This has been discussed in many threads on this forum (which a Search will produce), or you can read it directly from Cobb's website:

http://cobbtuning.com/legacy/accessport.html

It only applies to base map loads, and frankly it should not a factor for anyone. Even if you only do a couple of base map flashes a year (for updated base maps) smple math tells you that you have lots of time left.

If the LGT is like other cars, once a few get into boneyards a few years down the road, used ECUs shouldn't be more than a coupla hundred bucks at most.

[BDII]

BUmp

[ctwrx]

Hi all this is my first post on this site. I have recently sold my stage 2 manual -03 WRX with the Cobb Accessport stage 2 mapping. I have just passed the break in period on my 05 Legacy GT Auto. I know the stage 2 flash made a tremendous difference in my WRX's performance. I was just wondering if anyone could share their "seat of the pants" findings with an Accessport Stage 1 upgrade on a "stock" GT automatic. Information I have recently read indicates that instead of the 93 oct 290 HP and 305 torque for the standard, the auto only gets 273 HP and 300 torque. Pardon my ignorance but WHY? And is it worth the $645 for 23 HP and 50 Torque? Will it be that noticable:icon_ques
Thanks, I'd appreciate anyones input.

[rporter]

This had been mentioned in another thread, and since this is the main AP thread, with Cobb guys like Christian reading, I have one request for future AP upgrades:


Remove the speed limiter on the Cruise Control.


This has been an annoyance a few times over the last year, and I hit it again yesterday. If it can't be removed totally, getting it set anywhere aove the current 90 mph limit woud help a lot. Even my wife's Del Sol can be set over 90.

[Skillz]

Hi all this is my first post on this site. I have recently sold my stage 2 manual -03 WRX with the Cobb Accessport stage 2 mapping. I have just passed the break in period on my 05 Legacy GT Auto. I know the stage 2 flash made a tremendous difference in my WRX's performance. I was just wondering if anyone could share their "seat of the pants" findings with an Accessport Stage 1 upgrade on a "stock" GT automatic. Information I have recently read indicates that instead of the 93 oct 290 HP and 305 torque for the standard, the auto only gets 273 HP and 300 torque. Pardon my ignorance but WHY? And is it worth the $645 for 23 HP and 50 Torque? Will it be that noticable:icon_ques
Thanks, I'd appreciate anyones input.

Does anyone know if this is true for v1.15?

[sashadg1]

Why have nobody spoke on Boost Numbers? This is most important in building HP on Turbo cars. So what is the stock Boost and Stage1 boost and stage 2 boost? My Passat was 7 lbs stock and 16 lbs chipped. This was a 50 HP gain. It's possible our cars are already pushing high boost levels to begin with so Timing, Fuel and Air are focus points for tuning along with a 2 to 5 lb boost increase. Am I warm???
I'm going for the Cobb deal seems like the best choice for what I'm going to do.

Scott

[giotein]

i remember reading somewhere on the forum that with the Cobb Accessport, it is recommended that we stick with the stock airbox, or add a drop in filter by AVO, K&N.. etc.

I have done a search.. but there are just too many threads on accessports and ecu tuning. so.. hopefully i dont get the "search" from everyone.

my question would be..

i have a K&N Typhoon intake.. and IF what i read is true.. than Cobb only recommends stick with the stock airbox... or... im guessing with their intake products. I know we can get a custom tune and it may work... but..... yea...

so.. if this is true.. does this apply to other ECU tuning companies?? ECUtek.. Piggyback(?)....?

[Skillz]

Off the shelf units, yes but a custom tune should be able to make better use of your intake.

[sashadg1]

Custom tune for Intake only??? You would never notice even the slightest difference. The ECu would adjust and compensate for a minor part like that. Do you know what people charge for custom tuning?? You might see 1-2 HP from this. Not worth it. Temp from day to day would change your HP more than a custom tune for and intake. Let's think about this guys.
The reason they don't suggest them is because of hot air from under the hood. If the Typhoon is designed like the others I have used then it would be a plus for our car. Most K&N stuff is done real well and I have worked with them on many cars when at Eibach.
For tuning sake custom tune when you have done something major, I.E Turbo, Full Exhaust, COMBO Pulley,Intake,Exhaust installs things like that.

Does anybody know where I-Speed gets off charging $900.00 for their Reflash only with Tune? They claim a whooping 15 hp and 45 lbs. Tq.
AP is like 28 HP and 40 lbs Tq. for $645.00 and they developed it here in the USA and a US Spec car. Not from the stinking UK. I don't understand this>>>>

[giotein]

nah... not for just the intake.. i have other mods to.. but just curious because i remember reading that other members had problems with the car stuttering or shaking i guess.... so i was kind of confused...

[EJ255_alan]

well..since i do have a boost gauge in my GT..so I can tell how much boost you have, with my stocker, before with castrol 5W30 for the break-in period..seen 0.85~1 bar (14.7psi=1bar)..re. saw 1 bar reading at shiftup, right after releasing the clutch n slam on the gas ..now with the elf 5W40 it's steadily with in 0.8~0.85bar

if I remember right...cobb's set the stage 1 map aimed the peak at around 16psi

alan

[TSi+WRX]

A custom-map tune, via either ProTUNE/StreetTUNE or ECUTek, is highly recommended after the fitment of an aftermarket intake (any currently on-market, the K&N Typhoon is currently an "unknown," as it was introduced relatively recently), due to its potential to affect your AFR.

Read Cobb Tuning's AccessPORT FAQ or, better yet, contact them directly - you'll get this advise.

And yes, enough of us have had our LGTs on the dyno/logged to know that such intakes can indeed cause leaner AFRs as well as higher EGTs. There are several threads in the technical forums which documents this, for anyone who must have a visual reference. On my vehicle, even though I had not logged, this phenomenon (which was, for me, seen between 1800 to 2500 RPM) was observed during my tuning sessions, including at "baseline," and was something that my tuner specifically had to correct for.

In my view, a custom tune "for an intake" really isn't all that much about power (certainly, it won't hurt, and at least one LGT.com member cited gains of upwards of 15 wHP from an intake alone, with their specific-vehicle custom-tune - your gains may vary), but rather, to insure that you won't adversely impact your engine.

It's simply to cover for something that an "off-the-shelf" map cannot account for with specific-hardware -to- specific vehicle variances.

[sashadg1]

Yes i did read up on the FAQ on Cobb about this. I guess I'm simply going off All the Turbo cars I have had. I thought the Passat was the worst with getting foul; ups when tweaking things. I would have never thought in a million years that a simple intake would trip this car up. I would think the car would have enough auto adjust in the timing and in the ecu to adapt toa a m inor change as this. If what your saying is true then a dirty filter could have the same effect.
Other thing to think about is K&N as done plenty of R&D work when producing this air filter. If there was a problem to the caliber your taking about they would not make a filter system for the car period. They would have major tech calls about this already and would have put this part on hold.
I will contact them now that I'm online again and get one from them and test it myself.
I'll let everybody know what I come up with
Scott

[TDC Tuning]

Yes i did read up on the FAQ on Cobb about this. I guess I'm simply going off All the Turbo cars I have had. I thought the Passat was the worst with getting foul; ups when tweaking things. I would have never thought in a million years that a simple intake would trip this car up. I would think the car would have enough auto adjust in the timing and in the ecu to adapt toa a m inor change as this. If what your saying is true then a dirty filter could have the same effect.
Other thing to think about is K&N as done plenty of R&D work when producing this air filter. If there was a problem to the caliber your taking about they would not make a filter system for the car period. They would have major tech calls about this already and would have put this part on hold.
I will contact them now that I'm online again and get one from them and test it myself.
I'll let everybody know what I come up with
Scott 99% of intakes WILL LEAN THE CAR OUT
and most will affect the timing a bit


Some of you guys are QUITE mislead about ahow the ECU "adjusts"

ill go into a bit about it:

Short Term Fuel Trim Description
The short term fuel trim is a ECU erasable memory register. The neutral value for the short term fuel trim is 0%. Any deviation from 0% indicates the short term fuel trim is changing the injector pulse width. The amount of pulse width change depends on how far the short term fuel trim value is from 0%. The short term fuel trim is rich when the scan tool indicates (up to )-25%. The short term fuel trim is lean when the scan tool indicates 25%. The short term fuel trim changes the pulse width by varying the Closed Loop factor of the base pulse width equation. As the ECU monitors the oxygen sensors input, it is constantly varying the short term fuel trim value. The value is updated very quickly, therefore, the short term fuel trim only corrects for short term mixture trends. THe correction of long term mixture trends is the function of long term fuel trim.

Long Term Fuel Trim Description
The long term fuel trim is a matrix of cells arranged by RPM and MAP. Each cell of the long term fuel trim is a register like the short term fuel trim. As the engine operating conditions change, the ECU will switch from cell to cell to determine what long term fuel trim factor to use in the base pulse width equation.

While in any given cell, the ECU also monitors the short term fuel trim. If the short term fuel trim is far enough from 0%, the ECU will change the long term fuel trim value. Once the LTFT value is changed, it should force the STFT back toward 0%. If the mixture is still not correct (as judged by the HO2S), the STFT will continue to have a large deviation from the ideal 0%. In this case, the LTFT will continue to change until the STFT becomes balanced. Both the STFT and LTFT have limits which vary by calibration. If the mixture is off enough so that LTFT reaches the limit of its control and still cannot correct the condition, the STFT would also go to its limit of control in the same direction. If the mixture is still not corrected by both STFT and LTFT at their extreme values, a Fuel Trim Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) will likely result.That being said, lets adapt to an intake and a subaru

so you put on an intake
and your STFT goes to lets say +7% (adding 7% to achieve 14.7:1)
after driving arounf the LTFT will ty to correct that and the TLFT will be +7%
so while cruising in Closed loop the 02 corrects for the intake.

THEN YOU FLOOR IT
LT AND ST trims go to 0% (thats what they do) and the car runs off the maps
Here lies the problem that 7% that was needed is now gone
and your afr will be Off due to the fact the intake causes a lean condition.
All of a sudden you are 7% off and AFR is important!

The other problem is
the loads can be affected by an intake. If the internal diameter and flow is not like stock.
Lets say the stock LGT intake is 72MM and your new intake is 75MM
Its just 3mm right? WELLLLLL
that will change the load a bit (not as much as say a big maf) but a bit
so now the timing is slightly advanced and the mixture is leaner.....
w00t you make more power (thats what happens when u do that )
BUt you lose that saftey

The subaru ECU is WAY smarter than you are, so it combats knock and impending knock by retarding the knock advance (knoch correction, Dynamic advance)
but that reduces power......

i could go on but i wont....

There is so much involved just slapping on parts whilly nilly can and WILL affect things, and the ecu may adjust , just not the way you thinkit will.

I have tuned intakes, lots, APS, Cobb, K&N , AEM, Custom, Blow thru MAF
and many more.

I can say that a cobb intake = GREAT GET ONE if you want an intake
I can say that a K&N intake = MEH , on an sti i did it made his life horrible, on an LGT it was ok, on another lgt it was a PITA.

Perrin = Confused me, i ordered one For an LGT (72MM inlet) they sent me a 68 MM wrx in a LGT box, I called explained and they claimed it was fine.........
no thanks. I put it on an Sti and got a differnt one for the LGT

APS= whacky , needs a tune
AEM = needs a tune
Perrin big maf = the bain of my existance, ask Christian or Scans about that

im rambling now

PM or IM if u have questions

[km580]

I would like to know how many AP users have gotten rid of the dreded stutter probem with the AP. I plan on getting an AP in the next week or so.

[TDC Tuning]

I would like to know how many AP users have gotten rid of the dreded stutter probem with the AP. I plan on getting an AP in the next week or so.

for a $150 custom map i have it elimiated (and more power than stage 1 and 2 )
or WITH an ap for $700 shipped!!

[psucaptainkickass]

I would like to know how many AP users have gotten rid of the dreded stutter probem with the AP. I plan on getting an AP in the next week or so.
You know what I noticed:
I tried out my friends AP for the weekend back during Thanksgiving, and it was cold. When I did that the stutter was gone. I know that the ECU is effectively reset when putting a map on, so I figured that was why it was gone, and eventually it will come back.

The weekend comes to a close and I take the AP off, and go on my merry way. The thing is, its like a month and a half later, and I still don't have the stutter. I have driven at least another 1000 miles on the car, so it should have showed up.

Now here is my theory..I don't know if it holds water, but here goes.
I bought my car in July, and at the time, I didn't feel too much stutter..at least enough for me to complain about it. So I am driving it for like 3-4k miles and then Fall hits and things start to cool down. Then I start getting the stutter, so I am like..oh it is because of the cold weather that it is getting more apparent.

I then do that AP stuff mentioned earlier Thanksgiving weekend, effectively resetting my ECU. But when the ECU was reset, it was COLD outside, like 35-40 degrees, and the weather has been like that ever since then. Is it possible that the COLD brings on the stutter, and that by reflashing in the cold, and having the ECU relearn in the cold, it has learned to control or reduce the stutter?

[PDXTuning]

When you removed your friends AP from your car you likely got a new map on your ECU. The AP puts a stock map back on, not necessarily the same map your car had on it. The map they put back on may not have the stutter problem.

You know what I noticed:
I tried out my friends AP for the weekend back during Thanksgiving, and it was cold. When I did that the stutter was gone. I know that the ECU is effectively reset when putting a map on, so I figured that was why it was gone, and eventually it will come back.

The weekend comes to a close and I take the AP off, and go on my merry way. The thing is, its like a month and a half later, and I still don't have the stutter. I have driven at least another 1000 miles on the car, so it should have showed up.

Now here is my theory..I don't know if it holds water, but here goes.
I bought my car in July, and at the time, I didn't feel too much stutter..at least enough for me to complain about it. So I am driving it for like 3-4k miles and then Fall hits and things start to cool down. Then I start getting the stutter, so I am like..oh it is because of the cold weather that it is getting more apparent.

I then do that AP stuff mentioned earlier Thanksgiving weekend, effectively resetting my ECU. But when the ECU was reset, it was COLD outside, like 35-40 degrees, and the weather has been like that ever since then. Is it possible that the COLD brings on the stutter, and that by reflashing in the cold, and having the ECU relearn in the cold, it has learned to control or reduce the stutter?

[psucaptainkickass]

When you removed your friends AP from your car you likely got a new map on your ECU. The AP puts a stock map back on, not necessarily the same map your car had on it. The map they put back on may not have the stutter problem.

Very true, I hadn't thought about that. What happens if you disconnect the battery? Will it reset the ECU totally - making it like it came from the factory? Or does it retain the stock map that the AP put on? Not saying I want to do that since there is no stutter, but I am just thinking out loud here.

[PDXTuning]

Nice post TDC, very informative, but I wanted to add a couple things to this.

Long term fuel trims will actually change the open loop fueling. So some of the effects of the intake will diminish as the long term fueling adjusts.

As TDC stated the larger MAF housing will increase timing. The ECU is primarily run off the load calculated from the MAF voltage. Anytime you decrease the MAF voltage you are making the ECU calculate the load incorrectly. Since as a general rule less timing is run for more load, you get more timing with the leaning out effect. This is what is so dangerous about running intakes on our cars. The entire architecture of the ECU requires the load to be properly calculated.

Most intakes can be tuned for, but you really should only run an intake when required. The timing changes and fueling changes should be accomplished through proper tuning, not with a global alteration of the calculated air flow into the motor.

Jarrad

99% of intakes WILL LEAN THE CAR OUT
and most will affect the timing a bit


Some of you guys are QUITE mislead about ahow the ECU "adjusts"

ill go into a bit about it:
.........

[nhesketh]

Very true, I hadn't thought about that. What happens if you disconnect the battery? Will it reset the ECU totally - making it like it came from the factory? Or does it retain the stock map that the AP put on? Not saying I want to do that since there is no stutter, but I am just thinking out loud here.

If you disconnect the battery, it goes back to whatever BASE map you have loaded from the AP. If you are running a stock AP base map with other real time maps over it, then it will go back to the stock AP base map. If you are running a stage 1 93 octane map as your base, it will revert to that. Disconnecting the batter clears out the real-time map. To get to the absolute stock setting like straight from the factory, you have to un-install the AP, which has the effect of flashing your ECU back to the factory setting, like it was never modified at all.

[jcole05]

Question for Christian (if he's still monitoring this thread) or for anyone else. Thinking of going the AP route, but trying to understand the graphs posted on Cobb's website. Under "stage 1 power pkg" for the legacy GT, you see a beautiful graph clearly showing a nice increase in power throughout the rpm range.

But looking at the map notes for v1.15, the curve isn't quite so pretty. You get NO increase in power until above 3200rpm or so, and the overall increase looks more minimal.

Any reason for the difference in these graphs? Power down low in the rpm range is important to me, as I often stay in the 2500-3500 range for daily commuting. If I go stage 1, will I see any difference down here? As I say, one of Cobb's graphs says I will, the other says I won't.

My guess is, a lot of you will say go to stage 2 w/ up and dp to get quicker spool and much more overall power. I may do this, but was still thinking about starting at stage 1.

Thanks for any input.

[km580]

Her is a quick (and maybe stupid) question. Would I damage anything by useing a stage 2 R/T map without any modifications. I know I would not get the potential of the map without at least a downpipe. I was just curious.:(

[derffred]

Her is a quick (and maybe stupid) question. Would I damage anything by useing a stage 2 R/T map without any modifications. I know I would not get the potential of the map without at least a downpipe. I was just curious.:(

i was thinking the same exact thing... maybe you'd get a quicker car... however i don't think it would run very efficient.. it would put fuel and boost in areas that's not necessary and would probably make your engine run terribly... that's my assumption.. any others?

[rporter]

If you do a search through these AP threads, there is a post from either Christian or Trey from Cobb about this. IIRC, they basically say that the car would probably run slower, with less power, if you don't at least have a better downpipe with Stage 2.

[AWD-Turbo]

Her is a quick (and maybe stupid) question. Would I damage anything by useing a stage 2 R/T map without any modifications. I know I would not get the potential of the map without at least a downpipe. I was just curious.:(
If you don’t have any engine mods, that’s what cobb stage 1 is for. You will make more power with cobb stage 1 on an otherwise stock engine than with stage 2.

[km580]

OK, thanks guys.

[LegacyGTSC]

I got my AP like 4 days ago and I am running stage 2 93 oct. which should yield around 16psi, correct? Well I'm only getting 11.5 or 11.8psi which is upsetting me. LOL. I need more power, but don't we all. I talked to Cobb and the rep. said that it may take up to two weeks to reach desired boost levels. Is this true? Is it like this with every AP on the 05 LGT's ? I know that I'm new with the whole AP thing since my last car was a 92 SVX LS-L but I would expect something more like the instant difference from the ECU chip that I installed on my SVX. But I'd appreciate any feedback on that subject.

[TDC Tuning]

I got my AP like 4 days ago and I am running stage 2 93 oct. which should yield around 16psi, correct? Well I'm only getting 11.5 or 11.8psi which is upsetting me. LOL. I need more power, but don't we all. I talked to Cobb and the rep. said that it may take up to two weeks to reach desired boost levels. Is this true? Is it like this with every AP on the 05 LGT's ? I know that I'm new with the whole AP thing since my last car was a 92 SVX LS-L but I would expect something more like the instant difference from the ECU chip that I installed on my SVX. But I'd appreciate any feedback on that subject.

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