10,000 miles and I still hate the transmission

[RangerMan]

Okay, that is a bit of a lie. I don't hate the transmission, I just hate that I stalled backing up my driveway today (still don't like the way the clutch engages) and hate the fact that I ocassionally will miss the 1st-2nd shift if I am really going at it.

From a power perspective, I am still very happy with the car. I have considered increasing the power, but it is lower on my list than getting some new tires after the stockers wear out and improving the quality of the shifts.

I have searched around and wanted to see if these were the correct mods to make to the car. It seems that a short throw shifter, some bushings and an upgraded transmission mount would/should solve many of the shifter "feel" problems. For the clutch and the cars perpensity to stall when reversing I either need to learn to drive or replace it...however, I would be worried that going to a performance clutch would be trading one problem for another. Is this the right path to take?

Thanks!

[2Simpletons]

I'm not a big fan of the clutch in this car either. You can definitely make the stick feel better, but that's only half of the problem. :)
I still occasionally stall it and have a heck of a time getting a consistant launch. I hate to say this, but the wife's better at driving it than I am as it's her daily driver. She doesn't mind the clutch much anymore - HATED it when we first got it.

[NHLEG]

Not many people "like" the clutch. And, yes, the way it engages is what bothers me the most. I have been driving standards since 1985 and have never stalled a car like I do with this one (couple times a month). I can't really nail down exactly what it is, but I feel I need to give it more gas and slip it more than any other clutch I've driven. I don't think I've ever stalled the wife's MCS in the 2 years we've owned it.

[wcbjr]

Same here, stalled it 4 times in a week. Need to louden up the intake/exhaust to let me know when the damn thing engages.

[mwiener2]

I hated my clutch at first, but i've gotten used to it now...cept I've kinda over powered it and launchs aren't even worth trying now.

There's this one parking spot at school that I stall in every single time I back out of it. I dunno what it is, but I always stall there.

[MUD]

I haven't stalled in quite some time now, but I haven't even attempted to launch it either! The last time I tried to launch was between 2800-3000rpm and the clutch pedal didn't want to retract all the way.... so it was slipping on it's own!

I don't recall ever owned a "dual mass" clutch, so that could be it.... although I have yet to look up the solid definition of "dual mass" either! I'm lazy!

[mwiener2]

you got the CDV action, you let up on the clutch too fast and it locked up on you to protect the tranny.

We have a dual mass flywheel, not clutch. You really shouldn't be able to dectect a difference from a single mass to a dual mass other than a dual mass is usually noticebably heavier.

[dan_m]

I stall about once a month, my 04 rex is much better,
smoother engagement and more predictable, I can't
ever remember stalling my rex.

Of course I always stall with ppl in the car so I get that
"you can't drive stick" look ion their faces, I can't
stand that. The clutch on the LGT sucks lemons.

[gt_ltd]

shoulda got the 5eat.

[rfd425]

The LGT is about equal with my '98 A4 2.8Q in terms of how often I stall it. I've stalled both considerably more than the three MT cars I owned previously. Actually, in the case of the A4, I think it was not so much the clutch as it was the weight of the car combined with the lack of low-end torque of the Audi V6. I was hoping the LGT would be easier to launch because of better low-end torque, but the vague clutch makes it about equal. Although I stalled the A4 just as much I do the LGT, I generally got smoother launches with the A4 (I'm just talking regular, everyday launches from a stop).

However, the clutch on the Passat W8 6-speed that I test-drove was far trickier than either the A4 or the LGT. I stalled that car like four times before I got it off the dealer lot, and another two or three times before I returned it.

I've driven MT's for over 20 years, BTW.

[mmm def]

I hate the clutch on this car, I don't even bother launching it anymore. Also I wanted to teach my wife to drive stick, not on this car.

[legacysteve68]

vague clutch, couldnt have said it better

[rodan]

I think its a combination of the vague clutch engagement and the DBW trying to figure out what you want when you're modulating the gas trying to get the car going. Whatever the reason, it sucks...

On the original topic, a shifter, bushings and the STI tranny mount definitely improves the feel when shifting.

[dan_m]

The LGT is a somewhat heavy car and when you
load the engine too much like pulling away
from deep snow it'll stall on you quite easily.
You rev it higher to get it going put normally
you shouldn't have to. Stalled it a couple of times
backing up my driveway too, again that weight
thing.


The LGT is about equal with my '98 A4 2.8Q in terms of how often I stall it. I've stalled both considerably more than the three MT cars I owned previously. Actually, in the case of the A4, I think it was not so much the clutch as it was the weight of the car combined with the lack of low-end torque of the Audi V6. I was hoping the LGT would be easier to launch because of better low-end torque, but the vague clutch makes it about equal. Although I stalled the A4 just as much I do the LGT, I generally got smoother launches with the A4 (I'm just talking regular, everyday launches from a stop).

However, the clutch on the Passat W8 6-speed that I test-drove was far trickier than either the A4 or the LGT. I stalled that car like four times before I got it off the dealer lot, and another two or three times before I returned it.

I've driven MT's for over 20 years, BTW.

[SWP-LegacyGT]

have you guys EVER driven a WRX? It's like 10x worse on that car.

[dan_m]

I own a 04 wrx.

I prefer the wrx's clutch over the LGT's any day of the week.

LGT's clutch sucks major ass sorry.

[sutter2k]

On windy roads, I try to rev match in corners. I still don't get it quite right an sometimes upset the car. I am curious, at what point in the corner do people engage the clutch/select a gear?
before/after

[2Simpletons]

I owned an '04 WRX for over a year and have owned my '05 STi for a year now. The Impreza clutch is TONS better than the LGT clutch any day of the week. I'd say the Impreza clutch is prolly one of the most friendly clutches I've ever driven.

What's funny about the LGT clutch, is it changes from day to day. It'd be one thing to just get used to where it engages and learn to modulate correctly. But depending on who knows what, the thing seems to have a mind of it's own-possibly as it heats up? Very strange clutch.

I must say, I'd still prefer it to a slushbox though. No offense intended.

[MDork]

On windy roads, I try to rev match in corners. I still don't get it quite right an sometimes upset the car. I am curious, at what point in the corner do people engage the clutch/select a gear?
before/after

always (ALWAYS!) do your shifting before the corner. if you can heel/toe sufficiently you can accomplish your shift while braking. if not...do your braking then rev match pre-turn in. regardless....never (NEVER!) shift when mid-corner.

[TLS]

The LGT is the wifes car, her daily driver.

With the holidays, we find we are taking her car to relatives, etc. In these cases, she lets me drive.

In order to drive smoothly in this car, you REALLY have to rev it to pull away from a stop, and to shift smoothly, you really have to slip the clutch a LOT, and NOT lift fully on the throttle between shifts.

Most of these causes have been touched upon several times in past threads.

This is what I came up with while sifting through all the threads.


Dual Mass flywheel: 25% responsible. Instead of a simple standard flywheel, manufactureres are going to dual mass to dampen vibrations between engine and transmission. Simply, there is a spring dampner inside the flywheel, dampning vibrations and driveline noise. Problem is, the clutch disc is spring dampened as well. Now you have two distinct contributors to wind-up.

DBW: Drive by wire. 75% responsible. This car is the worst I've seen at throttle responsiveness. Just blip your throttle and.....NOTHING! It trys to think for you. "You didn't REALLY want to blip the throttle....did you?" If there were a way to make this CRISPER, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[wcbjr]

If there were a way to make this CRISPER, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Reflash?

[TLS]

Does the reflash address this? I haven't been current on these forums lately.

[MDork]

In order to drive smoothly in this car, you REALLY have to rev it to pull away from a stop, and to shift smoothly, you really have to slip the clutch a LOT, and NOT lift fully on the throttle between shifts.



Did you feel this way when the car was new? For our 5MT (wifes daily driver also), I would disagree with this statement 100%. i barely have to rev to pull from a stop...least of any car ive driven and i dont slip at all between shifts although i do rev-match.

weird.

[wcbjr]

Does the reflash address this? I haven't been current on these forums lately.

From Cobb Tuning's website:

"Revised Electronic Throttle mapping (BASE MAP CHANGE). We did this to improve the throttle response and remove some delays present. It took some tweaking to find a setting that gave the response we were after without making the car feel "jumpy". Note that we DID NOT simply trick you into feeling more response by opening the throttle more aggressively. Instead, we changed the delays in how the throttle actually reacted to your right foot in an effort to reduce some of the "drive by wire" feel."

[TLS]

Right now, I'm looking for a FACTORY reflash/fix for this. Not aftermarket, until the warranty expires.

Not that this car REQUIRES a lot of revs to pull out, but with the sloppy DBW, feathering it is pretty touch and go. I'm used to trucks that DON'T need ANY throttle to pull out.

[RangerMan]

Right now, I'm looking for a FACTORY reflash/fix for this. Not aftermarket, until the warranty expires.

Not that this car REQUIRES a lot of revs to pull out, but with the sloppy DBW, feathering it is pretty touch and go. I'm used to trucks that DON'T need ANY throttle to pull out.

I hear that, even my Ranger barely needs throttle to get into gear (and yes the clutch is still good). If it is really slick (snow when I lived in the frozen tundra of Rochester, NY) I would feather the clutch at idle to get the car moving and then start to give it the tiniest bit of gas. I can even shift the Ranger faster than the LGT, especially the 1-2 shift. That is just plain lame.

And yes, I stalled the car today with 2 buddies in it. One of whom I had recently made fun of for stalling his car while on a hill. Karma.

[rfd425]

And yes, I stalled the car today with 2 buddies in it. One of whom I had recently made fun of for stalling his car while on a hill. Karma.
Two buddies adds a lot of extra weight.

[bochinam]

I've stalled the car a once or twice. The LGT clutch is annoying and the transmission is a vague. If something can be done to increase the feel...that would be great but I'm not sweating it. Hopefully a reflash will make throttle blips and H/T a little more rewarding? Alas, I don't think there is anything you can do to make a LGT shift like a Miata, S2000 or Elise.

[Xenonk]

Okay, that is a bit of a lie. I don't hate the transmission, I just hate that I stalled backing up my driveway today (still don't like the way the clutch engages) and hate the fact that I ocassionally will miss the 1st-2nd shift if I am really going at it.
Thanks!

it's something you have to get use to.. the car isnt exactly tailor-made to anyone's style ;) If it was, we all be lying to ourselves.

good thing you weren't all too serious about 10,000 miles and still hating the car.. I am at 40,000 miles, thank goodness I dont hate it 4 times as much as you do..

10,000 miles should be enough for you to get use to the car's clutch..

I only stalled out like the first 1 to 2 months of owning the car (I thought something was wrong with the car until I changed my footwork).

[MUD]

Be thankful you don't drive a Saturn!

I drove my sister's Ion sedan and the clutch was entirely too light! A 2 year old could engage that clutch quickly with his/her hand!

I'm waiting patiently to see how much of a difference the AP will make by changing the response time w/ the DBW setup.

Sometimes I feel that on more spirited acceleration from a dead stop, the car refuses to acknowledge the fact that I have the tack at a 2krpm! HaHa!

The car's saying.... "Nope.... think again buddy!"

[SUBE555]

I've had my car for about 38,000 so far and I really don't have issues with it, rev matching, getting it into gear, or killing it. Sure sometimes I bog it a bit, but I haven't killed it in quite some time. Just takes a little getting used to, then again, that takes me like 5-10min in a car and I'm comfortable with most any clutch.

Driving a big truck with a clutch is more fun. Love the heavy truck clutches. :)

[starlabs]

What, another hate-the-clutch-cause-it-stalls-like-crazy thread? :lol:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23236

[RangerMan]

Xenonk, it would take more than just some little nitpicky things for me to actually hate the car. Just frustrated a little since it isn't "perfect" for me yet. I guess that is what the aftermarket is for! I am sold on changing the mounts and shifter since that is more of a feel thing and don't like how the car behaves when I really rail on it in 1st and try to get to 2nd.

The stalling will occur under circumstances where I want to get in gear but not really get moving yet - something of a habit I am in since I drive my truck about 50% of the time and I drive the LGT the other 50%. I just need to remember to slip it a little more than I would in the truck.

[rfd425]

I just need to remember to slip it a little more than I would in the truck.
I think that's the whole deal right there. I really hate slipping it any more than absolutely necessary, but it's either that or stall the car from time to time.

What, another hate-the-clutch-cause-it-stalls-like-crazy thread? :lol:
I'm sure it won't be the last, either.

[goodbread]

I have 8K on my GT and can't stand it. I have been driving manual transmissions since 1966 and this is the worst one I've had to live with for sure. I've driven worse but never in a new car with so-called "advanced design". My clutch, what little I can feel of it, seems to engage from one inch off the floor to one half inch from the top. I can't tell you folks how many times I've stalled the damn thing. I've missed more shifts than I ever did in years of drag racing. Keep in mind that I'm babying this thing because I read the reviews before i bought it and it still is very aggravating. These are design faults. There are too many people who have noticed these problems. Honda got it right years ago, what's Subaru's problem? I normally keep cars 5-10 years, I will be disposing of this car when the basic warranty runs out. I should have bought the Acura TSX for $2K more. The AWD and heated wipers just aren't worth the grief the drivetrain gives me.

[Spec B #127]

I test drove two other cars before I bought my Spec B, and out of the three I drove (the Spec B included), I like the clutch in it the best.

I test drove a Mazdaspeed 6 (hate that clutch) and an Evo MR (clutch was OK), and in comparison to the 2001 Celica GT-S I traded in, I thought the Spec B had the best clutch.

Smooth engagement, although since it is so quite compared to my old GT-S, I have killed it twice. Both times pulling into my driveway.

Overall I am very happen with how the clutch engagement works on my car.

[tintinet]

I'm new to the LGT, but have years of experience on the 02 WRX, and about 7 months worth on the 05 2.5 XT OB. So, far, I love the LGT clutch; however, I've only driven about 50 miles with it to date. I had one experience of the clutch kind of "getting stuck" mid-engagment on my wife's OB, during a high rev launch. Never stalled any of 'em (WRX, OB, LGT)

[sframs]

try getting a cobb ap. i installed mine last week and all the gears and shifts feel much tighter. prob the best 650 i spent.

i do get a burning smell when i launch though.

[flyboy333]

While that smell does get annoying, the clutch is just fine I think. My dad in 2 months of driving the car has only stalled it twice, once on the first day and once on the second. He has been driving since the 70s though so he probably has more experience than many with these things. All he does is rev it to about 3000 rpm (peak tourqe) let out clutch halfway, then apply gas and let it out the rest of the way. is that so complicated?

[vincedog3]

My Wrx a 2004, clutch was more progressive than the LGT. But like they say. You just have to get used to it. I don't stall it anymore. When I first got it, I felt like a beginner all over again. I driven manuals since 1979. So I don't have the most experience here, but the LGT made me rethink and re habit so to speak my shift clutch technique. As above, many have said, the stinky clutch smell is the only annoyance for me. I have to admit that the Wrx had a worse stinky smell than the LGT interestingly enough.

[blkwag]

After 28k I need a new one. I will leave the duelmass along and going with the ACT flywheel and a RS clutch. I finaly drove a car WRX with that set up and much better with a little heaver feel to the pedal but it was great!