View Full Version : Edmunds Inside Line review of 07 Spec B
AWD_Rules3830
05-29-2006, 03:35 PM
Those looking for some advanced looks at the upcoming 2007 spec.B take a gander at the following article from Edmunds.com.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=115529#8
melayout
05-29-2006, 04:16 PM
Nice find.
So it gets a 3.9 final ratio drive and a tall 6th gear, I can't wait for the EPA figures.
kenzo
05-29-2006, 04:35 PM
They didn't seem too impressed with the new Sub-Intelligent Drive feature:
"Intelligent mode, which Subaru reckons will improve real-world fuel economy by about 10 percent, took the legs out from under the car when squirting around in traffic. We figure any fuel savings garnered in Intelligent mode will be the result of simply taking fewer chances in traffic — the reduced boost and too-soft throttle response make it more likely to be caught with its pants down."
"...To be frank, SI-DRIVE appears to be the answer to a question no one asked."
"...We predict that drivers will play with SI-DRIVE for a day or two, then pick one mode and stick with it. It won't be Intelligent mode."
melayout
05-29-2006, 04:39 PM
They don't seem impressed because maybe they're delusional.
Intelligent mode = 20% less power = fuel economy = more likely to get caught with its pants down...what a novel conclusion.
AWD_Rules3830
05-29-2006, 04:50 PM
They don't seem impressed because maybe they're delusional.
Intelligent mode = 20% less power = fuel economy = more likely to get caught with its pants down...what a novel conclusion.
hahahaha:whore:
kenzo
05-29-2006, 05:22 PM
They don't seem impressed because maybe they're delusional.
Intelligent mode = 20% less power = fuel economy = more likely to get caught with its pants down...what a novel conclusion.
Yes, I'm sure that "Intelligent" mode is a great feature. Every "intelligent" person will want to give their $26-34K GT the performance of a Corolla in order to improve fuel efficiency to the level of... an Odyssey?
Th3Franz
05-29-2006, 05:47 PM
Hm maybe I don't want to be Intelligent. :lol:
"For the first time, the 2007 spec.B becomes a regular production model. Let's recap: The Limited, which was never really limited, remains so, and although last year's non-Limited version was limited, it isn't anymore."
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Deer Killer
05-29-2006, 07:00 PM
Lots of complaining about the chassis. Fifth gear seemed to like it well enough :/
Zsbaug24
05-29-2006, 07:47 PM
Sounds like SI Drive will actually be useful, and its good to hear the updates are gonna be worth it.
AWD_Rules3830
05-29-2006, 08:53 PM
looks like i did something useful other than started a thread that i get flamed for hahaha.
kanoswrx
05-29-2006, 09:04 PM
I like the new Spec B, but I think SI drive is pretty useless. If they really cared about fuel economy and all that it should just be a simple on off button for econ mode. Why make it sound like something all great and fancy. Personally I can manage my right foot just fine if I need to save gas.
vincedog3
05-29-2006, 09:16 PM
Edmunds pans the spec b. on 2006 MY. But Road and Track likes it enough in its AWD comparo. Interesting contrast here. The more I check out the MS6, the more I am glad I got the LGT. Nothing like having a true original. The 07 MY, won't make me jump over and buy that. But if in 08 MY they offer many more ponies, and a 6 spd,and the same economy,hmmm, that might me a different story.
vincedog3
05-29-2006, 09:17 PM
PS. Ditch the SI drive. Why would anyone want a 20 percent hit in performance??
02///M3
05-29-2006, 09:19 PM
Did anybody have trouble enlarging all of the photos? I really wanted to see what the new Limited GT wheels look like. That car is sick though.. I wonder how the SI Drive is going to effect aftermarket engine remaps :icon_conf Also, does anybody have a link to the 5th gear review of the Legacy?
PhilT
05-29-2006, 09:21 PM
Whatever mode you put SID in, you still have the same power, it just changes the band that is comes in at. What they should have done was to actually make it useful and give you more power in sport mode, or whatever it's called.
Another own goal by Subaru........yeah !
phoenix96
05-29-2006, 09:26 PM
"...We predict that drivers will play with SI-DRIVE for a day or two, then pick one mode and stick with it. It won't be Intelligent mode."
Probably true for a lot of people (it would be for me). And then you've still got that enormous cheap-looking knob on the center console.
I can see it now... Friends get in the car... "Oh, cool, is that one of those controllers for the navigation/entertainment system?" "No, it just makes my car go slower"
heightsgtltd
05-29-2006, 09:31 PM
Probably true for a lot of people (it would be for me). And then you've still got that enormous cheap-looking knob on the center console.
I can see it now... Friends get in the car... "Oh, cool, is that one of those controllers for the navigation/entertainment system?" "No, it just makes my car go slower"
:lol:
LGT Dave
05-29-2006, 09:53 PM
I was hoping for some comments on acceleration differences between the 5MT and 6MT. I figured there'd be something said if 0-60 required a shift into 3rd on the 6MT. I guess we'll have to wait a little longer still for performance numbers.
john_knoxville
05-29-2006, 10:39 PM
I like the new Spec B, but I think SI drive is pretty useless. If they really cared about fuel economy and all that it should just be a simple on off button for econ mode. Why make it sound like something all great and fancy. Personally I can manage my right foot just fine if I need to save gas.
PS. Ditch the SI drive. Why would anyone want a 20 percent hit in performance??
Whatever mode you put SID in, you still have the same power, it just changes the band that is comes in at. What they should have done was to actually make it useful and give you more power in sport mode, or whatever it's called.
your insider information notwithstanding, Subaru is touting SI-Drive to be more than just a fuel-saver. i recommend you re-read my post about it since you haven't read the latest issue of Drive:
http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=610140&postcount=34
NutBucket
05-30-2006, 01:08 AM
Lots of complaining about the chassis. Fifth gear seemed to like it well enough :/I attribute that to the Euro spec suspension vs. our US spec mushiness.
vincedog3
05-30-2006, 01:48 AM
hhmmm, good point John, but test data to show if the SID delivers for real will be the only way it will make a believer out of me. Time will tell.
sebberry
05-30-2006, 02:32 AM
I'd probably never use the SI drive control.. most likely set it and foget it. That knob should have been a navi system control...
"A new 60/40-split-folding rear seat retains a central pass-through. Convenient, but at what cost to chassis stiffness?"
I hardly think that it will reduce chassis stiffness with all the metal right above the seats at the rear deck...
One big plus is that they kept the pass-through even with the split, fold down seats. I wish my Outback had this... Ever go on a ski trip with 4 people in the car and no ski carrier on the roof? Can't do it in the wagon.
"Command central for Subaru's SI-DRIVE interface. This knob controls whether your 2.5 GT is slow, the same as last year, or the way it should always be. " :D :D :D
mphat
05-30-2006, 02:38 AM
If your looking for pics of the new LGT wheels go here... if it works this rather large link takes you to the Subbie Media Center.... http://vocuspr.vocus.com/vocuspr30/DotNet/Newsroom/MultiQuery.aspx?SiteName=SubaruNew&Entity=PRAsset;PRAsset;PRAsset;CUSTOM&PublishType=Press+Release;Product+Information;Prod uct+Specs;SubaruPhotos&XSL=ProductInfoNew&Title=Product+Info&SiteTitle=Legacy+Product+Info&SF_PRAsset_PRAssetType_Name=Legacy&Cache=False
AWD_Rules3830
05-30-2006, 02:51 AM
one thing i def dont like on the new LGT/Spec B is the UGLY gauge cluster ... i like the one we have now.
phoenix96
05-30-2006, 03:59 AM
"Command central for Subaru's SI-DRIVE interface. This knob controls whether your 2.5 GT is slow, the same as last year, or almost as good as Cobb stage 1. "
Corrected. ;)
wukindada
05-30-2006, 07:17 AM
Little steps....that is what SOA is making.
For the Subaru family....most of us are excited about the improvements but for the rest of American consumers all they see is HP & TQ figures dropping.
We all know this is using the new SAE calculation but come on.....SOA should have said.....Let's re-work the engine mngmnt & release with 260Hp / 260Tq
Think of the advertising potential.....
"In acceleration runs to 60.....Road & Track clocked the 05 Spec B @ 5.4 sec.....we just added a few more ponies to make it more interesting"
Look @ it this way everyone, If SOA released the same car & quoted 305Hp & 295Ft-lb we would be jumping up & down for joy.
Our ins. rates would increase....the stealthiness of our cars would start to slip away.....
I like the fact that for another 650.00 I can have a totally different animal.
Now come out with a 08 LGT Spec B STI with a turbocharged 6.....do us a favor rate it in the 295hp / 315Ft-lb range.....
That way ins. rates stay Uber low as they are now & for under 700 bucks I can have a 355HP / 360Ft-lb sleeper.
One thing SOA really needs to address is in the area of Dealer added power stages for there cars they are REALLY missing the boat there.
Dodge, GM, Toyota, are all doing it lets doooooooeeeeeet Subaru;)
Dealer installed factory warranty backed
Stage I.........Engine Mngmnt & SPT intake 280Hp/280Ftlb....900
Stage II.......UP & DP (HFC) & tweek to engine management 305Hp/300Ftlb......800
Stage III......Catback exhaust, Header, Larger TMIC, Sways & custom tune 330Hp/315Ftlb.......2200
These prices would not include Labor but do come with a 3yr36k warranty:)
heightsgtltd
05-30-2006, 07:22 AM
Think of the advertising potential.....
"In acceleration runs to 60.....Road & Track clocked the 05 Spec B @ 5.4 sec.....we just added a few more ponies to make it more interesting"
Save this post, you will need it for your case when they use this line in their advertising :lol: :lol:
As I stated in another post, touting the safety of this car alone will do nothing to rasie the profile of the company or its cars.
I remember maybe a year or so ago there were print ads that stated that the Forester XT could beat a boxster 0-60.
Why were they pulled? Maybe people wouldnt buy a forester based on that feature (as it is viewed as an suv), but do the same ad with a legacy GT and people will notice.
This is the 2nd review I've seen that mentions chassis flex on the Legacy. I wonder if I'll notice any difference when I get my Cusco braces installed?
praedet
05-30-2006, 02:49 PM
They are wrong, the chassis of the Legacy is stiffer than the STi, they are talking about the springs more than anything...
Ted
Did anybody have trouble enlarging all of the photos?
I did. You could only look at 1 ext shot.:iam:
IwannaSportSedan
05-30-2006, 06:04 PM
I think they fixed it now... I was having trouble, too. but now I can look at those ugly new wheels.
rc0032
05-30-2006, 06:11 PM
Moved to News and Rumors :iam:
sebberry
05-30-2006, 07:36 PM
This is the 2nd review I've seen that mentions chassis flex on the Legacy. I wonder if I'll notice any difference when I get my Cusco braces installed?
They didn't say it would flex more, they wondered if it might flex more...
It's Edmunds... the same guys who said the 2005 Legacy came with HID's in their little video, which thank god it doesn't. (Ok.. not to start another HID war here):iam:
leggyman
05-30-2006, 09:06 PM
They are wrong, the chassis of the Legacy is stiffer than the STi, they are talking about the springs more than anything...
Ted
This is not my experience so far with my 1.5 wk old STI. There's that dreaded, uneven place in my driveway that when I back the cars out makes the body structure of my LGT creak & groan like an aging frigate...which gnaws on me each and every time I pull the car in/out the driveway. My STI doesn't flex at all over this area.
Road & Track did a comparo of 7 AWD sedans in their 3/2006 issue, and they also said that, "{The LGT} can find its way around a track, too, despite moderate body roll and what feels like the least-stiff structure...." Pg 74.
sebberry
05-31-2006, 02:36 AM
This is not my experience so far with my 1.5 wk old STI. There's that dreaded, uneven place in my driveway that when I back the cars out makes the body structure of my LGT creak & groan like an aging frigate...which gnaws on me each and every time I pull the car in/out the driveway. My STI doesn't flex at all over this area.
Road & Track did a comparo of 7 AWD sedans in their 3/2006 issue, and they also said that, "{The LGT} can find its way around a track, too, despite moderate body roll and what feels like the least-stiff structure...." Pg 74.
Strange... I never have any problems with my Outback wagon, feels like the tightest Subaru body I have had yet, except for the suspension slop.
It's hard to tell the difference between suspension flex and body flex, IMO. Creaking and stuff can be due to cars being built tighter with less tolerance for gaps/etc... the slightest bit of flex can cause something to rub or creak.
Don't forget about those 8 layer, rebar re-inforced B pillars too :)
legandrex
05-31-2006, 07:09 AM
I would consider the chassis to be pretty stiff and the suspension is what is so soft. When you jack the car up from the front jack point the rear tire almost comes off the ground. The structure is firm, just not the suspension.
On a side note, the new Limited wheels would probably force me to get aftermarkets. They look like wheels from a Kia.
praedet
05-31-2006, 07:30 AM
^^^yep
Jacked at the driver side jack point yesterday of my wagon, 3 wheels off the ground. Jacked a STi up recently, did not happen...
Ted
You wanna talk about chassis flex, pick up a 93-01 GC/GM/GF impreza :lol:
I'm surprised Edmunds didn't show an acceleration/performance comparo in the article, something like: "The GT accelerated to 60 in 7.5 seconds and the Spec.B in 7.499, clearly not blah blah blah" This is afterall Edmunds, I know senior citizens who drive their daily drivers more agressively than Edmunds test vehicles :iam:
Max Rebo
05-31-2006, 12:42 PM
I was hoping for some comments on acceleration differences between the 5MT and 6MT. I figured there'd be something said if 0-60 required a shift into 3rd on the 6MT. I guess we'll have to wait a little longer still for performance numbers.
My guess is that the difference in acceleration between the 5MT and 6MT will be small. The 6MT has a longer final drive ratio (numerically smaller), and I think Edmund's mentioned longer gears overall vs. the STi 6MT. Thus, any gains that could be had from good, closely-spaced gears in a 6MT will be effectively neutered.
My guess is that the difference in acceleration between the 5MT and 6MT will be small. The 6MT has a longer final drive ratio (numerically smaller), and I think Edmund's mentioned longer gears overall vs. the STi 6MT. Thus, any gains that could be had from good, closely-spaced gears in a 6MT will be effectively neutered.
Less shifting=faster ET. Taller gears won't hurt as much as having 5-6 up shifts to get through the 1/4mi or 3 to get to 60. Give the STI a 5MT and it should be quicker.
kenzo
05-31-2006, 02:24 PM
Less shifting=faster ET. Taller gears won't hurt as much as having 5-6 up shifts to get through the 1/4mi or 3 to get to 60. Give the STI a 5MT and it should be quicker.
So a 4MT would be faster? A 3MT?
Max Rebo
05-31-2006, 07:38 PM
So a 4MT would be faster? A 3MT?
That's not how it works. It also depends on how much power a car has and at what rpms that power is produced. Longer gears are better utilized when you have a ton of power all over the rev range (i.e., an American V8). For example, HPA motorsports makes a twin turbo system for the R32. The stock gears are so short that the all that power wouldn't be utilized very well. They offer a longer/stronger gear set to make better use of the power. Short gears just aren't necessary when you have 550hp. :)
A 6sp would be nice in the LGT, but not a 6-sp with lengthened gears. That defeats the purpose. It isn't really necessary, anyway. Short gears are generally for motors with narrow power bands.
I've been driving an Outback 2.5i as a loaner car for the past few days. It has a 4EAT. It's slow as balls. That trans has very long gears. As a result, the poor car can't get out of it's own way to pass.
KayGT
06-01-2006, 10:01 AM
honestly with these fluctuating gas prices and sometimes driving in situations where you can't dodge traffic and take off....the SI drive will save a pretty penny in my opinion in the long run....only thing is that it will be unaccounted for....i'll be sure however to post my mpg in intelligent mode....for as long as i stay in it...heh ...probably the whole break in period....when i get my Spec B...
STiNGER
06-01-2006, 10:32 AM
It would be great if we could get an AccessPort to modify the SI drive maps, so we could get real economy and REAL performance. I might consider upgrading to a new car for that.
wacky
06-04-2006, 06:39 PM
Does anyone know if the 2007 will have a boost gauge option that matches the dash gauges?
Wacky
sebberry
06-04-2006, 06:45 PM
Does anyone know if the 2007 will have a boost gauge option that matches the dash gauges?
Wacky
Judging by the useless fuel consumption gauge, I would say no.
sebberry
06-04-2006, 06:50 PM
Judging by the useless fuel consumption gauge, I would say no.
Speaking of which, I just emailed SOA regarding the lack of boost gauge...
fzanetti
06-04-2006, 10:53 PM
Tx for sharing this out!!!!!
Great article....
Flavio Zanetti
Boston, MA
You could always use the Impreza guage... not all that useful for the typical Legacy buyer (reads in MPa) and looks like crap on the steering column but if you have to have guages...
sebberry
06-05-2006, 07:46 PM
Speaking of which, I just emailed SOA regarding the lack of boost gauge...
Thank you for visiting the Subaru Web site and for your message. One of the most exciting features of the 2007 Legacy 2.5GT Spec B Sedan is the Subaru Intelligent Drive System. This gauge that you are viewing on the instrument panel details the fuel economy of the three modes of the new Subaru Intelligent Drive System. Information on this new system can be found on our Web site with the photos of the 2007 Legacy 2.5GT Spec B Sedan.
I also asked about a Wagon:
There are no plans at this time to offer a Legacy 2.5GT Spec B Wagon. But, this does not mean that we will never offer such a model. I will forward your message to our Product Planning Department as a suggestion to offer a Legacy 2.5GT Spec B Wagon in the future.
So it looks like it is a static gauge based on the SI drive mode you are in? I dunno.. even more useless IMO.