Enginuity Tune (vs. Ecutek)

[Legend]

On 7/31 my car had an Ecutek tune for stage 2 (SPT intake, Titek UP, Perrin catted DP, SPT cbe). I was disappointed with the results. 210HP, 226TQ. Granted this is on a Dyno Dynamics at 5300 ft. but I still expected 230HP based on what I had seen in this area (Denver). My peak boost was 14.0, and the tuner and I agreed we would push it to 15.5. The Ecutek software would not respond, and for the last several weeks my peak boost has been 12.7. Ecutek reverted to an odd somewhat stock sort of tune and would not even let the original tune back. I was not the only client with the Ecutek problem. To make a long, long story short, see my other thread about the Ecutek tune.... http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67412 Bottom line is 3 or 4 of us needed Ecutek for a fix with their software and weeks went by with nothing. Enter Enginuity.

Another tuner at the same shop did this Enginuity tune (but the Ecutek tuner was also there and witnessed this tune). Same dyno, same car. Much better results.

Stock LGT's get 170-175HP on this dyno. Mwiener got 234 and he is the highest 2.5L turbo stage 2 on this dyno. I got 228 and I am happy with that with my 18" wheel/tire package. I got some pretty sweet AUC on these power curves and I am real happy. Here are the dyno sheets. Note that as boost increases, peak HP decreases! The tuner explained that any turbo (or any fan for that matter) has an ideal efficiency and pushing it past that efficiency results in less power. Interesting. It looks like I do better with a peak of ~14.2 vs. a peak of 15.5.

More later... Logs coming soon.. I'm anxious to see my MAF now. I was moving good air (for Denver) of 208 g/sec before and will be interesting to see what it is now.

[awalla5150]

good results

[2005garnetGT]

good stuff

[MiniStiGuy]

glad to see you got a change now....

[BigHonu]

Nice!

[enthusiast]

So, the place in Boulder has two different tuners there? I thought there was only one.

Interesting.

[Legend]

Alright I did some quick logs this a.m. Two runs, both on hills unfortunately... one up and one down. The car feels good and I am moving a lot of air for Denver (215 g/s).

Thoughts? Room for improvement??

[mickeyd2005]

That is a much better tune than before.

It could still use some tweaking for slightly more power between 2500 and 4000 rpm.

If you look at your timing between 3000 and 3500 rpm, you will always find a drop in total timing by 3 degrees with no change in KC. This is not knock. This is a secondary timing compensation and it interferes with proper tuning of your timing. enginuity refers to it as a secondary temperature compensation but SOA filled all values with the same value (3 degrees), so it really doesn't vary with temperature. The logic is such that it turns on and off anywhere between 3000 and 3500 rpm. I usually reduce this value to 1 across the board and adjust timing manually via the base timing.

Take a look at your uphill log. Your minimum timing is 11 degrees between 3500 and 3600 rpm. However, your boost onset is really closer to 3100 rpm. I would expect the minimum timing to be between 3000-3100 rpm and you could probably run more timing at 3500-3600 rpm.

The AVCS looks convservative.

Overall, it looks like a fine tune. Sometimes, enginuity tuners will update your maps via email for a small fee.

[mickeyd2005]

FYI. I just finished helping BigHonu tune his LGT Stage 1. We'll see how his AVCS works out.

http://www.enginuity.org/viewtopic.php?t=2265&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=c08d732ab48af03760129358eb494388

BTW, AVCS is a b*tch to tune without real timing tuning.

[LittleBlueGT]

This is a secondary timing compensation and it interferes with proper tuning of your timing. enginuity refers to it as a secondary temperature compensation but SOA filled all values with the same value (3 degrees), so it really doesn't vary with temperature.


First I have heard of this compensation. Does COBB stage 2 adjust this table? I figure they must as this table is not available in ST (unless I am not picturing the correct thing). I used COBB stage2 as starting point and I have no 3 degree dip anywhere in my timing.

[2005garnetGT]

nm, map is on my other comp

[mickeyd2005]

First I have heard of this compensation. Does COBB stage 2 adjust this table? I figure they must as this table is not available in ST (unless I am not picturing the correct thing). I used COBB stage2 as starting point and I have no 3 degree dip anywhere in my timing.

That's why you should learn how to use Airboy's spreadsheet. It is very obvious.

I've seen this dip on old Cobb Stage 2 and old Protune datalogs posted here:

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22604&highlight=datalogging+results&page=15

Recently, the datalogs from Protuned cars do not seem to have this dip, so I am assuming that Cobb added it to their Protuner software and tuners know how to deal with it. Your protuner may have already turned off this compensation for you or Cobb may have hacked the rom. I don't know, but I do know how to take care of it in Enginuity.

Here is a datalog that I borrowed from praedet dated 5/27/2006. Notice the dip at 3200 rpm. It is exactly 3 degrees. However, KC is flat. I've seen it time and time again. The problem with it is that it is unpredictable. It turns off anywhere between 3000 and 3500 rpm depending upon the rpm that the datalog was started.

[mickeyd2005]

First I have heard of this compensation. Does COBB stage 2 adjust this table? I figure they must as this table is not available in ST (unless I am not picturing the correct thing). I used COBB stage2 as starting point and I have no 3 degree dip anywhere in my timing.

Okay, I went through all your datalogs that you posted. You've never posted a clean 2000 to redline datalog with both total timing and KC.

It's time you post up.

[Legend]

Okay... getting into uncharted territory for me but it really looks pretty easy. I went and made 4 changes to my Enginuity tune:

1) Went into the Timing Compensation B (Intake Temp) and changed all values from 3.16 to 1.05

2) Changed Target Boost A.My table had 16.2's running all the way to redline at 95% throttle. I used Mickey's target boost table and now have it tapering to 10.64 at 6800. My MAF at redline is about 10 less than before, but probably safer now(?) Or can I raise those a little higher towards the 16.2 they were? My partial throttle table looks like it wasn't tuned... I populated the partial throttle part also and it feels nicer now.

3) Changed Max WGDC. Again, I used Mickey's. Similar story to the target boost table... more tapering in full throttle (was 90's and 80's all the way down) and again totally changed the partial throttle table.

4) Changed Initial Wastegate Duty. Same story as Max WGDC, used Mickey's table.


Your thoughts?? Thanks Mickey. Is it time to play with timing?

[mickeyd2005]

Hey, sorry if I wasn't more clear.

Don't use BigHonu's WGDC and boost targets. Those are for stage 1 and they are optimized for BigHonu. Your values are fine.

All I recommend is that you adjust your AVCS table and adjust your timing.

If you pull values from your Timing Compensation B, then you can add that back to your Base timing, but you can only add it where it was active to begin with. It's not straightforward.

For starters, use your professionally tuned map and the only thing I recommend that you change is your AVCS. Don't change your timing yet. Then check your timing because it might knock. Then the second thing you need to do is identify where the timing compensation takes hold.

[Legend]

Thanks Mickey. I'll change back to my tuned map, but in your opinion is it okay not to have any taper in boost targets/wg?

What about partial throttle? Your 3 tables (for honu) were more graduated... I like the looks of it.

Should I just leave my timing compensation table B alone (3.16 across) until I have a greater understanding of what I am doing?

[2005garnetGT]

Okay... getting into uncharted territory for me but it really looks pretty easy. I went and made 4 changes to my Enginuity tune:

1) Went into the Timing Compensation B (Intake Temp) and changed all values from 3.16 to 1.05

2) Changed Target Boost A.My table had 16.2's running all the way to redline at 95% throttle. I used Mickey's target boost table and now have it tapering to 10.64 at 6800. My MAF at redline is about 10 less than before, but probably safer now(?) Or can I raise those a little higher towards the 16.2 they were? My partial throttle table looks like it wasn't tuned... I populated the partial throttle part also and it feels nicer now.

3) Changed Max WGDC. Again, I used Mickey's. Similar story to the target boost table... more tapering in full throttle (was 90's and 80's all the way down) and again totally changed the partial throttle table.

4) Changed Initial Wastegate Duty. Same story as Max WGDC, used Mickey's table.


Your thoughts?? Thanks Mickey. Is it time to play with timing?

I'd recommend a taper from peak boost down to 13 psi at redline, you should be flowing more there then at either 16 or 10.6 psi.

[LittleBlueGT]

That's why you should learn how to use Airboy's spreadsheet. It is very obvious.

I've seen this dip on old Cobb Stage 2 and old Protune datalogs posted here:

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22604&highlight=datalogging+results&page=15

Recently, the datalogs from Protuned cars do not seem to have this dip, so I am assuming that Cobb added it to their Protuner software and tuners know how to deal with it. Your protuner may have already turned off this compensation for you or Cobb may have hacked the rom. I don't know, but I do know how to take care of it in Enginuity.

Here is a datalog that I borrowed from praedet dated 5/27/2006. Notice the dip at 3200 rpm. It is exactly 3 degrees. However, KC is flat. I've seen it time and time again. The problem with it is that it is unpredictable. It turns off anywhere between 3000 and 3500 rpm depending upon the rpm that the datalog was started.

I do use airboy's sheet, I have played with it for literally hours already, but find some features of hard to use, especially seeing that I can't just take a flash of my rom and cut and paste it in cause all of my values (for the most part) are on a RT map.

My base map is now a COBB stage2 1.16, not a pro-tune map, and I don;t see the dip. I did order ST advanced so maybe I will see the table there.

Here is a log (I know I still have some timing corrections to make, but the good news is my WB is arriving today!)

[mickeyd2005]

My base map is now a COBB stage2 1.16, not a pro-tune map, and I don;t see the dip. I did order ST advanced so maybe I will see the table there.


Okay, I don't have a Cobb AP so I can only go by what's posted here.

I have seen the dip in Cobb Stg2 datalogs from last year. That's all I know.

[mickeyd2005]

Thanks Mickey. I'll change back to my tuned map, but in your opinion is it okay not to have any taper in boost targets/wg?

What about partial throttle? Your 3 tables (for honu) were more graduated... I like the looks of it.

Should I just leave my timing compensation table B alone (3.16 across) until I have a greater understanding of what I am doing?

For now, don't touch any of the boost or WG tables. I don't know what your tuner did or what his philosophy is. You can't change one without the other. So, just leave it.

You can change the comp table but you would effectively lose a little bit of power. The advantage of dropping the comp table value to 1 is that you can later add it back to your base timing. Don't do it yourself. It's actually splitting hairs so if your car is not knocking and there are no hiccups in driving, I would leave it for now.

You can try the more aggressive AVCS table that I posted in the end of BigHonu's tuning thread. However, be aware that the advance might require pulling some timing so watch out for that.

Keep in mind that the boost target is actually adjusted in the ecu for atmospheric pressure. I believe it uses the STi compensation model:

ATM comp
ATM, psi 7.89 8.51 9.13 9.74 10.37 10.98 11.6 12.22 12.84 13.46 14.08 14.7
Comp, % -33.9 -30.7 -27.5 -24.3 -21.0 -17.8 -14.6 -11.4 -8.1 -4.9 -1.7 0

[2005garnetGT]

Keep in mind that the boost target is actually a pressure ratio in the ecu. In enginuity, it is viewed as a relative pressure at sea level only for convenience. When we say 13 psi at redline, we mean PR=1.89 which would be 10.62 psi when atmospheric pressure = 12 psi.


yeah, sorry for assuming you were at sea level like I am. (210 feet above, pretty inconsequential)

[Legend]

Alright I'm back to my pro-tuned map. BTW, here are my pro-tuned tables I referenced before... I am still curious about partial throttle. These seem like they could be better(?)

Target Boost A
0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.10 0.10 0.19 0.97
0.77 0.77 0.97 1.93 1.84 1.93 2.32 6.19
0.77 0.77 3.48 6.19 7.73 8.12 8.31 16.20
0.77 0.77 4.06 8.89 10.83 11.60 11.80 16.20
0.77 0.77 2.32 8.12 10.25 11.60 11.99 16.20
0.77 0.77 0.77 5.80 8.89 10.44 11.41 16.20
0.77 0.77 0.77 3.29 6.96 9.09 10.25 16.20
0.77 0.77 0.77 2.32 5.80 8.12 9.48 16.20
0.77 0.77 0.77 1.35 4.64 7.15 8.89 16.20
0.77 0.77 0.77 0.77 3.87 6.57 8.51 16.20
0.77 0.77 0.77 0.77 3.67 6.19 8.12 16.20
0.77 0.77 0.77 0.77 3.29 5.80 6.57 16.20

MAX WGD
0.0 90.0 90.0 90.0 90.0 90.0 90.0 95.0
63.8 63.8 63.8 63.8 63.8 63.8 63.8 95.0
58.8 58.8 58.8 58.8 58.8 58.8 58.8 85.0
56.0 56.0 56.0 56.0 56.0 56.0 56.0 80.0
56.0 56.0 56.0 56.0 56.0 56.0 56.0 80.0
54.0 54.0 54.0 54.0 54.0 54.0 54.0 80.0
51.0 51.0 51.0 51.0 51.0 51.0 51.0 80.0
48.0 48.0 48.0 48.0 48.0 48.0 48.0 80.0
49.0 49.0 49.0 49.0 49.0 49.0 49.0 85.0
40.0 40.0 40.0 40.0 40.0 40.0 40.0 85.0
40.0 40.0 40.0 40.0 40.0 40.0 40.0 85.0

Initial WGD
0.0 90.0 90.0 90.0 90.0 90.0 90.0 90.0
56.8 56.8 56.8 56.8 56.8 56.8 56.8 90.0
51.8 51.8 51.8 51.8 51.8 51.8 51.8 80.0
49.0 49.0 49.0 49.0 49.0 49.0 49.0 70.0
49.0 49.0 49.0 49.0 49.0 49.0 49.0 70.0
47.0 47.0 47.0 47.0 47.0 47.0 47.0 70.0
44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 44.0 70.0
41.0 41.0 41.0 41.0 41.0 41.0 41.0 70.0
42.0 42.0 42.0 42.0 42.0 42.0 42.0 75.0
33.0 33.0 33.0 33.0 33.0 33.0 33.0 75.0
33.0 33.0 33.0 33.0 33.0 33.0 33.0 75.0

[2005garnetGT]

16.2 psi target, at redline, at your altitude, is a terrible idea.

[Legend]

16.2 psi target, at redline, at your altitude, is a terrible idea.

That's my gut feeling too, but it never gets to 16.2 psi...

From the data log, it's...

13.9 at 3000rpm
peaks at 16.0 around 4500rpm
drops to 15.0 at 4100rpm
drops to 14.0 at 5100rpm
drops to 13.0 at 5400rpm
drops to 12.0 at 5800rpm
drops to 11.0 at 6100rpm
then stays at 10.3 until redline

So, despite the target being 16.2 until redline the boost is not near that high... thoughts?

[LittleBlueGT]

16.2 psi target, at redline, at your altitude, is a terrible idea.

Many don't do it, but I would take full advantage of the WGDC baro pressure compensation tables. I live close to sea level so it is not a big deal for me, but next time I am in the mountains I can gaurantee my wife will be driving as I log and figure out an app baro (elevation kind of) compensation that works for my turbo and config.

I am sure some have done this for the VF40, if not then figure out what boost works well for your altitude, then compare that with what most run at sea level and do the simple math.

[2005garnetGT]

I use the factory-unused coolent temp compensations, but since I don't really change elevation much, don't use the baro-comp table

[2005garnetGT]

That's my gut feeling too, but it never gets to 16.2 psi...

From the data log, it's...

13.9 at 3000rpm
peaks at 16.0 around 4500rpm
drops to 15.0 at 4100rpm
drops to 14.0 at 5100rpm
drops to 13.0 at 5400rpm
drops to 12.0 at 5800rpm
drops to 11.0 at 6100rpm
then stays at 10.3 until redline

So, despite the target being 16.2 until redline the boost is not near that high... thoughts?


the air at the inducer of your compressor is going supersonic and not flowing at all, which is choking off compressor flow.

you might also be overspinning the turbo, but since we don't have compressor charts for the vf40 there isn't any real way to know

[Legend]

the air at the inducer of your compressor is going supersonic and not flowing at all, which is choking off compressor flow.

you might also be overspinning the turbo, but since we don't have compressor charts for the vf40 there isn't any real way to know

Sounds like I need to taper. Any suggestions?

[mickeyd2005]

The tuner is using the max WGDC to control boost.

I've seen it before. The free OTS osecuroms stage 1 tune is like this as well. Basically, the target boost is set much higher than you can realistically hit with the given WGDC.

Believe it or not, this is pretty common practice amongst many tuners. I have seen datalogs with boost error logged of several reputable tuners and they all had large positive boost errors at rpm > 4500.

You can do datalogs in 3rd gear all day long and it will be fine.

The problem is that in 4th gear and 5th gear, you will boost higher. So, the question is ...

1. If the higher boost is acceptable in 4th gear, why not use it in 3rd gear?
2. or if the higher boost is not safe in 3rd gear, why allow it in 4th gear?

Philosophically, I don't agree with this. I like to tune my target boost such that in 3rd gear, it requires max WGDC to hit target boost. And, target boost is achieved above 3000 rpm (boost error is close to zero).

Below 3000 rpm, I allow boost to build higher in the higher gears, but it is still capped at what it would be at 3000 rpm in 3rd gear.

[boostsr20]

Basically they are throwing all the boost they can at a small turbo and telling it to hol don for dear life. LOL I'm trying to learn Enginuity and tuning in general and like MIckey said, alot of tunes I see use this method of boost control.

What would I want to do to get more boost in first gear? IS there even anything that can be done since load is so low?

Also I'm having trouble with raising the rev limiter. I have it set to 7100 but it still kicks on at 6700. I thought my Tach may be off so I raised it to 7400 and sure enough it still kicks in at 6700. Is there another table that needs to be changed to make it work? I'd like to be able to finish the 1/4 in 3rd gear after the VF40/18G install.

2005garnetGT: Have you been able to effectively raise the rev limit on your 5eat?

[2005garnetGT]

Basically they are throwing all the boost they can at a small turbo and telling it to hol don for dear life. LOL I'm trying to learn Enginuity and tuning in general and like MIckey said, alot of tunes I see use this method of boost control.

What would I want to do to get more boost in first gear? IS there even anything that can be done since load is so low?

Also I'm having trouble with raising the rev limiter. I have it set to 7100 but it still kicks on at 6700. I thought my Tach may be off so I raised it to 7400 and sure enough it still kicks in at 6700. Is there another table that needs to be changed to make it work? I'd like to be able to finish the 1/4 in 3rd gear after the VF40/18G install.

2005garnetGT: Have you been able to effectively raise the rev limit on your 5eat?
yeah, its set at 7200 rpms, at which point the 5eat will still occasionally smack into the soft limiter.

the hard limiter problem is completely gone, it was the "rev limit fuel resume" psi problem I had talked about earlier.

btw, TDC stage 2 maps have NOT had that raised. I doubt the table is even there in protuner....

[boostsr20]

I can't figure out why I keep hitting it at 6700. I have it raised to 7300 via enginuity in the "misc" folder. Is there somewhere else I need to change values also?

[Legend]

The tuner is using the max WGDC to control boost.

I've seen it before. The free OTS osecuroms stage 1 tune is like this as well. Basically, the target boost is set much higher than you can realistically hit with the given WGDC.

Believe it or not, this is pretty common practice amongst many tuners. I have seen datalogs with boost error logged of several reputable tuners and they all had large positive boost errors at rpm > 4500.

So... is this okay (to use max WGDC to control boost)?? What is the advantage of controlling boost this way? Should I address this or let it be?

[mickeyd2005]

I think the tune is fine compared to the many other protuned datalogs that I have seen. It's just not finished. Time on the dyno is expensive. Maybe the tuner didn't get a chance to tweak it.

Technically, I think you're overboosting between 3000 and 4000 rpm and you're underboosting above 5000 rpm. When boost overshoots, you'll get some boost oscillations as the ecu tries to keep it down by adjusting WGDC.

Do another datalog in 3rd gear and this time log boost error. Then you can email it to your tuner and ask him to adjust the tables for you.

Now that I have seen your tables... I recommend that you not do a 4th gear wot run yet.

BTW, this is VERY common in many protuned logs that I have seen. You have the advantage of being able to see your tune. Most people are oblivious to it.

[mickeyd2005]

In your next datalog, can you datalog manifold absolute pressure (MAP). Delete atmospheric pressure. You can check that before the datalog and just tell us the atmospheric pressure or we can assume it is 12.19 psi.

[2005garnetGT]

I can't figure out why I keep hitting it at 6700. I have it raised to 7300 via enginuity in the "misc" folder. Is there somewhere else I need to change values also?

check your throttle duty cycle table to make sure its not closing the throttle at 6700 is all I can say...

what rom revision are you running

[mwiener2]

Mwiener got 234 and he is the highest 2.5L turbo stage 2 on this dyno.


:icon_bigg:icon_bigg:icon_bigg

[hadvw]

I can't figure out why I keep hitting it at 6700. I have it raised to 7300 via enginuity in the "misc" folder. Is there somewhere else I need to change values also?


I thought I read somewhere there are 3 different rev limit settings? Or is that a different setting that has 3 different tables that need to be changed?

HV

[2005garnetGT]

I thought I read somewhere there are 3 different rev limit settings? Or is that a different setting that has 3 different tables that need to be changed?

HV

thats the top speed limiter

[boostsr20]

I'm running the 510C. I don't have my map with me as I'm on Vacation in Morgantown WV. Leaving for the game soon. GO WVU!!!

EDIT: I am running the STI throttle duty table though. I'd think it would be scaled higher than 6700 for sure.

[hadvw]

thats the top speed limiter

Ah, my bad.

HV

[Legend]

Here's a new log with boost error logged for the first time. I had a friend driving and the logs only go to 6200rpm.... thoughts on boost error here? Next time I'll get the manifold absolute pressure and turn off the atm.

As usual, 91 octane gas. 5300ft.

[mickeyd2005]

It's not as bad as I thought. It's probably fine.

You can try a log from 2000-4000 rpm in 4th gear and then in 5th gear. You might see 2 degrees of timing pulled, but that should be it.

[Legend]

Here's a fresh log this a.m. It was my first time logging Manifold Absolute Pressure. (Dang it forgot to get boost error logged in this one)

Conditions: 55F ambient temp, 91 octane, uphill, 12.19 atm (5300ft)

Peak boost of 15.96 at ~3600rpm
Peak MAF of 218.62 at 7000rpm (also >211 after 5600)
Hmmm... hit 96mph in 3rd so I may not have to shift out of 3rd when I do the 1320 (at 5200ft).

[Legend]

I went through every table in Enginuity comparing my dyno tune to the stock ROM.

The following tables are the ones that were modified during the tune (all other tables untouched).


BOOST- Target Boost A (and B) MT (and AT)

- Boost Limit (Fuel Cut)

WASTEGATE - Initial Wastegate Duty A (and B) MT (and AT)

- Initial Wastegate Duty Alternate (RPM)

- Max Wastegate Duty MT (and AT)

FUEL - Open Loop Fueling (Primary)

TIMING - Base Timing

- Advance Multiplier (Initial)

MISC - Rev Limit

- Speed Limiting A, B, and C
I have attached screen shots of each of these tables (except for the MISC tables). Each screen shot shows the tuned table above and the stock table (510n) below.

Thoughts anyone??

[LittleBlueGT]

Target boost is 16 psi at red-line on a VF40? I think that is a little too high.

[SeeeeeYa]

Personally, I don't think much of how the boost is being developed here.

On the subject of WGDC and boost I suggest, strongly, that the Cobb documents here

http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31091

be read and understood. As it stands now the WGDC and boost targets are haphazard and except, maybe, for WOT not nearly as much fun to drive as a tune with these tables populated correctly.

IMHO, tuning is more than about max numbers on a log, it is about the day to day pleasure of driving a car. Driving a car with the tune last illustrated with screenshots will be a far cry from a car with even an OTS Cobb tune.

[mickeyd2005]

Is your tuner okay with sharing the map?

Not that anyone wants to steal anything there.

If you want to try to adjust it, you can post a thread on enginuity and I or someone else will be happy help you fix your boost control. However, the enginuity forums only allow personal maps or maps that the protuner allows to be shared. You also need to read the sticky's on timing and boost control.

BTW, I'm currently changing my style of controlling boost. The 32 bit DBW ecus are super easy to control boost because they basically give you more tables than you really need. Take a look at the limited control that you have with 16 bit DBC ecus. Tuners can still control boost with the fewer tables in the 16 bit roms.

Anyway... my current philosophy is to primarily control boost using the target boost table and max wgdc table. The initial WGDC table and turbo dynamics affect boost but to a much less extent due to the cap placed by the target boost table and max wgdc table. This works well in 3rd, 4th, and 5th gear. No boost spikes and no boost oscillations.

However, after reviewing the Subaru Liberty Tuned by STi rom and reviewing some of the 16 bit boost methodology, I have decided to change the way I tune boost. Now, I remove the max WGDC cap and control boost using initial WGDC table, target boost table, and carefully control turbo dynamics. It's trickier but I can get a LOT more boost in 2nd gear and a tiny bit more spool up in 3rd gear. I've datalogged 4th and 5th gear and haven't spiked yet. Although I did discover that my timing table doesn't like 14 psi at 2400 rpm. :eek: Have to dial that down.

[BigHonu]

14 psi at 2400?

Pretty impressive! I need to go back and re-read that thread.

[mickeyd2005]

Not really. It was in 5th gear. Kind of dangerous actually. I've pulled my boost target down.

I'm still experimenting. When I'm done, I was going to give you some new tables to try out for your stage 1 tune.

BTW, don't do a WOT datalog in 5th gear until you add fuel and pull timing at 2400 rpm and engine load > 2.4 g/rev. It's okay to hit WOT; just don't keep your foot on it for more than a second or two. If you need to pass someone, downshift into 3rd or 4th gear.

[boostsr20]

My brothers MS6 pings from the factory if you mash the gas in 5th or 6th on the highway.

[chenc544]

My brothers MS6 pings from the factory if you mash the gas in 5th or 6th on the highway.

I think that's an undocumented "standard feature" of MS6. :lol:

[Infamous1]

Hmmm... hit 96mph in 3rd so I may not have to shift out of 3rd when I do the 1320 (at 5200ft).
Shift earlier, your times will be better. I generally shift in the 6200-6500 rpm range for the best results.

[Legend]

Shift earlier, your times will be better. I generally shift in the 6200-6500 rpm range for the best results.

I shift at 6000-6200rpm from 1-2 and 2-3, but if I am at 6200rpm in 3rd and ~1 second away from finishing the quarter I think I would be better off letting it redline at 7000rpm vs. shifting into 4th. I'm not sure though...

[Infamous1]

I have made over 30 1/4 mile passes and tried all types of shifting and launching techniques, I trap over what I can run 3rd out to but it still feels a good amount slower trying to hold 3rd out. Just shift early into 4th at like 6000 rpms, you should be around the 1000' ft mark. Fourth is a much stonger gear in the LGT, plus anything over 6K rpms the power curve is dropping.

[Legend]

I have made over 30 1/4 mile passes and tried all types of shifting and launching techniques, I trap over what I can run 3rd out to but it still feels a good amount slower trying to hold 3rd out. Just shift early into 4th at like 6000 rpms, you should be around the 1000' ft mark. Fourth is a much stonger gear in the LGT, plus anything over 6K rpms the power curve is dropping.

I think that's what I'll do then... I really don't like the idea of hitting 7000 and if I hit fuel cut off then I am no doubt better in 4th. You sold me the 6K shift into 4th.

[BigHonu]

Not really. It was in 5th gear. Kind of dangerous actually. I've pulled my boost target down.

I'm still experimenting. When I'm done, I was going to give you some new tables to try out for your stage 1 tune.

BTW, don't do a WOT datalog in 5th gear until you add fuel and pull timing at 2400 rpm and engine load > 2.4 g/rev. It's okay to hit WOT; just don't keep your foot on it for more than a second or two. If you need to pass someone, downshift into 3rd or 4th gear.


Good to know. I know of, and can forsee a few situations where I'm WOT in 5th.