Mods after Stage 2

[KartRacerBoy]

I awaiting my stage 2 parts for my LGT (Perrin UP, Cobb downw/ HFC, Cobb AP, Perrin midpipe & y-pipe into stock mufflers) and I'm thinking ahead. My next motor mod will probably be either a bigger TMIC or headers. First, which do you recommend. 2nd, are you planning on new AP maps for either mod I mentioned (2T or 2H)? Or do you think there is a different next step that might be more cost effective in gaining reliable whp?

[whitetiger]

TMIC first, then headers, then fuel pump, then injectors, 20g turbo and protune.

[AWDxBOOST]

im goin fmic+vf34

[j255c]

eh stick with the stock headers unless you want to loose the infamous boxer rumble. I'd recommend getting them ported and thermal coated from crucial :). BTW After Stage II you will realize other parts of the car are not meant for the power being put out (ie. suspension,brakes). Go that route before you start adding anymore power after cobb stage II flash.

[KartRacerBoy]

Oh yea, I agree. I was just dreaming ahead! And I was curious what the tuners themselves were planning. Helloooooo, PDX, anyone out there?

[PDXTuning]

We already have maps for the top mount with the full stage 2 setup, so I guess that is probably my first suggestion. In general we are not big fans of headers becuase they typically make gain at the expense of something else. We are going to test the new Perrin headers on a couple cars in the next couple weeks, so we will have more information about that shortly.

Beyond that you do have enough injector to run a VF 30,34, or 39 turbo, but you will have to change the IC and intake manifold to accomodate that style. Going with a FMIC can help with total power capacity, and aleviate heat soak, but may not make a ton more power on your current setup.

Jarrad

[PhilT]

eh stick with the stock headers unless you want to loose the infamous boxer rumble. I'd recommend getting them ported and thermal coated from crucial :). BTW After Stage II you will realize other parts of the car are not meant for the power being put out (ie. suspension,brakes). Go that route before you start adding anymore power after cobb stage II flash.

Are there any unequal length headers on the market, so that you can keep the Boxer burble ?

[DaktheRipper]

Beyond that you do have enough injector to run a VF 30,34, or 39 turbo, but you will have to change the IC and intake manifold to accomodate that style. Going with a FMIC can help with total power capacity, and aleviate heat soak, but may not make a ton more power on your current setup.

Jarrad

Have you worked with an avo or any other tmics? i remember reading that tmics produce more power.:redface:
oh and where can i find info on the VF models? 18, 20s are the only way i can measure turbos.:icon_lol:

[KartRacerBoy]

Thanks Jarrad. Could you be a little more specific about what the trade offs are with headers.? And when are you going to update your website to show maps for stage 2T? I was thinking of a TMIC down the road, but more for protecting my motor on the track than for substantial power gains.

Am I correct in believing the bigger IC doesn't itself make power? Rather, you can increase boost and modifying timing more aggressively with a bigger IC knowing that you have more cooling of the intake charge and therefore more protection against detonation.

[DaktheRipper]

Am I correct in believing the bigger IC doesn't itself make power? Rather, you can increase boost and modifying timing more aggressively with a bigger IC knowing that you have more cooling of the intake charge and therefore more protection against detonation.

i knew that it wasn't the actual IC that made the power, i had what you said in mind but yeah that makes sense to me!!:icon_bigg

[legacy_y_tu]

<snip>...........And when are you going to update your website to show maps for stage 2T? I was thinking of a TMIC down the road, but more for protecting my motor on the track than for substantial power gains.

.

Their website is up to date, what you're looking for is their Stage 1.5T. :icon_tong Check out the components on the purchase tab to see what the Stage consists of.

[KartRacerBoy]

Their website is up to date, what you're looking for is their Stage 1.5T. :icon_tong Check out the components on the purchase tab to see what the Stage consists of.

No, actually I am waiting for stage 2T data since the gains might be more or less than 1.5T with a full catback exhaust. Maybe not, but before I drop $800 plus installation, I want to be sure.

[legacy_y_tu]

No, actually I am waiting for stage 2T data since the gains might be more or less than 1.5T with a full catback exhaust. Maybe not, but before I drop $800 plus installation, I want to be sure.

Aaaahh okay. I kinda forget about the turboback when talking Stage 2 since it's not totally required.

[PDXTuning]

Oddly we have not tuned the AVO LGT TMIC yet. Since we are not AVO dealers all our customers who upgraded the TMIC chose the Perrin TMIC. We actually saw nice gains with the Perrin TMIC, and would expect comperable gains from the AVO unit.

This thread has most of the information that everyone is looking for. I know that we did the testing of the stage 2T, but I can't seem to find the information right now. I will have to look for it when I get back from vacation.

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8241

If you look you will see that the TMIC actually opened up a bit more peak HP, while the stage 2 car had more torque. As I recall the combination had the torque peak of the Stage 2 with the HP peak of the 1.5T.

The VF turbos I listed are all about the same size as a 16G.


Jarrad

Have you worked with an avo or any other tmics? i remember reading that tmics produce more power.:redface:
oh and where can i find info on the VF models? 18, 20s are the only way i can measure turbos.:icon_lol:

[KartRacerBoy]

Looked at the thread. Some good information,and I agree a bigger TMIC is great for safer performance, but I would still like to see the curves for the dyno run on the 2T setup. It's been over a year since the thread you referred to. Why the delay in posting the dyno run info, guys? Its a great sales tool by itself, and the shape of the torque/power curve is what sold my on a 2T setup rather than a stage 1.5T. I'll be autocrossing the car and I love torque down low!

Dyno curves, please! (And thanks for the info!) Enjoy your vacation.

[AWDxBOOST]

Beyond that you do have enough injector to run a VF 30,34, or 39 turbo, but you will have to change the IC and intake manifold to accomodate that style. Going with a FMIC can help with total power capacity, and aleviate heat soak, but may not make a ton more power on your current setup.

Jarrad
i was under the impression that the stock injectors are more than capable of running a vf34

anyways, thats just from dan at mach v....he also told me i wouldnt make 300whp with a fmic and a vf34 :rolleyes:

[mccorry]

Wow... I might have to back out of the race and stay at Stg. 2. The mods get alot more expensive as you go! :lol:

[KartRacerBoy]

^ You bet. I'm thinking after stage 2, the cost of any additional hp/tq gains go up by the square or cube power. But I do think the Perrin or AVO TMIC is worthwhile before or after stage 2 just to keep the motor safe if you really beat on the thing, whether you get a lot or a little hp/tq gain out of it. But the reason I picked stage 2 over 1.5T is the torque curve on stage 2; the torque is greater and comes on much lower in the rev range. I don't want the addition of a TMIC to make the same or more hp/tq but move it higher in the rev band. I doubt it would but I just want to see the dyno results to confirm it before I blow a big wad of (my wife's) money.

[DaktheRipper]

^ You bet. I'm thinking after stage 2, the cost of any additional hp/tq gains go up by the square or cube power. But I do think the Perrin or AVO TMIC is worthwhile before or after stage 2 just to keep the motor safe if you really beat on the thing, whether you get a lot or a little hp/tq gain out of it. But the reason I picked stage 2 over 1.5T is the torque curve on stage 2; the torque is greater and comes on much lower in the rev range. I don't want the addition of a TMIC to make the same or more hp/tq but move it higher in the rev band. I doubt it would but I just want to see the dyno results to confirm it before I blow a big wad of (my wife's) money.

well what other engine mods could you install to gain more hp... the only thing that comes to mind is bigger turbo/injectors and what not, but if you got one of those then wouldn't you need a bigger IC to accommodate?

[rpm6500]

i was under the impression that the stock injectors are more than capable of running a vf34

anyways, thats just from dan at mach v....he also told me i wouldnt make 300whp with a fmic and a vf34 :rolleyes:

Jarad said that the stock injectors are capable of running those turbos but you would have to change other things...
RPM

[Xenonk]

Id go with the headers.. something tells me that you may end up itching for a FMIC instead of a TMIC one day if you are already looking at gaining this much power already..

[DaktheRipper]

Id go with the headers.. something tells me that you may end up itching for a FMIC instead of a TMIC one day if you are already looking at gaining this much power already..

are you saying that fmics hold more power then tmics? i thought because of the tubing length or because of the shape( i remember readind that it's better to get a wide IC then a long one) they loss some hp.

[KartRacerBoy]

Id go with the headers.. something tells me that you may end up itching for a FMIC instead of a TMIC one day if you are already looking at gaining this much power already..

Silly Xenock. Haven't you realized by this time I just like to stir things up?:icon_bigg I might go to the Perrin/AVO TMIC, but any other mods after that will be much more considered. I'm afraid of making the car too radical and uncivilized for daily driving. Not to mention I might hurt myself (again) with all that power.:icon_bigg

[AWDxBOOST]

Jarad said that the stock injectors are capable of running those turbos but you would have to change other things...
RPM
other things like what?

all you need to get the max outta the vf34 is injectors and a fuel pump. modded injectors would suffice easily

i have a feeling ill be quite happy with a conservative tune with a vf34 and fmic :) im aiming for 300awhp, nothing earth shattering

[rpm6500]

other things like what?

all you need to get the max outta the vf34 is injectors and a fuel pump. modded injectors would suffice easily

i have a feeling ill be quite happy with a conservative tune with a vf34 and fmic :) im aiming for 300awhp, nothing earth shattering

"Beyond that you do have enough injector to run a VF 30,34, or 39 turbo, but you will have to change the IC and intake manifold to accomodate that style." -Jarad

That reads to me that the Stock fuel stuff can work the VF34, but you will need to install intake mani, intercooler... All stuff we all know here. I think you may have originally mis-read his original comment and I was trying to correct the misunderstanding. He says that you DO have enough injector.

Your plan for 300WHP with the VF34 sounds awesome. Good luck.

[AWDxBOOST]

ohhh i see what your sayin...haha my bad

btw im doing a fmic with a wrx style turbo fitment so i can use the stock mani, otherwise you gotta switch your manifold and tmic to the sti type (or fxt)

[VTGT]

Yeah what are the real gains of an upgraded fmic or tmic over stage 2? I think it is a good idea though if it means your engine is runningsafer and nets u few more ponies (not trying to sell out 600+ though)

[LittleBlueGT]

I have IONs header/UP.

It has no loss on the low-end and decent gains on the high-end.

Headers will lose power on the low end if not tuned properly, but will gain everywhere if tuned.

[praedet]

^^^How is the sound on the iON Headers? LittleBlueGT

[wukindada]

Borla headers here....gained a little down low......alot more up top. This of coarse was after Jon @ TDC was done tuning it:)

As far as intercooler's go....look into TDC's Water TMIC little to no additional lag & no heatsoak;)

He's working on 3 of them right now....you could be next in line!

[LittleBlueGT]

^^^How is the sound on the iON Headers? LittleBlueGT

Pretty much the same. Still on stock exhaust though, so hard to tell.

They are not equal length.

When I get my TBE I will have sound clips galore!