View Full Version : TDC Stage 2 Logs
Well I finally data logged my 5eat after being stage 2 for a few months. Here is a little background
I have the AP 2005.5 which really messes things up. If any of you know, the 2005.5 AP has a hard time reading the real time maps. I was only hitting 14 or less lbs of boost because it was only reading the base map.
After flashing real time after real time Jon finally just made a base map with everything on it. Yay I was finally hitting a tad over 17 psi!
Today, after datalogging I could not break 17 at all. 75 degrees, 47% humidity (I thought the low boost it could be the warm weather, but T0ad said he was hitting 17.8 in the same weather.)
I have attached 3 logs.
The first 1 is stage 2 Idle (vac looks to be -9.2, from what I have learned that seems to be ok)<---Potentially a small leak.
The second log is stage 2 2000 rpm-6400 rpm
I also attached a data log from my tdc stage one tune from back in October.
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/starler/New%20Logs/http://filebox.vt.edu/users/starler/New%20Logs/
Thank you in advance for any comments or opinions on my logs :)
2005garnetGT
03-27-2007, 05:18 PM
in log 2 at 5500rpms there was a knock event; the KC dropped from 6-4 in one cycle, which usually indicates knock.
the flow numbers are also a little low, but that might just be the heat.
what elevation are you at?
mickeyd2005
03-27-2007, 05:20 PM
Are you still using winter gas in your area?
Is your IAM still 1?
Can you post your AFR learning? It should be constant during a WOT run.
For future logs, you don't need to log lambda or rear defogger switch. I no longer log engine load either since you can calculate it using MAF. Up to you.
Just about every 5EAT log that I have seen from TDC seems to knock during the winter. When was the last update that you received from him? He may have figured out the problem so you should contact TDC for an update... or maybe use the Cobb OTS during winter in the meantime.
mickeyd2005
03-27-2007, 05:22 PM
Isn't there knock at 3280 rpm and 3462 rpm as well? The rpm kind of stalls and the ignition timing and KC both drop by 2.
2005garnetGT
03-27-2007, 05:41 PM
yeah, I just noticed that.
again, I don't know what the max KC values are so its hard to tell, but it does look like its knocking, running okay, then pulling more timing towards the end
I was going up a slight hill in the beginning of the log, could that affect the knock and timing?
I have some logs from 2k rpm to around 80mph on a flatter portion of the road.
And also a 3k to around 90 mph
I'll post them later*
in log 2 at 5500rpms there was a knock event; the KC dropped from 6-4 in one cycle, which usually indicates knock.
the flow numbers are also a little low, but that might just be the heat.
what elevation are you at?
2000 ft. above sea level
edmundu
03-27-2007, 06:45 PM
Judging by the IAT's, you had a bit of heatsoak to start....Just to confirm you are running the stock airbox, right?
If so, then the pulled timing is mostly to do with the heated engine bay, which put a little heat into the IC, coupled with an uphill pull, spells pulled timing. The actual timing values being called for aren't that high, so the only reasonable explanation is heat. IT could also be a little weaker gas, but I'm thinkin' it was just simple heat.
Drive for a bit at hwy speeds, then pull another log, and I think you will see that you are good;)
Not that you wanted to hear it, but you know alky injection alleviates all these symptoms:)
Judging by the IAT's, you had a bit of heatsoak to start....Just to confirm you are running the stock airbox, right?
If so, then the pulled timing is mostly to do with the heated engine bay, which put a little heat into the IC, coupled with an uphill pull, spells pulled timing. The actual timing values being called for aren't that high, so the only reasonable explanation is heat. IT could also be a little weaker gas, but I'm thinkin' it was just simple heat.
Drive for a bit at hwy speeds, then pull another log, and I think you will see that you are good;)
Not that you wanted to hear it, but you know alky injection alleviates all these symptoms:)
Edmundu,
how does my vac look at idle, no leaks?
My Only mods are up/dp. Stock airbox (minus the silencer :)
It probably was heat soak because I had just made a pull down the road, then turned around and did the same thing but at a slight elevation. I will post my very first run which was 2k- 80 mph
The boost still seems a little low to me though:rolleyes:
I'd like to see consistent 17.5 psi even in this weather.
2005garnetGT
03-27-2007, 07:31 PM
the elevation explains both the low boost and the low flow numbers, imo.
the elevation explains both the low boost and the low flow numbers, imo.
Yeah I should have factored that in beforehand.
Like I said I will post my first log (very flat road) to see if there is any knock.
boostsr20
03-27-2007, 09:33 PM
in log 2 at 5500rpms there was a knock event; the KC dropped from 6-4 in one cycle, which usually indicates knock.
the flow numbers are also a little low, but that might just be the heat.
what elevation are you at?
Do you think this could possibly be related to the TC lock up that autos get at 5500 RPMS?
2005garnetGT
03-27-2007, 09:34 PM
no, and afaik, the TC lockup isn't at 5500rpms, its gear and load based.
boostsr20
03-27-2007, 09:40 PM
Uh.... Mine locks up at exactly 5500RPM's on WOT runs. Mostly noticeable in 3rd and 4th gear.
2005garnetGT
03-27-2007, 09:41 PM
mine doesn't..
its usually locked up in sport mode as low as 3500, right past the stall point, but depending on load
boostsr20
03-27-2007, 09:50 PM
Maybe I'm calling it the wrong thing but thats what I've seen numerous people explain my situation as. Basically the car pulls well until 5500 where it hesitates for half a second and the revs stop increasing, then it starts to rev again and pulls even harder until redline.
2005garnetGT
03-27-2007, 09:56 PM
maybe, I don't notice any hesitation at 5500rpms
and I REALLY don't notice it pulling harder after 5500rpms....
are you on the stock turbo?
enthusiast
03-27-2007, 10:17 PM
Off topic, how did you figure out that the realtime map was not being seen? Was it boost levels and such? Also, how do you know if you have 2005.5.
I am asking because I have lower than expected boost when I have data logged.
thanks
boostsr20
03-28-2007, 08:31 AM
maybe, I don't notice any hesitation at 5500rpms
and I REALLY don't notice it pulling harder after 5500rpms....
are you on the stock turbo?
Stock turbo, Stage 2. Maybe I'll try to get a vid.
Off topic, how did you figure out that the realtime map was not being seen? Was it boost levels and such? Also, how do you know if you have 2005.5.
I am asking because I have lower than expected boost when I have data logged.
thanks
The reason my boost is a little low is because I am 2000 feet above sea level.
The knock and weird timing is due to it being my last run (heat soak) and I was a a decent size incline on the beginning of the run.
EDIT: I have added my very first run to the menu which is 2k to around 80 mph. (there should be a little less heat soak)
edmundu
03-28-2007, 10:05 AM
I looked at that log, and for your elevation, with the timing you are running, the boost is a bit much. You have close to 90% wg duty, so you are pushing the turbo hard to keep that boost, especially in the warmer air.
I would suggest to have the boost backed down a bit, and a touch of timing taken out(for safety net). But I think if just the boost were backed off of, it would help with not heatsoaking the IC so much. Being that you have mentioned being at 2k asl 50% of the time, and then only 186 asl the other half, you should have your tuner add in barometric compensation. It would allow you to keep your boost/timing as is for sea level elevation, yet when going into the mountains/elevation, it will automatically adjust to back off the timing/boost.
The altitude combined with the warmer, less dense air, are making the little vf40 work too hard to maintain the boost called for.
The altitude combined with the warmer, less dense air, are making the little vf40 work too hard to maintain the boost called for.
Would there be a way to have a happy medium between my two locations, without sacrificing too much power?
2005garnetGT
03-28-2007, 02:50 PM
yeah, have your tuner dial in the atmoshperic WGDC compensation tables for you.
yeah, have your tuner dial in the atmoshperic WGDC compensation tables for you.
Sounds good.
Thanks for everybody's help!
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Is there any good sites that explain all the parameters that are important when making (and adjusting) a good tune? I'd like to learn a little more :)
Anyone want to take a look at my last run. Probably a little bit more heat soak but its posted up anyhow. 3k- 90 mph
edmundu
03-30-2007, 11:25 AM
It's not optimal, but if that has some heatsoak on the IC, then your tune is pretty good. It could use a tweak, but nothing that is needed immediately or impending engine damage will occur.
Logs have to be interpreted with alot of finesse, knowledge of engine combo, and hosts of other variables. It is not a simple black & white picture, there is a lot of grey area. This is why having a tuner that knows what he/she is doing is invaluable. And to that end, consistent logging, and accurate recording of weather and run conditions is vital in giving a true assessment of any tune.
mickeyd2005
03-30-2007, 11:37 AM
The knock isn't that bad, but in your latest log, I wonder if the timing being pulled in the 5000 rpm range doesn't have something to do with the torque converter locking up. Notice that the rpm actually drops from 5057 to 5033 rpm.
I plotted rpm versus mph and it looks like the torque converter is trying to lock up between 5000 and 5500 rpm. Above 5500 rpm, the relationship is linear.
Just thinking out loud.
2005garnetGT
03-30-2007, 12:23 PM
very possible.
the TC locking up should increase load slightly as it gets dragged down to input shaft speed.
we need to figure out the TC lockup mod so we can force lockup lower.
It's not optimal, but if that has some heatsoak on the IC, then your tune is pretty good. It could use a tweak, but nothing that is needed immediately or impending engine damage will occur.
Logs have to be interpreted with alot of finesse, knowledge of engine combo, and hosts of other variables. It is not a simple black & white picture, there is a lot of grey area. This is why having a tuner that knows what he/she is doing is invaluable. And to that end, consistent logging, and accurate recording of weather and run conditions is vital in giving a true assessment of any tune.
Thanks for all the insight guys. I value all of your comments :)
Yes the last run probably does have the most heat soak. It was literally a few seconds after the 2k-90 mph run.
The knock isn't that bad, but in your latest log, I wonder if the timing being pulled in the 5000 rpm range doesn't have something to do with the torque converter locking up. Notice that the rpm actually drops from 5057 to 5033 rpm.
I plotted rpm versus mph and it looks like the torque converter is trying to lock up between 5000 and 5500 rpm. Above 5500 rpm, the relationship is linear.
Just thinking out loud.
EDIT: Just checked, and all most all of my logs(stage one and 2) the rpm's dip then increase anywhere from 4800-5000 rpm.
I'm assuming if we could locked the TC the 5eats would be a little faster.