Accessport for 07 update

[mand3j]

Trey at Cobb replied to my request for updated info on the Accessport for 07 legacy gt. Here is his reply....


The 07 Legacy models require a completely different hardware design to interface with the vehicle (CAN). This new hardware is in the testing phase, but not at a point where we're pulled the trigger for full scale production.

Due to lead time from electronics suppliers, I would think even end of 1st quarter would be a push. Most realistic will be sometime in the 2nd quarter.

Had the 07 Legacy used the same communication standard as 05-06, this delay would not exist. There are no extra difficulties in reprogramming the ECU due to the SI-Drive. It in itself it relatively simplistic in operation. The delay is simply due to Subaru moving to CAN on just that car for this year.

Cheers,
Trey @ COBB

[mickeyd2005]

Interesting.

The wiring diagram seems to imply that the ISO9141-2 wire is still in the OBDII connector even though high speed CAN has been implemented. The 2007 STi guys have been able to use the tactrix cable to flash their ROMs using the ISO9141-2 wire. I was under the impression that they have CAN implemented as well.

It will definitely be cool to be able to do a high speed flash.

[Infymus]

So, regarding Cobb's track record of "when it will be done", we should see these sometime in late 2008? Maybe 2009? lol

[KA81]

So, regarding Cobb's track record of "when it will be done", we should see these sometime in late 2008? Maybe 2009? lol


i thought 2nd quarter meant may-august of '07 :icon_conf

[mickeyd2005]

I just realized that my friend's son works as a programmer for Cobb.


http://www.cultofthejedi.com/funforum/images/smilies/run.gif

[sirsimon]

Bummer. The waiting, as they say, is *indeed* the hardest part. Now all my friends will laugh at me. Oh, wait...I *have* no friends. Yes!! ;)

[Italian32984]

Im sure because these are such a wanted and needed item to tune, that they will be out this year like they say. Im guessing second quarter does mean sometime in the summer.

Chris

[speeddr7]

F%$K!!!!! I bet I will end up in September, if we are lucky. Only our car is this different. So the 07 STI doesent have this problem? What a bummer.

[SWP-LegacyGT]

Bummer. The waiting, as they say, is *indeed* the hardest part. Now all my friends will laugh at me. Oh, wait...I *have* no friends. Yes!! ;)
naw your friend is your Spec B. ;)

[mickeyd2005]

F%$K!!!!! I bet I will end up in September, if we are lucky. Only our car is this different. So the 07 STI doesent have this problem? What a bummer.

That's not quite what I said.

I said that the 2007 STi can be flashed with a TACTRIX cable which uses the ISO9141-2 wire in the OBDII connector.

I don't believe Cobb officially sells a AP 2.0 for 2007 STi.

http://www.cobbtuning.com/products/?id=2225

[speeddr7]

So has anyone tried this TACTRIX cable method yet? Wonder if it would work, and how the SI-drive would work(or not).

[2005garnetGT]

the tactrix cable won't communicate with the 07 ecu, afaik.

it does seem odd they don't allow SSM2 backwards compatibility, but whatever.

[androofoo]

si drive isnt an issue for the future in terms of tuning right?

[sirsimon]

The quote from Trey @ Cobb (top of the thread) said:

"There are no extra difficulties in reprogramming the ECU due to the SI-Drive. It in itself it relatively simplistic in operation. The delay is simply due to Subaru moving to CAN on just that car for this year."

So, it sound like it is mainly due to the new protocol in use.

And you are right, SWP-LegacyGT, my SpecB is my friend! :)

[Infamous1]

Big reason why I got the 06 over the 07.

[Italian32984]

Yeah, when these AP come out, the 08 legacy will be out by then too, wonder if they are going to run on the CAN also. If not, then cobb will have two AP coming out at same time,lol.

Chris

[02BlkRex]

Big reason why I got the 06 over the 07.

Yeah, but how sweet will it be when the '07 guys can switch maps using the SI-Drive knob? The wait will be worth it IMHO.

[Italian32984]

Yeah, but how sweet will it be when the '07 guys can switch maps using the SI-Drive knob? The wait will be worth it IMHO.


AGREE!

[Gitster]

iN.

[f1anatic]

Yeah, but how sweet will it be when the '07 guys can switch maps using the SI-Drive knob? The wait will be worth it IMHO.


Not gonna happen. What the SI Drive does will not allow you to change a real-time map. I bet it will become non-functional if and when the 07-AP comes out.

[Dong Homez]

Not gonna happen. What the SI Drive does will not allow you to change a real-time map. I bet it will become non-functional if and when the 07-AP comes out.

I hope SI Drive remains functinal. I love playing with my knob.:lol:

[Italian32984]

Not gonna happen. What the SI Drive does will not allow you to change a real-time map. I bet it will become non-functional if and when the 07-AP comes out.


I have a feeling it will be functional, the guy who did that utec for tuning was still able to use his SI drive. I think it will be functional, not just they way people hope. Im sure it will keep its same function, especially since in sport sharp mode it helps the car hold gears, that woul dbe dumb for it to be non functional anymore.

Chris

[2005garnetGT]

I don't think SI-drive is complicated enough to allow real-time map switching like you guys think it can.


I don't even know if theres enough room in the RAM to have more then one set of maps.

[Touge Tuning]

It would be sweet to have map switching but I think it will be limited to changing the throttle ramp rate and amount the throttle opens with the pedal to the floor. They should be able to allow us to modify that which will be great.

[LGT Dave]

From the comment from Cobb about SI Drive being very simple and some other threads around here, it doesn't look like changing modes does much other than change the throttle programming. That also means there probably won't be any real map switching like 2005garnetGT and Stealth1 suggested above. This info from when AVO and Rallitek were dynoing an '07 SpecB is interesting (found here - http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46379):

Intelligent mode has a definite slowing effect on the car. That is easy enough to tell by the seat of your pants, but it was nice to have confirmation. Maximum boost reached was 9 psi, well under the normal boost levels. Which explained why the power was well under max figures at 159 hp at the wheel. Next up was the normal Sport mode. Normal Sport mode was a surprise, as it also showed the best graph of all modes.

I had suspected this. When I attended the first Spec B briefing in Japan, buried in all the facts and figures was the graphs for the throttle response behavior of each mode. Intelligent mode was locked down to a maximum throttle opening of 40%, a large reason for the gas savings. Sports Sharp mode felt livelier because they increased the ramp-up rate of throttle response. What that means is that by the time the actual gas pedal has reached about 50-60%, the throttle is opened to 98%. However, it does not go beyond 98%! The only mode where it does is the normal Sports mode, which was shown on the dyno. Sports mode showed the highest figures, 214whp vs 208whp in Sports Sharp mode. It reached these figures at 15.8psi of boost, vs. 15.5psi in Sports Sharp.

I find it really odd that you can never have 100% throttle in S# mode. Maybe that's something that could be fixed with a new throttle map.

[edkwon]

oh well, just have to sit back an wait, gives me a reason not to spend more money on power mods right now anyway.

Ed

[Reverend]

All it would really take to make the SI-Drive knob to work as a map switcher is to rewire it, so long as the functionality were built into the AP reflash. However, it would be even cooler for me to be able to watch some realtime gauging from the nav screen (on equipped models).

[Reverend]

Bump for update.... I want this thing like YESTERDAY. lol

[Prime Power]

Subscribed

[rudy]

Waiting for this as well. Putting summer tires on the car in a month, first oil change is coming up - everything is broken in and ready for more HP.

[speeddr7]

I am dieing for it as well.

[f1anatic]

Well...what if Cobb forgoes the 07 GTs and goes on to work on the 08s ? How cool would that be :-) The car that never went faster - the 07 GTs...

In all honesty...you are not gonna switch maps with that SI-Drive button. At most, the usage will stay the same...control the throttle map.

[02BlkRex]

Well...what if Cobb forgoes the 07 GTs and goes on to work on the 08s ? How cool would that be :-) The car that never went faster - the 07 GTs...

In all honesty...you are not gonna switch maps with that SI-Drive button. At most, the usage will stay the same...control the throttle map.

Hasn't Cobb said from the beginning that they were trying to incorporate the SI-Drive? Do you work for Cobb?

BTW, if we don't get the AP like you say, we can still flash via other options out there and you will still NEVER get the fold down rear seats! HAHA!! :icon_mrgr

[edkwon]

Well...what if Cobb forgoes the 07 GTs and goes on to work on the 08s ? How cool would that be :-) The car that never went faster - the 07 GTs...

In all honesty...you are not gonna switch maps with that SI-Drive button. At most, the usage will stay the same...control the throttle map.

why are you trying to pick a fight with the 07 owners, grow up.

[2005garnetGT]

actually, you can't flash with other methods.
there is NO reflash by anyone for the 07s yet.

Hasn't Cobb said from the beginning that they were trying to incorporate the SI-Drive? Do you work for Cobb?

SI-Drive is a LOT simpler then you think it is.

it switches between three throttle maps, and activates sportshift on the 5EATs.


BTW, if we don't get the AP like you say, we can still flash via other options out there and you will still NEVER get the fold down rear seats! HAHA!! :icon_mrgr

[02BlkRex]

actually, you can't flash with other methods.
there is NO reflash by anyone for the 07s yet.

SI-Drive is a LOT simpler then you think it is.

it switches between three throttle maps, and activates sportshift on the 5EATs.

What about the OpenECU I've been hearing a little about? It may not be as good as the AP from the start but it is free (after you have the cable) and you can edit your own maps. And other flashes are coming. Sorry the '07s aren't 3 years old now and the aftermarket community hasn't had time to develop stuff for the new technology yet.

I understand that SI-Drive is simple and it only changes throttle response and limits boost in I mode. On the 5MT, I personally think it sucks and doesn't do a whole lot. I believe Cobb said that SI-Drive may be disabled but the infamous knob could be used to switch maps without dicking with the AP. That is cool and I would be happy as a pig in sh*t if that is all that happens.

I don't understand why some of you guys are so down on the '07s. It is more car in my opinion. No cat in the uppipe to replace, fold down rear seats, mp3 player stock, and oh yeah, the SI-Drive that is going on every turboed Subaru from here on out. I made that last part up but it may be true...:icon_bigg

[AKLGT]

the 07 imo, is a great vehicle. however, i wouldn't say the SI drive is that great. sport sharp is basicly what our sport mode is for 05. i do, however, feel that rear fold down seats, catless uppipe, and larger wastegate in the turbo are better. ;) i would love to have the 07 spec B as I want a 6MT badly. however, for my daily driving, i admit it's nice to not deal w/ the shifting and clutch in the city (mostly what i do). but you never know... :) i'm interested to see what happens for 08 spec b. we'd better be getting one!

[turntable]

dammit. i want an AP.


and also i need my old ap un-married so i can sell it :( (cant get to the car anymore to do this)

[Reverend]

The debate shouldn't be about enabling the SI-Drive selector as a map switcher -- its about getting the damn AP up and running for these cars so that I can tune this bitch.

[Scooter]

i need my old ap un-married so i can sell it :( (cant get to the car anymore to do this)

I thought I saw in another thread that Cobb could help you out with this, as long as you could prove your original car is toast. Not sure if there'd be a fee associated with that service, but you might want to call them.

[2005garnetGT]

What about the OpenECU I've been hearing a little about? It may not be as good as the AP from the start but it is free (after you have the cable) and you can edit your own maps. And other flashes are coming. Sorry the '07s aren't 3 years old now and the aftermarket community hasn't had time to develop stuff for the new technology yet.

I understand that SI-Drive is simple and it only changes throttle response and limits boost in I mode. On the 5MT, I personally think it sucks and doesn't do a whole lot. I believe Cobb said that SI-Drive may be disabled but the infamous knob could be used to switch maps without dicking with the AP. That is cool and I would be happy as a pig in sh*t if that is all that happens.

I don't understand why some of you guys are so down on the '07s. It is more car in my opinion. No cat in the uppipe to replace, fold down rear seats, mp3 player stock, and oh yeah, the SI-Drive that is going on every turboed Subaru from here on out. I made that last part up but it may be true...:icon_bigg
what about it? colby hasn't done anything with ecuflash since the summer, and the next flash kernel he is/was working on was for H8/500 support, not CAN bus flashing.



(and I was one of the first, if not the first person to flash a USDM LGT with ecuflash. You kids today with your checksum fix checkboxes... back in my day, you had to fix the checksum by hand! with a hex editor! uphill both ways! :lol:)

[f1anatic]

I understand that SI-Drive is simple and it only changes throttle response and limits boost in I mode. On the 5MT, I personally think it sucks and doesn't do a whole lot. I believe Cobb said that SI-Drive may be disabled but the infamous knob could be used to switch maps without dicking with the AP. That is cool and I would be happy as a pig in sh*t if that is all that happens.



It is a GREAT car and I want an 07 Spec B like nothing else.

But the reason some of us with 05s talk in your thread is because you guys think so highly of the SI drive button. At least this is my reason. It is a nice little gimmick. Which will change the throttle position angle. But that is it. It cannot switch maps. What you guys want it to do is dependent on the ECU having memory for 3 real time maps. Which so far, my understanding is that is has room for 3 TPS maps. Which is a different business. Switching maps thru that little button would mean either the ECU is way smarter and has more memory or you keep the AP plugged in the OBD-2 port...which denies any coolness of the SI-Drive button - even if you DO change maps flipping it...but as long as the AP is connected to the car...it is no different than what we (05,06) do already.

The other thing to keep in mind is that Cobb started looking at this v2 for the AP before these new SI-Drive buttons came out. From what I understand, Cobb is putting out 2 APv2 models ... the ones for the 2L engines and the ones for the 2.5L engine. Perhaps he wanted to avoid making year specific and car specific APs (just like it was the case with v1 for Baja, Forester, Impreza, Legacy, STi for all these years 2002-2006). Are the other Subarus getting the SI-Drive button ? Is the new Impreza getting it ? Or the Forester ? Probably it makes less sense to work into the APv2 a feature found on just one of the models (Legacy)...and between this and making an APv2 good for ALL 2.5L engines but lose specific functionalities that could be implemented...I am sure Cobb is gonna choose the later.

By the way...do you know how long it took between v.1.15 and v.1.16 maps for the 05 GTs to be developed ? Almost a year.

No...from what I hear, the OPEN ECU deal is not gonna work on the 07 GTs. Not for now. And the way it limits the boost ...is not thru an actual real time map but thru the TPS maps: basically stepping on the throttle all the way to the floor will only open your throttle 40% 50% whatever that is...which translates into...lower boost. It does not control boost the way a real time map would. At least that is MY understanding which may be flawed.

Good luck and I really hope Cobb will issue the AP sooner. We all want to see what mad power the Spec Bs can have...
Even I am thinking sometimes that I should trade it in.

[Seth1784]

cool stuff, wonder if the auto transmission and how it acts is giving them fits.

[2005garnetGT]

since the trans is the same as the 05/06s, I'd say it isn't.

[Seth1784]

shweet! that's what im liking to hear lol! id be sad if it was to where it would slow everything else up.

[turntable]

i dont give a flying f*** about si-drive or the knob switching maps i just needs me some more POWA!


:lol:

[VTsullyman]

+1 Amen dude, amen.

[edkwon]

I agree with turntable

People really need to stop getting hung up on pros/cons of the SI drive. It's there, its a gimmick, it does stuff, but it doesnt make an earth shattering difference in the driving experience of the car. It has some utility but not having it does not make the car worse. I use it but if i didn't have it, i dont think i'd be depressed and cry myself to sleep every night for lack of SI Drive.

TO THOSE PPL HUNG UP ON DEBATING THE PROS/CONS of SI drive WHEN IT COMES TO 07 ACCESSPORT TUNING, PLEASE STOP!!! it's a waste of space on this thread and mostly irrelevant to the topic at hand. we all just want more power.

Ed

[Touge Tuning]

05/06 guys are just mad cause they dont have fold down rear seats :P

[sirsimon]

I agree with turntable

People really need to stop getting hung up on pros/cons of the SI drive. It's there, its a gimmick, it does stuff, but it doesnt make an earth shattering difference in the driving experience of the car. It has some utility but not having it does not make the car worse. I use it but if i didn't have it, i dont think i'd be depressed and cry myself to sleep every night for lack of SI Drive.

TO THOSE PPL HUNG UP ON DEBATING THE PROS/CONS of SI drive WHEN IT COMES TO 07 ACCESSPORT TUNING, PLEASE STOP!!! it's a waste of space on this thread and mostly irrelevant to the topic at hand. we all just want more power.

Ed

^ Thanks, Ed. :)

[fweasel]

07 guys are just mad cause their cars are slow4r
fixed, you're welcome.:icon_bigg

[edkwon]

I just hate when ppl veer wildly offtopic with irrelevant debates, i tend to smack ppl like that in a real life conversation. SI Drive and 07 accessport ETA are two separate issues that are only marginally related.

Ed

[turntable]

^

http://racingsouthwest.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/foxsays.gif


:lol:

[02BlkRex]

I just hate when ppl veer wildly offtopic with irrelevant debates, i tend to smack ppl like that in a real life conversation. SI Drive and 07 accessport ETA are two separate issues that are only marginally related.

Ed

what do you mean they are only marginally related? I thought that is the whole issue with the 07's not having an AP?!

And how is this thread "veering wildly offtopic with irrelevant debates"? Did you notice the title?

[2005garnetGT]

yeah, and the whole SI drive discussion is veering wildly offtopic and is irrelevant.


I think thats what hes talking about.

[Prime Power]

I don't see how it is off topic. They are related. We would like to know how the accessport for the 07's will react with the si drive. Yes you can't switch mapping, but will it still be able to change the throttle control and shift program for the 5eats? I feel they are legit questions.

[edkwon]

what do you mean they are only marginally related? I thought that is the whole issue with the 07's not having an AP?!


Fine then explain to me the original post


The 07 Legacy models require a completely different hardware design to interface with the vehicle (CAN). This new hardware is in the testing phase, but not at a point where we're pulled the trigger for full scale production.

Due to lead time from electronics suppliers, I would think even end of 1st quarter would be a push. Most realistic will be sometime in the 2nd quarter.

Had the 07 Legacy used the same communication standard as 05-06, this delay would not exist. There are no extra difficulties in reprogramming the ECU due to the SI-Drive. It in itself it relatively simplistic in operation. The delay is simply due to Subaru moving to CAN on just that car for this year.


Please read the stuff in bold, am i misunderstanding the content of the first post of this thread?

If I am incorrect, please correct me. And im looking at the title of the thread:

'Accessport for 07 update'

i apoligize, i didn;t realize that mean 'SI drive - discuss pros and cons'

[02BlkRex]

Fine then explain to me the original post



Please read the stuff in bold, am i misunderstanding the content of the first post of this thread?

If I am incorrect, please correct me. And im looking at the title of the thread:

'Accessport for 07 update'

i apoligize, i didn;t realize that mean 'SI drive - discuss pros and cons'

I believe that Cobb is still working on integrating the AP w/ SI Drive - somehow. I sure as hell don't know how that is going to pan out and neither does anyone else at this point, possibly even Cobb.

I'm not discussing the pros and cons of SI Drive, I could care less. I'm not defending it and I'm not trashing it really. It is just "there" for me. I couldn't care one way or the other - I JUST WANT TO GO TO STAGE 2!!

I still think that discussing how the AP is or isn't going to integrate with SI Drive is on topic in this thread. SI Drive = '07 = AP for '07

[Codean]

People really have to think about how having the SI drive knob would help out by switching maps... there are no good reasons.

[STIJibz]

I just hate when ppl veer wildly offtopic with irrelevant debates, i tend to smack ppl like that in a real life conversation. SI Drive and 07 accessport ETA are two separate issues that are only marginally related.

Ed

while i agree with u, there is no need to be dramatic. its just the internats. anyways, seeing as i, too, am aiming for an 07 model at some point, i shall be watching this thread closely as well :)

[turntable]

:munch:

i NEED an ap for this car. especially when i pass break-in about 3-4 hundred miles from now.....

[ERLoft]

Well...what if Cobb forgoes the 07 GTs and goes on to work on the 08s ? How cool would that be :-) The car that never went faster - the 07 GTs...

In all honesty...you are not gonna switch maps with that SI-Drive button. At most, the usage will stay the same...control the throttle map.


1) Subscribe

2) I don't see why you couldn't have the Si-Drive button change maps. Hell, I had an ECUTek dual map reflash in my WRX and you changed maps by going WOT on the throttle and then pressing the defroster button. If that can change a map, I can't see any problems with using the input that the Si-Drive button creates. Then again, I'm not an automotive nor electrial engineer.

3) It'll likely be mid-May before we see AP for the 07 models. My understanding is that CAN is a new standard that will be across the board. Already Audi is completely CAN on their cars, so tuners of all sort will be needing to convert over to the CAN interface. It's never as quick as we (the end users) would like when this kind of change in standards happens, but once the changeover is made, CAN will likely be the standard for a good 5+ years. Then again, with the rate of technology change, it could be shorter! :lol:

4) Personally, I'd love to see the Si-Drive retain it's functionality with AP. Given the choice, I'd have the I map basically unchanged - maybe tuned for efficiency, but still conservative in the boost, the timing and the shift points. The S map would be my performance map for standard pump gas, and the S# would be my 100 octane map. I really don't need the increased throttle sensitivity, as it just messses with my feel, especially when it comes to heel-toe downshifting. Hard to blip the throttle the right amount when the same amount of depression/force on the pedal gives you two different results. But that's just my opinion there... We'll have to see if my wishes get fulfilled in a couple of months!

[edkwon]

1) Subscribe

2) I don't see why you couldn't have the Si-Drive button change maps. Hell, I had an ECUTek dual map reflash in my WRX and you changed maps by going WOT on the throttle and then pressing the defroster button. If that can change a map, I can't see any problems with using the input that the Si-Drive button creates. Then again, I'm not an automotive nor electrial engineer.



well that has me convinced that multiple map storage is possible.

Ed

[2005garnetGT]

first off, the ecutek dual map thing was only changing 2 maps; target boost and base ignition timing.
it worked by fooling the ECU into thinking the car was either a manual or auto, because they have/had seperate mapping in the 16bit ecus.
they used the switch to change which set they looked at.

and that wasn't in the ram, like a realtime map is.

I don't think having SI drive vs. not having it means anything in regards to that.

a non-SI drive LGT could just as easily have map switching on the fly, using button combos instead of a dedicated switch.

[02BlkRex]

People really have to think about how having the SI drive knob would help out by switching maps... there are no good reasons.

What don't you understand? Maybe I'm not understanding your statement above. For me, rather than dicking around with the AP to change maps, I would want to turn the little SI-Drive button to right to get max POWA!! This would all hopefully be done on the fly.

I understand the AP will probably still have to be plugged in but it could be hidden under the dash or something.

Having the AP fully integrated into the car while still looking stock is a good enough reason for me.

[2005garnetGT]

and we're saying that isn't gonna happen, what don't you understand about that?

[02BlkRex]

and we're saying that isn't gonna happen, what don't you understand about that?

So let me see...the UTEC can make a map switcher, ECUTek can make button combos to switch maps, etc. And why exactly don't you think it's gonna happen? It may not happen but I guess you are just WAY smarter than me or you work for Cobb because I'm not getting why you think it is so impossible. Challenging? Different? Sure. But not impossible. I think you are just jealous 'cause you don't have a knob to play with.

[2005garnetGT]

if you don't understand the difference between UTEC, and a reflash and the actual mechanics of how ECUTek "switched" maps, then its not worth my time arguing with you.

so I will say it once more:

SI Drive gives NO additional map switching functionality compared to a non-SI drive LGT.

[02BlkRex]

if you don't understand the difference between UTEC, and a reflash and the actual mechanics of how ECUTek "switched" maps, then its not worth my time arguing with you.

so I will say it once more:

SI Drive gives NO additional map switching functionality compared to a non-SI drive LGT.

Ok then, go back to your tower.

[Codean]

I'm not arguing the fact if they are going to make the SI drive knob able to change maps or not... perhaps they will, but its not a big deal either way.

Ecutek map switching is essential because there is no user interface like the accessport or utec.

Utec has a map switch because not everyone wants to spend $900 on EM and then more money on a laptop to switch maps.

How often is someone going to be switching maps that they would NEED to have SI drive map switching? There is only 1 reason I can think of and its silly.

"you are sitting at a stop light and some pile of rice pulls up next to you are revs his engine. You think to yourself, I'm going to blow the doors off of this guy. You reach for the SI drive knob and go from 300hp map to 325hp map."

Ok, so what’s wrong with that?
#1 our cars are not traction limited
#2 you might as well use N2O
#3 If I paid for 325 hp then why not have it that way all the time and use my right foot as the final say in how much power gets put down.

Also, I don't want the SI drive to function as a map switcher due to the fact that it makes it too easy to change maps. It can get bumped, a valet could mess with it or anyone else for that matter.

I just don't see what the big deal is when you can use the accessport display to make map selection for real reasons such as race fuel.

[speeddr7]

I am so sick of this SI drive know it all from everyone. If you want an update and have an 07, OK, if you don't start your own thread on how its not a big deal. I want an update, not everyone being a know it all.
We'll see what happens when or if the AP comes out.

[02BlkRex]

I am so sick of this SI drive know it all from everyone. If you want an update and have an 07, OK, if you don't start your own thread on how its not a big deal. I want an update, not everyone being a know it all.
We'll see what happens when or if the AP comes out.

Amen, '07 brother! I don't care either way but it ticks me off that suddenly there are so many "experts" on something that is pretty much brand new. Nobody knows yet how it is going to pan out. I agree with you, if you don't have any hard updates, don't express your opinion - it's probably wrong anyway.

[Codean]

so if I had an 07 legacy gt it would be ok for me to post in this thread?

[speeddr7]

:)

[02BlkRex]

so if I had an 07 legacy gt it would be ok for me to post in this thread?

Or if you have hard facts instead of just mindless bull spewing out of your mouth...

OPINIONS are not wanted in this particular thread. Hard facts are always welcomed.

Your post above was very informative. I disagree with you on your scenario of when you'd use the "knob". Usually more horseys mean more gas used so I don't think it's too far fetched to want to roll around with 300hp and when a "ricer" pulls up next to you, turn the knob and have another 25hp to seal the deal. That is pretty much exactly why I'd like to see the knob used.

And I've never accidently hit mine enough to change from I to S or S#. It's far enough out of the way you won't hit it unless 1. you want to, 2. you are power shifting and have recently Armor All-ed your stick, or 3. someone in the passenger seat is reaching/climbing over the center console (possibly for "good" reasons). I guess a valet could mess with it but I don't use valet so that is a non issue for me. Also, I love my LGT but a valet has had the opportunity to play with many more expensive-er cars than an LGT. I doubt he'd really care about a knob in a sub-$30,000 car.

[rudy]

Beyond just using the knob, do you think we'll get an 07 specific map, or just a reshashed 05/06? I ask because with the 07's coming stock with the uppipe removed and possibly a different turbo, it seems to me there may be 5-10 HP available at "stage 1" levels than for previous model years.

[Reverend]

Beyond just using the knob, do you think we'll get an 07 specific map, or just a reshashed 05/06? I ask because with the 07's coming stock with the uppipe removed and possibly a different turbo, it seems to me there may be 5-10 HP available at "stage 1" levels than for previous model years.

That's a reasonable assumption...I don't know about 5-10 hp...maybe like 4-7hp, but either way, I'm sure the map will be adjusted to accommodate the lack of an additional cat.

[Reverend]

**taps foot impatiently**

Where's that damn AP?

[Gitster]

Ha, it will be here when its here. I trust Cobb to bring us the best product they can, they've done the Legacy community well in the past.

[02BlkRex]

Ha, it will be here when its here. I trust Cobb to bring us the best product they can, they've done the Legacy community well in the past.

I agree. I'd rather wait a bit longer and have something that is solid rather than having something now but constantly reflash the firmware to fix bugs.

[Reverend]

Bump for an update on the projected release date/timeframe.

[Gitster]

Nothing but rumors still, if theres an actual update and your on this site often, youll know about it.

[ERLoft]

No specifics, but I met and spoke with Trey this weekend at the Prodrive Install day in Santa Ana. He assured me that the LGT would be out as soon as possible, that it was the hardware delays that were holding things up. Apparently when they requested the processors for the new interface, there was a 24 week lead time! Fortuantely that lead time started back in 2006 (September/October maybe? Didn't ask him for a specific date it was ordered...)

Now, on the other hand, we discussed the SI Drive a bit, and he said that not only would changing on the fly between maps work, it was his intention that the AccessPort unit itself would be able to switch maps on the fly for non-SI Drive equipped cars as well. His stated goal was to get more owners to carry the AP in their vehicles to make this on the fly more common. My specific question to him was that my wish list was to have an I mode that was essentially the same, just tuned for whatever mods, a 91 octane performance map and a 100 octane map on my SI Drive button. His response was that wouldn't be any problem at all. Not ony that, but apparently the new ECU's have the capacity to store as many as 10 maps internally!

In any case, they had wanted to wait to release all 07 AccessPorts, but the hardware delays for the LGT led to the release of the STi and WRX AP's last week. We just need to be a little patient (I know, it's damn HARD to be patient!), and we'll get to the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow! :D

[Gitster]

That sounds absolutely insane , but what if you had 100 octane map on Sport Quick and accidentally switched to it while daily driving on 91??? Highway stall??

[2005garnetGT]

Now, on the other hand, we discussed the SI Drive a bit, and he said that not only would changing on the fly between maps work, it was his intention that the AccessPort unit itself would be able to switch maps on the fly for non-SI Drive equipped cars as well.


I told ya!

SI-drive has no implications for map switching vs. non SI-drive LGTs, other then having a dedicated switch vs. a button combo (most likely cruise control)

[sirsimon]

Pretty cool. I am not super concerned with the SI drive functionality (can take it or leave it), but it will be awesome to get the AP out for our cars.

The ability of the ECU to store maps is kind of intriguing, though.

[DukeTrout]

Oh, it sounded like you said,

I don't think SI-drive is complicated enough to allow real-time map switching like you guys think it can.

I don't even know if theres enough room in the RAM to have more then one set of maps.

then a little bit of,

SI-Drive is a LOT simpler then you think it is.

it switches between three throttle maps, and activates sportshift on the 5EATs.

then some,

I don't think having SI drive vs. not having it means anything in regards to that.

a non-SI drive LGT could just as easily have map switching on the fly, using button combos instead of a dedicated switch.

then

and we're saying that isn't gonna happen, what don't you understand about that?

in response to

For me, rather than dicking around with the AP to change maps, I would want to turn the little SI-Drive button to right to get max POWA!! This would all hopefully be done on the fly.

So your position has migrated back and forth a bit. And, from my understanding from the technical description, I mode is more than just throttle mapping. It essentially holds open the wastegate so that any boost that is built up is "passive" rather than actively controlled. That's certainly what it sounds like in use compared to S and S#. But I'm just glad that I can continue to use the feature the way I like to. I = commuter hell mode; S# = g therapy session.

[2005garnetGT]

I've been keeping tabs on the RT tuning dev process over at enginuity and learned more about the 32bit ecu vs. the 16 bit ecu, and about what is or is not actually possible with the rom code.

back when I said that, I didn't think it was possible to do, but now I know it is.

I find it very interesting that we are seeing planned AP support for things like speed density and launch control now, a few months after the openecu people have started to develop it.

makes you think.

[rudy]

I find it very interesting that we are seeing planned AP support for things like speed density and launch control now, a few months after the openecu people have started to develop it.

makes you think.

Think what? That Cobb is possibly incorporating open-source functionality? Nothing wrong with that. If anything, so long as they abide by the terms of the associated license (which, I'm willing to bet that a company like Cobb does if they have ANY form of competent legal guidance), it means that they'll contribute back bug fixes and other advancement back to the community for the portions of OS-code that they utilize.

If they're just reverse engineering OS-code, that's fine too. Then they're making a decision to rewrite code and that has an economic cost to them that they're willing to pay.

Heck, they could completely resell one of the open-source solutions. Remember, they can charge for packaging (AP unit), the associated service and support that they provide, and any maps they develop with their expertise. I'm willing to bet people would STILL pay pretty much what they do today for the hardware/support/expertly developed maps and not care that they could have downloaded the raw tuning tools for free online.

[2005garnetGT]

I don't think they are incorporating functionality, I think they are now actually viewing open source as a credible threat, and devoting resources to competing with it.

[rudy]

I don't think they are incorporating functionality, I think they are now actually viewing open source as a credible threat, and devoting resources to competing with it.

That's great, competition is good for us the consumer! Where I see it being a bigger threat is individual tuners being able to use OS tools to program customer cars. Again, I think the value is in how much trust the buyer has in the tune. Will it potentially fry my ECU when I'm tuned or change maps? Has the map I'm loading has been well tested and possibly run on hundreds of cars like mine with success?

So, where Cobb has to really remain competitive is making sure their tuning tools and hardware are a cut above so that regional shops like TDC, etc. continue utilize Cobb's solution over OS alternatives. Otherwise, someone like TDC and others who have invested the dyno time and have built a reputation will be able to start competing with Cobb versus relying on Cobb for a good portion of the product cost.

<usual disclaimer than my previous two posts don't constitute legal advice, etc.> :)

[2005garnetGT]

the physical AP itself will always have an advantage over the needing of a laptop


the company that is completely screwed by OS tuning is, of course, ECuTek.

they really have nothing to offer besides a pricetag.

[sirsimon]

Give me AP now....AP NOW....!!! :mad: ;)

[02BlkRex]

I told ya!

SI-drive has no implications for map switching vs. non SI-drive LGTs, other then having a dedicated switch vs. a button combo (most likely cruise control)

Ummmm...isn't that what map switching is? I'm glad to see that the SI-drive will be incorporated. It'll be nice to be able to switch maps without having to hook the AP up. Cm'on Cobb, release it already!!

[speeddr7]

seriously I want this F'n thing already!!!!

[Kargurra]

Sorry to wake an old thread, but I had subscribed to this to keep tabs on when the AP was going to be released. Since nobody posted to it, I didn't find out until today. For others in the same boat, here's the link:

http://www.cobbtuning.com/products/?id=3268

[Richard B.]

does the redline for the 5eat get automatically extended to 7k or is it a secondary request that i would have to tune for?

[edkwon]

does the redline for the 5eat get automatically extended to 7k or is it a secondary request that i would have to tune for?

no idea if its a 5EAT specific thing, but my car has the same 6500 redline and my protuner raised the limit to 7K w the tuning software.