HELP! AP v2 car wont start!

[integroid]

I received the AP v2 last week and installed stage 1 no problem at all. Last night I went and installed an up pipe and downpipe. That went well. Started the car and it was fine. Turned motor off and went to flash ecu with stage 2 map. During the install, the AP just turned off and then I noticed an ER HC error where my odometer was. Turned ignition off and try and again. Car will not start and I still have the ER HC error. Uplug battery for a few hours and try again....Same thing. The AP will power up if the car is not turned on but as soon as you turn the ignition on, the AP goes dead. ANyone have any ideas? I have tried everything with every combination of ways of trying to get the AP to stay powered up when the ignition is on. T

[mickeyd2005]

uh-oh... power loss during flash == bench flash required.

Cobb will take care of it, but you might be out of commission for a while.

[D0WNxSH1FT]

As great a resource as this site is, the V2 is so new and there are will be so many bugs that it is best to just call Cobb.

Remember they are in Utah so dont call too early

Phone: 801.713.0035

[zuczek]

You did unplug the green TEST connector after the flash right? If you did then the ECU is fried. But hey, so is mine.. It will cost you about $800 if Cobb can't fix it.

[integroid]

Yes I did and I think Cobb should fix this mess and not me. My car is stuck in another state right now parked in front of the Cobb Tuning of the VW/Audi world. Nice thing about it is I got to take a Stage 3 A4 home with me:) Bad thing is it rides like a race car.

I was going to call Cobb Tuesday morning but just seeing if anyone else has had this problem.

[bmorrisj]

I received the AP v2 last week and installed stage 1 no problem at all. Last night I went and installed an up pipe and downpipe. That went well. Started the car and it was fine. Turned motor off and went to flash ecu with stage 2 map. During the install, the AP just turned off and then I noticed an ER HC error where my odometer was. Turned ignition off and try and again. Car will not start and I still have the ER HC error. Uplug battery for a few hours and try again....Same thing. The AP will power up if the car is not turned on but as soon as you turn the ignition on, the AP goes dead. ANyone have any ideas? I have tried everything with every combination of ways of trying to get the AP to stay powered up when the ignition is on. T


thats your problem right there..... if you woulda known that if you dont turn off the key the ecu wont reboot and take the new settings(or lack thereof) and you can just start flashing again...

[integroid]

thats your problem right there..... if you woulda known that if you dont turn off the key the ecu wont reboot and take the new settings(or lack thereof) and you can just start flashing again...

If you would have read right before it, it states that the AP just shut off and would not power up. What else was I suppose to do? Car wouldn't crank over, AP would not turn on, car was dead.....So I turned ignition off. Seemed like the most logical thing to do.

[bmorrisj]

If you would have read right before it, it states that the AP just shut off and would not power up. What else was I suppose to do? Car wouldn't crank over, AP would not turn on, car was dead.....So I turned ignition off. Seemed like the most logical thing to do.

ya hindsight is 20/20.... same thing happened to me, but instead i was shown a "flash complete turn off ignition to finish" but i did not notice one of the memory blocks that was not normally written to did change and it ended up being the bootstrap which initiated communications....:( if only i had just reflashed without turning of the key all would have been well....


any device power failure short of the car battery going out you can just restart the flash process, as long as you dont turn off the key the ecu keeps the previous contents.

[AWDxBOOST]

interested to see what comes of this...

[MiniStiGuy]

My car is flashed and I don't have the green connecter's connected still...

Once I flashed the car I unplugged them and the AP

Mine starts everytime and my AP works like a champ.

[rkl303]

You did unplug the green TEST connector after the flash right? If you did then the ECU is fried. But hey, so is mine.. It will cost you about $800 if Cobb can't fix it.

So was your ECU is fried? Was the symptom that the car wouldn't start or that you couldn't change the maps?

I accidently forgot to unplug the test connector after flashing and started up the car. It works but it seems like I can't uninstall or run the real time map as the car can't identify the map.

[AWDxBOOST]

when working on a friends car, we forgot to unplug the green ones after flashing, and it just threw a CEL...not problems tho


that was with AP 1.0

[integroid]

So was your ECU is fried? Was the symptom that the car wouldn't start or that you couldn't change the maps?

I accidently forgot to unplug the test connector after flashing and started up the car. It works but it seems like I can't uninstall or run the real time map as the car can't identify the map.


I have no idea what is wrong with my ecu. I am calling cobb tomorrow. From what I have read and have been told, my ecu will need a benchflash at the very least. The car won't start, the ap will not turn on when the ignition is on, and I have a ER HC error where the odometer reads. Basically my AP just stopped working in the middle of a change of maps. After it stopped working, I got the ER HC error and nothing works anymore.

[bmorrisj]

fortunately the ecu does have a data port internally that bypasses any comms hadshaking/bootstraps etc... and allows for mass erasing/re-writing.... but yes you need some serious bench hardware for that...

[integroid]

I am so frustrated with cobb.....It has been hell trying to get someone on the phone and when I finally do, I get cut off.....I have been on hold for well over two hours with them today. They keep trying to tell me it is from low battery voltage but we left a chrager on it overnight. I guess we will ahve to wait and see what the resolution is.

[zuczek]

Parts would cost about $40 to make one. I have the diagram from Colby.

fortunately the ecu does have a data port internally that bypasses any comms hadshaking/bootstraps etc... and allows for mass erasing/re-writing.... but yes you need some serious bench hardware for that...

[RyanE]

Could you please share that diagram? If a couple of us built these devices we might be able to help out fellow LGTers in case of emergency. There seems to be enough EE talented people on this board to make that work.

-Ryan

[integroid]

Finally! I just got off witht hem again and they want me to send in the ECU and AP. I even made my friend go back out to my car with a jump box and it still would not turn over. They will have it tomorrow and hopefully have an answer by the end of week.

[bmorrisj]

I even made my friend go back out to my car with a jump box and it still would not turn over.

thats because there is no communication on the Car Area Network.... particularly with the immobilizer..... or the clutch/neutral switch input is missing from the ecu.... mine was BACKWARDS:lol:

[integroid]

Parts would cost about $40 to make one. I have the diagram from Colby.


Could you please send me the diagram as well:) I can probably make one if not have one made.

Thanks!

[Trey@COBB]

Just so everyone's aware, we're actively working with integroid on this issue. Its been difficult and I'm sure frustrating for him (and us) considering he's not with his car right now so all troubleshooting has to be passed along to someone else and we're trying to go off of what he's being told by the people with his car or can remember from the original experience. Nonetheless, we can get it sorted out.

The one component that I am interested in is the fact that it's being reported the new AccessPORT powers down only when the key is turned to the 'ON' position. Considering the OBD2 pins we use to power the AccessPORT are the constant 12V+ and GND, that have connectivity even with the ignition OFF, is quite puzzling. Also the fact that the car does not "turn over" which when our techs described the situation to me sounds like a battery issue. Even without the ECU installed in the vehicle, the starter motor will engage and turn over the engine. It won't start, but the engine will turn over. That, coupled with the strange power off situation of the AccessPORT with the key in the ON position seemed to indicate low battery.

Nonetheless, we'll inspect everything here and determine the root of the situation. Obviously this is an oddity, but we want to get to the bottom of it and get integroid on the road enjoying his AccessPORT-equipped LGT!

Cheers,
Trey @ COBB

[f1anatic]

Neat. I knew Cobb would do its best to get him back on the road.
Trey Cobb FTW !

[bmorrisj]

the issue with not turning over is strange.... with my bad flash the car would not turn over for anything, then after having my ecu benchflashed, the car would only not start because it had been sitting for two weeks with the XM radio on :lol: but with a jump and having the car in gear (because of borked neutral/clutch interlock switch) it started up....

[integroid]

Thanks Trey (or maybe Pooh) for chiming in. It was very frustrating today trying to talk to someone and when I finally got someone, I would either get cut off or told to go try something else. Then trying to call back was hell since the phone line was constantly busy. I honestly spent at least 5-6 hours on the phone trying to call in or on hold today. I am glad the ecu and AP is on its way out to you. It has been frustrating but I still think you have a great product. I am sure it will be all worth it once all the kinks are worked out of it.

[zuczek]

Here you go. Courtesy of Tactrix and Colby Boles.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/zuczek/Diagram.jpg


You can use this

www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=28024 (http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=28024)

or

www.hvwtech.com/products_view.asp?CatID=166&SubCatID=183&SubSubCatID=0&ProductID=409 (http://www.hvwtech.com/products_view.asp?CatID=166&SubCatID=183&SubSubCatID=0&ProductID=409)

(Located in Calgary, Canada. Cheaper Canadian shipping)

for the USB-Serial chip

[mickeyd2005]

the issue with not turning over is strange.... with my bad flash the car would not turn over for anything, then after having my ecu benchflashed, the car would only not start because it had been sitting for two weeks with the XM radio on :lol: but with a jump and having the car in gear (because of borked neutral/clutch interlock switch) it started up....

Where did you get a bench flash?

Wondering just in case I screw something up.

[2005garnetGT]

colby did it for him, but then his ECU got lost in the mail or whatever and colby was less than helpful about resolving it...

[mickeyd2005]

^^^ I'm talking about bmorrisj and not zucek.

[hutru01]

So I have a question, considering this is the first time I have ever done any type of serious modifications to a car, should I have a tune shop install my AP? I really don't want to screw something up to where I wouldn't have a car. I have Mach V up the road and AMS Tuning in Maryland. What do you guys think?

[integroid]

^^^ I'm talking about bmorrisj and not zucek.

+1

[bmorrisj]

^^^ I'm talking about bmorrisj and not zucek.


i sent my ecu to Colby a couple days after him.... and only had a week turnaround...

also socal to seattle is a lot less complicated than coming from canada..

[bmorrisj]

So I have a question, considering this is the first time I have ever done any type of serious modifications to a car, should I have a tune shop install my AP? I really don't want to screw something up to where I wouldn't have a car. I have Mach V up the road and AMS Tuning in Maryland. What do you guys think?


the whole point of the AP is so the user can basically reflash without the need of a professional....

[hutru01]

the whole point of the AP is so the user can basically reflash without the need of a professional....

As long as there are precise directions, I should be fine, but just thought I would ask. Mine is still in the mail from TDC. I ordered in on Dec 13th

[bmorrisj]

As long as there are precise directions, I should be fine, but just thought I would ask. Mine is still in the mail from TDC. I ordered in on Dec 13th

Oohhh.... theres a good reason for that:(

[mickeyd2005]

I always keep a trickle charger on the battery while flashing.

<-- Paranoid

[integroid]

Well, just got a tracking number from Cobb for my AP v2 and my ECU. Apparently, a faulty AP caused this whole ordeal. The ECU and AP will be at APR tomorrow morning and should have my car back tomorrow night. It was very nice of Cobb to send my stuff UPS Next Day Saturday Delivery. I will keep everyone updated when I get my car back.

[SpeedNeeder]

good luck!

[zuczek]

Just so everyone knows.. Colby did ship my ECU when he said he did. I just recieved it today, a month and a half later!! DHL screwed up somewhere. It shows on the waybil that it was picked up Nov 21, 2006. but there was no tracking of it at that time as if it was never picked up. On the tracking website right now it shows picked up Nov 21st and then next entry is January 2nd. Weird! IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A NEXT DAY DELIVERY!!

It cost me over $500 because of that! At least I have a spare ECU...

I wonder if it would still work as far as the immobilizer goes.. Would it have the same code as they programmed into my replacement ECU?

If I can only get yebokmj to refund my money for the broken ECU he send me that would be great!

[integroid]

Well, bad news, got everything in my car and same thing. ER HC in odometer display and the car won't turn over and crank. Hell, the fuel pump doesnt even initalize. ANyone have any ideas on what else it could be? Do you think the BIU got fried during the bad flash with the AP?

[2005garnetGT]

Just so everyone knows.. Colby did ship my ECU when he said he did. I just recieved it today, a month and a half later!! DHL screwed up somewhere. It shows on the waybil that it was picked up Nov 21, 2006. but there was no tracking of it at that time as if it was never picked up. On the tracking website right now it shows picked up Nov 21st and then next entry is January 2nd. Weird! IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A NEXT DAY DELIVERY!!

It cost me over $500 because of that! At least I have a spare ECU...

I wonder if it would still work as far as the immobilizer goes.. Would it have the same code as they programmed into my replacement ECU?

If I can only get yebokmj to refund my money for the broken ECU he send me that would be great!
wow, I apologize to colby for casting any bad light on him.

Consider anything negative I said about his handling of this incident null and void, it really wasn't his fault at all.

[zuczek]

Well, bad news, got everything in my car and same thing. ER HC in odometer display and the car won't turn over and crank. Hell, the fuel pump doesnt even initalize. ANyone have any ideas on what else it could be? Do you think the BIU got fried during the bad flash with the AP?


No, the BIU is not involved in the flash process at all. If your ECU had been bench flashed then you need to load a map onto it first, then marry the Accessport.

PM bmorrisj for more info on what's involved after having his ECU bench flashed.

Have you tried just marrying the accessport?

You may want to find someone with the Openport cable and get them to flash a base stock image to the ECU. This should clear the ER HC message. Also, check the fuse for the ECU. It maybe blown. Also check the main relay. If your car was boosted the main relay and the main fuse may have went.

I can tell you that finding a used ECU is a nightmare. I searched for over a month and came across 1 05 Manual Tranny ECU at a junkyard. All others turned up to be for Auto tranny. Mine is from a 05 Outback XT with a different part number but works fine.

One thing to remember is that if you have to find a used ECU make sure that the last letter in the part number (like 22611AJ17 (a) (b) (c) (d) ) is at least a (b) unless your original one is an (a). Subaru removed a sensor in the gas tank in the (b)

Ohh, You did unplug the green test connector right above the ECU right?

[integroid]

Thanks zuczek for the advice.

Supposedly, Cobb benchflashed the ecu and put a stock base map on it. I will have my friend try to marry the AP and send a base map to it again.

I wish bjmorris would chime in:(

[mickeyd2005]

That s*cks.

Hope you get your car fixed soon.

One thing that I didn't understand was Trey@Cobb's comment regarding the engine cranking over. I was under the impression that an LGT (not all cars) with a corrupted ECU ROM will not turn over. He said that it would turn over because the starter was independent of the ECU.

zuczek and bmorrisj, did your cars crank over when your ECUs were in need of a bench flash?

[zuczek]

That s*cks.

Hope you get your car fixed soon.

One thing that I didn't understand was Trey@Cobb's comment regarding the engine cranking over. I was under the impression that an LGT (not all cars) with a corrupted ECU ROM will not turn over. He said that it would turn over because the starter was independent of the ECU.

zuczek and bmorrisj, did your cars crank over when your ECUs were in need of a bench flash?

NO! It behaves like you didn't press the clutch in to start. No cranking, no fuel pump activity.

If the only problem with the ECU is that the immobilizer is not programmed in to it, then the car will crank over and even start for a brief moment but there will be no ER HC message. But if the ROM is corrupted then it just shows ER HC and it's dead.

[bmorrisj]

i was able to drive my car with Er HC after i got my ecu back from Colby... i just had to start the car in gear w/ the clutch... the map i put on had the clutch interlock/neutral safety all wierd.... the main problem was that before the bench flash i could not communicate with the ecu nor a subaru tech with ssm tool....

oh and my starter wouldnt crank for anything when this first happened...

once again the main problem for us was that there was no communication to the ecu, like it wasnt there...

you need to check and see if you can communicate with the ecu... (ecuflash, ecuexplorer, subaru dealear/ssm) the easiest being openecu tools... you may get nailed checking with the dealer...

[integroid]

thanks bmorrisj. It sounds like I am having the same problem with my ECU/CAR. What was causing your car to not be able to communicate to the ecu? What did you do to fix the problem? Just a benchflash? If so, Cobb suposedly did that last week and sent me back the benchflashed ecu.

[bmorrisj]

after Colby benchflased and sent me my ecu, it still had the bad rom and ErHC on it.... but he rewrote the bootstrap with all the communication initialization.... so subaru ssm was able to communicate, i paid my hour of labor to the tech and took my car with the interior in pieces.... i flashed to one of my known good roms, and that was the end of my problem...

[mele63]

after Colby benchflased and sent me my ecu, it still had the bad rom and ErHC on it.... but he rewrote the bootstrap with all the communication initialization.... so subaru ssm was able to communicate, i paid my hour of labor to the tech and took my car with the interior in pieces.... i flashed to one of my known good roms, and that was the end of my problem...

um,what?

beta testing FTL

[bmorrisj]

um,what?

beta testing FTL


actually it was kind of an aviodable mistake on all parts:lol:

the software worked fine, it was just an incorrect rom revision that relocated parts of the ecu....

i just didnt notice that one of the addresses, when compared to another working rom, that was not normally written to was indeed overwritten.


hindsight says had i left the key on and reflashed, everything would have been fine....

from now on i will be transposing rom maps into my working maps if not modifying them myself, not just downloading from the web and flashing.... that was the first and last time i did that....


so dont let "Flash complete" fool you.... :lol:

[2005garnetGT]

actually it was kind of an aviodable mistake on all parts:lol:

the software worked fine, it was just an incorrect rom revision that relocated parts of the ecu....

i just didnt notice that one of the addresses, when compared to another working rom, that was not normally written to was indeed overwritten.


hindsight says had i left the key on and reflashed, everything would have been fine....

from now on i will be transposing rom maps into my working maps if not modifying them myself, not just downloading from the web and flashing.... that was the first and last time i did that....


so dont let "Flash complete" fool you.... :lol:
why do you think I am still on map revision 510C when 521C is out there?

my bootstrap shouldn't ever be overwritten :icon_cool

[bmorrisj]

why do you think I am still on map revision 510C when 521C is out there?

my bootstrap shouldn't ever be overwritten :icon_cool


yea im on 521n im afraid to go 522n:lol:

[integroid]

Just got note from my friend that the ecuexploer would not communicate with my ecu. I guess this means the ecu is still dead?

[mickeyd2005]

Did he check using a Tactrix or AP V1.0 cable?

[zuczek]

Try loading a base HEX map for your car. You can get that from osecuroms.org .
Once you load the base map, you may be able to get it working. If you can't even use ECUFlash, then the bootstrap is still corrupt or the ECU is actually fried.

Have you checked your main relay, main fuse and the ecu fuse? Those would prevent you from seeing your ecu.

Last resort is to send it back to Cobb or build that boot mode programmer (I posted the diagram above).

You will need to order one of those USB-SERIAL boards I listed in that post and the the 555 timer chip and a few resistors/caps. If the ECU is still good, that programmer would allow you to bench flash the ECU yourself.

[integroid]

Sorry guys, I just got my car back. Apparently my friend did not have one of the connectors all the way plugged in. Everything is golden now....Car runs, stage 2 map loaded and I am having a blast with it. Thanks for all of your help!

[bmorrisj]

Sorry guys, I just got my car back. Apparently my friend did not have one of the connectors all the way plugged in. Everything is golden now....Car runs, stage 2 map loaded and I am having a blast with it. Thanks for all of your help!

wheres that tard smiley when you need it... :lol:


good, deal and have fun... :icon_cool

[lucas569]

wtf i thought the apv2 was simpler to use?

[Infamous1]

wheres that tard smiley when you need it... :lol:


good, deal and have fun... :icon_cool
+1

[Infamous1]

wtf i thought the apv2 was simpler to use?
It is, his seemed to have had an issue from Cobb though. I installed mine almost 3 weeks ago with no connection issues.

[integroid]

Yup, the APv2 works great now and I am loving it:) Geez...my car seems so fast now that I am debating doing the STi swap w/20g I have coming to me:)

[chuckzul]

You did unplug the green TEST connector after the flash right? If you did then the ECU is fried. But hey, so is mine.. It will cost you about $800 if Cobb can't fix it.

Where exactly is this test connecter? I know it is in the passenger side, behind the fan motor somewhere, but I honestly can't see it.

[mickeyd2005]

If your car has never been flashed, it will be tucked quite neatly under the carpet above where the passenger's left foot would be. I had to fish around for a while to find mine. You could also rip the carpet up, but I didn't want to do that.

[Infamous1]

Yup, the APv2 works great now and I am loving it:) Geez...my car seems so fast now that I am debating doing the STi swap w/20g I have coming to me:)

Trust me it wil past!

[whobaru]

If your car has never been flashed, it will be tucked quite neatly under the carpet above where the passenger's left foot would be. I had to fish around for a while to find mine. You could also rip the carpet up, but I didn't want to do that.

Ripping the carpet up is easy and is goes right back.

[2005garnetGT]

did you check the post date on this?

[dr_sharp]

Obviously not lol

[hogmeat]

Trust me it wil past!


did it past yet?

[dr_sharp]

did it past yet?
:lol::lol:

[Merc6]

Yep in same boat out of state.

[integroid]

:lol::lol:


Yup, it past about 10 months later and I put the 20G on with all supporting mods;) I am now wondering how long it will take for me to upgrade to a SZ55 with ewg setup:eek:

[hogmeat]

Do you drink Past Blue Ribbon Beer?

[integroid]

LOL...no

[Merc6]

So after pcm is replaced it's safe to say the AP needs to be sent back to get unlocked?

[integroid]

So after pcm is replaced it's safe to say the AP needs to be sent back to get unlocked?

If you did not unmarry your AP before you had your ECU replaced, you will have to send the AP back to cobb and pay like $350 to ahve them unmarry the unit.

[Merc6]

Damn.

[The Don]

This happend to me today..im guessing it was a bad flash..i flashed it looked down the screen was blank i waited nothig happend..after that anything i tried said cant connect to ECU..anything i can do?? im assuming its still married im going to have to have it flatbeded to dealer..i hope i dont need new ECU cuz then i have to pay for that...then have my AP sent to Cobb..

[iamboon]

I just received my ECU back from Cobb. same thing happened to me.... Chris at Cobb did some trouble shooting on the phone and found that the ECU was bad.. sent it in on a Tuesday and got back on Sat...

[Merc6]

This happend to me today..im guessing it was a bad flash..i flashed it looked down the screen was blank i waited nothig happend..after that anything i tried said cant connect to ECU..anything i can do?? im assuming its still married im going to have to have it flatbeded to dealer..i hope i dont need new ECU cuz then i have to pay for that...then have my AP sent to Cobb..
when I was stuck in jersey it was flatbeaded to chery hill subaru. They figured it out in like 30 mins. dealership said door open can fry it as well as batt dying before tune loaded. make shure you have all your keys if it was the ecu and about $1070 in cash/credit laying around. I am giving up on the V1 and gonna get a V2 for a real dyno tune.

[The Don]

called Cobb they helped me out..figured out it must have been a bad map..i flashed an old map i had and it works...its just not tuned anymore..so although i dont need a new ECU and w.e..i do need a new dyno tune :(

[Merc6]

Mine was fried(wouldn't hold the dealer reflash) and dealership said my "Highly Modified Legacy GT needs a dyno tune"

[Infamous1]

Intake and exhaust is a highly modified LGT to the dealer.....