Uh, oh...somebody talk me out of the Outback!

[gtguy]

The more I look, the more I like. That killer grille...225-55-17s...ground clearance galore, same great amenities, gearbox and motor on the XT. I know the suspension will have different tuning, and probably won't be as "road worthy," but...I really like that car in the forest green monotone.

Am I crazy, or has the wait just pushed me over the edge?

Kevin

[Dr. Zevil]

you were trying to talk me out of an XT earlier. I am still considering one. they look great!

[apexjapan]

Just would like to point out that if I was buying either a 3.0 Legacy or Outback with no intention of suspension modification, I would go for the Outback myself. Better gearing selection and a more rewarding ride/suspension feel for my tastes - as in, firmer with less body roll than the non-height enhanced Legacy. That is if the turbo models follow the same path (no turbo Outback in Japan).

Cheers,

Paul Hansen

[gtguy]

Just would like to point out that if I was buying either a 3.0 Legacy or Outback with no intention of suspension modification, I would go for the Outback myself. Better gearing selection and a more rewarding ride/suspension feel for my tastes - as in, firmer with less body roll than the non-height enhanced Legacy. That is if the turbo models follow the same path (no turbo Outback in Japan).

Cheers,

Paul Hansen

You're no help, Hansen! :lol: That suspension tuning thing is interesting, however. I wonder if the turbo (XT) here will get different suspension tuning than the other Outbacks. What's interesting is that here, the XT has the highest ride height of any of the Outbacks. It isn't huge, but nonetheless...

Kevin

[SUBE555]

The extra tire probably will offset that harder ride. ;)

Besides, it's a truck now, you can't race a truck in SCCA rules IIRC for Solo 1, 2. :lol:

[gtguy]

The extra tire probably will offset that harder ride. ;)

Besides, it's a truck now, you can't race a truck in SCCA rules IIRC for Solo 1, 2. :lol:

Who's racing? I just want the coolest ride I can get.

Kevin

[apexjapan]

It was a move designed to balance out the fact that the Outback is higher off the ground, thus needed a bit more roll-resistance to keep things on track. The side benefit was that, up to about 7 or 8/10's, the Outback feels (and is) better damped and stable. If you were going to drive past the 7/10's point for any significant period of time, the lower car is better. These days, it is rare for even I to drive above 8/10's. But I have enough track appearances scheduled this year that my new GT is going to have a full complement of braking and suspension upgrades at the least.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen

[SUBE555]

And that's what I would see the meaning for the more compliant ride for- the higher center of gravity.

Paul, we envy you!

[Dr. Zevil]

I am still considering the Outback XT. in truth I had never stopped considering it. I think that it looks more aggresive than the GT and I can drive through that much more snow. But I have always felt that I would be getting away from a great handling vehicle if I got one. So Paul, you are saying that this isn't the case?

[SUBE555]

I'll be AutoXing mine and maybe a few high-speed AutoX's at like Gingerman or Blackhawk, so I'm preferential to the lower stance. But I'd say if you just want something a bit more potent than stock and primarily use it for road travel (like through snow), this would probably be an alright vehicle. I just like the lower stance of the Legacy (which will probably also get STi springs under there too effectively taking out maybe another inch or so. Hmm, wonder if I can get that low sedan CD with that as I noticed little has changed externally to the OB versus a Legacy but has a higher ride and higher CD. *shrug*

[EJ20H-TT]

But I have enough track appearances scheduled this year that my new GT is going to have a full complement of braking and suspension upgrades at the least.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen

Hi Paul

Getting a new GT ? I presume you are not getting a spec B and going to do your own suspesion a sort of spec Hansen.

Whats to become of the TT beast ?

[SUBE555]

Someone else's beast I imagine.

[apexjapan]

Two for one special:

At least in Japan, Legacy 3.0 vs. Outback 3.0 back to back, the suspension on the Outback was more roll resistant and damped than the Legacy. YMMV on American models, but they did do it that way to counter the fact that the Outback has a higher COG but was going to go as fast as the Legacy.

Alas, yes, the Blue Streak is being passed on to a new owner at some time in the future (friday). I managed to dent the door when leaving a very narrow area of rural Japan, and whilst getting a repair estimate, the wife decided that it would be cheaper to get a new car. I still do not fully follow the logic, but the end result is not something I am going to argue with. Big Blue dyno'ed out at 300hp during it's swan song dyno run, this was with a panel filter and stock airbox to boot. Up 54hp from stock, felt like a small-block or big V6, with the power up by that much literally everywhere.

Right now, it is stock. In all it's bouncy feeling glory. It still has the centre pipe and muffler on, though, till I source some stock units to replace it. Til then, I am forbidden full throttle runs of any note, given that knock would likely rear it's engine-blowing head if I did.

Replacement is via a Legacy GT turbo, standard trim. After talking it over with some experts, general consensus was that the longer geared GT would actually be better than the Spec B, due to the lack of top-end power in the new Legacies. Since peak torque hits at 2400rpm and holds to 5400rpm, longer gearing would take better advantage of this engine especially if power and torque is raised by quite a bit. And once the engine does let go, a 2.5-litre short block is going to go in. I may not even wait for the engine to let go, if adding an STi twin-scroll turbine doesn't do it. :twisted:

Happily, 225 series rubber fits with no worries, and I'm sure a bit of massage will have 235 series rubber under there. With what is planned, I would not be surprised if we manage to put a hurting to Evo's with the (again) Blue Beast II.

The biggest problem may be time, I may have scored a job that will guarantee my finances - and no life.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen

[SUBE555]

No life because you'll be in the office all hours or you'll be on the track all the time? Which is it? :lol:

Best of luck. I know you'll do well at whatever you do, and I know the GT will really be a fun toy, can't wait to see pics and the parts going on it.

[gtguy]

Two for one special:

At least in Japan, Legacy 3.0 vs. Outback 3.0 back to back, the suspension on the Outback was more roll resistant and damped than the Legacy. YMMV on American models, but they did do it that way to counter the fact that the Outback has a higher COG but was going to go as fast as the Legacy.
Cheers,

Paul Hansen

You're killing me, Paul. Mmmmm...black XT, done and out the door. Yes, the XT would have to be black, stress and insanity be damned. The only question would be what to get for snow wheels, since my P1s are too nice for winter wheels. :lol:

Kevin

[apexjapan]

No life because you'll be in the office all hours or you'll be on the track all the time? Which is it? :lol:


Office, unfortunately. Or may be travelling a bit more. Possibly a lot more. Hard to say, but at the current rate, may have a new car and no time to drive it. :o

Paul

[Dr. Zevil]

Two for one special:

At least in Japan, Legacy 3.0 vs. Outback 3.0 back to back, the suspension on the Outback was more roll resistant and damped than the Legacy. YMMV on American models, but they did do it that way to counter the fact that the Outback has a higher COG but was going to go as fast as the Legacy.
Cheers,

Paul Hansen

You're killing me, Paul. Mmmmm...black XT, done and out the door. Yes, the XT would have to be black, stress and insanity be damned. The only question would be what to get for snow wheels, since my P1s are too nice for winter wheels. :lol:

Kevin


So you are serious about going outback? I just wanted to know if I was the only one. I am going back and forth between an OBXT and a GT limited. I just can't decide... dammit! :lol:

[SteVTEC]

I would probably go with an Outback also, if it wasn't for the fact that we already have a Highlander. The extra ground clearance is great for when we head down to the Outer Banks where they let you drive on the beach. But our Highlander already does a good enough job through that stuff. It can also swallow up more than enough cargo.

So most likely a 2.5GT sedan for me. That's interesting on the suspension and ride differences though. Hmmmmm.. An Outback XT would definitely be more of a sleeper also. Double hmmmmmmmm :)


Steve

[Dr. Zevil]

That outback would get a world-class debadging as soon as it got home though :D but that's just me

[SUBE555]

Remember, higher ride height also increase the CD and therefore a little more fuel as well.

Will be interesting to see the EPA rated mileage specs on the new models. :)

[SteVTEC]

The difference in drag force between 0.28 and 0.31 is negligible enough that I doubt it would affect fuel mileage significantly - a few pounds of drag at cruising speeds at most I would think. Hmm...I'll have to dump the specs into my application that does this for me. Overall drag force is also a function of frontal area also (along with the Cd), and I don't think that's changing very much.


Steve

[SUBE555]

See what the difference would be at like 80mph (given traveling out west or wherever.) Don't know if the ratios are different between either too. IIRC, if they use the FXT 4.444, it will be up a little on revs and such and a few more things come to play including rolling rubber friction...

[gtguy]

Two for one special:

At least in Japan, Legacy 3.0 vs. Outback 3.0 back to back, the suspension on the Outback was more roll resistant and damped than the Legacy. YMMV on American models, but they did do it that way to counter the fact that the Outback has a higher COG but was going to go as fast as the Legacy.
Cheers,

Paul Hansen

You're killing me, Paul. Mmmmm...black XT, done and out the door. Yes, the XT would have to be black, stress and insanity be damned. The only question would be what to get for snow wheels, since my P1s are too nice for winter wheels. :lol:

Kevin


So you are serious about going outback? I just wanted to know if I was the only one. I am going back and forth between an OBXT and a GT limited. I just can't decide... dammit! :lol:

Heck yeah, I'm serious. That grille alone makes the OB worth considering. My guess would be, referencing a post that Sube makes below, that the OBXT would get the same 4.11 final as the GT. Oh, and in what might be the first published review of the Legacy, check this snippet out...

<<There’s a switch that powers the rear seatbacks up or down from the back, for those moments when you’ve got a kid in one hand and three grocery bags in the cart.>>

Oh, man...I hope this is true.

Kevin

[Dr. Zevil]

i am so torn.. I really like the OB fender flares and front foglamps. it looks like a much more aggressive beast! I just don't want to sacrafice too much fun-factor over the GT. I wonder if there will be any sacrafices at all?

[apexjapan]

Stock, the JDM 3.0 Outback was as, or more, fun than the Legacy. And if you were going to change the suspension, you could lower the Outback as well. :twisted:

Cheers,

Paul Hansen

[Dr. Zevil]

I dont think i would want to lower the car at all. I am looking for the "out of the box" fun factor. I wish the XT wasn't at a higher ride hieght than the others. Now if I could only get some pricing. I think that would narrow down my choices.

So in a nutshell, in your experience, the outback had flatter handling with a more forgiving ride? Am I getting this right or have I completely missd it? I doubt that I will push the car near it's limits anyway.

[Dr. Zevil]

Two for one special:

At least in Japan, Legacy 3.0 vs. Outback 3.0 back to back, the suspension on the Outback was more roll resistant and damped than the Legacy. YMMV on American models, but they did do it that way to counter the fact that the Outback has a higher COG but was going to go as fast as the Legacy.
Cheers,

Paul Hansen

You're killing me, Paul. Mmmmm...black XT, done and out the door. Yes, the XT would have to be black, stress and insanity be damned. The only question would be what to get for snow wheels, since my P1s are too nice for winter wheels. :lol:

Kevin

Sube has got my eye on the atlantic blue... :drool:

[apexjapan]

Just a note here - this is for the JDM, USDM tuning may differ.

The JDM Outback had a slightly *firmer* ride and cornered flatter.

It was also a tad bit less jiggly, and felt more comfortable to be driving.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen

[Dr. Zevil]

we, at least I, always appreciate your opinions on such matters!

[SUBE555]

Two for one special:

At least in Japan, Legacy 3.0 vs. Outback 3.0 back to back, the suspension on the Outback was more roll resistant and damped than the Legacy. YMMV on American models, but they did do it that way to counter the fact that the Outback has a higher COG but was going to go as fast as the Legacy.
Cheers,

Paul Hansen

You're killing me, Paul. Mmmmm...black XT, done and out the door. Yes, the XT would have to be black, stress and insanity be damned. The only question would be what to get for snow wheels, since my P1s are too nice for winter wheels. :lol:

Kevin

Sube has got my eye on the atlantic blue... :drool:

You know you want it! :twisted:

[Dr. Zevil]

There are euro pics on the www.subdriven.com site that show the outback in the atlantic blue. it's very nice indeed! It's worth considering for sure!

[bgsntth]

I'm actually leaning more toward the OBXT myself, as I'm thinking of leaving the suspension and brakes OE on my next ride. I think I've crossed the threshold where I'm no longer willing to make my daily commute car track worthy. Thoughts of a pleasant commute into the city, soaking-up rain gutters and broken asphalt, while enconsed in soft leather has its appeal. I know my wife will prefer the OBXT, as she has SUV on the brain.

I'm thinking of leaving the OBXT relatively stock (Momo shift nob and stromung cat-back-must hear to shift), and spending my mod money on a track-oriented Miata ($5K).

[Dr. Zevil]

I guess weight will be a consideration too. I don't want to drive a lead sled. if the XT weighs too much then I will go back to the GT wagon. Either way I am in for a treat!

[goneskiian]

Damn! I should have never read this thread! I thought I had made my decision. $#@%!!

:evil: :!: :lol: :lol:

I know it's more of an Edmunds thing but I think we need an OTFC (On The Fence Club) here to!

-Ian

[kage]

I don't think we could really initiate the OTFC without Paisan here. Personally I think the Outback vs. Legacy decision should pretty much be made on the basis of ground clearance. If you like it, need it, or want it, the Outback is your choice. Otherwise the Legover does it all for less.

[SUBE555]

I'm OTFC, but between FXT, WRX Wagon and Leggy GT Wagon. No OB XT in my book. :D

[rwitte]

I'm on about the same spot OTF as SUBE - WRX wagon or Legacy GT. A base 5MT GT is probably already going to be hitting the ceiling of how much I want to spend, I imagine the OXT will be beyond that ceiling.

Randy

[SUBE555]

Welcome rwitte. :)

I can't imagine that OB XT will be cheap. Particularly over a Legacy GT. OB's are always more expensive. It's gotta be that extra material to make that suspension higher and side cladding. ;)

[Th3Franz]

It's gotta be that extra material to make that suspension higher and side cladding. ;)
lol. Yeah, I liked the interior of the OB XT when we sat in it at Chicago. Someone at work has a recent model Outback sedan. It's so weird seeing a sedan, since I mostly only see wagons.

[*Jedimaster*]

Hey guys- just saw this thread- lots of good info- my OB XT Ltd. goes for about 960 more than a Legacy GT wagon Ltd., so if you want the OB version, it's not that much more.