2007 Subaru Line

[praedet]

Here is the post from the local Subaru dealer on our local forum. If it is wrong, it is bacause Subaru lied to him. He is a very stand-up guy...

Ted
Just went to a dealer meeting on Friday.

B9 Tribeca: electronic brake assist, mp3 jack, xm satellite radio, 8 way seats w/memory, black grille or mesh grille, (new nose in 2008) rear vision camera, backup sensor, remote start, 3 new colors.

Legacy & Outback: aux jack for ipod, mp3 cap,pre-wired for xm,split fold down seats in 4 dr,remote start,new 17" wheels, 2 new colors. base outback with manual seat and steel wheels for $22,900.
(Rumor mill: If Subaru brings in the R2 micro car, they might make the Legacy line 4 doors only and the Outback would be our only Legacy wagon. So if you want a 5 speed GT wagon you better snap up a 2005 because that might be it..)

Impreza: sirius satellite radio prewire,mp3 cap, ipod jack. STI Limited edition..has sunroof, small rear spoiler like an old 3 series BMW, black brembos.

Forester: alloys on all models, sirius satellite radio,mp3 cap,ipod jack,3 new colors.

Also: new impreza in 2008 built off Legacy platform, Tribeca nose job, Legacy grille change won't happen in 2007, hybrid turbo in 08 or 09 diesel 09 or 10, 2006 is it for the BAJA

[gfxdave99]

Thats sound in line with a lot of what i have been reading in magazines. Im glad the 07 legacy isnt getting destroyed.

[agctr]

Sounds all pretty straight forward. Only thing I dont think is correct is a new nose for the Tribeca in 2008, this would SERIOUSLY upset ppl that had purchased a Tribeca in 2006/2007 and there is no need to change something that is so new. Then again anything is possible
Thanks for the info.
Ada///M.

[gfxdave99]

Sounds all pretty straight forward. Only thing I dont think is correct is a new nose for the Tribeca in 2008, this would SERIOUSLY upset ppl that had purchased a Tribeca in 2006/2007 and there is no need to change something that is so new. Then again anything is possible
Thanks for the info.
Ada///M.

Well other then its a face only a mother could love

[andrew.anderson]

R2 in the US? Not so sure it would sell. It is weak.

[petmor]

I'm thinking about the aux jack for the Ipod. Sure hope it'll come as an accessory for our "old" models too.

[heightsgtltd]

OK, so if true, TOTALLY pissed about the split rear seats in the sedan and the aux in.

I still don't understand why they would split Sat radio compatibility within the range of cars. I guess the impreza is still built in Japan and the legacy in the US, but They would be the only one doing that. Every other company uses XM or Sirius through their range despite where it is built. Very strange.

[team23jordan]

finally subaru's doing it right
took them little long

[agctr]

Agreed.... I would just LOVE to know who the engineers/designers talk to about these weird designs both external and internal as I have NEVER seen a survey form ever and I spend more time in SA & STi Australia than most.
Ada///M.

[twisted]

hmm remote start...for both manual and auto or auto only??? i wonderz

[Jon [in CT]]

If Subaru brings in the R2 micro car, they might make the Legacy line 4 doors only and the Outback would be our only Legacy wagon.That makes a lot of sense. Who would buy a Legacy wagon if the R2 were available?

[IwannaSportSedan]

Here is the post from the local Subaru dealer on our local forum. If it is wrong, it is bacause Subaru lied to him. He is a very stand-up guy... Ted

Although this is completely unverifiable, I will take your word on this. It seems in line with what others have said. Opie even mentioned that the Legacy would be getting something it deserved in the first place...

I am going to give my take on these in-line, and get the non-Legacy stuff out of the way first.


Just went to a dealer meeting on Friday.

B9 Tribeca: electronic brake assist, mp3 jack, xm satellite radio, 8 way seats w/memory, black grille or mesh grille, (new nose in 2008) rear vision camera, backup sensor, remote start, 3 new colors.

Most of this we've already heard... so I will treat this as confirmation, which is good.

MP3, Memory seat, and blacked-out nose-job, and possibly the rear-vision camera and sonar are probably what I would consider the best addition. Full nose job might be worth waiting for, though.

Remote start... give or take... and the question is is this key-in-your-pocket start or keyfob-from-a-distance start?
Electronic brake assist? dunno...
Satellite capability... Good, I am glad they offer it, but I would probably refrain from paying for radio. I am glad they offer the option, though.


Impreza: sirius satellite radio prewire,mp3 cap, ipod jack. STI Limited edition..has sunroof, small rear spoiler like an old 3 series BMW, black brembos.
Forester: alloys on all models, sirius satellite radio,mp3 cap,ipod jack,3 new colors.


Will be interesting to see mentioned BMW-like spoiler... Black brembos, huh? interesting that they won't be going with the silver brembos on the upscale version.

It will also be interesting to see these new paint colors on all these new cars.


Also: new impreza in 2008 built off Legacy platform, Tribeca nose job, Legacy grille change won't happen in 2007, hybrid turbo in 08 or 09 diesel 09 or 10, 2006 is it for the BAJA

Not really suprised that Baja is getting stuffed. Surprised it hasn't already, since the rest of that chassis is out to pasture.

2008 Rumors:
New impreza on Legacy platform... been waiting to see that. Been rumored for a while. Hopefully it it leaked and shown at auto shows this time next year. Top Gear or EVO recently marked the Impreza as a technically very good car, but the shape and interior are "the subject of archeologists." or something to that effect. They are bored with it, and want a replacement, evidently.


Legacy & Outback: aux jack for ipod, mp3 cap,pre-wired for xm,split fold down seats in 4 dr,remote start,new 17" wheels, 2 new colors. base outback with manual seat and steel wheels for $22,900.
(Rumor mill: If Subaru brings in the R2 micro car, they might make the Legacy line 4 doors only and the Outback would be our only Legacy wagon. So if you want a 5 speed GT wagon you better snap up a 2005 because that might be it..)


OK, the big interest.
AUX, MP3, Satellite radio, XM (again why with the split?) are all previously rumored, and VERY nice to be confirmed here.

My question still stands about remote start... I am thinking it is long-distance. They evidently are going really hard down-market with the Outback.

I want to see the new wheels as soon as anybody 'inside' can post pics. This should be interesting.

rear fold down seats in the sedan... THIS is probably what Opie was referring to, as what should have been included in the first place. Oh, and BOOO-YAH! I am waiting for this feature! With the iPod input, and the Spec B 6MT... This makes the trifecta.

Hopefully the Tribeca's seat memory and ACC dials will make the trip, too. If they black out the tribeca's schnozz, will they black out the legacy's grille, too?

UNLESSSSS.... one of those additional new colors mentioned is either San Remo Red, or WR Blue. Then, as long as it has a dark colored interior, it is a slam dunk for added features, unlike last year.

This rumor about the R2 coming to the US, and precluding Legacy wagons... is perplexing, though.

I think eliminating the Legacy wagon in the US (you KNOW they won't be doing that in Asia or Europe...) is not necessarily good.

If they were to offer the 3.0R in the Legacy sedan, I could see them cancelling the outback sedan, not that I would think it a great idea... But killing the Legacy Wagon would be REALLY a bad idea. Not everyone wants a tall wagon, even if the ride height is the only difference. I can see a few people buying, and immediately lowering Outback XTs that way.

R2s might do ok in the cities, and college campuses, but not really in the 'fruited plain.' The Legacy wagon would do better on the wide open spaces.

[dougc]

DAMN, so Subaru is going to be offering XM in their new cars and not Sirius...that sux. They should give their customers a choice of which they prefer and have it installed for them. If I were buying an '07, I wouldn't wanna give up my Sirius and definately don't wanna pay the $100 for a converter.

[fweasel]

hmm remote start...for both manual and auto or auto only??? i wonderz
Could be both... there is a neutral sensor wire in the 5MT.

[heightsgtltd]

DAMN, so Subaru is going to be offering XM in their new cars and not Sirius...that sux. They should give their customers a choice of which they prefer and have it installed for them. If I were buying an '07, I wouldn't wanna give up my Sirius and definately don't wanna pay the $100 for a converter.


If you read the first post again, it actually says XM in the leggy and sirius in the Impreza. That's why we are allo confused.

[dougc]

oh i missed that...geez why just the Impreza...that's kinda stupid IMO.

[Double-V]

Lots of info in there - thanks!

I am wondering what will become of the Legacy GT wagon in Canada for '07. I want to pick up a 5MT, but was planning on waiting a year or so (my car is only 7 years old with 160k kms - barely broken in). If they are going to ditch the 5MT for '07 like they did in the US for '06, then either I move my plans up or shop elsewhere. Anyone have info on the Canadian lineup?

[PGT]

R2 in the US? Not so sure it would sell. It is weak.

Honda is bringing the Fit and Toyota the Yaris.

[fzanetti]

R2 in the US? Not so sure it would sell. It is weak.

R2's will be a success in the US, at least in the big cities in the Northeast...

Like Mini Couper and Audi A3, they sell tons of those cars up here...

IMHO perfect car for NYC tough parking spots....

;-)

Too bad no more 5MT or even 6MT LGT Wagons :-(

Flavio Zanetti
Boston, MA

[fzanetti]

Honda is bringing the Fit and Toyota the Yaris.

I have driven the Honda Fit in Brazil, and believe it or not, it feels as roomy as a CIVIC from the inside driver's side....

And counting that commuting, you are driving pretty much alone, unless you do HOV lanes, it's a perfect big city/commuter car!!!!! No more SUV, huuuuge gas guzzlers buses!!!!!

We are really changing the ways people buy cars in the US for sure, look at Scion!!!! Small cars, youth kids loooooooove it and they sell a looooooot

Flavio Zanetti
Boston, MA

[fzanetti]

Lots of info in there - thanks!

I am wondering what will become of the Legacy GT wagon in Canada for '07. I want to pick up a 5MT, but was planning on waiting a year or so (my car is only 7 years old with 160k kms - barely broken in). If they are going to ditch the 5MT for '07 like they did in the US for '06, then either I move my plans up or shop elsewhere. Anyone have info on the Canadian lineup?

Try to buy an 05 man...

Looks like no more 5MT wagons in the future!!!!! So if you want a sport wagon in the future, prob will need to go for either Volvo or Audi... Well, there is always the Magnum SRT8 (yeah right!!!)

hehehehehe

Flavio Zanetti
Boston, MA

[tintinet]

The lack of MT high performance wagons is a big miss, IMO. I have searched high and low for a reasonably priced, reliable, MT wagon several times over the past several years. The 05 MT LGT wagon was a great find (emphasized during my drive through an ice storm to go skiing with my kids this weekend), and I'm really disappointed to see it go.

[fzanetti]

The lack of MT high performance wagons is a big miss, IMO. I have searched high and low for a reasonably priced, reliable, MT wagon several times over the past several years. The 05 MT LGT wagon was a great find (emphasized during my drive through an ice storm to go skiing with my kids this weekend), and I'm really disappointed to see it go.

You are not the only one tintinet, however SoA doesn't see it that way....

Mitsu Evo Station Wagon is coming to the States soon though...

Flavio Zanetti
Boston, MA

[tintinet]

The new EVO designs look hot, and a wagon would be excellent, if SOA can't see the light. I hope their safety ratings are better than past generations of EVO, though.

[jj808]

Shit, i want fold down seats and an AUX in for Ipod. If the new color is Rally blue... I wonder if i could offload my 05 LGT in 07 and not loose my butt.

[gfxdave99]

Shit, i want fold down seats and an AUX in for Ipod. If the new color is Rally blue... I wonder if i could offload my 05 LGT in 07 and not loose my butt.

New colors are Hot pink and gay pride rainbow

[GetAwayDriver]

New colors are Hot pink and gay pride rainbow

I just spat 7-Up on my computer :lol:

Great info from the OT... Honestly, I hope our car doesn't get the WRB treatment. I think that color is a bit too... youthful... for the LGT.

[jj808]

OT: Dude, i saw a light pink 7th gen Toyota Celica GT-S this weekend. Tell me that isnt a stock color.

[Double-V]

Try to buy an 05 man...

Looks like no more 5MT wagons in the future!!!!! So if you want a sport wagon in the future, prob will need to go for either Volvo or Audi... Well, there is always the Magnum SRT8 (yeah right!!!)

hehehehehe

Flavio Zanetti
Boston, MA

I figure the '07 lineup and features should be known fairly soon, so I can probably locate an '06 5MT GT wagon in the summer if Subaru ceases to offer it in Canada in '07 like they did in the US in '06.

[twisted]

New colors are Hot pink and gay pride rainbow

finally jedi has a reason to own 2 new subarus:lol:

[KA81]

rear fold down seats in the sedan... THIS is probably what Opie was referring to, as what should have been included in the first place.


im gonna be skeptical until a few more people confirm this, seems like only a few people have


hope this isnt a rumor though

[Jedi Pimp]

I wonder if the up pipe will be catless with the air pump like the WRX is this year.....

[kanoswrx]

Kind of sad to see the impreza based off the same platform as the legacy. Not that the Legacy platform is bad. I just loved the size of my WRX. I think a lot of people still enjoy it's smallness and nimbleness. i think it will loose something when it goes to the larger platform. I guess subaru wants to save money more though. will be very interesting to see what it will look like though. Really wish they would bring back a WRX Coupe.

[Xantium]

New colors are Hot pink and gay pride rainbow

pretty sure those are forester only colors

[OCDetails]

You know... I was talking to a guy at the Subie dealership last weekend while getting my oil changed. He said that in the same meeting back in 2005 they were told that the STi would have 350 horsepower and the WRX would get bumped up to 265. That came from over the pulpit directly from SOA in the meeting. They were proven wrong enough that nobody trusts the information they get from that meeting anymore...

[ATB]

Re: no 5MT/6MT wagons

I guess I will be holding onto the WRX for a bit longer and will get an A4 Avant or Volvo V50 or V70 instead. I had originally thought that Audi Avants were no longer offered in MT, but according to the audi usa website, the 2.0T and 3.2 both are avaible with a 6MT. And the s-line in black sure looks sexy. And not too shabby MPG, either.

If subaru would make a 3.0R b-spec wagon this fall I would be there ready to trade in the WRX. Oh well.

As for the A2 replacing the legacy wagon. Some of us are looking for more space, not less. We are outgrowing our WRX wagon and need a bit more space. A step down to an A3 sized car will not cut it. And I dont want to step up (literally) into an outback wagon. Thanks again, SOA.

[leggyman]

XM radio? Sunroof in an STI? New colors?? ...That's all nice, but I wanna hear about POWER. Any bump in pwr for the LGT? How about the STI? Evo makes more power this year, which is scary considering that last year's model Evo put more to the wheels than the STI. Apparently SOA doesn't believe that an extra 20-25 HP will sell more STI's than a sunroom and black brembo's?

[Jon [in CT]]

Any bump in pwr for the LGT?What if the LGT's rated power for the 2007 model is less than that of the 2006 version? Will you [hopefully] consider suicide?

[leggyman]

']What if the LGT's rated power for the 2007 model is less than that of the 2006 version? Will you [hopefully] consider suicide?
?

Hehehe....yeah....(scratches head)

[Jon [in CT]]

Hehehe....yeah....Well, you'd better put your affairs in order now.

[leggyman]

I will consider suicide a valid option if the 2007 model features both a pwr decrease AND the B9 beak.

Now puh-leez, Jon [in CT], get back on your meds.

[SLegacy99]

Kind of sad to see the impreza based off the same platform as the legacy. Not that the Legacy platform is bad. I just loved the size of my WRX. .

Yeah Im not sure how I feel about this either. Especially since A WRX will be my next car. Perhaps a pre owned will be in order.



As for the fold down seats, whats the deal? I thought both Subaru and Toyota deemed them unsafe?

[Jedi Pimp]

']What if the LGT's rated power for the 2007 model is less than that of the 2006 version? Will you [hopefully] consider suicide?

What...are you hinting that Subaru is going to use SAE rating for bhp in 2007??

[sebberry]

Ditching the Legacy wagon???? I hate StupidOA!!!!

****.. one thing that Subaru has had all along since the day they introduced the Legacy (and older cars) was a wagon... they are morons..

However, in January they sold 1222 Legacy sedans and 3574 Wagons, 3202 of which were Outbacks... hmmm... I dunno..

maybe they should just drop the Legacy/Outback line alltogether and sell us rebranded toyota's...

[sebberry]

I still think that Subaru looks too much at their sales numbers and not enough at what their customers want.. You can't measure success of a product or potential success of that product or option if you don't offer it.

Hmmm.. Let's not put the navi system with the 5MT or in a wagon, a typical family roadtrip vehicle - nobody seems to be buying it! I wonder why...

Hmmm.. let's not offer the 5MT in a wagon with the turbo - people seem to be content with having it only in the Sedan.. Hmmm.. I wonder why.. that's all that people can find!

These people need a shake-up!

[IwannaSportSedan]

Keep in mind, guys... these are rumors until we hear solid confirmation.

The removal of the Legacy wagon is probably the rumor with the LEAST confidence rating, as it hasn't been mentioned in any other rumor thread. I certainly hope it isn't going to be true. Plus it would be a shotgun blast amputation to the foot, where canning options last year was just a flesh wound.

Just out of curiousity, sebberry... (I am not saying this to flame, I am curious...) did those figures say how many of the sedans were outbacks? IF (and a big, honking IF) the Legacy wagon goes the way of the dodo, the Outback sedan likely will, too, and all wagons will be outbacks, and all Legacys will be sedans. Again, huge monsterous RUMOR.

BTW... I think I have to defend the possibility of WRB being a newly offered color on the Legacy. Incidently, it sounds like the whole lineup may be getting a couple new colors...

I can see where people would think it too "youthful". But it wouldn't be the only color in the lineup... I doubt they'll be getting rid of black or silver. Blue will probably stay, just a matter of whether it will be the same blue, and the same question about the red. White will likely stay, but it doesn't seem to be the hugest seller. It might be classic enough to stick around.

I just hope the new colors aren't slight re-hashes of current colors. A slightly different color flake to the black, with a new name, doesn't really constitute much of a difference. A slightly different toned silver (again) doesn't move the bar much. And a sand-beige color would be a travesty on the Legacy. Leave that for the LLBean buyers.

I see a few volvos, Lexus ISs, BMWs, MSP6 and a couple other sporty sedans around with a few variations on a nice bright red. I would go for that.

But WRB... Take a look in some of the Legacy Pics forum threads, and find some photos of the WRB Legacys available in Asia/Japan. They look AMAZING in WRB. Don't let the WRX STI fool you. It looks boy racerish, because it IS boy-racerish. It is the wing(s) and the vertical front fascia, and the fender flares, and all manner of other things that make it look "youthful". The paint color isn't nearly so limited, and on the Legacy, it is downright sexy-sophisticated.

I am actually pretty excited to see what 2007MY brings for the Legacy... Most of the rumors here (aside from the wagon issue...) seem quite positive.

Things we have yet to hear anything on, or confirmation of:
New headlights?
New Grille?
New Tail-lights?
Any other cosmetic nips/tucks?
New interior lighting?
New spoiler?
New/better ACC?
Telescoping steering column?
uprated horsepower?
Option differences between LGT and Spec B (NAV optional on both, I hope)
VDC (rumored for all automatic Legacy models...)
Any other detail changes that perhaps weren't over-arching enough for breif leaks to this forum...


BTW:
For those worried about a Legacy-based impreza:
1: it is more than a year away, we have no concrete info.
2: wheelbase and chassis hardpoints can, and likely will be shortened/lightened for a separate line of cars. The car may not be much bigger nor heavier than current. (could possibly be lighter.) Plus it should be tighter and handle better than current platform, which is aged.
3: the Legacy-line, and the Impreza-line won't be the same size. That would be redundant for Subaru to do.

[Jon [in CT]]

What...are you hinting that Subaru is going to use SAE rating for bhp in 2007??Yes, the new SAE hp measurement standard.

Edit: Let me elaborate.

SAE revised its J1349 net horsepower standard on 08/04 and it officialy went into effect on Jan 1, 2005. California requires the use of J1349 if power is advertised in brochures, etc. (see http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d03_6/vc9950.htm). All 2007 Subaru models will be rated using the J1349 (Rev 8/04) standard.

[SWP-LegacyGT]

To address some questions:

Things we have yet to hear anything on, or confirmation of:
New headlights? From the sound of it, chrome with optional HID
New Grille? Nope, '08 will see the new grill
New Tail-lights? no, again '08 see's the new exterior updates
Any other cosmetic nips/tucks? No, updates as far as spoiler or other body work.
New interior lighting? LED lighting said to be used instead of halogen bulb (rumor but has some fact to it)
New spoiler? no new spoiler, however look for the Legacy STI to have the JDM STI option as spoiler.
New/better ACC? Same.
Telescoping steering column? '08 will see this feature
uprated horsepower? '07 no, '08 is supposed to be rated @ 280+BHP, LegacySTI to be 330-350BHP (as the '08 STI rating is supposed to be 350BHP-390BHP to stomp the Evo X.)
Option differences between LGT and Spec B (NAV optional on both, I hope)
VDC (rumored for all automatic Legacy models...) From what I heard, the Spec B is supposed to go into "main model" production meaning that is a "premium" option of the Legacy brand, rather than a limited production car (as the '05/'06 produced were). Look for it to have full leather, 2 colour options, NAV, bluetooth, heated and cooled seats, HID (as stated above).

As for VDC expect the LegacyGT models and up to get them with variable on/off/adjustments from what I hear.

Any other detail changes that perhaps weren't over-arching enough for breif leaks to this forum... well... okay just a few. ;)

The Impreza line for '08 is getting the LegacyGT tranny with either the option for the 5 speed auto sports shift for the new 6 speed auto Subaru is going to bring out for the '07.5/'08 Tribeca/Legacy/Impreza line. Most likely you'll see the Impreza (RS as I still like to call them) will see the 5 speed manual / 5 speed auto. Subaru is killing the 4 speed auto after model year '07. As far as HID options, I know Subaru is bringing them to the Spec B in '07 production year with the possibly of adding them as an option for '07 GT's, however... as I stated above, since the Spec B is going to be a dearler "option", they may just lump the HID's in with that. If not in '07, look for LegacyGT's and up in '08 to come stock with HID's and auto leveling equipment to meet DOT standards in the US. The rumored H6 turbo engine as far as I know for the US is a no go due to emissions. Subaru is going to be using the 2.5 Litre engine here with turbo and get more agressive on it's tuning to bump the horsepower/driving experience past what most german car companies offer. I know adverts for the Legacy GT here in the states has been slim but look to see an aggressive campaign start for them this summer/fall.

That's all the Subbie Fairy has told me for now. :)

[jonnyg113]

I want mp3 jack.... mmmmm

[heightsgtltd]

Assuming your sources are legit, sounds interesting.

Pissed off about some of the options that were not available on my 05, but interested enough in the specs for the '08 to think about trading mine in when that one comes out.

I am surprised a bit at the continued use of the H4 in the uprated models. It wont stop us, but if they are trying to sway buyers from other brands they really should have a 6 to compete with the other guys. Many buyers do not think that they should be spending 35-45K on a car with a 4 cylinder regardless of the prodigious power output.

What about the newer uplevel outbacks? They will just continue with the NA H6?



To address some questions:

Things we have yet to hear anything on, or confirmation of:
New headlights? From the sound of it, chrome with optional HID
New Grille? Nope, '08 will see the new grill
New Tail-lights? no, again '08 see's the new exterior updates
Any other cosmetic nips/tucks? No, updates as far as spoiler or other body work.
New interior lighting? LED lighting said to be used instead of halogen bulb (rumor but has some fact to it)
New spoiler? no new spoiler, however look for the Legacy STI to have the JDM STI option as spoiler.
New/better ACC? Same.
Telescoping steering column? '08 will see this feature
uprated horsepower? '07 no, '08 is supposed to be rated @ 280+BHP, LegacySTI to be 330-350BHP (as the '08 STI rating is supposed to be 350BHP-390BHP to stomp the Evo X.)
Option differences between LGT and Spec B (NAV optional on both, I hope)
VDC (rumored for all automatic Legacy models...) From what I heard, the Spec B is supposed to go into "main model" production meaning that is a "premium" option of the Legacy brand, rather than a limited production car (as the '05/'06 produced were). Look for it to have full leather, 2 colour options, NAV, bluetooth, heated and cooled seats, HID (as stated above).

As for VDC expect the LegacyGT models and up to get them with variable on/off/adjustments from what I hear.

Any other detail changes that perhaps weren't over-arching enough for breif leaks to this forum... well... okay just a few. ;)

The Impreza line for '08 is getting the LegacyGT tranny with either the option for the 5 speed auto sports shift for the new 6 speed auto Subaru is going to bring out for the '07.5/'08 Tribeca/Legacy/Impreza line. Most likely you'll see the Impreza (RS as I still like to call them) will see the 5 speed manual / 5 speed auto. Subaru is killing the 4 speed auto after model year '07. As far as HID options, I know Subaru is bringing them to the Spec B in '07 production year with the possibly of adding them as an option for '07 GT's, however... as I stated above, since the Spec B is going to be a dearler "option", they may just lump the HID's in with that. If not in '07, look for LegacyGT's and up in '08 to come stock with HID's and auto leveling equipment to meet DOT standards in the US. The rumored H6 turbo engine as far as I know for the US is a no go due to emissions. Subaru is going to be using the 2.5 Litre engine here with turbo and get more agressive on it's tuning to bump the horsepower/driving experience past what most german car companies offer. I know adverts for the Legacy GT here in the states has been slim but look to see an aggressive campaign start for them this summer/fall.

That's all the Subbie Fairy has told me for now. :)

[IwannaSportSedan]

To address some questions:

First off, THANKS! :D :D This is a lot of info.

I am going to add my comments inline..

Things we have yet to hear anything on, or confirmation of:
New headlights? From the sound of it, chrome with optional HID
Chrome... meh. HIDs GOOD! Gonna have to figure a way of blacking them out or something...

New Grille? Nope, '08 will see the new grill
New Tail-lights? no, again '08 see's the new exterior updatesI was hoping for a mesh grille or something in the same opening, as I realize the 08 will be the visual update.
I was hoping for a mesh grille or something a little more sporty and less "pedestrian" for the GT, in the same opening, as I realize the 08 will be the visual update.

Any other cosmetic nips/tucks? No, updates as far as spoiler or other body work. <-Snip-> However look for the Legacy STI to have the JDM STI option as spoiler.
Non-spoiler sedan for me, K2 gear spoiler instead. fine by me.

New interior lighting? LED lighting said to be used instead of halogen bulb (rumor but has some fact to it)
This could be interesting... Hopefully it will be more widely used, and light the interior well.

New/better ACC? Same. Telescoping steering column? '08 will see this feature
Unfortunate on the ACC. Tribeca's three digital dials look great... wonder if it could be fabbed and retrofitted... probably not cheaply. Sounds like everything truly substantial will be reserved for '08. I don't think I can wait quite that long, and I doubt it will be that drastic of a let down, actually. :D

uprated horsepower? '07 no, '08 is supposed to be rated @ 280+BHP, LegacySTI to be 330-350BHP (as the '08 STI rating is supposed to be 350BHP-390BHP to stomp the Evo X.)
Interesting. Pumping over 350hp out of 2.5 liters, even with a turbo, reliably will be interesting to see. It sounds like most current LGTs could be rated at 280hp right now, as the 250 figure is conservative. It will be interesting to see, and should produce some interesting fodder for modifications.

VDC (rumored for all automatic Legacy models...)
As for VDC expect the LegacyGT models and up to get them with variable on/off/adjustments from what I hear.
This is interesting... Adjustment and defeatability. Nice. Auto only or both Auto and Manual?

Any other detail changes that perhaps weren't over-arching enough for breif leaks to this forum... well... okay just a few. ;)
The Impreza line for '08 is getting the LegacyGT tranny with either the option for the 5 speed auto sports shift for the new 6 speed auto Subaru is going to bring out for the '07.5/'08 Tribeca/Legacy/Impreza line. Most likely you'll see the Impreza (RS as I still like to call them) will see the 5 speed manual / 5 speed auto. Subaru is killing the 4 speed auto after model year '07.
6EAT for 08 sounds nice... 07.5 Model year? Are they planning on cars coming out early for 08, like spring of next year?

The rumored H6 turbo engine as far as I know for the US is a no go due to emissions. Subaru is going to be using the 2.5 Litre engine here with turbo and get more agressive on it's tuning to bump the horsepower/driving experience past what most german car companies offer. I know adverts for the Legacy GT here in the states has been slim but look to see an aggressive campaign start for them this summer/fall.
Interesting that they aren't going even with a NA H6 in the Legacy line. That would perhaps appeal to folks looking at other V6 sedans, and their notions that more pistions are always better, regardless.

I'll be happy with a flat-four-turbo, though. :D

Of course the government would be the one to put the kybosh on the turbocharged H6... Damn bureaucrats spoiling it again. Probably some menial little thing, or testing being too expensive for FHI/SOA to undertake...

Spec B stuff: (I think this is what I am going to try to shoot for...)
From what I heard, the Spec B is supposed to go into "main model" production meaning that is a "premium" option of the Legacy brand, rather than a limited production car (as the '05/'06 produced were). Look for it to have full leather, 2 colour options, NAV, bluetooth, heated and cooled seats. <-Snip-> As far as HID options, I know Subaru is bringing them to the Spec B in '07 production year with the possibly of adding them as an option for '07 GT's, however... as I stated above, since the Spec B is going to be a dearler "option", they may just lump the HID's in with that. If not in '07, look for LegacyGT's and up in '08 to come stock with HID's and auto leveling equipment to meet DOT standards in the US.
That's all the Subbie Fairy has told me for now. :)

Do you mean that Subaru is doing what I have been suggesting all along? :D (yah... I am just kidding. but it would be cool if they had read my posts here for the last half a year or more, saying that the Spec B should be a trim-line/Option package, though.)

Sounds like it gets standard NAV. Meh. I was hoping that would be optional for those who want it, and might be left off of mine, to save me some cash. Bluetooth, though sounds really nice. I wonder if it will be stereo bluetooth compatible... Not going to push my luck, as an audio input is a thankful addition. (albeit a late one.)

Heated AND cooled seats? tre posh!

2 color options... Exterior color options? Exterior and interior color combos? or full LGT paint color choice, with two interior color options? Third option would be the best... and trump the Mazdaspeed6's color options, but again, not holding my breath.
I hope the paint color choices are more vibrant than grey/silver, is all.

Would love to hear what the colors will be, but I understand if people don't know, or can't divulge that yet.

I would hope that HIDs be optional on GTs, and perhaps standard on Spec B, as it seems to be the loaded-up version, 6MT, and all. (wagon version for the wagon folks, too, hopefully.)

I hope that Subaru has looked at the slow sales of the 06 Spec B, and included the '07 Spec B equipment mentioned at roughly the same price that it currently has, or perhaps an option price that tops out a thousand or two less than 06 Spec B MSRP. It will still be a stretch for me, but with the sort of optional equipment being mentioned here, it might well be worth that stretch... I guess we'll see.

Subaru beat the Audi A4 down on price/value for performance arguments in the recent AWD sport sedan test in R&T. It would be nice if the Spec B price didn't go up, and Subaru kept that edge, and added to it with the 07 Spec B trim level, and the options people are talking about here.

Any word on Spec B trim ball-park pricing, and if it will be available from day one (june) or later availability (september, like 06 Spec B...)?

And i am sure people here are still wanting confirmation or denial of the Legacy Wagon issue brought up previously.

[Dash_78]

I just picked up my Spec B a month ago. Is the conclusion here that I should have waited for the 2007 model year? I'm new to the site, so any guidance here would be appreciated.

Thanks

[heightsgtltd]

I just picked up my Spec B a month ago. Is the conclusion here that I should have waited for the 2007 model year? I'm new to the site, so any guidance here would be appreciated.

Thanks

Don't sweat it. First off, we don't know how much of this will actually come to fruition. secondly, stuff you buy always becomes obsolete more quickly than you would like, but you can never wait enough to have everything, or else you will never buy the car. Wait..isnt that what iwannasportsedan is doing? :lol:

I bought my 05 last summer and wanted factory nav. but it wasnt available. Unfortunately, it came out on the 06s.

Such is life. Enjoy your new car and don't waste precious driving time worrying about this.

There is always the idea of trading it in for an 08 that will have more toys than the 07 did. :lol:

[mach_six]

R2's will be a success in the US, at least in the big cities in the Northeast...

Like Mini Couper and Audi A3, they sell tons of those cars up here...

IMHO perfect car for NYC tough parking spots....

;-)

Too bad no more 5MT or even 6MT LGT Wagons :-(

Flavio Zanetti
Boston, MA

A cheaper alternative to the Mini, I would prefer the Mini Cooper S for NYC driving and parking. They should bring over the R2 Type S, 67HP with a s/c.
Still kind of weak though and I can't imagine 4 passengers in it.

already got aftermarket support too, at a premium of course to import.
http://www.subaru-giken.com/r2.htm

[kenzo]

...
Enjoy your new car and don't waste precious driving time worrying about this.
...

If we all followed this advice there would be precious few posts here.

:D

[SWP-LegacyGT]

First and foremost... HOLY JUNK this thread is about to get out of control. :lol: I'll try and answer line items like you did Sport. :)

I was hoping for a mesh grille or something a little more sporty and less "pedestrian" for the GT, in the same opening, as I realize the 08 will be the visual update.

Agreed. Unfortunately for Subaru, they do not see the need to create a new SKU # for a new grille as the '06/'07 B4 (Impreza) grille is rumored to be making its way stateside for the Subaru platform refresh.

Interesting. Pumping over 350hp out of 2.5 liters, even with a turbo, reliably will be interesting to see. It sounds like most current LGTs could be rated at 280hp right now, as the 250 figure is conservative. It will be interesting to see, and should produce some interesting fodder for modifications.

Easily done actually. The 2.5 Litre engine as it currently stands (from what I'm told) can effectively handle about 19 PSI - 21 PSI without breaking a sweat. Doing so can net from 250BHP (as it is tuned today) all the way to 370HP while staying in target range of emissions. I think Subaru might go for a larger TMIC (possibly) for the '08 GT due to the power available and avoid heat soak. That being said, the scales on which I stated is what is being talked about by Fuji Industry / Subaru. The reason why no H6 Turbo is being talked about is exactly what was stated, emissions control were a problem for "most" states in the US where they can get away with it in a 4 banger. Sad... but true.

6EAT for 08 sounds nice... 07.5 Model year? Are they planning on cars coming out early for 08, like spring of next year?
Yes from what I've heard the '07.5/'08 GT's are getting a 6EAT (yes, that's 6 gears) in them. Also the GT will be getting the 6 speed from the STI as well. I'm not sure about the outbacks (see XT) if they'll keep the matched 5EAT for the time being or jump up to the 6EAT. I still haven't gotten confirmation on the wagon issue (as far as availability of them) however.... since Subaru sells mostly outbacks in my neck of the woods (Northwest) it would REALLY suprise me if they pulled the Legacy GT Wagon / Manual SKU anytime soon. We'll have to wait and see though. :D

As far as production goes, they are going to push '07's out in June/August of this year with early model '08's (we'll have pictures of the true '08 designs by Q4 of this year) coming sometime May/July of '07. Subaru is going to be VERY aggressive with it's platform refresh and is going to market the hell out of them. :D


Spec B Clarification on colours, options, availabilty and such[\quote]

So here's the deal, the Spec B as stated earlier is going to be a dealer option you can have when you order the car. Think of it as a "premium" package as you'd get on a car except with a price tag of $4500 (min) from what I'm hearing. however you get a lot with that. Nav, power seats, heated and cooled seats, bluetooth, HID w/ auto leveling. Now the colour options as I stated are going to be interior colour options. Two tone gearing up for the Legacy STI debute sometime in Jan. '07 at the Tokoyo Auto Saloon. Expect the red to make a return with black accents and what I hear rumored (again, I have yet to confirm this) is a slate grey/dark navy option as well.

Colours wise the "vaulted" WRB on the LegacyGT Spec B in '07 is not going to happen. You're going to need to wait till the '08's to see that. (Oops, might have said to much. ;)

[quote]Options to be sold on the GT
Again, don't know if Nav is going to be optional but I would assume that you could "possibly" get "media" bundles of things. Per se if you got the Nav + Bluetooth. Lighting add on for probably $599-799 for the Xenons (HID) if that happens. Also expect different wheel choices from the dealer as some have called the GT wheels "boring" in nature. That's all I can say about that for now. ;)


That being said, I'll keep you guys posted on what I get in. I've got an '05 GT and trading or selling it for an '08 (pending the grille, options and price) is starting to look VERY tempting. :D

[IwannaSportSedan]

Colours wise the "vaulted" WRB on the LegacyGT Spec B in '07 is not going to happen. You're going to need to wait till the '08's to see that. (Oops, might have said to much. ;)

Also expect different wheel choices from the dealer as some have called the GT wheels "boring" in nature. That's all I can say about that for now. ;)



DAMN, DAMN, DAMN!

WRB in 08. I don't think I can wait that long. Especially with the nice options that the 07 seems to be assembling.


At least the colors seem to be getting better. It does sound like the Spec B will be in all the GT colors, with red/black, or Black/darkBlue interiors. Nice. Especially if it is pairable with Regal Blue over black/darkBlue leather.

It will certainly be interesting to see what the new exterior colors will be, and the new non-boring wheel designs.

4500k option price for all that... Sounds like a chunk of change. But perhaps well worth it for everything that you list. A nice bright red might make me not so sorry about being unable to wait for WRB. :D

Hopefully it will be easier to get something like that under MSRP, rather than being held out as such a premium limited edition run... I guess we'll see.

I can't say that I am dissappointed with the info so far. (aside from that whole WRB for '08 thing, :icon_tong ) I am looking forward to hopefully being a 07 LGT or Spec B buyer and owner... Unless something falls through. But so far everything is on track for an August timeframe...

[IanKen]

As long as they address the damn rattling dash I'll be happy.

[gfxdave99]

As long as they address the damn rattling dash I'll be happy.

Ralph : Address the damn rattling dash
Norton : Hello Damn rattling dash....

[SWP-LegacyGT]

As long as they address the damn rattling dash I'll be happy.

I fixed mine when I did the DRL disable. :D

[LegGTLT]

PDX- I'm coming down to Portland to be a part of this secret society you have going down there. I got an '02 GT, then went '05 GT, so it looks like an '08 GT STI it is for me!!! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE be true.............

[team23jordan]

08 GT STi
if its true
i'm gonna probably get 09 or so
we'll see!

[MDork]

You are not the only one tintinet, however SoA doesn't see it that way....

Mitsu Evo Station Wagon is coming to the States soon though...

Flavio Zanetti
Boston, MA

more info on this !?!?!

i BADLY want an sti/evo wagon to replace my honduh as a daily driver. having two hot wagons and the hottest hatch would make me teh happy.

[Jedi Pimp]

The Evo IX wagon is a limited JDM run of 2500 units until this December. Its not coming over here, especially since the last lancer wagon production was pulled because of lack of interest.

[MDork]

what about evo x?

[skibum]

.... I still haven't gotten confirmation on the wagon issue (as far as availability of them) however.... since Subaru sells mostly outbacks in my neck of the woods (Northwest) it would REALLY suprise me if they pulled the Legacy GT Wagon / Manual SKU anytime soon. We'll have to wait and see though. :D



Wait...the Legacy GT Wagon/Manual has already been "pulled" in the US, are you saying it may be reintroduced in '07??? Please say it is so!

[SWP-LegacyGT]

Wait...the Legacy GT Wagon/Manual has already been "pulled" in the US, are you saying it may be reintroduced in '07??? Please say it is so!

Well from what I know (thus far) the only wagon you can get in the GT as of now is the auto. That's for '06's as it stands however I would not be suprised if the manual wagons come back for the '07/'07.5 year ramping for the '08.

Either way I'm fairly confident that the '08 GT STI will come in the 6 Speed manual / 6 Speed Auto across the board.

Wagon and Sedan.

[LegGTLT]

When can the little birdy that's talking to you show some spy pics PDX?:icon_bigg I don't mean specifically the '08 LSTI (DAMN, that rolls off the lip sooooo smooth: L S T I... ahhhhh) but rather just anything!!! You have a great source it sounds like, so as people always say:

:needpics:

j/k:lol: Keep that info flowing buddy! We all enjoy it...

[skibum]

Wow. Let's hope!

[ion]

Wow - this thread (and all news) sounds awesome. Damn - maybe I should save the money (and avoid mods) for an 08' LGT STI. Thanks for the info PDX - I'm drooling already. :icon_bigg

[Two-Five Sti-L]

Personally, I'm in the same boat as Iwantasportssedan where I'm waiting to see what improvements are made for MY07's. Very glad to hear that it'll come w/the ipod jack and mp3 features, also fold down seats are about damm time!!!

My guess for the 2 new colors are 1. Forest/Dark Green and 2. Dark Gray/Gunmetal similar to the 05' Sti's. This would be my color of choice unless it comes in a taupe interior. Also, I'm willing to bet that WRB will initially be offered only on spec B models, since it is a sporty color that would match best w/its highest sport model.

So the front grille and rear tailights gonna stay the same for 07'? I don't mind the "boring" front grille, since it can be replaced easily w/aftermkt. My bigger concern is the tailights, hopefully it doesn't follow the WRX and change over to the Alcheeza style ones.

PDX - Any idea of what the 08' Legacy front-end will look like? Hope it doesn't follow the same Alfa-Romeo path as the Tribeca and WRX!!!!!

HID's will be optional on GT's and up? If so, any guesstimate on how much this would cost? If more than $500 might as well install it from after-mkt.

Hopefully the 07's will come w/VDC, but my gut feeling is no.

As for increase in HP for 08', I don't really care for the "STATED" increase since we all know this # can be easily boosted w/mods, esp. given what PDX said about the motor's stoutness. On the contrary, a lower factory hp rating is better for insurance rating purposes. ;)

Lastly, I'm a bit confused about the 6-spd tranny. Is it supposed to be offered in ALL 08' LGT models, or just the Spec B? If just spec B then I'll probably just bite the bullet and get an 07 regular LGT, since spec B would be at least $6k more considering all the additional features thrown in.

[SWP-LegacyGT]

All these questions make PDX- go something-something. :lol:

[fzanetti]

All these questions make PDX- go something-something. :lol:

He might have swapped his LGT for an S4!!!

Hahahahahahah

Flavio Zanetti
Boston, MA

[Spec B #127]

OT: Dude, i saw a light pink 7th gen Toyota Celica GT-S this weekend. Tell me that isnt a stock color.

I used to own a 2001 GT-S, and I can tell you light pink was definitely not a stock color.

[mkaresh]

The saleswoman I deal with just came back from the "Grassroots" meeting. She says the same as the initial post, but also that none of it is set in stone. Just what SOA thinks they might do.

She did offer the first reasonable explanation I've heard. The average Subaru dealer sells about 20 cars a month. Since they don't want more than three months inventory, and less if possible, they can only stock about 60 cars, tops. In 2005 they had 68 different powertrain/model combinations, so they couldn't even stock one of every car.

This said, there's always the special order route, but apparently only the Germans care for this strategy.

So she thinks there's a fairly good chance no Legacy wagon or Outback sedan for 2007.

She also said all the dealers wish they'd added even a few horses to the Spec B, because as is they're hard to move. The only one this dealer had received was sitting in the showroom.

[sebberry]

Subaru would be foolish to discontinue the Legacy wagon in favour of the Outback sedan... then again, these are the guys who brought you the Baja... (sorry red beast)

I kinda feel for the dealers too.. for a couple of years I was involved in a franchise operation where head office did jack all to properly configure and promote their products which ultimately led me to close my store. As slimey as salespeople can be, they need to make a living too...

I really hope Toyota can help turn Subaru around - and not by building cars at SIA and giving Subaru royalties, but by helping them build a stronger brand and achieve more product awareness. This is basic high-school marketing class stuff here.

The Japanese auto makers have long copied and refined other designs for their use and have done a pretty good job of it, including their marketing. Subaru always wanted to be different in this respect, but shouldn't have let it spill over into their marketing efforts.

[mkaresh]

Subaru would be foolish to discontinue the Legacy wagon in favour of the Outback sedan... then again, these are the guys who brought you the Baja... (sorry red beast)

No one has suggested they'll discontinue the Legacy wagon in favor of the Outback sedan. Both of them are likely to go.

She said they've had no trouble selling the Legacy wagon, including the manual when it was avaiable. They didn't sit on the lot. The Outback sedan, on the other hand....she said they had four they couldn't get rid of, "Do you want one, please?????"

[ilh]

She said they've had no trouble selling the Legacy wagon, including the manual when it was avaiable. They didn't sit on the lot.This is the part I don't get. They've had no trouble selling the Legacy wagon, manual and automatic, and yet they want to discontinue it?!?

[fzanetti]

This is the part I don't get. They've had no trouble selling the Legacy wagon, manual and automatic, and yet they want to discontinue it?!?

Send them a letter/email and ask them...

I guess it all comes down to reduce costs, bigger margins, etc etc etc...

Flavio Zanetti
Boston, MA

[Tommyh]

Either way I'm fairly confident that the '08 GT STI will come in the 6 Speed manual / 6 Speed Auto across the board.
Wagon and Sedan.

If that is true and everything that you've posted is true (I have no reason to doubt you), it looks like I may be upgrading in '08....


...do you think I could get an '08 LGT-STI-Wagon without leather and sunroof?

[Tide]

07 Tribeca announced today at Chicago. XM and iPod, refreshed grill, and a Special Edition model.

Looks good for Legacy to gain XM and iPod!

[Claw]

Here's a snippet from Autoblog on the '08 B9 Tribeca.

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/02/09/chicago-auto-show-revamped-2007-subaru-b9-tribeca-world-premi/

[Jon [in CT]]

Here's a snippet from Autoblog on the '08 B9 Tribeca.The 2008 B9 Tribeca is never mentioned in that article.

[MarcusDubya77]

still doesn't change the front fascia, which IMHO is one of its downfalls

[Jon [in CT]]

I think the mesh grille on the 2007 B9 Tribeca Special Edition (http://vocuspr.vocus.com/VocusPR30/DotNet/Newsroom/ViewAttachment.aspx?SiteName=Subaru&Entity=PRAsset&AttachmentType=F&EntityID=99833&AttachmentID=1b6dca8e-1e0d-4f8e-a099-0b249b2cfc60&NewWindow=True) looks good.

[SWP-LegacyGT]

Looks really good actually. :)

[etc]

but hypothetically if, the styles of Legacy wagons are the same from 06 to 07, could one then replace the radio/temp unit from an 06 to one from an 07 to gain the XM and mp3 jack?

[fzanetti]

but hypothetically if, the styles of Legacy wagons are the same from 06 to 07, could one then replace the radio/temp unit from an 06 to one from an 07 to gain the XM and mp3 jack?

Good idea!!!!

I hope we will be able to do that!!!

Flavio Zanetti
Boston, MA

[sjg]

The new grill coloring (standard or mesh) seems to draw less attention to itself and that is a good thing. Generally this is an improvement. Less effective than a total redesign but much cheaper. We'll see what it does for sales.
Anyone know it it offers true iPod connectivity/control or does it simply have a line-in jack. Both would be welcome but the line-in is less exciting.

[BrownBoy]

Is the input going to be across the board, or just the higher end models? I would love to swap out my current single disc for one w/ aux input. I cant get a GT hvac/radio fascia....

[Claw]

']The 2008 B9 Tribeca is never mentioned in that article.

Yep, you're right.. my bad. I can't read nor can I type.

[axis008]

Subaru is to offer Sirius radio for the Forester, Impreza, and Outback Sport: http://www.subdriven.com/news/publish/Subaru_News/article_457.shtml

Subaru is to offer XM radio for the Legacy/Outback and Tribeca: http://www.subdriven.com/news/publish/Subaru_News/article_458.shtml

I don't get why they didn't just contract one company...

[sebberry]

Subaru is to offer Sirius radio for the Forester, Impreza, and Outback Sport: http://www.subdriven.com/news/publish/Subaru_News/article_457.shtml

Subaru is to offer XM radio for the Legacy/Outback and Tribeca: http://www.subdriven.com/news/publish/Subaru_News/article_458.shtml

I don't get why they didn't just contract one company...

Becauae the head units in the Forester and Impreza (including the OB Sport) are made by Clarion who I understands has a deal with Sirius.

The Legacy, OB and Tribeca are North American built cars with Panasonic stereos. I don't believe panasonic has a contract with XM, but they might.

I don't get why it isn't the consumer's choice.

[legacy_y_tu]

']I think the mesh grille on the 2007 B9 Tribeca Special Edition (http://vocuspr.vocus.com/VocusPR30/DotNet/Newsroom/ViewAttachment.aspx?SiteName=Subaru&Entity=PRAsset&AttachmentType=F&EntityID=99833&AttachmentID=1b6dca8e-1e0d-4f8e-a099-0b249b2cfc60&NewWindow=True) looks good.

Does look better. I suspect that's one of the new colors to be offered too...I like it!!

[IwannaSportSedan]

blacked out grille doesn't look much different, put perhaps a slight improvement.

Mesh grille looks better. Now if they could only put a recessed mesh grille on the Legacy in the US.

[sebberry]

I wouldn't want a mesh grille on my Outback... just shows how hard it is to please everyone.

I think that Subaru could really benifit from having customizable cars more than anyone right now.

Their sales volumes are low in comparison to the competition (which might not be bad for Subaru) and their buyers seem to be more enthusiasts than appliance drivers. If someone is buying a Camry, they will buy a Camry. If someone is looking at buying a Ford 500, there is no swaying them to Subaru.

Subaru buyers want choices and options - If I could have ordered my Outback with cooled Alcantara seats, MP3 playback and some other smaller changes I would have been really happy that I got what I want. Yes this might affect resale slightly down the road, but a used car is a used car.

Some people want Turbo H6 with 6MT, some people want Turbo H4 with 6MT, some MT drivers want VTD/VDC while others don't.

I guess why Subaru doesn't do it is people who might really want those options simply settle for a Limited GT anyway.

There is added cost of stocking all those combinations too, and not every item will sell so there would be potentially lots of leftovers.

I really wish tho that we would get some more of the upscale models like in the new Blitzen or Legacy GT STi in Australia. It pisses me off that the average North American car buyer likes their cars to be bland appliances.

[Double-V]

If you want BMW/Audi-style long lists of options and colour combos, be prepared to pay BMW/Audi-style prices too. Subaru does not sell that many cars in North America - it's quite amazing that they offer as much variety as they do!

[IwannaSportSedan]

...is people who might really want those options simply settle for a Limited GT anyway.


I think you hit the nail on the head here. Chicken or Egg? Did the american car buyer settle for mediocrity first, or did the automotive industry offer only mediocrity for american buyer to accept first...

I am not saying that the LGT is a bad thing, and settling for it is somehow a disappointment. it isn't. I am saying that Subaru isn't necessarily right for thinking that customers will automatically settle for any given thing, when what they truly would like and pay for isn't offered.

But the whole mentality of "settling" is what kills me. We're talking about some of the biggest expenses in most middle-class people's lives. Transportation. It isn't an asset, but it is a necessity to most, and much more expensive than basic needs, like food and water.

People need to be more particular about what they spend tens of thousands of dollars on, let alone borrow under interest for. Why do you think I research cars years in advance of when I'll be able to purchase one? And I hate settling on the broad-stroke items. But I am not at all saying people should be like me. Far from it. I am definitely not in the norm on this topic. But people just plop down huge chunks of their hard-earned currency for some products that seem to be from boring to questionable quality.


And I really get my ire up when manufacturers ony offer things "to be settled for." That is fine for people who don't care as much, or have no problem settling for things. But not everyone is so easily mollified, and for manufacturers and designers to assume such is arrogant, and is hurting their businesses. (US auto makers, particularly. Almost all auto manufacturers and other product vendors are affected somewhat.)

Whether it is inability to offer really competitive and attractive products, unwillingness to spend the capital to do so, or hindrance from being able to do so by non-free-market forces, it all is the same in dissappointing the customers. How many times do we see good cars offered in other countries, but not in the US? How many products are offered with better value features (like all the features japanese-built legacies are able to accomidate, that are impossible to incorporate on North American built Legacies? That is the kind of "settling" and corporate non-sense I am talking about.

Wanting value in a given price range is one thing, settling for cheaper because cheaper is available is something else. When cheaper is almost the only thing available, that is frustrating.

[Jedi Pimp]

If you want BMW/Audi-style long lists of options and colour combos, be prepared to pay BMW/Audi-style prices too. Subaru does not sell that many cars in North America - it's quite amazing that they offer as much variety as they do!

This is the straight up dope my man!!! Thanks 4 keepin' it REAL!!!

[IndyBlitzen]

Here is the post from the local Subaru dealer on our local forum. If it is wrong, it is bacause Subaru lied to him. He is a very stand-up guy...

Ted

********

It looks like I'll be 'Selling outright' my 2005 Legacy GT Limited Wagon 5MT, instead of Lease Turn-In.

[skibum]

********

It looks like I'll be 'Selling outright' my 2005 Legacy GT Limited Wagon 5MT, instead of Lease Turn-In.

How come?

[IndyBlitzen]

Because it will be a 'Rare Subaru'...It will probably be the last 5 speed GT (Legacy) wagon that Subaru offers.

This is a 'Good Thing' post.
Not a 'Bad thing' post.

[AWD_Rules3830]

im not sure how i fell about the impreza being on the legacy platform ... doesnt this mean more body roll?

[tintinet]

im not sure how i fell about the impreza being on the legacy platform ... doesnt this mean more body roll?

Depends upon suspension Subaru chooses: stiffer sways would keep body roll lower. I wish Subaru would offer a "Sport" tuned suspension vs. a "comfort" type, although, I guess, to some degree, the Spec B is just that, just incompletely implemented.

[The B4]

im not sure how i fell about the impreza being on the legacy platform ... doesnt this mean more body roll?

Impreza has always been on the legacy platform. and the legacy rolls way more than an impreza.

[heightsgtltd]

Impreza has always been on the legacy platform. and the legacy rolls way more than an impreza.

au contraire mon frere..

Forester is on impreza platform. Legacy is different than both.

[SLegacy99]

Well what ever the case, STRUT BARS FOR EVERYONE! YAY!

[The B4]

au contraire mon frere..

Forester is on impreza platform. Legacy is different than both.

NO! impreza is on a modified Legacy platform and the Forester is built from the Impreza platform. Legacy platform is the basis for all Subaru cars one way or another.

[heightsgtltd]

NO! impreza is on a modified Legacy platform and the Forester is built from the Impreza platform. Legacy platform is the basis for all Subaru cars one way or another.

really?

That might have been true of a 2000 or so legacy, but I dont think that the 2003 forward legacy platform is the basis for the current impreza/forester.

well even if true, the wheelbase on the impreza/forester is much shorter than the legacy as evidenced by the lack of legroom in the back seats on both models :lol:

[john_knoxville]

what exactly does a platform consist of on a frameless vehicle?

[The B4]

really?

That might have been true of a 2000 or so legacy, but I dont think that the 2003 forward legacy platform is the basis for the current impreza/forester.

well even if true, the wheelbase on the impreza/forester is much shorter than the legacy as evidenced by the lack of legroom in the back seats on both models :lol:

The current Legacy just rides on a newer version of its platform. The impreza will be moved to the newer version... but it all has the same roots.

Legacy
Legacy -> Outback
Legacy -> Outback -> Baja
Legacy -> Outback -> B9 Tribeca
Legacy -> Impreza
Legacy -> Impreza -> Forester

[SUBE555]

That truly makes no sense on how you describe that. I know people keep saying they're on the same platform, it's just altered A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H..... ways to accomodate the other vehicle model. I'm sorry, but there are too many differences, at least between the newer Legacy platforms that are now based on multilink rear suspensions (BE/BH & BL/BP) to share the resemblence in my opinion to the same platform.

Now I would be very comfortable saying they share the same design methodology for creating a safe chassis that is strong, but I still don't agree about the overall structure being the same. When a significant (greater than half) amount of the stampings are different between each platform, I would say they are a different platform and that is what I really suspect.

The Legacy and Outback are clearly on the same platform, I can even kinda see the stubby B9 similarities with the Legacy and Outback chassis, but the Impreza is just that much different.

I work for a large truck manufacturer, but just because we try to use commonality for our cabs and much of our hardware to reduce required supplies. It's only smart practice to continue using a piece of hardware like door hinges if they work good and there isn't a better solution that's cost effective to be had.

Back talking bout them 2007 Legacys. :)

[The B4]

That truly makes no sense on how you describe that. I know people keep saying they're on the same platform, it's just altered A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H..... ways to accomodate the other vehicle model. I'm sorry, but there are too many differences, at least between the newer Legacy platforms that are now based on multilink rear suspensions (BE/BH & BL/BP) to share the resemblence in my opinion to the same platform.

Now I would be very comfortable saying they share the same design methodology for creating a safe chassis that is strong, but I still don't agree about the overall structure being the same. When a significant (greater than half) amount of the stampings are different between each platform, I would say they are a different platform and that is what I really suspect.

The Legacy and Outback are clearly on the same platform, I can even kinda see the stubby B9 similarities with the Legacy and Outback chassis, but the Impreza is just that much different.

I work for a large truck manufacturer, but just because we try to use commonality for our cabs and much of our hardware to reduce required supplies. It's only smart practice to continue using a piece of hardware like door hinges if they work good and there isn't a better solution that's cost effective to be had.

Back talking bout them 2007 Legacys. :)

The current Impreza is based on an iteration of the previous legacy. The impreza has always been that way. the 2008 Impreza will just be bringing it up to date with the current Legacy platform.

[sebberry]

what exactly does a platform consist of on a frameless vehicle?

+1

[SUBE555]

The only differences between a frameless vehicle and framed window vehicle is that the part structure of the door and part in the pillars and roof is now able to be fully integrated into one piece making the structure much more rigid versus combining two lesser elements to do the job of one. There was an article on NASIOC from an emergency services conference where the B-pillars of newer Subaru's are constructed of 8 layers of high-strength steel that not even the jaws of life can get through. So it does help significantly in structural rigidityh for crashes, particularly side impacts.

B4, While I know the GC/GM/GF (93-01) Impreza was based off the BC/BF (90-94) Legacy and perhaps the GD/GG (02+) has had some coorelation to the BD/BG (95-99) Legacy (they both use McPherson type of suspension), but the GD/GG Impreza is MUCH more rigid, well there is 7 years between the first of each generation. Huge advances in the automotive industry is had in that amount of time.

Just some interesting numbers about generation changes:
(for those who don't know the model codes I'm referencing are the sedan models)
Legacy BC (Sport-92) (wheelbase: 101.6", length: 178.9", width: 66.5", weight:3220#)
Legacy BD (GTL-99) (wheelbase: 103.5", length: 181.5", width: 67.5", weight:3130#)
Legacy BE (GT-04) (wheelbase: 104.3", length: 184.4", width: 68.7", weight:3365#)
Legacy BL (GTL-06) (wheelbase: 105.1", length: 186.2", width: 68.1", weight:3365#)

Impreza GC (RS) (wheelbase:99.2", length:172.2", width:67.1", weight:2825#)
Impreza GD (RS-06) (wheelbase:99.4", length:173.8", width:68.5", weight:3016#)
Impreza GD (STI-06) (wheelbase: 99.4", length: 173.8", width: 68.5", weight: 3351#)

Despite similarities, in my personal opinion, they are not the same platform or even a modification in size, etc. As I said before, I think the same basic design practices apply across the line, which affords them excellent safety abilities, but if the majority of the stampings are different, it IS a different chassis. The similarities rest in design practice as our engineering dept does. The vehicles are close enough in size and function, it may be interpreted as a new version of this or that, but in reality, Subaru's are like Legos anyhow.

[harrydog]

The only differences between a frameless vehicle and framed window vehicle is that the part structure of the door and part in the pillars and roof is now able to be fully integrated into one piece making the structure much more rigid versus combining two lesser elements to do the job of one. There was an article on NASIOC from an emergency services conference where the B-pillars of newer Subaru's are constructed of 8 layers of high-strength steel that not even the jaws of life can get through. So it does help significantly in structural rigidityh for crashes, particularly side impacts.


I don't think john_knoxville was talking about the frameless windows. I think he meant unibody construction as opposed to a vehicle with a separate frame. I might be wrong though...

[SUBE555]

Well the difference between a framed and unibody chassis is much different. Especially once you get into the likeness of a truck. Each has their pluses and minuses. I think in a car, with the modern design techniques and materials, a frame really has lost its usefulness, additionally the use of powerful design software like CATIA V5 which I use for work makes the ability to design in context, do real world analysis, and keep tolerances tight much easier. Subaru specifically uses CATIA V5 (not sure what rev) for design and development and knowing what it can do, it really does help cut development time and aid in production of a better product.

Frames have been instrumental on trucks where things can essentially be packaged in kits, throw in this set of frame rails with this specific drilling, these X-members, add the suspension, box, cab, add your engine and driveline, and install the harnesses, not a huge amount more to it. Very modular. The cars with unibody are all of the body integrated in one shell which works together for rigidity and is basically that, a safety shell.

But like I stated before, I think we with modern development and production tools, methods, and materials, I just don't see the need for a real frame under a car anymore, that is unless you want someone to think it's a throw-back to the 60's retro thing and they want to feel like a frame instead of a unibody is going to be a benefit. I'd call that really mostly psychological.

[NickSimcheck]

Anyone know when SOA will release information to the public?

I'm going to be getting a LGT and might want to wait for '07 if it has Aux-in and folding rear seats.

[john_knoxville]

I don't think john_knoxville was talking about the frameless windows. I think he meant unibody construction as opposed to a vehicle with a separate frame. I might be wrong though...
i know the difference between a frame construction and a unibody construction (well enough, anyway)

what i was asking, and remains unknown to me, is what does a platform consist of with regards to a unibody vehicle -- same unibody design and shape? i gather it can't be the same unibody dimensions since some of you are suggesting the impreza and the tribeca are based upon the legacy "platform", yet have differing dimensions

[godwhomismike]

Damn you!!!! I thought there was some new information in here. :lol:

[kjnorman]

So any new information?

Damn it! Spring is here, it is nearly 2007! Waiting for next winter so I can play with the AWD system in snow again.....:lol::lol:

[godwhomismike]

hey jon in [ct] - any new info?

[IwannaSportSedan]

Bump for new info...

Any news from Jon (in CT) or Opie, or anybody else?

Seems to me, that this time last year I was hoping that the news was bogus that we had heard about the interior color choice being canned, and the manual trans legacy GT wagon, and base GT trim level were getting shuffled off. All that turned out to be true.

Wheres the 07 info? Any leaked info would be welcomed. (with the caveat, of course that no one would get into trouble over it... it isn't worth that...) we all know how damn slow the information comes from the official SOA channels. Dealers will have their first allotments before we hear anything from them, website, brochure, or otherwise.

New colors?, confirmation on the 07 Spec B's color, interior and equipment list? New trim levels? Slight revisions?

Any news or confirmation of old news beyond what we already have here?

I'd really love to know what the new colors will be. I want, and will be in a position to FINALLY buy a LGT this summer, and I want to know what colors to shop around to find, or get my local dealer to trade for, or outright factory order.

[heightsgtltd]

Bump for new info...

Any news from Jon (in CT) or Opie, or anybody else?

Seems to me, that this time last year I was hoping that the news was bogus that we had heard about the interior color choice being canned, and the manual trans legacy GT wagon, and base GT trim level were getting shuffled off. All that turned out to be true.

Wheres the 07 info? Any leaked info would be welcomed. (with the caveat, of course that no one would get into trouble over it... it isn't worth that...) we all know how damn slow the information comes from the official SOA channels. Dealers will have their first allotments before we hear anything from them, website, brochure, or otherwise.

New colors?, confirmation on the 07 Spec B's color, interior and equipment list? New trim levels? Slight revisions?

Any news or confirmation of old news beyond what we already have here?

I'd really love to know what the new colors will be. I want, and will be in a position to FINALLY buy a LGT this summer, and I want to know what colors to shop around to find, or get my local dealer to trade for, or outright factory order.

YOU ARE FINALLY BUYING ONE? WOOT WOOT!! :lol:

As long as you waited, you will hopefully get the lions share of options that werent available for either 05s or 06s

[The B4]

and I want to know what colors to shop around to find, or get my local dealer to trade for, or outright factory order.

you should do a special order as soon as you have the info since you have the time to do so.

[IwannaSportSedan]

I thought about a factory order...

But unless something changes, and subaru gets more configurability, it might be just as easy to find one in stock somewhere around...

There really are only three big variables. Exterior color, manual transmission, and NO rear spoiler. (I want the K2 riez sedan spoiler. Badly...)

Unless HIDS become a factory fitted option, NAV becomes more widely available (I'd opt to delete that option) or interior color choice comes back... there really isn't much more to it, and everything else, like the short shifter, sub woofer, compass/homelink mirror, and gauge pack is just a dealer installed, which doesn't matter to a factory order.

A dealer transfer might be faster than waiting two or three months for the car to be built to the same number of limited options, but if it is not readily available, you better believe I'll be ordering it to specification.

Maybe If I get in early enough with a deposit, the dealer will just request a car with my specs to be in their first allotment of 07 LGTs... for a gauranteed sale.

They know what I look like, and they know I have been looking at Legacys a good long time, even though I try not to bother them. Hopefully with some cash on the table, they'll make it happen.

But I need to know the specs first! Need the Info. Throw me a frikkin bone here! [/dr-evil]

[PGT]

and everything else........is just a dealer installed, which doesn't matter to a factory order.


au contraire!! The cost of those option on a factory order is significantly less than from the dealer (as in half the cost). At the factory, they have to put a shifter in anyways, so there's no extra labor to charge to install the STS. At the dealer, you will get charged labor for each option unless you left some money on the table in the overall deal of course (and who does that?? :lol: ).

[Opie]

No new info that I've seen yet...

...I just checked out Pipeline Report (shows what vehicle's are on there way) and there aren't any '07's listed yet.

[PGT]

Spec B will get blue suede seat inserts and 6sp.

[heightsgtltd]

Spec B will get blue suede seat inserts and 6sp.


Blue suede inserts in a silver car FTL

[IwannaSportSedan]

au contraire!! The cost of those option on a factory order is significantly less than from the dealer (as in half the cost). At the factory, they have to put a shifter in anyways, so there's no extra labor to charge to install the STS. At the dealer, you will get charged labor for each option unless you left some money on the table in the overall deal of course (and who does that?? :lol: ).

VERY INTERESTING...

I thought STS, spoiler or not, and all that other stuff was dealer-install (or not install) only, and that only the major trim changes were built to a quota at the factory. I didn't realize that the factory/port install was available on some of that accessory stuff, or that it was so much cheaper.

If that is the case, then maybe a factory order is looking a lot better.

Now I am also going to have to wait and see if there are any new accessory options for 07, as well, so that I can get them built in at the factory.

Blue interior in a silver car (darker grey than even titanium silver has been rumored) is passable, but not even as good as silver and red interior. SOA NEEDS to sell the Spec B in other colors. with the red or just black interiors. (black with red stitching and a black headliner would be nice, like the STI and Blitzen cars overseas...)
I wonder how many 06 Spec Bs remain unsold simply due to the fact that they aren't the color that some people want, either inside, outside, or both.

If subaru wants to sell a Legacy with a blue interior, it had better be trademark WR Blue on the outside, too. That is the best option for a blue interior. Grey, black, or white cars look better with a red interior, even though blue isn't a big no-no. It is a big no-no on a red car, though... and Spec Bs should be offered in some colors like red or blue.

I am completely serious. I would probably like the 6MT/VTD/Bilstein spec B stuff, and I AM the demographic that the Spec B should be targeting... But if it is stone grey/silver, with a cold blue interior, I won't buy it, and I'll get a regular LGT. Some other people might go so far as to buy a different car altogether, like say a mazdaspeed 6, in a very nice looking Velocity Red over black leather. If it were a nice vibrant blue or red, or even black, I would try to make it work, even with the Spec B's higher price. Maybe I am not like other people, but I am not going to spend extra money on a car painted a color I don't really like. That doesn't seem too "out of touch with mainstream" to me. I can't justify being it debt that long over something I am not really satisified with.

If that is common to more people than just me, then SOA has a problem on their hands... which seems to be the case with many 06 Spec Bs still unsold. Not a bad car, just entirely too limited of a configuration.

[PGT]

yeah....it's a bummer. It was a make it or break it thing for me. I wasn't going to spend $600 on an STi STS....a joke. I had a factory order in, but the dealer wanted to get me into a car for month end...the order wouldn't be in for another two weeks. My motivation was the GTP deal....WRX was being traded and $500 in Subaru Bucks.

If you are in a pinch, get the sales guys to give you a fair price on the accessories and either do the install yourself, or go back to Service and negotiate a price. The Sales weenies are working off of a fixed price sheet for labor, complete with markup and commission to them for the deal. Bypassing them may piss your Sales weenie off, but so be it.

[The B4]

VERY INTERESTING...

I thought STS, spoiler or not, and all that other stuff was dealer-install (or not install) only, and that only the major trim changes were built to a quota at the factory. I didn't realize that the factory/port install was available on some of that accessory stuff, or that it was so much cheaper.

If that is the case, then maybe a factory order is looking a lot better.

Now I am also going to have to wait and see if there are any new accessory options for 07, as well, so that I can get them built in at the factory.

PGT is right... there is a difference in accessory price.

[Bruno1453]

I just hope they bring back the 5-speed GT wagon!

[The B4]

I just hope they bring back the 5-speed GT wagon!
Doomed! Doomed! DOOMED!

[leftride]

I just hope they bring back the 5-speed GT wagon!

then i will wish i had waited till '07, but hey i guess i have ground clearance :)

[tintinet]

5 sp, nah 6 sp MT wagon!!!

[KA81]

Damn you!!!! I thought there was some new information in here. :lol:

:lol:

[Tommyh]

then i will wish i had waited till '07, but hey i guess i have ground clearance :)

and the serious version.

[osunick]

Sounds all pretty straight forward. Only thing I dont think is correct is a new nose for the Tribeca in 2008, this would SERIOUSLY upset ppl that had purchased a Tribeca in 2006/2007 and there is no need to change something that is so new. Then again anything is possible
Thanks for the info.
Ada///M.
Except this is standard operating procedure for Subaru lately. The bugeye impreza got a new nose in 2004 and another new nose in 2006. If anything response to the B9 has been worse than the response to the round light 2002/2003 Impreza. If they don't do anything about it, B9 sales will continue to be a disaster.

[osunick]

i know the difference between a frame construction and a unibody construction (well enough, anyway)

what i was asking, and remains unknown to me, is what does a platform consist of with regards to a unibody vehicle -- same unibody design and shape? i gather it can't be the same unibody dimensions since some of you are suggesting the impreza and the tribeca are based upon the legacy "platform", yet have differing dimensions
I used to work for Ford on Product Definition systems, so I might be able to shed some light here. Contrary to what you've heard on the forums, a 'platform' does not refer to an identical floorpan and identical chassis dimensions. There is no standardized definition of platform, but in general it refers to major components like brakes, HVAC, engines, transmissions, and suspension components being similar and interchangeable with very little if any modification. Cars that share the same platform can look extremely different. For instance, the Infiniti FX45 and Nissan 350Z share the FM platform even though the dimensions of the cars are quite different. They share many parts and this is how a company can offer quality and variety at a reasonable cost. It DOES NOT mean the resulting cars are very similar in character or performance.

As cars become more expensive to develop and car companies tailor their products for niche markets, platform engineering allows companies to share costs for components which can be pretty much the same for a sports car and an SUV (i.e. brakes) and spend money on design, styling, and differentiating features. A great example of this is the Mazda 3 and Volvo V50. Both are in very different markets and price points, and a layperson would not be able to tell from driving or seeing the cars that they shared a platform. However, the Mazda and Volvo have many unique features that differentiate them more from the market than their predecessors did, which had two separate platforms.

From what I understand, all subarus have shared the same platform for over a decade now, which is evidenced by the high degree of parts interchangability between different models and generations of subarus. However, the Legacy and Impreza platforms differ in one significant way- the Legacy rear suspension is multilink vs the strut Impreza suspension. My guess is that the 2008 Impreza will have a multilink suspension like the remainder of the line.

I also see a lot here about consumers wanting more choice in buying their cars, thinking that it is a simple matter for Subaru to increase the options list. This is definitely not easy, and not because of the cost of the options themselves- it's the logistics involved in managing a more complex product. Having only 68 different types of Subarus on the lot cuts a lot of costs out of manufacturing the cars.

Each additional option adds a lot of complexity to the system, and if you were to add only 4 additional options, the number of possible combinations would exceed 1,000. This is the fatal flaw of the American auto industry, offering all these combinations easily can add over a thousand dollars to each car, and very, very few custom orders come in, since they take 2 months to schedule and build.

A better solution is to do what Honda does- provide a few trim levels and no factory options. You can cut enough cost out of the system by simplifying to essentially offer many options for free. The challenge that Subaru's product planners have to face is how to simplify their lines while still offering what buyers want.

If I were in charge, (which I am not and never would be) I'd kill the Outback Sedan, and the Outback Sport (no need to have this when the Forester is around). Also the LL Bean 3.0R and VDC trim should go as well, with the VDC feature becoming standard (the cost of providing the feature on a vehicle already with 4 channel ABS is minimal and I don't understand why they are reserving it for only one model). Then leather and Nav can be stand alone options on all models.

[IwannaSportSedan]

Options may be more expensive that some (even me) realize, but you nailed it by pointing out that they have to balance that with giving people what they want.

It seems that legacy is victim to compromise toward what SOA wants to do, rather than what the customers would want (Legacy GT is a turbocharged car, and one would thing focused toward performance oriented people.)

It is odd that SOA created more trim lines for the Legacy in the non-GT realm (base, SE, and Limited) and the Outback (3.0R became a cut-price, sedan renamed LLBean like the wagon, in addition to XT and VDC...) but cut the Legacy GT to one trim line.

I would think drivetrain changes would be easier (since they install the same drivetrain into the chassis anyway...) and just organize it that way.
Engine 2.5i, 2.5GT/XT, and 3.0R.
Bodystyle: Sedan or Wagon Legacy, Wagon Outback.
Transmission: Manual or Automatic
Trim, base or Limited.
Interior color: black or taupe.
seventy two, or a few less (depending on if some combinations make no sense...) combinations cover all those bases.
Figuring Color, Nav, and HID would add a bit, admittedly... but this is the car business.

But I would think that these sort of things would be manageable by a company like Subaru. FHI japan offers much more choice, for one, as do most other companies. Costs are costs. you can try to cut them to a certain point, and beyond that the product suffers and doesn't sell as well.

It just seems like most other car companies can offer choices Subaru refuses to or can't. Subaru can't be THAT broke, and still compete in the market. Like we say: Gotta pay to play. That goes for automakers, too. And competition from other companies like Infinity/Nissan and Acura/Honda, and even Audi set the expectation of what people want for what price to pay... Subaru can hold that line, undercut the competition, or convince people to spend more money on a Subaru car for any given reason, but they don't seem to be doing overly well with offering more in one area, less in other areas, for a similar price, and not telling anyone about it.

[osunick]

Well, it's funny that you mention Honda because in general they offer even less choice that Subaru, but they do a great job of picking packages that people want, so I think that Subaru can do a great job of giving people what they want while managing complexity.

Toyota just fakes the concept of choice. Actually for any given sales region, only certain popular combinations are actually available. Try ordering a Lexus RX400h without Navigation in the bay area, for instance. You would actually find that none were available on dealer lots and the configuration is impossible to special order- there are no special orders in the toyota/lexus world. That's why lexus asks for your zip code before you can 'build your own' lexus online.

It's really not about dealers having less than 3 months of inventory. It's about dealers having inventory that they can sell off their own lots without having to do swaps or special orders. By restricting the amount of choices, dealers can be sure of having the cars in stock that people want. That's why it's so important to get the mix right, and a lot of it is intuition. You can't be purely data driven here- if 60 % of the cars that you build are white, then 60% of the cars you sell are white, but that's not indicative of demand, and the challenge lies in understanding what buyers really want. It's a difficult loop to close.

Scion has a great approach. All cars have 1 or 2 factory options, which are transmission and sometimes side airbags. The cars arrive in a port at southern california and are fitted with the accessories there. Since the facility is essentially one giant dealer inventory for all scion dealers, buyers can pick the exact colors they want and the accessories they want and get it in a week. A week is just about the maximum amount of time you can have for a special order before customer perceptions turn sour.

Let's not confuse one thing. Subaru offers more technology for less money than any other automaker. The VTD awd system is far more advanced than the Haldex or Quattro IV awd systems and it is offered in cars that start in the 25K range. Subaru is bad at messaging the true cost of the technology in their vehicles and offering options like HID and stability control that buyers understand. A flat 4 engine has many, many more parts than an inline four (4 camshafts, two cylinder heads, two head gaskets, 2 exhaust manifolds) and the rear biased full time awd system isn't been seen anywhere this side of a BMW. (ATTESA ET-S doesn't count because it doesn't employ a geared mechanical diff in addition to the hydraulic clutchpacks, therefore it's a part-time automatically engaging system)

[Tommyh]

Well, it's funny...

Who are you, and where the hell have you been!

[heightsgtltd]

Who are you, and where the hell have you been!

seriously...awesome 3rd post!

[red beast]

i sent soa a email

Dear Mr. numbnuts:

Thank you for visiting the Subaru Web site and for taking the time to contact us. The most valued opinion of any business is that of its customers. Your comments are valuable to us in that they provide us with a clear picture of our products as seen by our customers.

We appreciate your suggestions for a hybrid diesel vehicle. We have taken the liberty of forwarding your suggestions to our Product Planning Department for their possible consideration on future Subaru vehicles. Input from our owners has been helpful in initiating changes to our newer models. We hope to continually improve our products and we appreciate your comments.

Subaru has by no means abandoned our hybrid-electric development goals but has recently taken steps to incorporate diesel technology into vehicles for alternative fuel options.

If you have any further comments or should you need assistance in the future, please contact our Customer Dealer/Services Department by phone at 1-800-SUBARU3 (1-800-782-2783) or by email through our Web site ' Contact Us' section. Thank you for your comments.

Best wishes,

Samir Hasan
Subaru of America, Inc.
Customer/Dealer Services Department
-----------------------------------------------------------
YOUR ORIGINAL MAIL:

hybrid
diesel
hybrid
diesel

make up your minds will ya!

how about a diesel hybrid?

that is all....go back to work!

First name: numb
Last name: nuts

[heightsgtltd]

is that samir guy the only one over there? He seems to answer every email that is sent to soa...

[red beast]

Samir= Subaru Automated Machine Intelligent Responder

[heightsgtltd]

Samir= Subaru Automated Machine Iincomprehensible Responder

:lol:

Fixored

[KA81]

Samir= Subaru Automated Machine Incomprehensible Responder


:lol:

Fixored

Fixed :icon_bigg

[osunick]

Who are you, and where the hell have you been!
Thanks. I'm just a new guy.... long time subaru enthusiast, I've had an SVX, a WRX and an Outback in my garage at one time or another. Used to drive the Subaru to work at Ford until some wacko put a 'support usa' flyer on my windshield and sort of freaked me out. Now I drive an Evo but looking at a Legacy GT wagon for my fiancee... seems like the perfect complement to the Evo.

Needless to say I don't work for Ford or the auto industry anymore, it's an incredibly frustrating place to be if you're actually into the business of making and selling cars. I'm much happier as a consumer of vehicles than I ever was being involved in their production. A lot of boneheads everywhere, with a few brilliant, dedicated people keeping the whole thing afloat. But that's just my opinion.

[IwannaSportSedan]

A lot of boneheads everywhere, with a few brilliant, dedicated people keeping the whole thing afloat. But that's just my opinion.

I've always wondered that... just looking at the resultant products. I think that now more than ever, but you put it very well.

Welcome aboard, and please do keep filling us in on an insider's (albiet former) view of how the stuff works in the auto industry. it is very interesting, and some things an outsider or consumer would not know to consider.

[Tommyh]

Welcome aboard, and please do keep filling us in on an insider's (albiet former) view of how the stuff works in the auto industry. it is very interesting, and some things an outsider or consumer would not know to consider.

ditto