Audio Signal Processor

[Adriftoc]

If this has already been talked about in a previous post I am sorry, but I looked threw a few and couldn't find exactly what I was looking for. I have been looking at the Rockford Fosgate 3SIXTY.1 for my 2005 Legacy. There are two reasons I want to get it. 1. I will EVENTUALLY replace everything audio in my car, except for the cd-player. I don't want a deck. 2. I want an AUX input for my mp3 players. The FM modulators are shitty. Is this a good product? can I use it momentarily with my factory speakers? Is it easy to install? Some help with this would be appreciated. Thanks.

MiKe

[mevanvt]

I also want to know if anyone has used the 3Sixty.1. I know someone here had the .2 and didn't like it. It just seems better suited for me because it has the center/sub channel out unlike the cleansweep.

[Boulderguy]

There is a long thread on here from someone who used one of the first off the production line. His experience wasn't great, but may have been part of RF working out the bugs. Search a couple months back.

[mevanvt]

There is a long thread on here from someone who used one of the first off the production line. His experience wasn't great, but may have been part of RF working out the bugs. Search a couple months back.

Yeah I have read that before. But that was the 3sixty.2 and not the 3sixty.1 I was wondering if someone has had a more current experience.

[tdjanke]

Yeah I have read that before. But that was the 3sixty.2 and not the 3sixty.1 I was wondering if someone has had a more current experience.

I appreciate your objective insight. Audio processors (from ANY manufacturer) can cause installation issues. Many people out there think they know all there is to know about car audio installs so when they come across a problem, they immediately blame the product. We have had hundreds of success stories as well as many people calling tech support with a supposed "product issue". We have had zero returned products due to any defects. Our tech department has always helped them troubleshoot their issue (which is always noise) with much success

I am kind of biased about the 3Sixty so I really hope someone in here has used it correctly and can provide you with the feedback you are looking for. Goodluck and let me know if you have ANY questions at all!

[Adriftoc]

Whats the big difference between the 3sixty products and JL Audio's cleansweep? All the car audio shops in my area sell cleansweep not 3sixty.

[tdjanke]

Whats the big difference between the 3sixty products and JL Audio's cleansweep? All the car audio shops in my area sell cleansweep not 3sixty.

Well it depends on which 3Sixty model you have in mind. The one most competitive with the CS is the 3Sixty.1

(CS) [3Sixty.1]

Inputs (4) [6]

Outputs (4) [6]

Summing (External - piece ($199)) [Yes, user selectable to sum or not]

# of EQ (120) [153]
bands

Aux in (Yes) [Yes] (3Sixty.2 gives you a 31-band EQ for the aux in)

Remote (Master Vol) [Master Vol or subwoofer (user selectable)]

Line driver (8V) [7.2V]

Price ($349 (I think)) [$299]

Here are some additional features that the CS does not have...

After OEM integration, the Palm (or soon Windows) device will show you the plot for each channel so that you can see for yourself it worked or even if you needed it or not. Some OEM's are actually flat!

After OEM in, we give you access to 15 wide Q filters so that you can tune the system. OEM gives you flat, flat doesn't always sound good, so you can tailor the system afterwards.

Output level control - each channel can be dialed in in 1 dB steps so you can adjust the output level of each speaker independantly

Mute any or all channels to allow turing on each speaker individually.

It has both high level and RCA inputs so you can use it with an aftermarket source.


That is the 3Sixty.1. You may have noticed that you do need a Palm OS (or soon windows mobile) device to set it up. It does work wirelessly using Bluetooth so you can adjust the system anywhere within the vehcle with NO WIRES!


The 3Sixty.2 ($599) has the following features:

Access to all 153 bands of EQ after OEM
- You can link the channels in pairs to tune left and right together or unlink them to tune them EACH independantly

31-band (independant) EQ for your AUX input, tune your iPod

HP/LP/BP filters from 50 ~ 10kHz (62 steps)
12/24 dB adjustable slope
Subsonic filter 20 ~ 35 Hz, 1 Hz steps

5' of delay per channel (2" incriments)

The abaility to save files on your controller for different tuning sessions, say SQ or SPL


The 3Sixty.1 is geared as an OEM integration device. It solves your OEM problem, then gives you some EQ control to tune. The 3Sixty.2 is an advanced signal processor that also does OEM integration. This tool is advanced and gives users (some say "too much") control.

Both CS and 3Sixty are products in a new line of OEM int devices that are going to grow in importance more and more. We hope you have all of the info you need to pick whats right for you.

[Pugsly]

How is the availability on the 3Sixtys? I heard it isn't that great since my audio installer has been trying to get one since February. He's not a Cleansweep fan and was looking for an alternative. From my understanding, his distributor has been giving him the run around and he just gave up. I don't have the complete story so I don't want to comment further.

We were planning on doing a comparison between the AudioControl RC8 and the 3Sixty. I have the AudioControl in my car now, and since he couldn't get ahold of a 3Sixty I bought a used cleansweep from the Marketplace. The AudioControl has been working great, and we did a test fit of the Cleansweep already. Just need to wait until he has some free garage time so we can install the Cleansweep and hear the difference.

[tdjanke]

How is the availability on the 3Sixtys? I heard it isn't that great since my audio installer has been trying to get one since February. He's not a Cleansweep fan and was looking for an alternative. From my understanding, his distributor has been giving him the run around and he just gave up. I don't have the complete story so I don't want to comment further.

We were planning on doing a comparison between the AudioControl RC8 and the 3Sixty. I have the AudioControl in my car now, and since he couldn't get ahold of a 3Sixty I bought a used cleansweep from the Marketplace. The AudioControl has been working great, and we did a test fit of the Cleansweep already. Just need to wait until he has some free garage time so we can install the Cleansweep and hear the difference.

I assume you mean the Audio Control LC8?

Let's put it this way... 3Sixty (OEM EQ + SUMMER + XOVER + DELAY +...)= Cleansweep (OEM EQ) + LC8 (SUMMER) :lol:

It does what each of those devices do and much more.

3Sixty's are shipping and have been since March 27th. The demand for this product is considerably higher than we expected. Due to this increase in demand our production facilites are scheduled to double the production of these units. These devices are out there, I'm not sure how the whole distribution network functions but I suggest that you don't give up, these devices will be headed your way soon, if not already!

[STi4E90]

In this discussion, I see the main manufacturers/products being evaluated as choices for our cars.

I have many audio parts laying around in my garage and came across an Audio Control EQS. I see that the LC8 was mentioned, but not the EQS. While I am prepared to purchase an OEM interface, I wanted to know if the EQS would also work. It has Front and Rear speaker inputs, but also has an EQ. Would the EQ on the EQS over-write the equalization of the Factory HU, so I could dial in the sound that I want?

Thanks for any insight you guys may have.

[mlrtime]

I have the CS and it is definitely an improvement over the stock HU. One thing I do notice is that a user adjustable EQ would be beneficial.

I understand the CS's only real job is to flatten the freq response from the head unit. Typically this should give you the best sound, however there could still be gaps due to the speakers and environment of the car. If you could adjust the bands using a RTA/EQ you could have flat curve at the source and inside the cabin.

To do this now I will need to buy another EQ to adjust the bands after the CS.

I'm not a expert in this field, I just know what my ears like and don't like :)

[pablo1b]

CS is made to flatten the response in any car, it's a closed loop system.

On the other hand, you usually don't need nor want a completely flat frequency response, unless you're in a sound studio or a lab. Most people preffer the sound of a subtle V or S shaped response curve.

[tdjanke]

CS is made to flatten the response in any car, it's a closed loop system.

On the other hand, you usually don't need nor want a completely flat frequency response, unless you're in a sound studio or a lab. Most people preffer the sound of a subtle V or S shaped response curve.

Enter 3Sixty :icon_mrgr

[tdjanke]

In this discussion, I see the main manufacturers/products being evaluated as choices for our cars.

I have many audio parts laying around in my garage and came across an Audio Control EQS. I see that the LC8 was mentioned, but not the EQS. While I am prepared to purchase an OEM interface, I wanted to know if the EQS would also work. It has Front and Rear speaker inputs, but also has an EQ. Would the EQ on the EQS over-write the equalization of the Factory HU, so I could dial in the sound that I want?

Thanks for any insight you guys may have.

Could you use it, YES but the install/tuning session involved would not be trivial. While you do have speaker inputs and an EQ, you lack the summing capability (add on an LC6/8). And how do you even know if a channel is full range and needs to be summed or not (add on or borrow someones RTA). Can you user the 6 parametric bands of EQ on the EQS to flatten, YES but I'd bet it would take some considerable time using an RTA to check your work. What if the left channel is different than the right (not always the case but sometimes done to overcome inadequecies of the car) Outta luck on that one.

Want crossovers? Make sure your amp can do the job. Want an AUX input for your iPod? Sorry, out of luck.

You can see that what you want to do is possible and could be a unique project for you but the products on the market today designed for OEM integration take in account all of the issues listed above, most done automatically for you in a few minutes.

[STi4E90]

Thanks for your response, sounds way more complicated that what I expected...So um, Metra here I come. I wanted to keep the oem look, but I will just use my old Eclipse 5444. The white led and red backlights will match enough.

[VTsullyman]

So there is no way around using a Palm to use the RF product? I would be willing to get it and use my laptop but i dont have a palm or a need to spend money on one. Someone told me that alpine has a OEM sound processor now. Anybody know anythign about it?

[tdjanke]

So there is no way around using a Palm to use the RF product? I would be willing to get it and use my laptop but i dont have a palm or a need to spend money on one. Someone told me that alpine has a OEM sound processor now. Anybody know anythign about it?

We are currently testing our Windows Mobile solution, which while doesn't work directly on a PC (designed for PDA's and smartphones), we will be testing it on free emulators available from Microsoft.

[IanKen]

We are currently testing our Windows Mobile solution, which while doesn't work directly on a PC (designed for PDA's and smartphones), we will be testing it on free emulators available from Microsoft.

Is this shipping yet? The one reason I discounted the RF stuff is the need for a Palm unit. However, I do have a tmobile MDA running WM5 with bluetooth. The ability to adjust on the phone would be very appealing.

[tdjanke]

Is this shipping yet? The one reason I discounted the RF stuff is the need for a Palm unit. However, I do have a tmobile MDA running WM5 with bluetooth. The ability to adjust on the phone would be very appealing.

The software is almost officially released. You can download the beta version's for free on our website.

read the first post of this thread on system requirements and to get up to speed:
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=25035

Go here to download Ver 0.2 of the software for your device:
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=25537

(This software will work on all 3Sixty's)

My plan to is release Ver 0.3 by this weekend and if all goes well, 0.3 will turn into 1.0 on our official launch.

[FishingFiend]

I've searched high and low to find out what kind of low pass crossover is available in the 360.1? The print I've found say it has some sort of lowpass on the subwoofer out, but that's it! If it does have one, what are the specs? Is it adjustable via handheld? I've got an old reference 500 I want to use to drive a 10w6, but the lack of a lowpass crossover on the soundstream pisses me off!:icon_mad:

I know the .2 is the one for me, but if I can save a little for the AP that's good too. :)

[tdjanke]

The 3Sixty.1 has no crossovers but it does have a band width limited subwoofer channel. The slope is 12dB/oct and the corner frequency is 200Hz.

3Sixty.2 has HP/LP/BP 50 to 10kHz in 12dB or 24dB/oct slopes.

[FishingFiend]

Thank you! You've now confirmed what I knew all along, I have to spend the money on the .2. Now I have the mental justification to get it. :)

[FishingFiend]

If it's not too much trouble to answer, why 200hz? Is this where most people set it? I've always tried to match the roll off of the door mounted mids. 60hz or so?

I'm guessing a higher end crossover upgrade in the .1 would canibalize .2 sales or is it because most sub amps come with x-overs these days? :)

[tdjanke]

It was set at 200Hz because most systems would never need a higher Xover point than that. 20~200Hz is a pretty "full range" response for a subwoofer. It's not really intended to be used without a crossover because subs do better when they're crossed over around 100Hz~ish (every system is different)

[FishingFiend]

Regardless of the lowpass xover, the .2 just provides so much more! My search is over, I'm picking up a .2 next week with hopes that the XP desktop client will be out soon.

tdjanke, would you know if the new Cingular Blackjack has been tested comptatible with the smartphone edition? No mention on the RF site yet.

[tdjanke]

the blackjack is not supported as of yet because he display dimensions are different from every other WM device available. We will release a version specificaly for this device in the near future, no date as of yet.

[FishingFiend]

the blackjack is not supported as of yet because he display dimensions are different from every other WM device available. We will release a version specificaly for this device in the near future, no date as of yet.

This is not good, I won't have anyway to control it. grrr I hope it's the near future, cause I don't know how long I'm willing to wait.

Has the desktop client (XP) been announced?

[tdjanke]

This is not good, I won't have anyway to control it. grrr I hope it's the near future, cause I don't know how long I'm willing to wait.

Has the desktop client (XP) been announced?

At CES we showed a preview of the windows solution. It wil be on the site this week for beta trials.

[FishingFiend]

The XP version is good news, but I'm truly bummed that the Blackjack is on the Windows Mobile Incompatible list. I believe this along with the Q and Dash are selling well. I hope you'll reconsider the priority of this fix.

[FishingFiend]

Got the 3sixty.2 installed and I love the flexibility, but had a nightmare time trying to get it to pair with anything but a palm. Please tell me a blackjack version is coming soon? I'm now the proud owner a worthless palm E2, I would really like to return this...

[tdjanke]

Got the 3sixty.2 installed and I love the flexibility, but had a nightmare time trying to get it to pair with anything but a palm. Please tell me a blackjack version is coming soon? I'm now the proud owner a worthless palm E2, I would really like to return this...

What application did you use to control your 3Sixty, Palm or Windows PC?

[FishingFiend]

I finally got it to pair when I went out and purchased a palm E2 along with the 2.1 version of the palm software. I tried 2 Dell Laptops, Toshiba Tablet, Dell Axion 51 and the Verizon Wireless XV6700 with no love... The windows version constantly runs into a COM port issue, while the PDA versions were hit or miss on even seeing the 3sixty.2 and when it could be paired, the application would not launch. Needless to say, I was aggitated that a $500+ device caused so much pain.

I'm on the Fosgate forum and I've been watching the threads. The COM port issue appears to be known while the PDA issue appears to be related to .Net 2.0 issues. I must add that once I got the palm E2, it worked perfect! Pairing and launching of the application was too easy, I just don't want or need a palm outside of the 3sixty.2.

[tdjanke]

Now you see!! Now you see the reason why we chose PALM. Everyone complained about Palm but Palm is the most stable/consistent handheld OS. We try to accommodate our customers by providing Windows solutions but as you have experienced first hand, Windows isn't as friendly.

As for the AXIM X51, I have one that I used to do development and it works just fine, no issues. All of the Widows Mobile software went thru a public beta as well and many, many customers used and tested it to help us work out the bugs and now is officially released.

Windows PC is in its BETA test. It explicitly states this when you download it as there are still bugs to be worked out. One thing that is constant in this equation is the 3Sixty hardware. The firmware in that device has not changed and works just fine. The variable is all the crazy idiosyncracies with Windows.

[FishingFiend]

Yeah, the palm worked perfect, but it's still a palm. I understand that coding for the palm os is much easier, but they are no longer the market leaders and they're losing share at an alarming rate.

Be it that I'm in the IT industry, I truly understand the complexities Windows adds to the developement process. However, it's a necesarry evil to continue this development. I hope to see a Blackjack/Q/Dash version in the near future...

The 3sixty.2 is an amazing product and I've wished for this type of control for many years. I'm now your spokesman for those who will listen. Fix the windows errors and there will be greater adoption of this technology. As in any product life cycle, the early adopters will suffer the most. I'm sure this will all be a moot discussion in the near future.

[Whirling Dervish]

Glad I found this thread; I'm having my 3sixty.1 installed on Tuesday. The installer does have a palm so we will be using that for the initial setup. After that's complete, is it really necessary to have further adaptability? My cell phone contract is up in October (Verizon) and I can change over to a palm if there's a real value to it.

Also, if I don't go with a palm and choose to stay with a bluetooth-enabled cell phone (LG, etc) will that give me the functionality that I need? I assume not, but I'd just like to be sure that I'm making the right decision. Thanks!

[112 dB]

I used a Palm 650 for almost a year, and recently (two days ago) moved to a samsung blackjack (after the palm was deemed to be too buggy to support by corporate IT).

I like Palm devices - I purchased my first one back in 98. That said, the Palm 650 is a horrible horrible phone (and the at+t / cingular network is pretty bad too).

As a PDA, it's really good though - better than my (non-bluetooth) Dell Axim.

I have not installed my 3sixty yet, but when I do, I'll use the 650. When (if) I leave my job and they want that phone back, I plan to spend the money to get a palm device solely for the purposes of tuning the 3sixty. Now that palm OS is end-of-life'd, I figure it should be easy to pick up a palm on the cheap. I've been looking for a deal on one of these devices for almost a year, no real luck yet..

I'd suggest that you consider buying a palm device for your 3sixty and then buy a decent phone, rather than trying to get both at once.:)

[tdjanke]

I used a Palm 650 for almost a year, and recently (two days ago) moved to a samsung blackjack (after the palm was deemed to be too buggy to support by corporate IT).

I like Palm devices - I purchased my first one back in 98. That said, the Palm 650 is a horrible horrible phone (and the at+t / cingular network is pretty bad too).

As a PDA, it's really good though - better than my (non-bluetooth) Dell Axim.

I have not installed my 3sixty yet, but when I do, I'll use the 650. When (if) I leave my job and they want that phone back, I plan to spend the money to get a palm device solely for the purposes of tuning the 3sixty. Now that palm OS is end-of-life'd, I figure it should be easy to pick up a palm on the cheap. I've been looking for a deal on one of these devices for almost a year, no real luck yet..

I'd suggest that you consider buying a palm device for your 3sixty and then buy a decent phone, rather than trying to get both at once.:)


Palm is not going "end of life". In fact, they are working on Palm OS II ( http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=13140 ).

[FishingFiend]

With all the tuning options available, you will want to tweak after the initial installation. I went through hell to get a MS pda to work. The palm interface is sweeter with less issues. I'm also looking for a used Palm just for tweaking.

I have the Samsung Blackjack and I have had no luck in getting it to work. If someone figures it out, please share...

Just read that you have the 3sixty1 and not the .2. The tuning options are limited, but you will still find alot of tuning options.

[biggggant]

Just had my 3sixty.1 installed and let me say its great. unfortunately I might not be able to follow my 6 month wait time to trash the factory mids and highs since the 3 sixty shows me how crappy they are :) sheesh hahahaahah but I love the way everything sounds. I actually had my sub installed for about a week before the 3sixty install and I was sorely disappointed in my sub . So at least my sub will be able to hang around for the time frame I have planned...


now the tuning options is a whole other story.... When my installer set up my 3sixty he used my Sprint Mogul. When I got home and wanted to tweak his settings my Mogul gave me stupid .net errors. A hard reset couldnt fix it. So my laptop with logitech dongle is my only way to tweak for now until I can get my mogul swapped out and see if that works. But let me tell you, when it was working on my windows mobile device it was a thing of beauty. So there you go theres my psycho babble about the device