DUDE!! 07 reflash????

[dbrunone]

So this guy on the Cobb forums says he got a Subaru reflash to fix the 3-4k stutter on his 07 GT:

http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36822&page=2

Anyone heard of this?? I tried to call my dealer in charleston but they wouldnt answer the phone and wouldnt call me back when I left a message. Everyone call your dealers!

[Codean]

Um, he made no mention that it was an accessport... could of been an ecutek reflash.

[dr_sharp]

Service dept closed but they will be calling back tomorrow morning.

<Closes eyes and crosses the fingers>

[TravisS]

Um, he made no mention that it was an accessport... could of been an ecutek reflash.

And the OP made no mention of accessport either.
Nor ecutek.
Nor stage 1/2 flashing at all, which is where I'm assuming you were going with that.

This is in regards to a Subaru service flash for curing stutter. Which quite frankly, good luck with that.

[dr_sharp]

I also called 2 dealers in California... one denied the reflash and the other said that they would check into it and call back tomorrow.

[dbrunone]

Yep, thay have the reflash out that specifically addresses the 3-4k studder problem on the 2007 LGT, let me know if your dealer gives you any problems and I will give you the information off of my workorder.sounds like a dealership flash to me

[awalla5150]

dont you loose hp with the dealership flash?

[Codean]

yes, and we all know how well the subaru reflash worked for the STI guys....

Loosing a little HP is better then an engine that knocks.

[TravisS]

Is loose HP as bad as losing HP?
Perhaps loose HP means the ponies can run free. Run free my horsey friends, run free!

[strife1012]

maybe the "reflash" is disconnecting the battery for a few minutes. Then a fun drive.

[hamhock]

maybe the "reflash" is disconnecting the battery for a few minutes. Then a fun drive.

That's what I'm thinking.



Mika

[Ryokosman]

I just got my cars stutter FIXED YES FIXED by my Subaru dealer. I walked in the door said "My car stutters" and the service adviser says "we just got a reflash for that". He brings it up on the programmer and it says something like "car hesitates at 3000-4000 rpm" I say thats what it is and 20 minutes later my car runs 100% better!!! GOGOGO get it done! Car feels so much faster and smoother now!

+1 billion to Adventure Subaru in Fayetteville, AR. They sure know how to take care of a good customer!

[hamhock]

Holy crap. I would have considered this fix rumor, but coming from you Eddie, it's good to know that its fixed. If you don't mind, keep us informed of longer term driveability.




Mika

[Long Island Legacy]

I just got my cars stutter FIXED YES FIXED by my Subaru dealer. I walked in the door said "My car stutters" and the service adviser says "we just got a reflash for that". He brings it up on the programmer and it says something like "car hesitates at 3000-4000 rpm" I say thats what it is and 20 minutes later my car runs 100% better!!! GOGOGO get it done! Car feels so much faster and smoother now!

+1 billion to Adventure Subaru in Fayetteville, AR. They sure know how to take care of a good customer!

Is this true? I will be on the phone with my dealer asap when i get this confirmed.

[Ryokosman]

Took pic down.... Trying to conserve my bandwidth...

[BigT]

yes, and we all know how well the subaru reflash worked for the STI guys....

Loosing a little HP is better then an engine that knocks.

I don't know how it worked for the STI guys... can you elaborate?

[awalla5150]

+1....

[Codean]

With the 2007 STI reflash most of the owners had the issue come back after a few days to a week of driving. The Subaru flash was still too lean in the problem area.

However, some owners found that most of the issue went away. Fuel additives and quality in different regions might have some effect on why this is.
I hope that the legacy Subaru flash fix is better then what it was for the STI guys. The easy way to find out is the get the flash, take the car to the dyno and post up the results. I’m betting that its still lean up to 4000 rpm because there is only so much they can do without blowing the LEV2 status.

[Ryokosman]

Lean or not. As long as its smooth and doesn't knock I'm fine with it. I really don't care if its leaving power on the table. I put around 100 miles on it today after the reflash. Seems consistantly better but I'll post a update on it in about a week.

[JABBER]

several people have had there ECU's send back for reflashes

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16742

[Long Island Legacy]

Jsut made myself a service appt for next week. Im getting my ECM Reflashed!! YES!

[dbrunone]

several people have had there ECU's send back for reflashes

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16742

That was for 2005's...2007's have a different ecu and slightly different stutter problem.

[JABBER]

That's for all years, 05-08.

[dr_sharp]

I'm amazed at some people's inability to read.

How many times must it be repeated? 07+ studder is different than 05-06. Even if the symptoms are the same there is no current flash available for 07+... unless of course the gentleman at Cobb forums speaks the truth.

Please read harder.

[TravisS]

I'm amazed at some people's inability to read.

How many times must it be repeated? 07+ studder is different than 05-06. Even if the symptoms are the same there is no current flash available for 07+... unless of course the gentleman at Cobb forums speaks the truth.

Please read harder.

So Ryosoman's flash to his '08 LGT (first page, last post) doesn't count?

[Ryokosman]

I'm amazed at some people's inability to read.

Please read harder.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1349681&postcount=15

[dr_sharp]

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1349681&postcount=15
:lol::lol::lol:
Ok I may or may not have been intoxicated during that last post.

Point is that this reflash just came out and so many people seem to think that 05-08 all have the same reflash.

[Ryokosman]

:lol::lol::lol:
Ok I may or may not have been intoxicated during that last post.


No excuse. I was hungover in my reply. :) 5am Saturday morning = dehydrated and headache

[dbrunone]

so i called 2 dealers and they both say theres no reflash available for my 07 spec b. wtf??

[Ryokosman]

so i called 2 dealers and they both say theres no reflash available for my 07 spec b. wtf??

Maybe its for 08's only????

[dr_sharp]

Maybe its for 08's only????
I would cry.

[Carter]

HAHA, that invoice is a riot, "Mileage in 250 Mileage out 250." Well at 250 miles the ECU is still learning and I would say all the dealer did was unplug the battery and plug it back in. I bet they were in and out in under 5 minutes. This is of no use to anyone.

[Ryokosman]

HAHA, that invoice is a riot, "Mileage in 250 Mileage out 250." Well at 250 miles the ECU is still learning and I would say all the dealer did was unplug the battery and plug it back in. I bet they were in and out in under 5 minutes. This is of no use to anyone.

LOL Maybe if I wasn't standing there in the bay talking to the tech while he was flashing the car I might think so to.

[Carter]

I'm not trying to be a downer or anything, but how do you know they didnt just "reflash" it with the same version...Because I have an 08 too and SOA and my dealer'S say there is no update.

[Ryokosman]

Its not my fault your dealers suck. I read the display on the programmer thingie. It listed the update and the problem on the screen. I watched it go thru the flash. They told me to let it idle a bit then go romp on it (lol they know I drive hard) to get the computer to learn a bit. I've put 200 more miles on it since then. Car runs SOOO much better.

[hamhock]

Its not my fault your dealers suck. I read the display on the programmer thingie. It listed the update and the problem on the screen. I watched it go thru the flash. They told me to let it idle a bit then go romp on it (lol they know I drive hard) to get the computer to learn a bit. I've put 200 more miles on it since then. Car runs SOOO much better.

What's messed up is that some dealers get their flash before others do. You'd figure that every dealer in the network gets the flash the same day. There's been some instances where dealer A gets a flash or some kind of fix a week or two ahead of dealer B. I don't know why.

I lol'd at the bold. :lol:



Mika

[Long Island Legacy]

I hope my dealer has the reflash when i bring it in on Friday. I dont want to be the fool asking for something they have no idea about.

[Carter]

ok, so the dealers suck, I might be able to agree with that. But what about SOA?? They know nothing of a reflash when you contact them.....hmmm, maybe they get their information last.

[mickeyd2005]

It was released in May 2007 for the 2007-2008 LGT.

http://forums.openecu.org/viewtopic.php?p=15402#15402

[Ryokosman]

Finally someone else who knows theres a update available. Jesus. Its been out that long? I only got my car like 3 weeks ago and got it fixed within 2 weeks of ownership. You guys have had your cars how long and couldn't figure it out yet? WTF? Your dealers really do suck balls.

[Long Island Legacy]

Finally someone else who knows theres a update available. Jesus. Its been out that long? I only got my car like 3 weeks ago and got it fixed within 2 weeks of ownership. You guys have had your cars how long and couldn't figure it out yet? WTF? Your dealers really do suck balls.


lol well at least i see some light here.

[Diggs753]

Well Casey Subaru/VW/Buick/Mahindra or whatever else they are selling.I took it in about 4-5 months ago for same issue ,plus left door speaker rattle and HVAC fluctuation.Odometer the same ,seat in the same position.All NPF,NPF,NPF.Operator errors yadda yadda.I see guys to the same thing all day long at my Shop w/o even looking for a TSB.Only positive experience I've had is from RK in Norfolk.Any software Reflash# or TSB # So I can speed things up with the "booger-eaters"at Casey and prove there is a Reflash?

[Carter]

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/home.cfm

Find it please...

[CapnJack]

I spoke with my dealer about 3 weeks ago and asked him to investigate this problem. About the same time, a couple of his Subaru Techs went to class for 08 training. He asked them about it when they got back and they said in their training, the "instructor" spoke of the reflash for the STI and LGT. If I understood him correctly, they brought back the reflash program with them from class.
Could it be the dealers you spoke to haven't sent the techs to update training yet and that's why they don't have the reflash yet?

Mine will be in next Friday for the update.

[Long Island Legacy]

I also have that rattle as well. But my main concern for bringing my car in is the stutter.

[Diggs753]

I went to the TSB site I didn't find any TSB's for the engine ,just the one on the Brakes?Also they didn't elaborate on the TSb for the brakes so I have no Idea what it is.When I went to the dealer the Tech seemed more intent on bitching about how little hours he was turning than to actually deal with a customer 15 minutes before his lunch break.The whole time I kept quite that I've been a tech for over 16 years.But on the way out of the door I was reminded to give them a good CSI survey.Oh well.I'm off to put a lightweight crank pulley on the OB.I hope to get something that closely resembles a responsive engine.

[dbrunone]

OK so I called the dealership in AR where Ryokosman got his flash done....they said that the 08 flash came out about a week ago, and the 07 flash came out in May sometime. He said there is no "serial number" or anything for the flash, your dealer has to just look it up on their computer. I called my dealership in Charleston, and he said he hasn't heard of a new flash. Then I told him that the other guy said there was one, and he was like "Oh...well then, come on in!" So I'm going tomorrow to see if I can get this worked out. I'll let you guys know.

[Carter]

Just got off the phone with Subaru tonight. My case has not been closed. My originating dealer had put on the invoice when they gave my car back to me that the case was closed. This whole time I thought that it was indeed closed, but in fact it has gone the total oposite. My case and problem have been elevated to a senior representative at Subaru, slowly working its way up the chain of people. The senior rep is currently discussing my case with the techs at Subaru to find out what is going on with the vehicle and if a real problem really exists. There is currently NO update for the original 2008 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT Limited ECM. I do wonder though if there may be a difference between the GT and the Spec b and that is were the update is. I am now going to call dealers all accross the country to see if anyone has an update. It is almost 7PM EDT so I will work my way slowly towards the west coast.

[Carter]

1 hour later....

Lynwood Motors IL
NO

Burt Subaru CO
NO

Big Valley CA
Bring car for accurate inspection

Carlsen Subaru CA
NO

Fourtyniner Subaru CA
NO

Cypress Mazda Subaru CA
NO

Jensen Motor Center CA
NO

Irvine Subaru
STi - YES
LGT - NO


I think I called enough places. Some people even laughed at me...."on an 08!?!?!?" like I was crazy.

[autotech]

took mine to the dealer today after reading this thread. No bulletins for a reflash. then the tech put it on the computer that goes directly to subaru (there scan tool) and it said there were no reflashes or my vehicle. So i test drove with him, showed him what it was exactly. He then said he was going to call techline and would get back to me...i should know something by tomorow.

[Long Island Legacy]

So whats the deal with the brake TSB because right now i hear a whinning noise at low speeds and at around 40mph as well. and it goes louder when i brake and comer to a stop.

[Gator GT]

So whats the deal with the brake TSB because right now i hear a whinning noise at low speeds and at around 40mph as well. and it goes louder when i brake and comer to a stop.


Not sure exactly, but I'm getting a wheel bearing replaced today (LH FR). Tech took a ride and said while it's not common, he has replaced a few on 06 and 07 and that seems to take care of it. Mine doesn't react like yours....its rotational and is NOT affected by braking or stopping.

Yours might be your pads....mine are starting to squeak...but I can tell its the brakes....no worries, SS lines, pads and fluid are soon ;).

[Han'sGT]

Report back in a 1,000 miles or so. In the past the "studder" was fixed for a while when you load a new map cobb or otherwise. The car will likely relearn the studder.

[dbrunone]

So I just got my reflash....the tech said that it was a new flash that wasn't there when I was in for an oil change about 2 months ago. I watched them do it, so I know they didn't just reset the ecu. They took it for a test drive and he said "dude, this thing drives way better than it did before." So I drive it home....not too bad, stutter is still there, but it is greatly reduced from what it was before. Then I drove it maybe 30 miles....came right back. WTF. Screw you Subaru. Hello AP, DP, and protune.

[Carter]

Tonight I spoke with SOA again, not the senior rep though, she was unavailable today. But the person I spoke with I explained what was going on and what Adventure Subaru did (I also called them today. I have to call back tomorrow and give them my VIN) Then it was like a lightbulb in his head came on. He said Subaru recently released a new program that dealers got that loads on a regular computer and connects to the vehicle via OBD II. The software will automatically update the engine computer if necessary. These updates (if any) would not necessarily be listed on the Subaru Tech site, nor would they necessarily pop up as a TSB. For what ever reason there may not be any written information regarding these updates. The only way to find out is to hook up the vehicle to this system and let it do its thing, thus most dealers wouldnt know about it unless they have done it before. All the dealers I spoke with either looked at TSB's or went to the Subaru Tech site to look for information regarding updates.

I am going to wait for the senior rep to call me tomorrow and see what she says, and then I might head over to my dealer sometime and have them just hook up the computer to the vehicle and see what happens.

[dr_sharp]

lol... they make it sound like magic.

[mdzowner]

ironically enough after reading this thread i did some investigating my self and took my 07 in to the dealership. they took a look and a drive and the service guy said they reset the ecu. now before i tell you the result i would like to say that i was totally skeptical being that more than half of you say there is no fix etc what evr. well after about 45 minute they gave me back my ride and it was smooth as silk, no more studder no more hesitation. i drive about 120 miles round trip a day for work and no relaps yet.
mdzowner

[dr_sharp]

Give it time. Report back in 2 weeks (1000miles) ;)

[Ryokosman]

Meh mines relearned a bit of the stutter back after a few hundred miles, but its still worlds better than before. Just a bit of stutter probably a 10th of what there was b4.

I'm thinking AP Stg 1 whenever they come out. My 05 STi stock had a worse tune than the Spec-B does now. LOL It pinged like it loved it. Oh well I wasn't planning on modding but you know how those things go...

[BigT]

ARe these on AT or MT or both?

[Carter]

I dont think it has anything to do with transmission tbh. I think its clearly an engine problem.

[Carter]

This is interesting....
http://autorepair.about.com/cs/faqs/l/bl583d.htm

[dbrunone]

This is interesting....
http://autorepair.about.com/cs/faqs/l/bl583d.htm

That is talking about a throttle response issue caused by the drive-by-wire system. The problem we are talking about is a "stutter" at 3-4krpm at or near wide open throttle.

[Carter]

i still think it shows either way Subaru doesnt know WTF they are doing.

[Ryokosman]

Well at the least SOA needs to hire new people to write their tunes.

[Carter]

Yeah, no crap :)

I didnt get a call back yet again from SOA, but my rep I speak to is always nice and appologetic. He tells me that they have had a high call volume lately (hopefully all of you people complaining about the hesitation!!!!) Anyway, what she did do today was speak to her manager (again slowly up the chain of people) who contacted my dealer about the issue. No word from the dealer as of tonight. We'll see if they contact me tomorrow. My rep at SOA said he would personally make sure someone calls me tomorrow to atleast give me some sort of update.

[Lothar]

I brought my '07 Spec.B in for the reflash today. I was assured by both the service manager and the mechanic that this reflash is specific to the '07. They entered my VIN into their system, and it showed (in the manager's words) that "there is an update available for my car for hesitation at 3000-4000rpm on acceleration." The work order reads "There is an available reflash. Performed reprogram per SOA with laptop."

As I was driving the car home from the garage, I took a lot of stop-and-go backroads and accelerated hard, trying to reproduce the stutter at that RPM (which I used to notice mostly in 2nd gear). There was once or twice that I thought I felt a single subtle lurch at about that RPM, but it was not an obvious stutter like it was before, and I wonder if I was simply feeling the turbo spooling up.

I'll post back if I notice anything worthy of reporting after it's got more miles on it.

[Touge Tuning]

So is there no like # they can put in the system to bring up the reflash? Seems as though this is really a hit and miss in terms of who has it and who doesnt or doesnt know how to do it.

[dbrunone]

So is there no like # they can put in the system to bring up the reflash? Seems as though this is really a hit and miss in terms of who has it and who doesnt or doesnt know how to do it.

Nope, no number. They just have to look it up in their laptop.

On a side note, I reset my ECU today by disconnecting the battery. The stutter was still there even immediately afterward. Is there something else that can cause this, maybe a vacuum leak or something?

[Lothar]

So is there no like # they can put in the system to bring up the reflash? Seems as though this is really a hit and miss in terms of who has it and who doesnt or doesnt know how to do it.

The only number I see on my invoice is:

J# 1 04SUZZMISC2
Misc. Engine Repair2 Hours: 0.60

I get the impression that the key piece of info for them to search for the ECU update is the part about "3000-4000 RPM."

[Touge Tuning]

Gonna see if one the local dealerships here in Toronto knows anything about this reflash.

[Long Island Legacy]

Well me car is at Metric Right now for the stutter and wheel bearing noise. I hope i don't get back there later and they say could not duplicate the problem.

[Long Island Legacy]

Dealer said there is no reflash. They said they tried to hook the car up to the computer but it said failed. And i said because of the CANbus ecu and there like uhh whatever. Sounded like they had no idea what they were talking about.

[stewartg]

So does anyone here have an actual case #. not TSB or techline, but a SOA case # that can be referenced?

The guys that have been flashed, what dealers did the flash?

[Long Island Legacy]

Yea i want to see a TSB or something pertainign to the reflash. The IDIOTS at the dealer i went to said"they hooked it up to the computer but it said not comaptible and that theres no reflash" Idiots its not compatible because its a CAN bus ecu. the dealer said that has nothing to do with it but i beg to differ ami right?

[stewartg]

I went to the dealer today and got an appt scheduled for Tuesday to have the car inspected. The service rider I talked to knew of the flash for the 07 STI and of a flash for the Legacy but he wasn't certain which years or models were affected (he did know of the hesitation issue). I told him he would not find a TSB or anything on the tech line, but that rumor is that a fix is available and other customers have had the flash.

I have an open SOA case #, the work order from ryokosman, shortbus' dyno chart (http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=779&d=1187356446), info from jon [ct] pertaining to the flashes availability (http://forums.openecu.org/viewtopic.php?p=15402#15402), and my stutter petition (http://www.kristys.net/stewart/stutter/) with 40 entries. I also have another car on order that I am supposed to take delivery of on the same day.

I think with all of that, if there is a flash available, I will not be leaving the dealer Tuesday without it.

[Gator GT]

I had my car in for service on Wednesday at Manchester Subaru and while they said there was a reflash for such a studder, I'm pretty sure I'm being haunted by it again 4 days later.

I'll see what it does on my commute tomorrow, but it seems to have come up again today. There is no real "part number" for the reflash on my order.

[easton]

Had my car reflashed today. Night and day difference. No more jerky behavior, and rev matching is much improved. I've never been able to shift my car smoothly in 13,000 miles until today. If you are in Portland, go see Spencer at Wentworth, he's really great.

[stewartg]

Thanks easton. I'm hoping to have this done tomorrow at Carr.

[vader1]

Now I am not sure this will work because on my car, it will stutter even after you reset the ECU but bear with me.......

I own an S2000, and they will always put out slightly more power after a reset because the computer goes through the learning and pulls out some timing. Some of the S2000 guys have modified the wiring harness to the ecu so instead of providing a constant source of power, they changed the "hot" wire to be switched only. So every time they shut off the car, the ecu is reset and is always providing the most power in stock form.

I would not recommend this for non-stock cars, but when the car goes out of warranty, if resetting the ecu fixes the stutter, it may be an option for some. Although a better option would be for subaru to figure it out and fix it.

My problem is that the car will run fine about 5% of the time. And coincidently, it has run just fine both times I went for a ride with the tech. Fortunately for me, the techs kept it overnight only to have the problem show itself to them in the morning.

[vader1]

I still think there will be no real fix without a class action by the way..........

[Ryokosman]

LOL Dealer called earlier asking if I had put something saying they had fixed my car online. Said SOA even called asking them what was up. Adventure Subaru wants to know why no one else knows how to do their job???

[Carter]

What did you tell them?

[stewartg]

LOL Dealer called earlier asking if I had put something saying they had fixed my car online. Said SOA even called asking them what was up. Adventure Subaru wants to know why no one else knows how to do their job???
I never referenced you, I actually forgot all of my documentation in the other car. But my dealer was aware of the flash and did it without arguing. I did have to take the tech on a ride along and explain to him that I knew a flash was available to remedy it, he said there sure is, lets go back to the dealer now and fix it. The service rider wanted to keep the car all day to diagnose it, but I told them I was only there for a ride along and possibly a flash.








... but the flash didn't work (http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1372210&postcount=62).

[Carter]

I never referenced you, I actually forgot all of my documentation in the other car. But my dealer was aware of the flash and did it without arguing. I did have to take the tech on a ride along and explain to him that I knew a flash was available to remedy it, he said there sure is, lets go back to the dealer now and fix it.








... but the flash didn't work.


More detail please.... What do you mean the flash didnt work? Did the ECU not take it (i.e. wrong vehicle) or did it just not change anything? What did the dealer say after that?

[Carter]

Alright, I see you edited your post. Thanks. :)

[Ryokosman]

What did you tell them?
We LOL'd together that there are so many dealers who don't know what their doing. They kinda figured it out since I'm the only guy who they've flashed. :lol:

[Ryokosman]

I never referenced you, I actually forgot all of my documentation in the other car. But my dealer was aware of the flash and did it without arguing. I did have to take the tech on a ride along and explain to him that I knew a flash was available to remedy it, he said there sure is, lets go back to the dealer now and fix it. The service rider wanted to keep the car all day to diagnose it, but I told them I was only there for a ride along and possibly a flash.


I don't care if I'm referenced. Sorry the fix didn't work as well for you as it did me. Good thing you got it done tho. Never know if you don't try.

[dbrunone]

Update on my flash: power is about the same, stutter is reduced by about 50%, but is not gone. Thats really it.

[Gator GT]

Yeah, I'm starting to feel it come back. argh.

[easton]

I never referenced you, I actually forgot all of my documentation in the other car. But my dealer was aware of the flash and did it without arguing. I did have to take the tech on a ride along and explain to him that I knew a flash was available to remedy it, he said there sure is, lets go back to the dealer now and fix it. The service rider wanted to keep the car all day to diagnose it, but I told them I was only there for a ride along and possibly a flash.








... but the flash didn't work (http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1372210&postcount=62).

Stewart, assuming that you got flashed today, you knew immediately that the flash didn't work. I'm 100 miles into mine and it is still rock steady. It is a completely transformed car. I hope that this new found smoothness doesn't disappear by the end of the tank (+/- 150 more miles). I'll let you know. Maybe you should go see Spencer?

[stewartg]

Stewart, assuming that you got flashed today, you knew immediately that the flash didn't work. I'm 100 miles into mine and it is still rock steady. It is a completely transformed car. I hope that this new found smoothness doesn't disappear by the end of the tank (+/- 150 more miles). I'll let you know. Maybe you should go see Spencer?
Easton, I'm pretty sure that the flash is to a revised firmware that would be the same version across any dealer as long as they have received the update. I think my car is closer to that of dbrunone where the stutter may be reduced but not gone. I only did one pull and it was not bad, but definitely not eliminated. CARR is about 4 blocks from my office and the streets here arehighly patrolled, so I couldn't test it any more than that. How many times have you seen photo radar vans or patrol cars when visiting AVAD?

I'm not really enjoying this new Impreza much, so I think I will take my car out for lunch today and test it a bit more. If it is still bad, or comes back I will probably call spencer @ wentworth. Is he a service rider or service manager? Last name?

[Carter]

Why in the heck did you buy an Impreza?!?!

[easton]

Yeah, can't count how many people I've seen pulled over on western or allen.

Spencer is a Service Writer, I'm not sure of his last name.

[bms231]

called my dealer. i said to the guy listen, there is an update it is not on tech net and no tsb was issued but if you plug in your laptop b/c it is a can bus it will find an update. he said ok and no cost and i am scheduled tomorrow.

08 lgt.

[hamhock]

Who the eff started calling people service riders? As in they are riding a horse. It's service WRITER. Or even service ADVISOR. /rant



Mika

[mdzowner]

just got a call from my dealership, they recieved the updated program to fix the studder. will be taking it on tuesday. so yes it does exist.
mdzowner

[stewartg]

Who the eff started calling people service riders? As in they are riding a horse. It's service WRITER. Or even service ADVISOR. /rant



Mika
I used to work in service at Lexus and that is when I started hearing the term, but actually never had seen it written out. To me 'rider' made no sense, but thats what I thought I had heard. Thanks Easton, for kindly correcting me.

[stewartg]

Why in the heck did you buy an Impreza?!?!
We traded in our 2004 Hyundai Accent, I couldn't stand having two dark cars and putting all the miles on my car. Needed to be a auto, and I didn't want to get her a WRX with 250hp directly after the slow Accent. She loves the car and is very excited. I think it is a fine upgrade from the Accent, but not $16k better. It has nothing on our wish list (power seats, heated seats, sunroof, 6-disc). I wanted to get a 08 Legacy 2.5i Limited, but she couldn't see her blind spots in that car and she fell in love with the way the Impreza drove in about 0.1 seconds. Thus ordered a Spark Silver 2008 Impreza 2.5i Auto Sedan with Premium Pkg and Navigation Pkg and picked it up this Monday.

Anyhow, its off topic in this thread, I had a whole writeup about in it general that got passed right up. I'll see if I can find a link and update the thread (post-purchase) later.

[vader1]

LOL Dealer called earlier asking if I had put something saying they had fixed my car online. Said SOA even called asking them what was up. Adventure Subaru wants to know why no one else knows how to do their job???


Hey Ryokosman,

I just went for ride with the service manager at my dealer to demonstrate the stutter. We also took a new one off the lot for comaprison and it has the stutter too. He looked online for May reflashes and did not find the correct one. Do think that your dealer would give you the correct PAK file # to post so we can bring that to our dealers?

I sure hope yours is still running ok. It would be nice to know there is a fix. I still question it though that it is perhaps not the ecu, because I can't figure out why out of a group of four 07's I have driven with the same stock map, 3 were perfect and mine sucks.

[rudy]

Yes, any hard facts like the file name/number, etc. would be great. I'm going in for an oil change on the 6th of October and would like to get a reflash done then.

[stewartg]

My Impreza is in service right now (just bought it Monday and the radio doesn't work right), when I pick it up I will ask my service advisor for any information about the flash to pass on to you guys. We can then verify that it IS the same map, since mine still has a slight stutter.

[Ryokosman]

Hey Ryokosman,
Do think that your dealer would give you the correct PAK file # to post so we can bring that to our dealers?

Why don't you call them???

[stewartg]

Well, I got my car back but they couldn't fix the stereo. I asked about the reflash and they didn't put it in their notes, but the service advisor said he would talk to the tech when he gets back from lunch and let me know.

[easton]

I'm sorry you live in Beaverton.

[bms231]

Got my 08GT flashed today. Was done at Ganely Subaru East in Ohio. Tech plugged in the laptop and the comp was updated.


initial impressions..... DISAPPOINTED. i have never been through an ecu reset on the scooby so this may be part of it but my throttle response sucks. the pedal is mush. i got in the car, started it up, started to go and almost stalled it. i had to push the gas a sold 1/2" further than i used to. even in sport mode where if i barely touched the gas the rpms would spike... now i have to push the gas in to get any response. granted it is a lil smoother than tap and 1500rpm, but still... mushy. shifting was way different feeling because of it.


is this just b/c the ecu is learning? other than that, i put it in second and S# and went from 1500rpm up to 4K really hard.... no stutter. nice and smooth.

[Carter]

So now it seems more people are finding an ECU update. Does it seem like Subaru decreased engine power to compensate? How about boost levels?

[stewartg]

I'm sorry you live in Beaverton.WTF do you mean by that? Wentworth is only 9 miles. Carr, Royal Moore and Wentworth are all relatively close.

[easton]

:) I've lived in the PDX area my entire life. I went to Beaverton high school, my first house was right by washington square, and once lived at Murrayhill. I can't imagine dealing with the driving situation there on a daily basis. I moved downtown a couple of years ago and couldn't be happier.

[easton]

Got my 08GT flashed today. Was done at Ganely Subaru East in Ohio. Tech plugged in the laptop and the comp was updated.


initial impressions..... DISAPPOINTED. i have never been through an ecu reset on the scooby so this may be part of it but my throttle response sucks. the pedal is mush. i got in the car, started it up, started to go and almost stalled it. i had to push the gas a sold 1/2" further than i used to. even in sport mode where if i barely touched the gas the rpms would spike... now i have to push the gas in to get any response. granted it is a lil smoother than tap and 1500rpm, but still... mushy. shifting was way different feeling because of it.


is this just b/c the ecu is learning? other than that, i put it in second and S# and went from 1500rpm up to 4K really hard.... no stutter. nice and smooth.


Dude,

The original flash had the drive by wire set as hyper sensitive, what you are feeling now is that the input by your right foot now more accurately reflects that of a car with a traditional accelerator cable. I noticed the same thing, but you will get used to it quickly. It makes it much more pleasant for others in the car. I can't believe how much easier the car is to shift and drive smoothly now.

[bms231]

yea i hope it is going to be easier to shift now... cause literally i could not get a single shift smooth and i thought it was me b/c this is my first manual car. i would always get within a needle width of the right rpm but still get a very minor jerk. i was bugging out. now i have to re-learn a bit but we will see. the biggest PITA in S# i found was if you are on a hill and you barely touch the gas, you were at 1500rpm screwing up the clutch and if u came up too fast.... stall.

[han]

So... after the ECU reflash, the throttle is more "touchier" in S#?

[Richard B.]

yea i hope it is going to be easier to shift now... cause literally i could not get a single shift smooth and i thought it was me b/c this is my first manual car. i would always get within a needle width of the right rpm but still get a very minor jerk. i was bugging out. now i have to re-learn a bit but we will see. the biggest PITA in S# i found was if you are on a hill and you barely touch the gas, you were at 1500rpm screwing up the clutch and if u came up too fast.... stall.



uhhh...that is what S was for. i like the sensitivity on S# compared to S and I. S sounds like it is exactly all you needed to turn over to.

from the sounds of it, it was decreased to be closer to S? does that make sense?

[Richard B.]

So... after the ECU reflash, the throttle is more "touchier" in S#?


i dont see how it can get more "touchier" than stock.

[bms231]

So... after the ECU reflash, the throttle is more "touchier" in S#?

absolutely not. it is more mushier. like press..... um throttle where are u? ooooo there you 1/2 further down than where you were before. i am going to toy around w/ it more today b/c i only drove it for a grand 10 minutes after i got it back.

[bms231]

ok so after driving more this morning on my typical drive to work..... observations

1. i like
2. i find myself hitting 1500 rpm before going into first. i have to find the right amount of throttle again
3. the rpms drop off much faster which makes shifting quicker and smoother.


overally, i like this change. i have to open her up but the one time i did in S# in 2nd to 5K it was smooth as glass.

[Zed 2.0]

3. the rpms drop off much faster which makes shifting quicker and smoother.


You mean after you lift throttle?
The software can't affect this--that's primarily a flywheel weight issue. :confused:

[stewartg]

You mean after you lift throttle?
The software can't affect this--that's primarily a flywheel weight issue. :confused:
why would you want the rpms to drop quickly? if i granny shift its not very smooth. the only way to make a smooth shift (6mt atleast) is to ride the clutch.

[easton]

You mean after you lift throttle?
The software can't affect this--that's primarily a flywheel weight issue. :confused:

With a typical cable based throttle setup this is sort of true. With our drive-by-wire system it is more software based, and results in rough shifting because it holds rpms. With the new flash, it is significantly smoother.

[bms231]

^^^ what he said. w/ the electronic throttle, subaru can most certainly and most certainly does control the rate of closure. rpms deifnitely drop faster and it is nicer. i notice it most from 1st to 2nd. i could never get into second smooth. sometimes if i gased up 1st too much getting into second meant the guy behind me would have to wait as i slowed down while the rpms dropped.

[Carter]

I would still like to know some sort of version number or something...

[Zed 2.0]

Well, spoke to one dealer who denied they had any reflash for the 2008s. The tech also said they would not reflash any vehicle without driving the vehicle and confirming that it was out of spec.

Another dealer confirmed the reflash for the 2007s, but said it was not listed for the 2008.

[bms231]

^^ tell that dealer to call my dealer. or hell, give me their number, i will call them and tell ur dealer that they are morons.

[Carter]

^^ tell that dealer to call my dealer. or hell, give me their number, i will call them and tell ur dealer that they are morons.
Your dealer would be whom??

[bms231]

Ganley Subaru East

28840 Euclid Ave
Wickliffe , OH 44092
440-585-1000







i would still like to call Zed 2.0's dealer and bitch them out :)

[Zed 2.0]

Mid-City Subaru, Chicago. Feel free to tell them what's up--it sounded like they didn't have any idea about it.

[the_3d_man]

I went to my dealership's service manager today and had him search for a reflash to fix the stutter. (by the way I couldn't get it to stutter once when I was driving with him. Isn't it always like that) They have the system where they hook the car up to a laptop and it scans your ECU, and is connected to Subaru to search for updates. It found nothing, but I told the guy that he had to search manually for it. He did find an update for Cali-FED spec legacys and the description specifically said "Fix for 3000-4000 RPM hesitation". He actually loaded that on my car, (even though I wasn't sure I wanted CALI spec maps on my car). He assured me that the Cali-spec map is better anyway lol. I don't buy that. I think it will still stutter, but we'll see. I'm really more interested in getting the throttle to stop delaying so long when trying to take off from a stop. Just holding breath for the AP. Hopefully that fixes this once and for all, and gives me a little more responsiveness. (if it ever comes out)

[CapnJack]

Had my car in for an oil change today and also the re-flash. Unfortunately the service guy and tech were gone when I picked up the car so I couldn't pick their brain on it. The invoice said something interesting. What are your thoughts?

"Engine surge upon accel"
"Tech found ECM lost programming Tech Reprogrammed"
"PCM Relearned OK now"

The only other numbers listed were A455281 and UEC43 T71 7

The stutter is still there, but it is not nearly as bad as it was. Mine was to the point the car would jerk pretty violently while accelerating. Let's see if it stays this way...

[bms231]

on my sheet it says:

455281 MFI ADBII ECM R&R 203 WSMR


and then below it:

FC: 455281*.7*UEC43

[Carter]

I quickly looked at the build date on my car and it is April, so if an update came out in May, I didnt get it...

[Touge Tuning]

455281*.7*UEC43 so this seems to be the common thing between both of your invoices

[Carter]

I dont think they would have the exact same thing anyway. One is an 07 other is an 08.

[what?]

Everyone needs to call Subaru, I think the number is 1-800-subaru3, and tell them how much the dealerships SUCK! Or they already know, and just act like they dont. Everytime I have called them I get, "oh we havent heard of this problem" or "we havent had any complaints about that dealership". I am getting tired of this. I will never own another Subaru.

[bms231]

subaru knows their dealers suck. in my cause, my subaru dealer added krex which soa said negatively affected my factory warranty. soa is going to do nothing about it.

[Carter]

subaru knows their dealers suck. in my cause, my subaru dealer added krex which soa said negatively affected my factory warranty. soa is going to do nothing about it.
Im sorry, but what is krex?:confused:

[Ryokosman]

Im sorry, but what is krex?:confused:

An oil additive. :spin:

[Lothar]

Well, here I am a little over a week and 500 miles after I had my reflash done. I just came home from a several-day-long roadtrip that gave me lots of opportunities to test the new mapping, and all I can say is... the stutter is still there.

Pre-reflash, I was noticing the stutter primarily in 2nd gear, with throttle wide open, accelerating between 3000-4000rpm. Post-reflash, I seem to be seeing it mainly in 3rd and 4th gear (2nd is fairly smooth), but the stutter is just as pronounced. It's really quite annoying, and the reflash didn't improve things one bit.

Time for Cobb, I think.

[deeslk]

Would some one be able to give me a couple test senarios for my 08 GT 5EAT to see if I have the studder. I have about 4K on my 08 and I dont think I have it.

Thanks

[vader1]

Why don't you call them???


I called them once, but was told they were busy and to try back later. I don't know how willing they will be to track down a file number if I am not a customer but we will see.

My dealer finally found a pak file for an 08 Legacy, but it will not load to an 07 ecu. That pisses me off because I am not aware they changed anything in the engine so if there was a problem with 08's stuttering at 3-4000 rpm, you would think they might have the same issue with 07's. BUt apparently they pay no attention to people with this problem since stutter seems to have been an issue since 05.

[cannis]

subscribe

[Neurodancer]

I should be picking up my ordered OBP Legacy GT this weekend. Do you think the ECU will be up to date or should I ask the service dept. to check for this reflash?

[vader1]

Reflash PAK file for 08 (And I was told this file came out Sept 10) is


wait for it........


wait for it.......


22611 AM96B

if that works, your welcome. I'll trade you for an 07 reflash.

[Carter]

Reflash PAK file for 08 (And I was told this file came out Sept 10) is


wait for it........


wait for it.......


22611 AM96B

if that works, your welcome. I'll trade you for an 07 reflash.


Just on a really stupid side note, your post numer here and on the other thread is #142. Interesting...:spin:

[Carter]

Also I just got off the phone with SOA asking them about that PAK file # you have provided. I hope they dont read this, and really no offense to them. But they are STUPID. The rep I spoke with didnt even know what I meant by "PAK file" or "ECU update" and "ECU reflash". They dont even know what an update is, let alone if an update is available. At that point I got a little fresh and said to him "Am I using the wrong terminalogy or what?!" None of the reps I have spoken to know of any updates, problems, recalls, TSB's. Not a damn thing. It kind of pisses me off. And all the senior reps I know of are women (not that it matters, kind of) who, the one I talked to, knew nothing. I could almost just picture her face with a blank stare when I spoke to her last week. The regular reps all have told me that only the senior reps have access to the "technical" information. So why even bother calling them if all they can tell you is "All our vehicles come standard with symetrical AWD!!" I want answers, I want technical information, I want to know what is wrong with my car, I want to know why nothing is being done about it, I want to know why I am not being notified by SOA when an update is available, I want to know why no one calls me back, I want to know why nobody at SOA knows anything, I want to know why the dealer blows me off. And most of all I want to know how the heck Subaru is even in business here in the US if everyone who works there seems to know absoloutly nothing! I told the dealer I was coming in next wednesday and I want them to hook up their computer.

[rs6er]

I described the problem to the service manager at my dealer. He called Subaru and the person he spoke to was unaware of the issue but promised to look into it. They got back to him with the information that they had a reflash for just what he (I) described, and they gave me the reflash. I drove the car home today, and so far so good.

[Carter]

I hope the 08 reflash doesnt decrease HP/TQ ratings...

[dr_sharp]

I hope Brittney Spears is still a virgin.

Next to impossible :(

[jvcjbl]

I work for Avondale Subaru here in Avondale, AZ.... our lead tech is a personal friend of mine and a avid subaru modder. He is always looking for "known" issues and stuff like that... I will talk to him tomorrow and see what he says... I just got our one and only 2008 Spec.B about 3 days ago and noticed it has the choppiest acceleration I have ever seen for a turbo car. I will keep you all informed with what he says

[Carter]

I work for Avondale Subaru here in Avondale, AZ.... our lead tech is a personal friend of mine and a avid subaru modder. He is always looking for "known" issues and stuff like that... I will talk to him tomorrow and see what he says... I just got our one and only 2008 Spec.B about 3 days ago and noticed it has the choppiest acceleration I have ever seen for a turbo car. I will keep you all informed with what he says
That would be really awesome. Thank you!:)

[subiedad51]

Anybody have their 07 reflashed in NJ? I couldn't find in my search. If so, could you tell me where as my dealer in Mount Olive is totally clueless.

[vader1]

I work for Avondale Subaru here in Avondale, AZ.... our lead tech is a personal friend of mine and a avid subaru modder. He is always looking for "known" issues and stuff like that... I will talk to him tomorrow and see what he says... I just got our one and only 2008 Spec.B about 3 days ago and noticed it has the choppiest acceleration I have ever seen for a turbo car. I will keep you all informed with what he says


07's too pretty please!!!

[vader1]

I hope the 08 reflash doesnt decrease HP/TQ ratings...


Hard to say, but if the problem is in the 3-4000 rpm range then peak numbers would most likely stay the same, but you could lose some in the 3-4000 range.

Would I take a few less HP in the 3-4000 range to fix a car that falls on its face in that range anyway, bucks like a bronco, and accelerates like crap? YES. Abso-freaking-lutely.

I'd love the car if it ran right, but I am seriously considering lemon-lawing mine.

Here's my choice: $30K for a car that was supposed to be fun but runs like sh*t, or add a dohickey for $700 more that voids my warranty. OR get my $30k back.

[rs6er]

Not NJ. But close. I had mine done at Bill Kolb in Orangeburg NY. Here's what my work order said:
"Customer states check for hesitation at between 2500 and 4000 RPM. Check for possible reflash.
Tech found TSB reflash on laptop and performed computer reflash,
Reflash computer for hesitation concern."

Speak to Greg in the service department. He will know what you are talking about.

[jvcjbl]

Talked to my service writer this morning as I am still waiting to go into work.. he said he knows of no reflash but will connect to computer for me to find out... keep in mind I still haven't talked to my tech... but either way the service writer is a legacy driver and is very interested as well... I will keep you all posted

[stewartg]

...

[jvcjbl]

^^^^^ Wtf?!?!

[Zed 2.0]

:icon_arro

:whore:

[rudy]

???? - Did the IRS at least leave you with the pak # for the 07's? :)

[Carter]

???? - Did the IRS at least leave you with the pak # for the 07's? :)
HAHA, sorry, its not funny, but that comment was funny.:lol:

[Carter]

Hard to say, but if the problem is in the 3-4000 rpm range then peak numbers would most likely stay the same, but you could lose some in the 3-4000 range.

Would I take a few less HP in the 3-4000 range to fix a car that falls on its face in that range anyway, bucks like a bronco, and accelerates like crap? YES. Abso-freaking-lutely.

I'd love the car if it ran right, but I am seriously considering lemon-lawing mine.

Here's my choice: $30K for a car that was supposed to be fun but runs like sh*t, or add a dohickey for $700 more that voids my warranty. OR get my $30k back.
What state do you live in? What is the lemon law there??
Here is the Maine Law


IS MY VEHICLE COVERED UNDER THE LEMON LAW

You may apply for Lemon Law Arbitration if your vehicle is seriously defective before any of the following Lemon Law limits have been reached:



1.three (3) years from the date your vehicle was originally sold,
or
2.the end of the manufacturer express warranty term.


The defect you are complaining about must occur before the vehicle has 18,000 miles on it. The Lemon Law can apply to new vehicles, used vehicles (if still within the Lemon Law limits), motorcycles and motor homes.

[Carter]

I'm now thinking about how the senior reps dont like calling me back, after I have requested it 4 times, I ended up calling and once they were available, and not on vacation. I am waiting again to hear back about that Pak #. If I dont get a call by the end of business today, I think i will call and open up the lemon law as an option. That might get someones attention.

[SPECB08]

I had my reflash done today at Cherry Hill Subaru (two blocks from SOA HQ). Took 10 minutes - they did no pretest, just plugged it in.

[stewartg]

Oh crap! Wrong thread..... hahaha. That was supposed to go in the "is income tax a fraud" thread. Sorry, no PAK numbers.

[spicytuna]

I'm now thinking about how the senior reps dont like calling me back, after I have requested it 4 times, I ended up calling and once they were available, and not on vacation. I am waiting again to hear back about that Pak #. If I dont get a call by the end of business today, I think i will call and open up the lemon law as an option. That might get someones attention.

That is really unprofessional of them.

Why don't you ask them who their manager is and escalate it up the line? They may not know the answers in regards to the hesitation but I'm sure they can tell you who their manager is.

I did this once with a branch of a bank I was dealing with. Kept on escalating until I got their vice president on the phone. :lol:

[Carter]

That is really unprofessional of them.

Why don't you ask them who their manager is and escalate it up the line? They may not know the answers in regards to the hesitation but I'm sure they can tell you who their manager is.

I did this once with a branch of a bank I was dealing with. Kept on escalating until I got their vice president on the phone. :lol:


If I recall correctly when I called earlier last month, I thought the reps said that the senior reps were the highest (when you call 1-800-SOA SUCKS ASS) But I am on hold right now waiting for a rep to pick up. I am going to ask whats going on and why no one has called me back. And if I dont like the answer I am going to mention "LEMON" and ask about higher ups.

I know that the regional rep for Maine was aware of my issue, and was in contact with the dealership when my car first went in for this problem, but as far as SOA was concerned my car is operating normally. I dont think it is. Especially if there is a flash update. 2 since I've had my car (going by the info I found here, 1 in May, and one on Sept 10th) My car was manufactured 04/07.

[rmcferon]

Just had a reflash done today. Work order says:

Checked programming. OLD- 226UAM96A

Installed new programming. NEW- 226UAM96B

We'll see what happens in a week or so.

[Carter]

Convieniently the senior rep and manager for New England are unavailable. The senior rep was out yesterday and today. I told the guy I spoke with that I need a call back tomorrow, no excuses. Tomorrow they have short hours, shorter than their normal hours for a friday (must be nice) 10:30-3:00. I did mention that if this doesnt get resolved soon or if no one calls me back just to let me know the status I will be taking the steps to lemon the vehicle. (likely it will never happen). Then he said someone will definately call me back. The only thing I want right now is verification that there is an update and that the dealer will be able to have it on hand when I go out there Wednesday night. They are staying specially for me.

[Carter]

Just had a reflash done today. Work order says:

Checked programming. OLD- 226UAM96A

Installed new programming. NEW- 226UAM96B

We'll see what happens in a week or so.


Can you tell me the manufacture date of your vehicle (its on the drivers door, silver sticker) and when you bought it? :)

[dr_sharp]

Was flashed today at North Park Subaru.

No comment on results, atm.

[rmcferon]

Can you tell me the manufacture date of your vehicle (its on the drivers door, silver sticker) and when you bought it? :)

manufacture date = 06/07

purchase date = 07/13/07

[dr_sharp]

Also forgot to mention that the service technician mentioned that this flash is only for spec.Bs. I laughed at him, asked him if he was serious and the conversation ended there.

All this means is that spec.Bs are the guinea pigs. :(

I will say that after 50 miles or so there is definitely no loss in power after the flash... which surprises me alot.

[SPECB08]

Also forgot to mention that the service technician mentioned that this flash is only for spec.Bs. I laughed at him, asked him if he was serious and the conversation ended there.

I got the reflash yesterday and was also told it was not for the lgt but only for the spec.b - as they said that the ecu programming is different

[Carter]

I thought the only "real difference was the 6 speed and the Bilstien shocks...

[SPECB08]

I thought the only "real difference was the 6 speed and the Bilstien shocks...

me too. it was news to me.

[rmcferon]

Must be more than 1 reflash available. My car is NOT a Spec.B and my reflash was done as posted above.

[Ryokosman]

I'm at 3k miles now and the car learned a bit of the stutter back but drives way better than pre-flash. I'm still leaning towards a AP whenever their released.

edit- I've noticed that stutter strength seems to be linked to gas quality. Crappy 91 = no performance and more stutter. 93 or 94 = more timing and less stutter.

[paycer]

Just had a reflash done today. Work order says:

Checked programming. OLD- 226UAM96A

Installed new programming. NEW- 226UAM96B

We'll see what happens in a week or so.


Some of you spec.B people (preferably an 07 AND an 08) get the same data off your work orders.

With this information we can find out if they are treating spec.Bs differently than non-spec.Bs when it comes to the ECU.
This could help answer some rumors of whether or not the specs come with a different tune from the factory.

[Carter]

When I bought my 08 LGT, they now come standard with "243 HP" The spec.b in the show room, same year, 08 had "250 HP" written on the windshield. I dont know what the real advertised rating is for the spec.b, but if they had to change to the new SAE ratings, maybe they upped the spec.b back up to 250???

[dr_sharp]

No... dealer gimmic

[Carter]

F R A U D then I suppose.

[seanlsb]

I just had My 08 Spec.B reflashed too. Pre-reflash, the stutter was most prevalent in 2nd with the throttle open. 2nd is pretty smooth now, and now it's a little noticeable in 3rd. It may have been there before, but just paled in comparison to the bucking she was doing through 2. I saw somebody else post identical results.

As far as other differences between the LGT and the LSB besides the Bilsteins and tranny, the LSB has the "SI Drive," which I imagine could affect the ECU. I don't know if it's standard or even available in the LGT.

[easton]

All 07+ turbo cars have the SI-drive

[stewartg]

All 07+ turbo legacys and outbacks have the SI-drive fixed.

[seanlsb]

Oh.

I think my number of posts speaks for itself...

[Lothar]

I just had My 08 Spec.B reflashed too. Pre-reflash, the stutter was most prevalent in 2nd with the throttle open. 2nd is pretty smooth now, and now it's a little noticeable in 3rd. It may have been there before, but just paled in comparison to the bucking she was doing through 2. I saw somebody else post identical results.

Yeah, that was probably me, with my '07 Spec.B. I don't really notice the stutter in 2nd gear anymore, since the reflash, but it's quite pronounced in 3rd. It's so bad that I can't see myself continuing to drive this car as it is for much longer, and I intend to do a Cobb stage 1 AP tune as soon as it is available. I don't even care that it might void my warranty... I'd rather have a car that is running well that is less likely to need repair work in the future. Actually, that's not quite true... I'm more than a little annoyed that I have to potentially void my warranty just to get my car working correctly.

[dr_sharp]

I'm more than a little annoyed that I have to potentially void my warranty just to get my car working correctly.
That's the best summary of this issue to date.

[sylvainsf]

OK So I got the reflash this morning and have put about 100 miles on the car today. The stutter is TOTALLY gone. I had so much fun I drove around for 45 minutes longer than was necessary to get home! No problems in any gear, and I did a few WOT runs from 1st through 4th.

[Lothar]

OK So I got the reflash this morning and have put about 100 miles on the car today. The stutter is TOTALLY gone. I had so much fun I drove around for 45 minutes longer than was necessary to get home! No problems in any gear, and I did a few WOT runs from 1st through 4th.

Give it some time... it will be back. :redface:

[the_3d_man]

Believe it or not the stutter has not come back. I have been driving it since last Friday for about 250 miles and it has not come back. I also do not notice any loss of power or any adverse effects. So... Cali spec map did the trick as odd as it sounds. I'll let you all know if it does come back with further driving.

Oh and it does still take forever for the throttle to respond when you hit the gas. So that annoyance is still there.

[paycer]

Needing some 07 GT, 07 spec.B and 08 spec.B people to find out their reference numbers for their reflashes:

So far we have the:

08 LGT reflash reference # of: old = 226UAM96A new = 226UAM96B

still need to see the

08 spec.B # old = ???? new = ????
07 LGT # old = ???? new = ????
07 spec.B# old = ???? new = ????


would someone that has reflashed with the missing cars above post up what their reflash numbers were?

We've got a chance to see if the factory is treating the 07 and 08 cars differently and whether the spec.Bs are treated differently as well.

[Long Island Legacy]

Yea and the Idiots at Metric Subaru!! Service department would just tell me that it is driver error! i Bet those monkeys namely the ones who sit at the computers all day and not the ones who do the work on the cars. Those idiots are the ones who say there is no such re flash available.

[paycer]

^^^ Tell the jack-holes at Metric to plug in their laptops and fire up the reflash when it shows up as available. Print off pages from these forums and threaten to contant SOA if they won't do it. You paid some good coin for that Subie and the dealer better jump through flaming hoops to make you happy! Without enthusiasts buying the turbo models, SOA would be selling to blue-hairs, lesbians and a couple of granola eaters! Make them fix your car!!!

PS And post that friggin reflash number when you get it done!

[Carter]

Speaking of lesbians...why is Subaru mainly considered "the cars for gays"???

[the_3d_man]

I really have never heard that. I have always thought of VW Beetles and Mini coops as gay cars... but eh, if people say so...

[spicytuna]

Subaru has been advertising to the gay and lesbian community for some time. The Forester in particular seems to be a favorite amongst lesbians.

But in any event, I'm sure they also suffer from engine stutter just like us straight folks.

[dr_sharp]

But in any event, I'm sure they also suffer from engine stutter just like us straight folks.
:lol::lol::lol:

[paycer]

Was flashed today at North Park Subaru.

No comment on results, atm.


Got a copy of that work order from the dealer? I don't have any ECU flash "part" number for an 07 sB yet, can you post up the number to help out?

[paycer]

I got the reflash yesterday and was also told it was not for the lgt but only for the spec.b - as they said that the ecu programming is different

How about posting up that ECU reflash "part" number so we can see an example of what number they flashed an 08 sB model.

[dr_sharp]

Got a copy of that work order from the dealer? I don't have any ECU flash "part" number for an 07 sB yet, can you post up the number to help out?
Actually I don't. I'll get a copy next time I'm in.

After about 200 miles or so I don't notice the studder at all anymore. It is definitely less pronounced. If I try hard I can induce it but I don't notice it on the everyday drive, which is the most important part.

[Lothar]

After about 200 miles or so I don't notice the studder at all anymore. It is definitely less pronounced. If I try hard I can induce it but I don't notice it on the everyday drive, which is the most important part.

I suspect that this is the reason why some Spec.B owners notice the stutter, and others don't... simply because of their driving habits. I tend to accelerate very hard, and this is when the stutter is very noticeable. If a more typical driver tried to drive my car, I doubt that (s)he would even notice it. In fact, when a was describing the stutter to my friend, who has driven my car several times, he told me that he's never noticed the issue on my car. I've sat in the car while he's driven it though, and he certainly doesn't drive it the way I do.

[Vimy101]

Actually I don't. I'll get a copy next time I'm in.

After about 200 miles or so I don't notice the studder at all anymore. It is definitely less pronounced. If I try hard I can induce it but I don't notice it on the everyday drive, which is the most important part.

Good news.

[dr_sharp]

I suspect that this is the reason why some Spec.B owners notice the stutter, and others don't... simply because of their driving habits. I tend to accelerate very hard, and this is when the stutter is very noticeable. If a more typical driver tried to drive my car, I doubt that (s)he would even notice it. In fact, when a was describing the stutter to my friend, who has driven my car several times, he told me that he's never noticed the issue on my car. I've sat in the car while he's driven it though, and he certainly doesn't drive it the way I do.
No disrespect intended but I drive my car harder than you... I guarantee it. That said, it is during hard acceleration that I no longer notice it. Like I said, it is still there, just very difficult to notice.

[Lothar]

No disrespect intended but I drive my car harder than you... I guarantee it.

How do you know how hard I drive my car? :icon_cool

[sylvainsf]

I drive my car VERY hard, used to race 1-2 times a month with my old S2000, and had been waiting to bring my spec.B to the track until this problem was fixed. I have been hammering it and in every gear there is no stutter anymore. Unfortunately the tech did not write down any flash #'s so I don't have any version information for you guys. I am in California though, so for those of you getting 49 state reflashes maybe there's some correlation?

[dr_sharp]

How do you know how hard I drive my car? :icon_cool
:lol:

I don't need to know. Its not possible to drive harder than I do :p

[Lothar]

I don't need to know. Its not possible to drive harder than I do :p

Hehe, I'll take your word for it. Anyway, my point, which I probably didn't verbalize very completely, is that the ECU is apparently adaptive, and learns a driver's driving habits. Since not everybody drives the same way, it is at least a possibility that some people's driving styles (whether they be aggressive, or perhaps just moderate, or perhaps just somebody who tends to shift at a particular RPM with the throttle open just the right amount, who knows) are more inclined to make the car develop a stutter.

I would hypothesize that if I had been the one to drive one of the cars that was reflashed, whose owner is saying that it is all better now, it would be stuttering right now. Conversely, perhaps if you had been the one to drive my car, which is now experiencing a strong stutter right now after the reflash, it wouldn't be stuttering at all.

Then again, perhaps one person's 'hardly noticeable" stutter is the same as my "very noticeable." I am a perfectionist, after all. :cool:

[jblaze7469]

well my 08 spec b has the studder around 3-4k when i go WOT. im in AZ hope i can get the cali flash out here.

[Carter]

Here is what makes me a little mad. I have been calling SOA since the beginging of last week, everyday just to get a flash pak#, thats all I want. The dealer says they dont know of a flash, so I was told by a SOA rep just to call and talk to a senior rep just to make sure there is one, and that the dealer is aware of it. The reps never call me back. My car is scheduled to go in Wednesday night to be hooked up to the computer and I wanted the info before hand. I get a call today, just 5 minutes ago actually, from my dealer asking when I will be dropping my car off tomorrow morning (TUESDAY) as a regional rep will be taking it for a test drive at 10 AM....wtf, nice of SOA to tell me about this. I dont blame the dealer at all, they have put up with me since I bought the car and they have been great. It would be nice is SOA would notify me of when they plan on diagnosing my vehicle. I never even asked for this, all I wanted was a pak#. So now, I need to go straight home tonight and undo my HOGZAWST, even though its not an issue, but I need my car to, look, and sound stock. It just pisses me off there is no communication with me. I guess the "lemon" threat got their asses in motion...

[rudy]

:lol:

I don't need to know. Its not possible to drive harder than I do :p

Do you clock in lower than 12.9 mpg? :)

[dr_sharp]

Do you clock in lower than 12.9 mpg? :)
19 average with 50/50 city hwy.

[GTWILLY]

LOL, 16.2 was the lowest I have gotten after a night of "driving fast next to other cars" in the local fast and furious spot.

[GTWILLY]

"driving fast next to other cars" is the term lawyers like to use in your defense while in court. lol it actually worked :lol:
1 point for speed greater then reasonable was much better than a 5 point street racing ticket...

[dr_sharp]

haha, thats awesome.

[GTWILLY]

Believe me I was VERY suprised

[stewartg]

19 average with 50/50 city hwy.
Looks like I've got you beat dr_sharp. On my St. Helens drive I fueled up and reset my trip meter aprox 50 highway miles from the route. After that trip I refueled at the same station and navi read 12. My daily commute will yeild ~17.5 mpg 100% city, I don't drive it hard everyday. My friends 483whp methyl injection evo got exactly the same mpg's.

[jvcjbl]

21.3MPG right now during breaking... this is pretty low for my likings... my 305whp 340wtq stage 2 06' STI got 30.2MPG on the freeway so I am expecting way better from this new car.

[Zed 2.0]

21.3MPG right now during breaking... this is pretty low for my likings... my 305whp 340wtq stage 2 06' STI got 30.2MPG on the freeway so I am expecting way better from this new car.

Don't. The LGT gets crap mileage.

[Vimy101]

27.6 mpg over the last 1200 miles. 27.3 over the last 10k.

[jvcjbl]

Don't. The LGT gets crap mileage.

I think with the spec.B's 6MT I can muster better gas... I baby my car's

[Zed 2.0]

The only time the 6spd is really going to make a difference is 70mph+ cruising on the highway. But it should save mpg there.

[jvcjbl]

^^^ hence my statement... my driving happens to be like 90% freeway and 10% town... the in town is from the off ramp to work... and then from work to the on ramp....and then from the off ramp to home... and vice versa... The SI Drive in "I" mode seems to do pretty good on gas following the shift indicator.

[Vimy101]

18" wheels have close to 5% larger circumference than the 17s.

[Carter]

Who here has an auto with the issue?? Haven spoken with the regional manager, he states that there is an update for 5 speeds and spec.b's but the 5EAT has no update available.

[one69chev]

my issue is when in S# during wot, the tranny short shifts well below the redline in 2nd and 3rd......

[dasbigunit]

FYI, this is the reply I got when asking about the reflash fix:

"
We suggest that if you have an issue at this time, please allow your Subaru dealership to inspect your vehicle. They are in the best position to diagnose a problem. I can advise you that we have issued a Technical Service Bulletin in regards to a hesitation at certain RPM's, TSB # 11-83-07. I would suggest referencing this bulletin when making your appointment with the dealership as they would be better able to discuss applicability to your vehicle."

hope it helps someone...

[Carter]

FYI, this is the reply I got when asking about the reflash fix:

"
We suggest that if you have an issue at this time, please allow your Subaru dealership to inspect your vehicle. They are in the best position to diagnose a problem. I can advise you that we have issued a Technical Service Bulletin in regards to a hesitation at certain RPM's, TSB # 11-83-07. I would suggest referencing this bulletin when making your appointment with the dealership as they would be better able to discuss applicability to your vehicle."

hope it helps someone...
That tsb is for STi's

[dr_sharp]

Looks like I've got you beat dr_sharp. On my St. Helens drive I fueled up and reset my trip meter aprox 50 highway miles from the route. After that trip I refueled at the same station and navi read 12. My daily commute will yeild ~17.5 mpg 100% city, I don't drive it hard everyday. My friends 483whp methyl injection evo got exactly the same mpg's.
haha, don't want ot make it a competition but 19 is my 13k mile average. Take half of that to be 25mpg gallon hwy miles and I'm roughly 13mpg city everyday ;)

[Carter]

I got my car back from the dealer. They have verified the information on the updates that have been posted on the previous pages. The only problem for me is that they only apply to MANUAL transmissions. The only thing I can think of, and it might be a long shot, but the 5EAT has more brains than a 5MT. All these brains are one unit in the ECU. Maybe they havent developed one for the 5EAT yet....:confused:

[Zed 2.0]

I thought the 5EAT has a separate TCU?

[jvcjbl]

Well talked to my master tech again and he said that our district manager knows about the problem and has the proper update on his laptop. He is supposed to be down today for some other stuff including this. Come to find out our SDS machine isn't updating and therefor we didn't have the update, hence him not knowing about it or finding out about it. He is supposed to reflash me today so we'll see how that goes. I will post my findings either way.

-Jason
Avondale Subaru Sales

[paycer]

Well talked to my master tech again and he said that our district manager knows about the problem and has the proper update on his laptop. He is supposed to be down today for some other stuff including this. Come to find out our SDS machine isn't updating and therefor we didn't have the update, hence him not knowing about it or finding out about it. He is supposed to reflash me today so we'll see how that goes. I will post my findings either way.

-Jason
Avondale Subaru Sales


If you think about it, post up the reflash part number so we can compare it to any others that are being used.

[stewartg]

haha, don't want ot make it a competition but 19 is my 13k mile average. Take half of that to be 25mpg gallon hwy miles and I'm roughly 13mpg city everyday ;)
I don't drive that way everyday. I have only "driven" the car three times. Now it just sits in the garage though. Only time it has came out in the last month is to go get the reflash done. Gonna bring it out soon to get the STi STS installed.

[stewartg]

I got my car back from the dealer. They have verified the information on the updates that have been posted on the previous pages. The only problem for me is that they only apply to MANUAL transmissions. The only thing I can think of, and it might be a long shot, but the 5EAT has more brains than a 5MT. All these brains are one unit in the ECU. Maybe they havent developed one for the 5EAT yet....:confused:
Carter, I will compile an updated list and email you. As far as I know, you cannot determine AT/MT from the VIN, but I will look at the VIN decoding again to be sure. The AT "is" smarter than the 5/6MT, a MT has no brains, it's up to the driver. Since the SI-Drive controls the shift points, there could be some truth to what the dealer/SOA is saying. So your question should not be, is there any 5EAT's affected, because we all know that is for certain, but rather, if any affected 5EAT's have received a reflash.

[Neurodancer]

Waaayyy back when (233 posts ago), the OP linked to Christian's thread on CobbForums. On that thread, I posted (http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36822&page=3)a request for Christian or Trey to give us an update on the AP for 07&08 LGTs. My request was on the 23rd and there has been no response from Cobb.
:attention:
What is the point for a vendor to host their own forums if they aren't going to monitor them (at best) or respond to requests for information (at worst)??? Cobb has a reputation for producing quality products, but customer service is what sets a supplier apart from its competition. Personally, I'd rather spend my money with a company that cares about its customers' questions. I thought it was cool that Christian came to LGT.com and let everyone know that good things were coming, but once again they've created a flurry of anticipation and then forgot about the people that they've tantalized.

Aaarrrgghhhhh! :spin::spin::spin:

:soap_box:

[paycer]

I saw Christian post in a thread about spark plug advice and wondered if it was the same guy. I followed Neurodancer's post to the Cobb forum and sure enough there was some feedback.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurodancer http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=491024#post491024)
http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/images/smilies/Poke.gif Hey Christian (or Trey), Just a bump for updates... Any news???

Unfortunately, no updates as of yet. We have one calibration engineer who has been and will be out of town at SCCA Nationals until next week. This is not an excuse, just reality. After this week, I will try to at least get up some initial dyno information so you can see what these cars are starting with.

Take care,
Christian.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So, we have nothing yet and supposedly next week we'll get some tantalizing numbers. If the numbers turn out to be good and the release date drags on, you'll think that THIS wait was a short commercial break!

Oh well, I've gotta plate the Leggy tomorrow so I'll be broke for a couple of years anyway....:lol:

[Carter]

I thought the 5EAT has a separate TCU?

according to my dealer, the TCU is incorporated into the ECU. I find it odd...Im not sure if its unusual or not All my other cars had a seperate TCU.

[Zrrbrrt]

I just returned from the dealer (Welsh Subaru, Limerick, PA) after having the reflash done on my 07 Spec-B. So far, the difference is night and day. The hesitation is gone from all gears, both in S and S# Mode (I know, report back in 1000 miles or so, i get it). Acceleration and shifts are both much smoother. S Mode feels almost like the S# used to; S# even quicker/smoother. Anyway, I asked for and received a print-out from the Service Dept of the reflash info, so here it is (copied as printed on the page):

Search Result
Pack Number: 22611AL81C
Year: 2007
Vehicle Line: Legacy Spec-B
Emmision [sic] spec: FED, CAL
Engine: 2.5L
Aspiration: Turbo
Transmission: MT
CPU: ECM

Details
Update(s) for: Hesitation at 3000-4000 rpm during acceleration
Necessary connector: None
NSM (SSM2) Pass-Thru capable: Yes
Decryption keyword: 0625B6F5
SUM value: 6434
New CID: A2UI001L


Hope this helps some of you.

[paycer]

^^ Excellent! Thanks for posting all the work order information. It appears that I should be calling the "part" number a "pack" number.

So, here's what we've got so far on the 07-08 reflash pack numbers:
All of these are for MT cars by the way as it appears the automatics don't have the issue.

07GT: No one has posted one yet.
07GTsB: 22611AL81C

08GT: 226UAM96B
08 GTsB: No one has posted one yet.

Side Note:

I talked to my dad earlier today and he told me his 07GT (MT)was at the dealer getting the driver's seat replaced. He bought the car a month ago and the leather on the seat was worn. Anyway, he had mentioned the stutter to me (he described it as "the engine cutting out") shortly after he got the car and I told him I was watching the forums for info for him. Amazingly, (to me), he hadn't told the dealer about wanting a reflash so I told him to do so.

I might have 07GT pack number info sometime soon from him. I'd still like to see another few other 07GTsBs and 08GT pack numbers though so I can unscientifically confirm that each specific year/variant is getting the same pack numbered reflash each time. If you're not one of the two that have already posted your pack numbers, do so please.

Anyway, notice the 07 GTsB is different from the 08GT.
Same engine/turbo combo and same tranny etc. I wonder why they might be different? Is it the model year that is a difference to SOA or is because one is a GT and the other is an sB variant? Hmmm...dunno yet.

PSS, Once I find out how the dealer handled his reflash, I'll get off my @ss and get our 08 GTsB done. :rolleyes:

[Zed 2.0]

I'm getting reflashed tomorrow, will try to get the numbers from them.

[pathfin9]

I got reflashed yesterday at Liberty Subaru. So far no more stutter. I'll scan the service sheet when I get home. We'll see if it stays that way. I'll keep all of you updated.

-John

[Carter]

^^ Excellent! Thanks for posting all the work order information. It appears that I should be calling the "part" number a "pack" number.

So, here's what we've got so far on the 07-08 reflash pack numbers:
All of these are for MT cars by the way as it appears the automatics don't have the issue.

07GT: No one has posted one yet.
07GTsB: 22611AL81C

08GT: 226UAM96B
08 GTsB: No one has posted one yet.

Side Note:

I talked to my dad earlier today and he told me his 07GT (MT)was at the dealer getting the driver's seat replaced. He bought the car a month ago and the leather on the seat was worn. Anyway, he had mentioned the stutter to me (he described it as "the engine cutting out") shortly after he got the car and I told him I was watching the forums for info for him. Amazingly, (to me), he hadn't told the dealer about wanting a reflash so I told him to do so.

I might have 07GT pack number info sometime soon from him. I'd still like to see another few other 07GTsBs and 08GT pack numbers though so I can unscientifically confirm that each specific year/variant is getting the same pack numbered reflash each time. If you're not one of the two that have already posted your pack numbers, do so please.

Anyway, notice the 07 GTsB is different from the 08GT.
Same engine/turbo combo and same tranny etc. I wonder why they might be different? Is it the model year that is a difference to SOA or is because one is a GT and the other is an sB variant? Hmmm...dunno yet.

PSS, Once I find out how the dealer handled his reflash, I'll get off my @ss and get our 08 GTsB done. :rolleyes:


Dont take me negatively, but you cant just say 07/08 LGT and spec.b. For the LGT there is only a flash for the 5MT. There is no reflash for the 5EAT. I may be one of the few here with a 5EAT, but that doesnt matter. I want my car fixed too. The PAK files would not be the same either for both AT and MT as the TCU is incorportated into the ECU (So I have been told by the dealer). The 5EAT requires more brains than a 5MT would.

You need to split up as

08 LGT 5 MT
08 LGT 5 EAT
08 spec.b

07 LGT 5 MT
07 LGT 5 EAT
07 spec.b

[paycer]

^^

Sorry about that Carter, I guess I knew that you wanted your ride reflashed too,
but I thought the automatics weren't stuttering so I forgot to include them.

Here we go then, the PAK numbers for reflashes we have so far are:

08 LGT 5 MT ---226UAM96B
08 LGT 5 EAT ---No one has posted one yet.
08 spec.b ---No one has posted one yet.

07 LGT 5 MT ---No one has posted one yet.
07 LGT 5 EAT ---No one has posted one yet.
07 spec.b ---22611AL81C

PS anyone know what "PAK" stands for? I thought I saw a dealer spell it "pack",
but I've seen other dealer info that says "PAK". I'm sure PAK is correct, but it stands for :confused:

[MAINIAC SPEC B]

I just returned from the dealer (Welsh Subaru, Limerick, PA) after having the reflash done on my 07 Spec-B. So far, the difference is night and day. The hesitation is gone from all gears, both in S and S# Mode (I know, report back in 1000 miles or so, i get it). Acceleration and shifts are both much smoother. S Mode feels almost like the S# used to; S# even quicker/smoother. Anyway, I asked for and received a print-out from the Service Dept of the reflash info, so here it is (copied as printed on the page):

Search Result
Pack Number: 22611AL81C
Year: 2007
Vehicle Line: Legacy Spec-B
Emmision [sic] spec: FED, CAL
Engine: 2.5L
Aspiration: Turbo
Transmission: MT
CPU: ECM

Details
Update(s) for: Hesitation at 3000-4000 rpm during acceleration
Necessary connector: None
NSM (SSM2) Pass-Thru capable: Yes
Decryption keyword: 0625B6F5
SUM value: 6434
New CID: A2UI001L


Hope this helps some of you.

Thank you, I have an appointment with my dealer Patriot Subaru tomorrow morning for an inspection and I will give them your info so my car can run smooooth again ! The last time I was there they had no clue about this problem even after I gave them pages of complaints from our forum.:spin:

[paycer]

^^Make sure you get them to include which PAK # they use to reflash your ECU.

Some dealers are including it on the customer's paperwork and some aren't.
My dad's 07 GT got flashed today and they didn't include the PAK # :spin:.
I'll call the dealer tomorrow to get it and post it up.

I'd like to confirm that the dealer flashes yours with the exact same PAK# they used for Zrrbrrt since you guys both have 07 spec.Bs. Perhaps see what their computer says your car needs and then break out a copy of Zrrbrrt's paperwork if necessary.

BTW, my dad said his car is much smoother, but has only gotten on it a few times since the reflash.

Good luck with the reflas