DUDE!! 07 reflash????

[pathfin9]

Hey Guys,
I just called my dealership to see if they'd give me the pak number, but no luck. They said they weren't allowed to give it out. However, when I did go there to get it reflashed I showed them this pak# 22611 AM96B. So far the car is 100% stutter free. Very smooth. Hope it stays that way, at least until the new AP comes out.
Good luck everyone!

-John
Thanks for posting that up and someone might be able to use that to get their dealer to reflash their car.

Unfortunately, just like on my dad's and tractorcrushers and others I'm sure, the service people didn't include the actual PAK# they flashed your car with on the invoice. If you get bored over the next few days and you think about it, you could probably call the service dept back, reference your invoice number and they could tell you that PAK#. I'm gonna try to do the same thing tommorrow to get my dad's 07 GT (MT) info.

You would have the first 08 spec.B PAK# that we know of so that would REALLY cool to know. Of course I don't want to guilt you into finding it out for us, but if you think about it. maybe????:redface:


PS Carter, you mean something like 8044234B.pak or something?

[Zed 2.0]

Just had my '08 GT reflashed. The service tech didn't know about the reflash and initially diagnosed the stutter as the turbo spooling up. I asked him to check on his laptop, and he found the update.

I only had minor stutter before, which came a couple hundred miles ago (I'm now at 4500). The car drives much better now. There is no stutter, and the power comes on with a nice smooth rush of boost after 2500rpm, just how a turbo'd car should feel.

I only got to push the car to the top of 2nd gear, but seems to be completely fixed. S mode is most improved--it seems like they also smoothed out the throttle responsiveness, with none of the old jerkiness and much easier shifting.

The reflash is definitely worth explaining to your dealer.

[paycer]

Hey Guys,
I just called my dealership to see if they'd give me the pak number, but no luck. They said they weren't allowed to give it out. However, when I did go there to get it reflashed I showed them this pak# 22611 AM96B. So far the car is 100% stutter free. Very smooth. Hope it stays that way, at least until the new AP comes out.
Good luck everyone!

-John


John (pathfin9), are you under the impression that they flashed your car with pak# 22611AM96B because you suggested they use that number? If so, then maybe the 08' GT and GTsB use the same pak#s.

[Lothar]

Just had my '08 GT reflashed. The service tech didn't know about the reflash and initially diagnosed the stutter as the turbo spooling up. I asked him to check on his laptop, and he found the update.

I only had minor stutter before, which came a couple hundred miles ago (I'm now at 4500). The car drives much better now. There is no stutter, and the power comes on with a nice smooth rush of boost after 2500rpm, just how a turbo'd car should feel.

I only got to push the car to the top of 2nd gear, but seems to be completely fixed. S mode is most improved--it seems like they also smoothed out the throttle responsiveness, with none of the old jerkiness and much easier shifting

That was my exact experience after I had my reflash done recently... I too only had a chance to push it to the top of 2nd gear on the roads I drove after leaving the dealer, and I didn't notice a stutter at all anymore, so I assumed that it was all fixed. A few hundred miles later, when I was on a roadtrip, I discovered that the stutter was back but was only noticeable in 3rd (and to a lesser extent, 4th) gear, at 3000-4000 RPM.

I'd be curious for you to report back after a few hundred miles and let us know if you have the same experience.

I'd also be curious to hear anybody's guess as to why the stutter would be more pronounced in certain gears than in others (not being felt at all at a particular RPM in one gear, but being distinctly felt in another gear at exactly the same RPM), if this is not a transmission issue.

[SPECB08]

lothar,

what octane do you run? In NJ we have 93 and my stutter has not returmed at all in 600 miles. regards

[Lothar]

lothar,

what octane do you run? In NJ we have 93 and my stutter has not returmed at all in 600 miles. regards

I've never used anything but 93 in my Spec.B.

[MAINIAC SPEC B]

Thanks to ZRRBRRT I gave Patriot Subaru the info he supplied this morning. So far so good, not only at WOT butt at normal driving real smooth. My work order reads:
Customer states hesitation continues, see history. Customer believes there is a reflash for his concern and brought reflash info. Tech performed reflash, test OK now. A455-288 UPG-48 AKV 6211.
I am not only crossing my fingers I am crossing my balls for good measure :spin:

[pathfin9]

I'm not sure if they used the same pak, he didnt really look at the number I gave him too intensely. Basically, I took the car to the dealer, and said that I wanted to get the ecu reflashed because it was stuttering. They took it in and as I was waiting he came back and asked where I heard about the reflash, so I told him I heard of it on the Legacy Forums, and then showed him the number. He glanced at it, said ok, and went back to the garage. 10 min later it was done, and my car no longer stuttered. I believe I was the first person to get the Legacy reflashed at Liberty Subaru, so maybe they didnt know about it and had to do a search on their computer for it. Either way, the car doesnt stutter anymore, and in fact actually pulls really nicely now. It feels much faster now than it did before.
I would suggest people just go into the dealer with that number just incase they question you about the reflash. That way if there is a reflash, whether the same or different from the pak #, they will at least search for it and it should come up, and they will do the reflash.
I hope this helps as the stutter really sucks.
Good luck!

-John
John (pathfin9), are you under the impression that they flashed your car with pak# 22611AM96B because you suggested they use that number? If so, then maybe the 08' GT and GTsB use the same pak#s.

[Carter]

As I stated in another thread, I am taking a vacation Day Thursday. As there is NO reflash for 5EAT's A tech from Subaru is flying up here and the regional rep is coming along too. Im kind of nervous. I am very afraid I won't be able to duplicate the problem. I have an apointment for 10:30a. Hopefully the freeway will be free and clear so I can do some real testing. I've actually been practicing where and when it stutters (Engine speed, vehicle speed, and gear.) Any tips peeps?

[Zed 2.0]

I always got the worst stutter in s#, flooring it from a standstill

[stewartg]

S mode in 2nd gear at 2500 rpms. Floor it and pull all the way through 2nd and 3rd.

[Lothar]

As the last two post illustrate, the one constant with this stutter issue seems to be that it is manifest inconsistently from car to car (owner to owner). With me, the reflash simply changed the gear at which I notice the stutter, from 2nd, to 3rd, but it is definitely still there. Some people notice it in S#, some in S mode. Some notice it in 2nd gear, others in 3rd. Some people say the reflash completely fixed it, others say it didn't help at all (or only helped for a brief time)...

Today, I discovered that the stutter only seems to happen for me now in S# mode. I drove around in S mode and didn't notice the stutter at all, but it's still quite pronounced in S#.

[Vimy101]

I go WOT all the time but I've rarely ever "floored it".

[Carter]

I've discovered its the worst for me in S# in 3rd gear, about 40 MPH using SportShift. The transmission will let me downshift into 2nd gear, but I dont feel too comfortable going 40 MPH in 2nd. It just doesnt seem right...

[dasbigunit]

bogs are the worst on the track!

anyoen know if the update fo 5MT lgt's apply directly to 5mt outback xt's?

[Carter]

bogs are the worst on the track!

anyoen know if the update fo 5MT lgt's apply directly to 5mt outback xt's?


Thats a very good question....Subaru says they are "different"

[Long Island Legacy]

^^ Excellent! Thanks for posting all the work order information. It appears that I should be calling the "part" number a "pack" number.

So, here's what we've got so far on the 07-08 reflash pack numbers:
All of these are for MT cars by the way as it appears the automatics don't have the issue.

07GT: No one has posted one yet.
07GTsB: 22611AL81C

08GT: 226UAM96B
08 GTsB: No one has posted one yet.

Side Note:

I talked to my dad earlier today and he told me his 07GT (MT)was at the dealer getting the driver's seat replaced. He bought the car a month ago and the leather on the seat was worn. Anyway, he had mentioned the stutter to me (he described it as "the engine cutting out") shortly after he got the car and I told him I was watching the forums for info for him. Amazingly, (to me), he hadn't told the dealer about wanting a reflash so I told him to do so.

I might have 07GT pack number info sometime soon from him. I'd still like to see another few other 07GTsBs and 08GT pack numbers though so I can unscientifically confirm that each specific year/variant is getting the same pack numbered reflash each time. If you're not one of the two that have already posted your pack numbers, do so please.

Anyway, notice the 07 GTsB is different from the 08GT.
Same engine/turbo combo and same tranny etc. I wonder why they might be different? Is it the model year that is a difference to SOA or is because one is a GT and the other is an sB variant? Hmmm...dunno yet.

PSS, Once I find out how the dealer handled his reflash, I'll get off my @ss and get our 08 GTsB done. :rolleyes:

Can i ask why the seat was being replaced. My pas anger seat is squeaky as hell i wonder if they can replaces it. its terrible when u sit in it it creakes like a rocking chair

[stewartg]

^^ Mine does the same thing, f'n annoying.

[paycer]

Can i ask why the seat was being replaced. My pas anger seat is squeaky as hell i wonder if they can replaces it. its terrible when u sit in it it creakes like a rocking chair

The seat on my dad's car was replaced due to some worn leather that was on it when he got it so as far as I know there wasn't any weird noises coming from it.
I do know that others LGT owners have complained of a noisy seat though. Not sure if it was year specific or what the fix if any turned out to be.

[dasbigunit]

Thats a very good question....Subaru says they are "different"

So the PAK # list should be:

08 LGT 5 MT ---226UAM96B
08 LGT 5 EAT ---No one has posted one yet.
08 spec.b ---No one has posted one yet.
08 OBXT 5MT---No one has posted one yet.
08 OBXT 5EAT---No one has posted one yet.

07 LGT 5 MT ---No one has posted one yet.
07 LGT 5 EAT ---No one has posted one yet.
07 spec.b ---22611AL81C
07 OBXT 5MT ---No one has posted one yet.
07 OBXT 5EAT ---No one has posted one yet.

yeah?

[paycer]

^^ I guess so, geez. Carter where did you hear about the OBXT being different than the GTs of their respective years?

[rudy]

^^ I guess so, geez. Carter where did you hear about the OBXT being different than the GTs of their respective years?

Different file name doesn't mean the underlying code is different.

[JABBER]

Took my 07 spec in last night to have reflash done. They hooked it up to their computer and no reflash was available?? I had the above "pack" number and everything. Shouldn't all subaru service departments have this reflash in their system?? Is there someone I can have them contact to get the reflash??

[vader1]

Anyone know if the 2007 GT will accept the 07 spec b file?

They tried to upload the 08 GT file into my 07 and the computer would not take it. (perhaps they could have used some lube)

Anyway, I'd be fine with a "spec b" file as long as it cures the stutter.

[CapnJack]

Had my car in for an oil change today and also the re-flash. Unfortunately the service guy and tech were gone when I picked up the car so I couldn't pick their brain on it. The invoice said something interesting. What are your thoughts?

"Engine surge upon accel"
"Tech found ECM lost programming Tech Reprogrammed"
"PCM Relearned OK now"

The only other numbers listed were A455281 and UEC43 T71 7

The stutter is still there, but it is not nearly as bad as it was. Mine was to the point the car would jerk pretty violently while accelerating. Let's see if it stays this way...

Last week the stutter started to get worse again. It was about 600 miles after the reflash mentioned above. I called my dealer and they have their "Subaru Master Technician" at class this week so they sent him with a project for his training; to speak with the engineer that teaches the course in search for a resolution for the stutter on the 07 GT MT.

I figure if we hit Subaru from every direction in all parts of the country, they HAVE to do something. :confused:

[paycer]

Different file name doesn't mean the underlying code is different.


I agree, but how stupid would that be to have different numbers for the same flash? A bit of a organizational nightmare I'd think. Different .pak reflash numbers for the supposed same engines (07-08). A subie owner who's 07 wouldn't accept an 08 flash. Common sense would say that they run different tunes, but I'm beginning to believe that SOA has less than a full tank of the common sense these days.

[stewartg]

Anyone know if the 2007 GT will accept the 07 spec b file?

They tried to upload the 08 GT file into my 07 and the computer would not take it. (perhaps they could have used some lube)

Anyway, I'd be fine with a "spec b" file as long as it cures the stutter.
The ECU has to accept the new map, I'm guessing the files have the year and models encoded in the flash so that you cannot apply the wrong flash to a car, even though they may have been otherwise compatible. The dealer wouldn't want to take that risk either and have to buy your car if there were issues immediate or further down the line.

You will probably need a my07 obxt specific flash.

[tvitarelli]

I took my car in for an oil change Friday and mentioned the hesitation. I even provided them with the Pak #. The service sheet came back saying the tech was unable to reproduce the hesitation and the number I provided does not exist. I don't believe them so I am going to try another dealer.

[MAINIAC SPEC B]

If you have a 07 Spec. B. go to post #227 ZRRBRRT and use his info. I did and so far so good:spin:

[Carter]

Well today was the day with the Subaru tech and the regional rep. Not much to say and I am very disapointed, we spent less than 30 minutes driving like a grandma. He wouldnt even drive it. He logged some data, I showed him what was happening in sport shift. On the way back to the dealership he wanted me to drive normally in "D". He asked what happens in D, and I told him it just goes to redline if I floor it, thats not exactly the best thing IMO. I dont think I should drive the vehicle like a grandma, and I should have plenty of power at 3rd and 40MPH without having to downshift and redline in second. I get the feeling he disagreed. He said everything looks normal. I was not able to look at the information. I felt like I was wasting HIS time. I just dont understand. He didnt want me to boost at all. I told the regional rep I was not happy with this test and it did not show what was wrong with the vehicle. I got the feeling neither of them gave a shit. The dealer service manager asked me how things went, and I told him not so good. I dont expect much. I should hear back tomorrow and if I dont get any useful information, SOA will recieve a certified letter stating that I will be contacting the Attorney General's office asking to lemon the vehicle. I took the day off from work for nothing. I am actually really pissed off and I dont even want to think or talk about it anymore.

[Vimy101]

^ :(

[grbspecb]

i remember years ago my father had a roblem with his toyota supra turbo. a bunch of japanese guys showed up at the dealer and installed equipment in his car and he drove the vehicle for a week anyway he wanted. at the end they took back the equipment for analysis bought him 4 new tires apologized and gave a nice little gift for my mother. now that was great service and the data would be proper as it was for a week.

[Carter]

i remember years ago my father had a roblem with his toyota supra turbo. a bunch of japanese guys showed up at the dealer and installed equipment in his car and he drove the vehicle for a week anyway he wanted. at the end they took back the equipment for analysis bought him 4 new tires apologized and gave a nice little gift for my mother. now that was great service and the data would be proper as it was for a week.


Do you mind if I mention that scenario in my letter, friend? :)

[rs6er]

i remember years ago my father had a roblem with his toyota supra turbo. a bunch of japanese guys showed up at the dealer and installed equipment in his car and he drove the vehicle for a week anyway he wanted. at the end they took back the equipment for analysis bought him 4 new tires apologized and gave a nice little gift for my mother. now that was great service and the data would be proper as it was for a week.

And that's why Toyota is #1 today. They take their customers seriously.

[Carter]

No contact from anyone today as promised. This was the last straw that broke the camels back. I told the reresentative on the phone to give the manager and senior rep a little message. I'm mailing a certified letter to Subaru headquarters stating my complete and utter disbelief in their customer service, especially the Senior representitive and Manager. I have never ever been ignored the way I have by Subaru. My faith and loyalty to Subaru has been destroyed. I haven't had so much disgust in a company in my entire life. The letter will also be stating that I will be contacting the attorny general to go ahead with the proper steps to lemon the vehicle. I will never buy another Subaru as long as I live on this earth. This company is pitiful.

I am going to have some letters made up and stuck to the back of my winshield stating that the vehicle I am driving is a LEMON. Word of mouth too is a powerful tool.

[Carter]

And I will be milking the warranty for everything its worth. For example, the rear tint that came on it is 1 point over the legal limit and has some very minor flaws, It will have to be re done. Even though Subaru didnt do it, it will end up being charged to them.

[jmfspecb]

Took my 07 Spec B in today to the dealership. They installed the Megan Racing CBE, Perrin TMIC, Cobb Pulley and hi-perf catted downpipe... and they did the reflash. No stutter after I left the dealer. It felt odd, though, like the power actually dropped. And then 25 miles later... boom the power was back and then some. No stutter, no hesitation. Let's see what happens after 1K miles.

[dbrunone]

Took my 07 Spec B in today to the dealership. They installed the Megan Racing CBE, Perrin TMIC, Cobb Pulley and hi-perf catted downpipe... and they did the reflash. No stutter after I left the dealer. It felt odd, though, like the power actually dropped. And then 25 miles later... boom the power was back and then some. No stutter, no hesitation. Let's see what happens after 1K miles.

Ummmm....you got all that hardware and youre using the stock tune???? :orly:

[rudy]

Got my 07 GT flashed today. Everything feels fine, problem (which was minor to begin with) was solved today for me.

[jmfspecb]

Yep. Stock tune. Waiting for the AP to update it. Paid for and ordered the darn thing about a year ago. I keep telling myself it can't be much longer.

I've asked other 07 owners who've done the same mods w/o a tune what happened. Their answer was that it worked just fine. TDC concurred. True potential is still locked up, of course, because of the tune (or lack thereof actually).

[Ryokosman]

Well outta the blue mine stuttered like hell today. Yesterday I was just thinking how much better it was than before.... Oh well. I guess I'm just gonna get a AP when they come out. Its not like I can't live with it.

[MAINIAC SPEC B]

Took my 07 Spec B in today to the dealership. They installed the Megan Racing CBE, Perrin TMIC, Cobb Pulley and hi-perf catted downpipe... and they did the reflash. No stutter after I left the dealer. It felt odd, though, like the power actually dropped. And then 25 miles later... boom the power was back and then some. No stutter, no hesitation. Let's see what happens after 1K miles.

Your dealer installed those mods. Are they still honoring your warranty?:spin:

[rudy]

Your dealer installed those mods. Are they still honoring your warranty?:spin:

I actually think he did the right thing. Be honest about mods, heck, even throw them the money to install them, and most dealers IMO will at least be cool enough to just follow a "you break it, you buy it" policy. Which, is pretty much the way it should be, anyway. I think more problems are caused by people trying to return to stock (which most experienced mechanics can spot easily) and pull fast ones at the dealership.

[jmfspecb]

Yep, the dealership is a great one. It is also conveniently located near me. There's a tech over there who does work on the side after hours. I think as long as the mod doesn't cause the problem, they will honor the warranty. In other words, my warranty for my HVAC will be fine unless they say the Cobb downpipe did it.

[wrx034me]

i've also had DP, CB and tmic on my 08 spec since not long after delivery with no ill effects, other than my stutter

couldnt just let all the parts off of the 05 gt sit around and collect dust you know

[Lothar]

..........

the whole power curve on this car is jerky as all hell.


You left out the most important piece of info... who won?

[Neurodancer]

.............

Guys -- lets, keep the kill stories to a thread that can be locked with no one caring... There are people following this "studder" thing and this thread is gaining useful information.

[dr_sharp]

Guys -- lets, keep the kill stories to a thread that can be locked with no one caring... There are people following this "studder" thing and this thread is gaining useful information.
+10

[mccorry]

Guys -- lets, keep the kill stories to a thread that can be locked with no one caring... There are people following this "studder" thing and this thread is gaining useful information.

Yes.... and thanks for the help. ;)

[bms231]

Guys -- lets, keep the kill stories to a thread that can be locked with no one caring... There are people following this "studder" thing and this thread is gaining useful information.


I really wasn't trying to go into detail about a kill story.... but instead paint a picture of what I was doing and maybe get some help. so deleting my original thread was special imo.


So to re-cap......S#

2nd gear

entered @ 2krpm

started to go

giant dip

started to go again nice

[sylvainsf]

Going on 1000 miles since the reflash and while the stutter isn't back, I will say that there is kind of a flat spot in the power. It doesn't hesitate or dip, but I don't feel it pull that strongly at 32-3500 rpms. It's very driveable and still feels like a whole new car.

[Fernely]

Got the Re-flash @ Mastro Imports in Sanford, Fl. I was in and out in about 45 min. Explained to the service writer about the problem, they drove the car in plugged into the computer bang a bit later whole new car! nice smooth power delivery. Since Thursday I have put ~800 miles on the flash still smooth as butter. I highly recomend if you are in the Orlando area to stop by this dealer and have them plug it in and see if you get the re-flash. Thanks Subaru you saved me 600 plus a custom tune. :lol: I have no need or want to increase the power output of my spec B so the re-flash was perfect for me.

[rudy]

My reflash is so good I got a ticket today :) Oh well, this is why you go to law school....

[JABBER]

Why would my dealer not have the reflash?

[dr_sharp]

My reflash is so good I got a ticket today :) Oh well, this is why you go to law school....
Me too!!!... Damn this engineering degree! :lol:

[burnin4]

i stopped by the local subaru dealership today, got the reflash. so far so good. definitely much smoother, worth the time. I'll let you guys know if anything changes.

[burnin4]

Going on 1000 miles since the reflash and while the stutter isn't back, I will say that there is kind of a flat spot in the power. It doesn't hesitate or dip, but I don't feel it pull that strongly at 32-3500 rpms. It's very driveable and still feels like a whole new car.

+1 . i noticed the same thing after my reflash.

[jvcjbl]

Tried to get the reflash at work today since we finally got our SDS fixed.... the lead tech says there is no update listed for the spec.B. He knows there is an update available for my car but nothing available on our SDS. He said it is probably having trouble updating itself again.

-Jason
Avondale Subaru Sales

[dr_sharp]

Its been about 1k since my reflash...



Its as if there never was a reflash... just as bad as day 1

[Fernely]

I'm over a thousand now and its still its still smooth as can be. I'll keep touching base though so we can keep a running tab.

[cannis]

Reflashed on Saturday. It's like a totally different car. My wife will actually drive with me now because she says the car no longer makes her sick to her stomach due to all the jerking.

So, I'm happy, and it's great and all. But I'm still really disappointed that I've driven for >10K miles now on a car that was quite messed up from the get-go. I can't help but think that other higher-end car companies would never let something like this happen. Seriously, didn't anyone from Subaru actually test drive this car before they released it? You're telling me they never realized there was a serious problem with power delivery? Sheesh...

Whatever... just venting. I'm happy and I don't see why things would go back to the way they were... I know the ECU is self-adjusting, but this isn't the same ECU setup that the car originally came with; it's obviously quite different.

For now I'm just going to enjoy and try and forget this ever happened!

[autotech]

Im going to day to take my car in for the reflash. I took it in about a month ago and they said that there was no reflash or update for my car, so im hoping that going today i can get this done and over with. Anyone else have a dealer tell them its not available, if so can someone tell me why they wouldn't have and another dealer would. I just have a bad feeling that i will left hung out to dry again...

[CapnJack]

I spoke to my dealer today. As of today, there was no updated flash for the 07 LGT. He said Subaru is aware of the problem and is currently working on a correction for it.

[rudy]

I spoke to my dealer today. As of today, there was no updated flash for the 07 LGT. He said Subaru is aware of the problem and is currently working on a correction for it.

As of today, they didn't have the reflash. I got my 07 LGT reflashed two weeks ago. Unless you're talking about the auto tranny, not sure about the status of that one.

[Fernely]

Reflashed on Saturday. It's like a totally different car. My wife will actually drive with me now because she says the car no longer makes her sick to her stomach due to all the jerking.

So, I'm happy, and it's great and all. But I'm still really disappointed that I've driven for >10K miles now on a car that was quite messed up from the get-go. I can't help but think that other higher-end car companies would never let something like this happen. Seriously, didn't anyone from Subaru actually test drive this car before they released it? You're telling me they never realized there was a serious problem with power delivery? Sheesh...

Whatever... just venting. I'm happy and I don't see why things would go back to the way they were... I know the ECU is self-adjusting, but this isn't the same ECU setup that the car originally came with; it's obviously quite different.

For now I'm just going to enjoy and try and forget this ever happened!

From what I read on bimmer forums they are having the same problem with the 335's I think it may have to do with drive by wire and having a turbo but just because a car is 30K+ does not make it immune to gliches.

I have to say from some of the responses I have read here some folks are very sensitive to this hesitation cause honestly I barely noticed it unless I was driving like a madman. I'm up to 1500 miles still butter, knock on wood. Maybe the 08's are taking the flash better for whatever reason it seems the 07's are learning back the studder.

[CapnJack]

As of today, they didn't have the reflash. I got my 07 LGT reflashed two weeks ago. Unless you're talking about the auto tranny, not sure about the status of that one.

I had my 07 LGT 5MT flashed about a month ago and the stutter returned after about 600-700 miles. I'm not sure of the status on AT either...

[vader1]

I guess I can post an update if anyone cares......

My car was in the shop for almost three weeks. The dealer found no applicable reflash but gave it some sort of new file which did not cure the problem (it seems slightly better but may raturn in time) and my gas milage is down 15% from what it had been. Some of that could be due to the fact that it is getting colder here so cold start is probably much richer. They also removed and checked half of the engine per techline instructions and found nothing.

I sent Subaru USA an email complaint and did not here anything. I called the Subaru customer service line and was told that I had a case number and someone had sent me an email (it never got through). I asked them to resend and they said they would, they also took my phone number so a customer service manager could return my call. I never recieved a return call or an email. After wiating two additional weeks I called again, again they have taken my phone number and told me they will get back to me.

My friend had an 06 Forester that left him stranded once and the first thing the customer service line did when he called was extend his powertrain warranty to 8/80,000 to try to make him happy. I can't get them to even call me back and it was a 25 minute wait on the phone before the call was even picked up by a rep.

Subaru Outback XT Limited $32,000

Subaru Customer Service, WORTHLESS

Getting your purchase price back minus 10%, plus tax title and license under MN lemon law, PRICELESS

[rudy]

I'm really curious to ride in someone's car who has a 'bad' case of stutter. I honestly could hardly notice it, and it was not something I had an issue with really. I just figured, if there is a reflash that improves whatever my current state is, why not get it. But, it wasn't a necessity.

[paycer]

Just got the 08 spec.B flashed yesterday and the big hesitation seems to be mostly gone.

The spec.B is my wife's car so I don't drive it every day, but compared to my 05 STi (stage II PDX tuning off the shelf map) which is my daily driver, the spec.B is still not as smooth under WOT even after the reflash.

Before the reflash under full-tilt acceleration runs, the spec would cut out for a few milliseconds and that <blam> it would come on full blast. Typical of some of the other stutter accounts in this thread.

Yesterday after the reflash I wrung out the car for about 30 minutes and could still feel some faint "fluttery" feelings (itty-bitty mini stutters?)when under WOT. No major dead spots in the power band though and overall I think we can live with the little mini stutters I experienced.

That is until Cobb finally releases the AP and and I can get a super smooth map loaded on the car. Oh well, the reflash was totally worth it (so far) and of course if the stutter returns I will report back.

PS My dad got his 07 GT reflashed almost a month ago and he is also pleased (so far) with his reflash.

[vader1]

[quote=rudy;1443806]I'm really curious to ride in someone's car who has a 'bad' case of stutter.


Put your Miata in first and get it rolling at about 3000-4000 rpm, then rapidly floor it and let off, alternating between totally on the gas and off the gas every half second. Thats what bad stutter is like. Or sometimes you will floor it and it will do nothing for a count of about 3 and then take off.

Totally ghey when you need to pass someone.

I won't ask Subaru for my money back if they change the desciption in the brochures to say "You can choose a powerful efficient 2.5 liter, the silky smooth 6, or lumpy-bunking-bronco crapshoot acceleration of the 2.5 turbo!"

[autotech]

i still can't find a dealer that will even attempt to look for a flash for my car, wont even hook it up...just tell me that theres no flash. BS if you ask me, i got two more dealers near me ive yet to try, but its seemingly hopeless. Anyone else have an 07LGT that had a reflash done? if so can you send me a copy of your receipt with the name and stuff blocked out so i can prove it my dealer.

[Lothar]

i still can't find a dealer that will even attempt to look for a flash for my car, wont even hook it up...just tell me that theres no flash. BS if you ask me, i got two more dealers near me ive yet to try, but its seemingly hopeless. Anyone else have an 07LGT that had a reflash done? if so can you send me a copy of your receipt with the name and stuff blocked out so i can prove it my dealer.

I don't know if this would actually do any good, but if I were you, I would complain to SOA's customer service department that these dealers (mention them by name) are not even checking for a reflash availability, or are denying that one exists. SOA knows that the reflashes exist, so they should be able to deal with the dealers directly to give them whatever info they need. Perhaps SOA can give you a letter describing the available reflash that you can take to a dealer.

[Neurodancer]

I don't know if its gonna creep back, but I just threw the K&N panel filter in and my stutter virtually disappeared! It no longer bucks at 3500 RPM under WOT, but I have a little flutter like Paycer (^^^) at about 3800.

Does anyone else suffering from the stutter have a high flow filter in? Just wondering if its a short-term fix or enought to hold me over until the AP comes out (2 weeks baby! <knock wood>).

[CapnJack]

I don't know if its gonna creep back, but I just threw the K&N panel filter in and my stutter virtually disappeared! It no longer bucks at 3500 RPM under WOT, but I have a little flutter like Paycer (^^^) at about 3800.

Does anyone else suffering from the stutter have a high flow filter in? Just wondering if its a short-term fix or enought to hold me over until the AP comes out (2 weeks baby! <knock wood>).


I'm willing to give it a try. There is a K&N drop in in my wife's Outback. She would never notice if I swapped filters with her. :icon_chee

[vr4Legacy]

i still can't find a dealer that will even attempt to look for a flash for my car, wont even hook it up...just tell me that theres no flash. BS if you ask me, i got two more dealers near me ive yet to try, but its seemingly hopeless. Anyone else have an 07LGT that had a reflash done? if so can you send me a copy of your receipt with the name and stuff blocked out so i can prove it my dealer.


Here is the Calibration ID# for my '08 LGT MT -AT2B001N

I know you have an '07, but ask them if they have anything for an '08 if they say no, ask them to look up my Calibration ID, when they realize, oh uh well yeah that's there,:confused: maybe they'll try harder to find yours. If they don't ask to talk to they SOA regional rep.

BTW - Reflash helped me immensely. Haven't noticed the stutter, it's only been 3 days, so I'll report back if it returns.

[autotech]

Here is the Calibration ID# for my '08 LGT MT -AT2B001N

I know you have an '07, but ask them if they have anything for an '08 if they say no, ask them to look up my Calibration ID, when they realize, oh uh well yeah that's there,:confused: maybe they'll try harder to find yours. If they don't ask to talk to they SOA regional rep.

BTW - Reflash helped me immensely. Haven't noticed the stutter, it's only been 3 days, so I'll report back if it returns.



Thanks, im taking this to another dealer on saturday and hopefully they can help me...got my fingers crossed.

[wnstn]

quick question - has anyone in ontario, canada get the reflash? I just called my dealer today - markham subaru and they haven't heard of such thing.. jebus.

[burnin4]

my stutter returned :mad:. after my dealer flash. it seemed to be a llittle smoother at first, almost like a "dead spot" instead of the stutter. anyway, the stuter is back, just not nearly as bad. still drives me insane, hope cobb ap is released soon.

[Lothar]

my stutter returned :mad:. after my dealer flash. it seemed to be a llittle smoother at first, almost like a "dead spot" instead of the stutter..

That's exactly how I would describe how my car behaved after I got my reflash.

[vr4Legacy]

my stutter returned :mad:. after my dealer flash. it seemed to be a llittle smoother at first, almost like a "dead spot" instead of the stutter. anyway, the stuter is back, just not nearly as bad. still drives me insane, hope cobb ap is released soon.

LA LA LA.... I'm not listening.... LA LA LA :spin:

[HieroGLFX]

I will bring in my car as soon as I get it back from the body shop :-(

[jvcjbl]

I got the reflash today... it took corporate 2 days of work to get our SDS back online. The car is a different beast now.... it pulls hard and even. I am finally happy 100% with my purchase

[XTMark]

FWIW, took my 07 Outback XT in and was told there was no flash for mine, but they did acknowledge there's one for the Spec B's.

I guess the race is on to see who can take the longest to help us on this stutter: Subaru or Cobb.:mad:

[Fernely]

my stutter returned :mad:. after my dealer flash. it seemed to be a llittle smoother at first, almost like a "dead spot" instead of the stutter. anyway, the stuter is back, just not nearly as bad. still drives me insane, hope cobb ap is released soon.

See now I just don't get it. Its hit and miss it seems. How many miles on your 08 before it came back. I'm at almost 2000 miles after flash and still smooth.

[rallysquirrel]

Well I just got the flash today. Night and day difference...even after my downpipe which already made a difference.

[FishingFiend]

Got mine flashed this past weekend. So far so good!

[vader1]

Just got a call in regards to my complaint with Subaru of America.

I was told that as far as they were concerned my car is running normally. (This was according to the regional customer service rep for my area, who is based out of Denver and has never seen or driven the car) And all of you folks that talk about stutter on internet message boards are blathering idiots who are totally unreliable. (I embelished their words a little)

Looks like the problem does not exist. And the fact that they make flashes to fix the problem on certain models means nothing. You are imagining things.

*Jedi mind trick* "Your car accelerates smoothly and without hesitation."

[jmfspecb]

Thanks Vader, I thought it was my imagination all along. Phew.

[FishingFiend]

I've got to give props to Chino Subaru, I went in and they told me the reflash was available and that they would take care of it. Sad to hear it's not like that for everyone...

I'm looking for my receipt and as soon as I find it, I'll post it. It basically states a hesitation issue between 3000-4000rpm. Even though we know it's more like 2700-4000, I figured it was close enough. :)

With all the crap in the air from SoCal being on fire, I've been hesitant to really get on it. However, it feels much better and pulls more evenly now. I also switched to mobile1, so that's helping too.

[CapnJack]

^^ Excellent! Thanks for posting all the work order information. It appears that I should be calling the "part" number a "pack" number.

So, here's what we've got so far on the 07-08 reflash pack numbers:
All of these are for MT cars by the way as it appears the automatics don't have the issue.

07GT: No one has posted one yet.
07GTsB: 22611AL81C

08GT: 226UAM96B
08 GTsB: No one has posted one yet.



I found out there is a new pack number for the 07 LGT 5MT that was recently released. From what I've heard, this is only an interim fix until Subaru comes out with the final version.

07GT 5MT - 22611AL80C

[JABBER]

I took mine in about a month or so ago, they hooked it up to the computer and they said there was no reflash available...go figure.

[paycer]

oops, double post.

[paycer]

OMG, I am an idiot....

this post was extra too. My apologies.

[paycer]

So far the reflash PAK# list looks like this:

Manual Transmission Vehicles

08 LGT 5 MT ---226UAM96B
08 spec.B ---No one has posted one yet.
08 OBXT 5MT---No one has posted one yet.

07 LGT 5 MT ---22611AL80C
07 spec.B ---22611AL81C
07 OBXT 5MT ---No one has posted one yet.

Automatic Transmission Vehicles
08 LGT 5 EAT ---No one has posted one yet.
08 OBXT 5EAT---No one has posted one yet.

07 LGT 5 EAT ---No one has posted one yet.
07 OBXT 5EAT ---No one has posted one yet.



Thanks to CapnJack for the 07 GT 5MT number!

[CapnJack]

After driving the car to work today, I can honestly say that there appears to be no difference in driving from when I took it in yesterday and today after the re-flash. The studder is still there and seems like it may be worse??

[sylvainsf]

So it's been awhile since I chimed in and I just wanted to report the bad news.

2000 miles later the stutter is back just as bad as ever before.

[Fernely]

Almost 2 months and over 4000 miles still smooth as glass. I wish the rest of you could be having as much luck with it as I have had.

[vader1]

After driving the car to work today, I can honestly say that there appears to be no difference in driving from when I took it in yesterday and today after the re-flash. The studder is still there and seems like it may be worse??


Hate to revive this dead thread but you may notice something from your reflash. Mine got a little better!!!!! The problem is that I went from 25-27 mpg tanks to now struggling to get 21. I realize the cold weather has to take some of the blame, but this is 85% highway driving cruise set at about 62 to try to maximize milage and shifting at less than 3000 rpm. I am trying to drive as sedately as possible but it does nothing. My reflash runs pig rich. Not a very good use of premium gas.

I really liked the concept of what the car is supposed to be but mine is a piece of S**T.

[rallysquirrel]

vader1, I've noticed the same drop in mileage. I think an aftermarket tune will be the way to go. Increase the HP and mileage.

[Ryokosman]

Yea I've noticed that my adv went from mid 25's to mid 22's. Thank goodness the AP is coming out soon.

[Lothar]

I wonder if you guys are just seeing mileage drops because the winter gas formulation is out now? Could it just be coincidental that it's the same time you had your reflash done, or did you notice the mileage drop weeks/months ago?

[Vimy101]

^ The drop off in mileage is almost certainly due to winter gas.

[Ryokosman]

I wonder if you guys are just seeing mileage drops because the winter gas formulation is out now? Could it just be coincidental that it's the same time you had your reflash done, or did you notice the mileage drop weeks/months ago?

As posted I was one of the first that got teh reflash. I immediately went on a 1500 trip the week after and noticed the drop.

[CapnJack]

Hate to revive this dead thread but you may notice something from your reflash. Mine got a little better!!!!! The problem is that I went from 25-27 mpg tanks to now struggling to get 21. I realize the cold weather has to take some of the blame, but this is 85% highway driving cruise set at about 62 to try to maximize milage and shifting at less than 3000 rpm. I am trying to drive as sedately as possible but it does nothing. My reflash runs pig rich. Not a very good use of premium gas.

I really liked the concept of what the car is supposed to be but mine is a piece of S**T.

It did indeed get a little better, but not much. It now has about 700 miles on it since the flash, but we have had snow every other day here so I've been driving in I mode for the most part to keep the car straight.

I too noticed a mileage drop. My thought was also that it was from the change to winter gas. I was consistantly getting 27MPG and it dropped to 24-25MPG. This makes me wonder...

[Gator GT]

Alright, I'm starting to feel better about seeing lower numbers in my city driving...here I am thinking...damn, I'm not getting on the gas this much...where the heck is it going??

whew.

[dr_sharp]

I've seen no change in mileage. I don't think we get "winter" gas in Southern Texas though. I've put roughly 6k on my car since the reflash and the extreme studder is gone but the everyday jerk is still very present.

Those of you experience the REAL studder often will appreciate the reflash but anyone that wants a smooth pull from 3k to redline will be disappointed.

[rock2534]

I have noticed a slight reduction in mileage as well, but I drive mostly city, so that can be a factor of a number of things.

[vader1]

I believe we have the same formulation year round here, but I noticed my milage drop when I first got the car back from reflash in august.

I am guessing the reflash "fix" is just run the map pig rich.

After my 7th phonecall to Subaru, I actually talked to a human who returned my call. The first "senior rep" who was my case manager was never at his desk and would never return a voice mail. Anywho, his supervisor said the typical "Your car runs fine, we won't do anything."

SO I gave them offical notification that I intended to lemon law it so they will now have someone from their arbitration program conatact me. (in my state the law is very much in the consumers favor and if succesfull you get full purchase minus no more than 10% plus full tax title and license, you have to go through arbitration with the carmaker first but do not have to accept the offer) I would hope this motivate these jerkoffs to offer something because if I win a lemon law case I get more money back than the car is worth and carfax would say "LEMON!"

A friend of mine called Subaru when his new forrester died and left him on the side of the road in the cold. When the car was thawed out it never happened again and when he called Subie, they extended his powertrain to 8/80 on the spot. For me, they do not return perfectly plesant voicemails until the seventh call and FOUR MONTHS after I placed the first one.

I'd be more than happy to fix the stutter and milage with an AP, but if I have to pay $700 to make a new $30,000 car run like it should, Subaru better grab there f'ing ankles and cough up some kind of freebie fro selling me a broken car, and giving TERRIBLE customer service. I am sorry, non-existent customer service.

[vader1]

By the way, I know some people have different levels of stutter and different levels of tolerance of stutter, but I would just love it if there was a concerted effort of about 100 people pissed off about it to call the same CR rep whose number I have. If everybody started calling the same person who is at the top of the CR food chain, maybe they would recognize its a problem.

Just a thought.

[Denver133]

This past weekend I was able to get into the throttle a little bit and i have to say it is really annoying how bad this studder is! I have owned the car for 2 weeks now I am starting to get a little ticked off. I am heading to the dealership today to hopefully get an answer on the reflash. Vader, your stories of CR Reps is a concern to me and probably a preview of what will come! Ha!

[seanlsb]

I had the reflash done on my 08 spec.b and it was a world of difference. I would test it today to see if the stutter is still there if some punk kid hadn't parked his camaro in my back seat. All aboard the fail train.

[dr_sharp]

Totalled?

[seanlsb]

No. About $10k worth of damage though. On a positive note, I'm using the insurance $$ that would have been used for OEM exhaust parts to buy a borla cbe ftw. It actually would have been a win-win situation if that idiot had seriously injured himself. Seriously though, the subbie held up really well and kept us very safe for having a camaro hit her at full pace (45ish).

[dr_sharp]

Wow, that sucks. Good to know everyone was safe.

[Gator GT]

shitake mushrooms!!! seanlsb....that sucks! hope if gets fixed to your liking. ugh. just the thought of that makes me sick.

anyway...

vader, as you started saying concerted effort...I thought the next words out of your mouth were going to be: for everyone to data log. :lol:

I'm tryin', I'm tryin'!!! Stupid enginuity.

I still have somewhat of a stutter...but I don't have the time or energy to futz around with it. I'm bypassing stage 1 and 2 and going straight to 3 at somepoint this summer. That should obliterate any hesitation I have. :lol:

[stewartg]

I've seen no change in mileage. I don't think we get "winter" gas in Southern Texas though. I've put roughly 6k on my car since the reflash and the extreme studder is gone but the everyday jerk is still very present.

Those of you experience the REAL studder often will appreciate the reflash but anyone that wants a smooth pull from 3k to redline will be disappointed.My sentiments exactly. Also have not noticed decreased mileage, but I drive the car pretty hard on the rare occasions I drive it.

[stewartg]

By the way, I know some people have different levels of stutter and different levels of tolerance of stutter, but I would just love it if there was a concerted effort of about 100 people pissed off about it to call the same CR rep whose number I have. If everybody started calling the same person who is at the top of the CR food chain, maybe they would recognize its a problem.

Just a thought.That was my idea behind the stutter petition (http://www.kristys.net/stewart/stutter/) and my idea of all emailing soa regularly. I only have 55 petition entries and noone seemed up to the task of emailing soa.

[stewartg]

No. About $10k worth of damage though. On a positive note, I'm using the insurance $$ that would have been used for OEM exhaust parts to buy a borla cbe ftw. It actually would have been a win-win situation if that idiot had seriously injured himself. Seriously though, the subbie held up really well and kept us very safe for having a camaro hit her at full pace (45ish).Glad everyone was ok and insurance is taking care of you. Would have been very nice if he hurt himself, if it were me I would have bruised him up nicely.

My Impreza was just hit and run in a parking lot 3 weeks ago and it took 2 weeks of battling with the insurance (even with two witnesses) to get them to accept fault. I had to file complaints with the BBB and state insurance department on their failure to conduct a proper investigation. Funny though, that I got a letter in the mail telling me they "respectfully decline fault" 3 days AFTER I got a check from them. :lol:

[rallysquirrel]

off topic

stewartg what insurance ?

\off topic

[stewartg]

Offtopic
Farmers...
My insurance (USAA) would have had no problem paying for the damages if I payed my deductible. Then they would do their own investigation and go after Farmers to get my dough back. But in the 4+ years I have been with them I have not had a single traffic ticket or claim. I didn't want to waste my get outta **** free card so easily.
/Offtopic

[seanlsb]

That's not a get out of jail free card - it's just called subrogation. It's part of the services that your insurance carrier should provide to you. Presuming the findings of your insurance company are supportable (proper evidence/witnesses) and it would be irrefutable by the adversary insurance, they would just offer you the service of pursuing the money. It's part of what you pay them to do. You would get your deductible back, by the way.

[zeroryde]

sorry guys, I'm new to this, just picked up my 08 LGT last wednesday, has 250 miles on it so far... I don't "feel" the stutter but sometimes the low end is lacking... I just thought it was turbo lag... as it picks up after 4,000

Should I get a reflash done, even if i don't think i feel it?

[Lothar]

sorry guys, I'm new to this, just picked up my 08 LGT last wednesday, has 250 miles on it so far... I don't "feel" the stutter but sometimes the low end is lacking... I just thought it was turbo lag... as it picks up after 4,000

Should I get a reflash done, even if i don't think i feel it?

I wouldn't get the reflash unless you're definitely experiencing the stutter. What you're describing isn't the stutter... it just sounds to me like the turbo kicking in the way it's supposed to.

[zeroryde]

I wouldn't get the reflash unless you're definitely experiencing the stutter. What you're describing isn't the stutter... it just sounds to me like the turbo kicking in the way it's supposed to.

ok thanks guys, I just it doesn't happen to me, cause so far the car seems fine. I'm gonna get the AP when it comes out later on maybe in january after I break in my car anyway

[jp928]

Does the reflash have a reference no, software version code, anything to identify it please? I am close to getting an 08 Spec B, and I want to be able to ram it to the dealer beforehand that I know this sh!t can occur, and ask what level of software the ecu is coming with....
thanks
jp

[CapnJack]

I found out there is a new pack number for the 07 LGT 5MT that was recently released. From what I've heard, this is only an interim fix until Subaru comes out with the final version.

07GT 5MT - 22611AL80C


Got another flash again today that is an update from the interim I posted earlier. They did not put a pack number on my slip. I will have to contact the dealer to see if they will divulge it.

So far everything feels good. Stutter free... (knock on wood)

If you take your car in, be prepared to wait for an hour. Subaru has stated the car's battery must be charged for 45 minutes prior to the update being loaded.

[Carter]

Got another flash again today that is an update from the interim I posted earlier. They did not put a pack number on my slip. I will have to contact the dealer to see if they will divulge it.

So far everything feels good. Stutter free... (knock on wood)

If you take your car in, be prepared to wait for an hour. Subaru has stated the car's battery must be charged for 45 minutes prior to the update being loaded.


If SOA didnt give us crappy batteries that wouldnt be necessary.:rolleyes:

[stewartg]

If SOA didnt give us crappy batteries that wouldnt be necessary.:rolleyes:Always the optimist. :) Do you still have your car? What is the latest with the lemon?

[Neurodancer]

Always the optimist. :) Do you still have your car? What is the latest with the lemon?

Oh noez! Here we go again! :eek::rolleyes:

:lol:

[Carter]

No complaints as of right now, kind of :) . I had my radio replaced and alternator diagnosed. They did a botch job putting it back together. Panels don't align and mt intercooler fins a bent. I'm actually going to see them this morning because they want to see me.

[dr_sharp]

Intercooler fins are easily bent even with just rocks/etc. being thrown into the scoop under normal driving conditions. I think it still warrants a complaint though if you're sure that they caused it.

[Carter]

I know it wasn't there before. I've been under my hood everyday checking the battery/alternator. Its a perfect diagonal "dent" about 3/4 of an inch. I went in and the manager looked at everything. They want me to drop it off next week and I'll say I'm a little reluctant to do so. These things are minor and I can fix 2 out of the 3 screw ups. The third one requires the whole center console to be removed and I'm not up to that task. I have pics of the damage I will post when I get home.

[stewartg]

center console is cake to take out, you can get a trim kit for like $5 or just tape a flat-head. unclip it in the right spots and everything slides right out. check the audio forums for more detail, nothing difficult there.

[Gator GT]

center console is cake to take out, you can get a trim kit for like $5 or just tape a flat-head. unclip it in the right spots and everything slides right out. check the audio forums for more detail, nothing difficult there.

yeah. save yourself some future heartache. do it yourself. t'ain't hard.

[dr_sharp]

center console is cake to take out, you can get a trim kit for like $5 or just tape a flat-head. unclip it in the right spots and everything slides right out. check the audio forums for more detail, nothing difficult there.
I don't mean to be lazy but could you link the threads you speak of? I'm just trying to find spec.B specific threads for my video cable... thanks :)

[stewartg]

I never looked at any threads, so im not sure. If I remember correctly, there is 3 points on the top and two on the bottom. They are very easy to feel. Once you get the top ones loose, stick some cardboard or another trim puller in there to stop it from clipping back in while you work the bottom ones. When they are all loose it pulls right out and then there are two screws holding the screen to the bracket. You need to pull the screen back and angle it slightly so you can disconnect the two wiring harnesses. Plug a video cable in and either run it straight over to the glove box or down behind the center console and tuck it under the shifter (you can remove that, but it is much more difficult). Before you put everything back, turn the car on and press the info button twice. If the screen is black the cable is working. Very carefully put everything back, but before you tighten it down, again make sure the screen is functioning. If you use a heavy duty video cable it will come disconnected when you put the unit back in. So unfortunately you will need to use a cheaper 18awg cable with crappy shielding if you want it to stay without cutting. To enable video output while driving, you will need to clip a cable back there. If i remember correctly it is the gray cable. I have the link at home so I can pm you later, or you can search.

I was afraid of scratching or breaking trim pieces, but its just one of those things that once you get to doing it, it is simple and harmless. I've had mine off a few times now (cause I used lower awg cable and kept loosing signal), and it takes less than 5 minutes to take it all apart, fix the cable and put it back.

Anyhow, this is a ecu related thread. Might want to search or ask in the audio/video forum so we can stay on topic. I will pm you the link tonight when I get home.

[SilvrFyre]

I think that the hesitation might be caused by normal shifting patterns. Most people during everyday driving will upshift between 3k and 4k rpms, so the computer picks that up and thinks that you are going to shift, so it cuts power. It sounds to me like disconnecting the battery "resets" the ECU temporarilly removing the hesitation issues until the car relearns your driving habits.

Seeing as how everyone who goes in to get the "flash" done comes out happy for the first few hundred miles but then it comes back, and some people are more permanently fixed, I would wager that some of the dealers aren't reflashing anything, just disconnecting the battery (or in some cases charging it for 45 minutes) thereby resetting the ECU.

I think that if you have had the "reflash" done and had the hesitation come back, that you should go back to the dealer and have it done again and watch them do it. The battery should never have to be disconnected because the ECU needs power to have it's programming changed.

Has anyone had the hesitation come back who watched the dealer install the new map?