Toyota to build 100k cars at Suby plant

[franklin]

Toyota is saying it has plans to build up to 100,000 cars at the Subaru plant in Indiana starting in 2007. Subaru now builds 123,000 cars/ year at the same plant. No word on what cars.

[melayout]

Hopefully quality won't suffer with the increased production rate or Toyota's standards will carry over and actually improve quality.

[RobY]

Maybe we will find free beer in camrys too...

[franklin]

Maybe we will find free beer in camrys too...
???? Did I miss something?:icon_frow

[*Jedimaster*]

???? Did I miss something?:icon_frow
Yes, yes you did. A Legacy owner found a beer can under his bumper cover- clearly put there during assembly :lol:

[forestir]

They could build Camry's there... No retooling required--damned thing looks like a Legacy sedan. Just new badges and drop in Toyota's FWD V6 powertrain. :)

[franklin]

They could build Camry's there... No retooling required--damned thing looks like a Legacy sedan. Just new badges and drop in Toyota's FWD V6 powertrain. :)
ROTFL I can see it now ".....Martha when the hell did Camarys get so damm fast" :icon_bigg:icon_bigg

[PGT]

moved to Subaru NEws

[twisted]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=&e=15&u=/ap/20051123/ap_on_bi_ge/japan_toyota_gm_11

[twisted]

eeek....as long as th camry and the legacy dont rub onto each other...i dont care !!!

[mach_six]

Here's hoping that since Camrys will be built there, the Legacy won't get the pig nose.

[DaktheRipper]

does that mean theres gonna be a subaru shortage in the us because of this? and quality is mos definitely gonna be a issue. i just don't want subaru to try and play catch up, not spending enough time on each car (legacy), don't care much for the wrx.

[The B4]

does that mean theres gonna be a subaru shortage in the us because of this? and quality is mos definitely gonna be a issue. i just don't want subaru to try and play catch up, not spending enough time on each car (legacy), don't care much for the wrx.

No worries..it will be a separate line. Half of the plant used to be owned by isuzu...isuzu pulled out of manufacturing in America and Subaru bought the whole plant. Subaru doesn't make anywhere near the amount of cars to fill the plants capacity. It's in Subaru's best interest to fill capacity at the plant...it will also ease the stress on subaru's pocketbook.

Subaru won't be building the cars...Toyota will. SIA just provides them a place to do so.

[tytek]

The Japanese call it Keiretsu (clusters or alliances). Since Toyota has manufacturing facilities in Indiana, Kentucky and West Virginia , they already share suppliers with Subaru, Honda, Nissan etc; therefore, it makes plenty of sense to 'rent' the old Isuzu part, split overhead, and utilize the idle capacity. It is a low risk expansion for them - especially now, just before the new Camry, Corolla, and a brand new 6spd auto along with a new V6 enter production. Let's hope Subaru learns kaizen and poka yoke better... :icon_evil

[forestir]

Maybe Subaru can borrow Toyota's climate control system, and maybe their Lexus paint. Conversely, Toyota could do with some turbo tech.

[gfxdave99]

Another version of the story


SIA-Toyota plan still in the works
By Max Showalter (mshowalter@journalandcourier.com)
mshowalter@journalandcourier.com
November 24, 2005
A recent change in partners by the company that owns the Subaru of Indiana Automotive Inc. plant in Lafayette could begin to pay some handsome dividends not too far down the road.
Reports from Japan indicate Toyota Motor Corp. is planning to manufacture up to 100,000 vehicles at SIA, with production beginning in 2007.
Tom Easterday, senior vice president at SIA, said ongoing studies and discussions involving Toyota and Subaru's parent company -- Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. -- have centered around the possibility of a production alliance.


"The studies are very complex and cover a wide range of topics. An agreement between FHI and Toyota regarding possible production of Toyota vehicles at SIA cannot be reached until the studies are concluded and thoroughly analyzed," Easterday said. "We do not have a set timeframe for when either of those events will occur.

"Clearly, both FHI and Toyota must determine that production of Toyota vehicles at SIA is in each of their best interests before any agreement can be reached."

The Asahi newspaper in Tokyo reported executives from Toyota and Fuji are expected to finalize a production plan when they meet on Dec. 5.

"I think that would be great," said Lafayette resident Earl Coleman, on the possibility that Toyota could bring additional production to SIA.
Coleman worked at the plant eight years before taking a voluntary layoff in July 2004. He has since found a new job and plans to pursue a master's degree in school counseling from Purdue University.

"Quality is very important at Subaru and that would be a real good match. And it would help the (local economy) out tremendously."
Toyota in, GM out

In October, FHI dissolved a 6-year-old strategic alliance with General Motors Corp. and announced that Toyota had agreed to purchase an 8.7 percent stake in FHI for $315 million.

GM had owned 20 percent of the company that operates the Lafayette plant, and the dissolution put a halt to plans to produce a Saab crossover sport-utility vehicle for General Motors, at SIA, beginning in 2007.

Mike Jackson, director of North American vehicle forecasts at CSM Worldwide, a Michigan-based auto industry research and consulting firm, said production plans at SIA would tie in well with Toyota's expectations of continuing its recent robust sales performance.

"It certainly would make sense for Toyota, in regards to leveraging and taking advantage of available (production) capacity and being able to expand without having to invest in a new facility," Jackson said. "Toyota has a very aggressive sales growth strategy. With that regard, their degree of flexibility certainly bodes well."

SIA expects to manufacture approximately 119,000 Subaru Legacy, Outback, B9 Tribeca and Baja models this year.

With the B9 Tribeca scheduled for export to Europe, Japan and Australia beginning next year, Subaru projects production in 2006 will reach 131,000 units.

The 2.8 million-square-foot plant -- originally owned 51 percent by Fuji Heavy Industries and 49 percent by Isuzu Motors Ltd. -- began production in 1989. Isuzu ended its partnership at the facility in 2004.
Approximately 2,350 people are employed at SIA, with 65 associates on layoff because of the Isuzu pullout.

Waiting on word
Dana Smith, president of the Lafayette-West Lafayette Chamber of Commerce, said production of Toyota vehicles could boost SIA employment levels to slightly more than 3,000 -- where it was when Isuzu models built at the plant were selling well.

"If the rumors are right ... you have a new manufacturer coming in. That's probably going to mean more warehouse space, maybe more sub-assembly taking place," Smith said. "In the long haul, there is no question in my mind that this rumor could bode very well for the community."

The report in the Asahi newspaper indicates five to six Toyota models are candidates for production at the Lafayette facility.

"The degree of flexibility within the plant is important. There is some lead time required," said Jackson. "For a product to go in there, you're looking at a product already built elsewhere. Toyota could have a 'sense of comfort' in executing a strategy like that."

But the company, which has 12 plants in Japan, also produces Lexus and Toyota vehicles and components at 51 manufacturing companies in 26 other countries.

"It has been widely reported that Toyota has also researched other options for expanding its production in North America. SIA has an outstanding work force that builds some of the best vehicles in the automotive market," Easterday said. "The Subarus built at SIA have an excellent reputation for quality, safety, performance and reliability. It would certainly be a further compliment to SIA associates and our community should Toyota vehicles be built here in the future."

[DaktheRipper]

Maybe Subaru can borrow Toyota's climate control system, and maybe their Lexus paint. Conversely, Toyota could do with some turbo tech.


as much as i would like to see the legacies get a new paint job, i think that toyo is keepin it super charged. i'm throwin a trd supercharger in my 4runner next month :icon_chee.

[EddieWan]

I have no problem with it. These alliances are getting so common that I don't even think about them much anymore.

[Enlight]

If anything, toyota is interested in subaru's awd. And these alliances that seem recent have actually existed for a long time in the japanese business world like tyek mentioned, "keiretsu".

[PGT]

If anything, toyota is interested in subaru's awd.

this is a good point. Nissan owned the shares prior to GM and they wanted access to the AWD. Turns out, Subaru referred them to Renault who eventually bought a portion of Nissan.

[SLegacy99]

Maybe Subaru can borrow Toyota's climate control system, and maybe their Lexus paint. Conversely, Toyota could do with some turbo tech.

But not Lexus leather. It sucks. My mom's RX 300 is the same age as my Legacy but with a few less miles and quite a few more cracks in her seats.

[red beast]

camry awd?
hybred rav4 ala subaru?

[Jedi Pimp]

Are the SIA workers UAW associates? Isn't Toyota non-union?

[AreEyeSeeKay]

camry awd?
hybred rav4 ala subaru?

The January Car & Driver has a review of the new RAV4. Its pretty good competition for the forester XT.

269 HP V6 thats rated at 26 MPG Highway 0-60 in 6.3
5 speed auto (ok no manual available)
3 rd row seat
DVD entertainment, Sirius available.
all for 28k loaded.

[AreEyeSeeKay]

Are the SIA workers UAW associates? Isn't Toyota non-union?

Not sure about Toyota, but SIA is non-union.

[johnny_m]

The January Car & Driver has a review of the new RAV4. Its pretty good competition for the forester XT.

269 HP V6 thats rated at 26 MPG Highway 0-60 in 6.3
5 speed auto (ok no manual available)
3 rd row seat
DVD entertainment, Sirius available.
all for 28k loaded.
I dunno about you all but I'm sure as Hell would not want to have to sit in the third row seat of a RAV4. It is pretty ridiculous that people are putting third row seats in anything just so you can say it has three rows. My wife's MDX has a so-called third row. I would not want to sit in it and the MDX is a LOT bigger than a RAV4.

[heightsgtltd]

The January Car & Driver has a review of the new RAV4. Its pretty good competition for the forester XT.

269 HP V6 thats rated at 26 MPG Highway 0-60 in 6.3
5 speed auto (ok no manual available)
3 rd row seat
DVD entertainment, Sirius available.
all for 28k loaded.

More like 33,000 loaded...but still an interesting choice..

[rfd425]

Are the SIA workers UAW associates? Isn't Toyota non-union?
I don't think it matters. They are two separate companies who will just happen to be operating in the same building. They can function completely autonomously.

I think it's a win-win situation for Toyota to use the excess capacity at the Lafayette plant, and any technology sharing between the companies will benefit them both. Toyota doesn't currently offer any models that interest me (although we were considering the Highlander for a while), but there's no question that they are a very fine carmaker.

[mach_six]

I dunno about you all but I'm sure as Hell would not want to have to sit in the third row seat of a RAV4. It is pretty ridiculous that people are putting third row seats in anything just so you can say it has three rows. My wife's MDX has a so-called third row. I would not want to sit in it and the MDX is a LOT bigger than a RAV4.

The Tribeca has a 3rd row. ..

I remember as a kid, I sat in the back of a Ford Taurus wagon that had seats on the side in the rear cargo area.

[REM87O]

From what I heard it is purely a capacity related move, not supplier at all. As others have pointed out this makes a lot of sense for Toyota.

[tytek]

none of the japanese auto manufacturers in the us are unionized. unions are a relict of the past that are unfortunately still present among us auto makers.

[rallispec]

I remember as a kid, I sat in the back of a Ford Taurus wagon that had seats on the side in the rear cargo area.

sitting in those seats was like having a death wish.... My parents had a mercury sable (same as taurus)-- i remember getting a little freaked out if they ever slammed on the brakes to fast and I could see a car coming up on the rear...



Do wagons still get those seats?

[Beanboy]

Ayup. The E55 AMG wagon has one. There is a picture of two kids with helmets on with big grins on their faces at the dragstrip. Wonder if you can keep your back against the seat when the car you are in can run 0-60 in 4.1 seconds...

-B

[gfxdave99]

Update on the story

At least with the restyled camry's they probably wont get mixed up on what cars to send to what dealerships :icon_tong

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=1709654

LAFAYETTE, Ind. Mar 10, 2006 (AP)— Toyota and Indiana officials are expected to announce Monday that a Subaru plant in Lafayette will begin producing Toyota's Camry mid-sized sedan.


The announcement at Subaru of Indiana Automotive's plant follows months of negotiations to bring production of the Camry to the factory.
Both Japanese automakers have already agreed the factory in Tippecanoe County will produce Toyota vehicles.


The plant now makes about 100,000 Subaru vehicles a year, including Outback station wagons, Legacy sedans and Baja and B9 Tribeca sport-utility vehicles.
Details about how many Camrys will be produced and when production will start are expected to be revealed Monday.


In October, General Motors Corp. said it was ending its alliance with Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd., the Japanese maker of Subaru cars, selling its 20 percent stake. Toyota Motor Corp. bought an 8.7 percent stake in Fuji for about $315 million and became the top shareholder in Fuji.


The Camry was the top-selling car in the United States in 2005 for the fourth year in a row and eight of the last nine years.


Since introducing the Camry in 1982, Toyota has sold more than 6.5 million of the cars in the United States. Toyota is also planning a hybrid version of the Camry that will be powered by both electricity and gasoline.

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

[Zsbaug24]

The most likely technology to be shared between Subaru and Toyota is actually their hybrid systems. Subaru has spent time developing a newer longer lasting lighter battery with NEC (I think). This would be a huge asset to Toyota and if Subaru can adapt parts of the Toyota hybrid system to their TPH system it could save them a lot of development costs and expedite its getting to production. I would find it highly unlikely that Toyota is going to get access to Subaru's AWD system or that Subaru will get access to Toyota's build materials. This is a partnership built on trading of information not a trading of management. I would expect that the plant is basically going to be 2 separate plants with the Subaru and Toyota halves having nothing more than being in the same building in common.

[fzanetti]

The Japanese call it Keiretsu (clusters or alliances). Since Toyota has manufacturing facilities in Indiana, Kentucky and West Virginia , they already share suppliers with Subaru, Honda, Nissan etc; therefore, it makes plenty of sense to 'rent' the old Isuzu part, split overhead, and utilize the idle capacity. It is a low risk expansion for them - especially now, just before the new Camry, Corolla, and a brand new 6spd auto along with a new V6 enter production. Let's hope Subaru learns kaizen and poka yoke better... :icon_evil

Exactly!!!!!!!!

Let's hope Subaru learns and start offering more goodies, or try to actually compete with Toyota on some segments....

It's all to same money, from their suppliers, etc etc etc.... Which is always a good move, we ended up paying less at the end (if everything works ok!!!)

Flavio Zanetti
Boston, MA

[peterjmc]

More jobs for Americans! This is great news for their local economy.

[Enlight]

Japanese auto companies take enough care of their workers to not need unions. The UAW tried to unionize them but the employees voted no.

[konrad]

maybe Toyota will help improve paint

[mccorry]

maybe Toyota will help improve paint

I believe that Dupont currently supplies the BC/CC for the Subaru lines at SIA.
I don't know for sure... but PPG is one of the main Toyota paint suppliers.....

[AWD_Rules3830]

hmmmm ... not sure how i feel about this


So toyota is renting the plant from subaru basically?

[AWD_Rules3830]

Japanese auto companies take enough care of their workers to not need unions. The UAW tried to unionize them but the employees voted no.
Unions is what is killing the american auto industry ... its why companies like Toyota, Subaru, Honda, and Nissan (granite with the help of renualt) are taking over inch by inch the american auto industry. these company take care of their workers very well, inexchange they expect very very hard work out of you ... nice system ... Unlike they UAW who just sit on their overpayed a***es and demand more benefits that are killing their companies financially.

there may be a difference her between the japanese car workers and american ones ... i think the japanese companies take alot more pride in their work.

i would never buy american, subaru is by far, i think, the best car on the market, my family drives fords, i use to have an explorer ... i took moms expedition to wal mart the other day, i was like ... i want my subie back now ...

basically hte UAW is killing american auto industry ... oh well ...

[VTGT]

This is pretty interesting. My parents have two Toyotas. Yeah there boring but so reliable. I feel like corollas are taking over the world though haha

[AWD_Rules3830]

personally i would never drive a toyota, i have never really been impressed with there cars ... sure they have good gas mileage, nice interiors, but they are ... except for the pruis, bland glarified econoboxes ... civics with leather ... their engines have never impressed me, i mean sure longevity, im not going to keep a car much past 125,000 miles anyway, i dont care if it will last to 200,000. Further more, they just dont have that powerful 'WoW' factor during acceleration and cornering ... they jsut seem mushly, the engine especially, i feel like im squezzing playdough everytime I drive one ... ewww:icon_surp

[AWD_Rules3830]

besides when was the last time you saw a toyota corolla (or toyota anything, supra included) meet and didnt laugh you a** off lol

[gfxdave99]

Few more details flowing in

Toyota, Fuji to build about 100,000 Camrys a year in Indiana
Toyota Motor Corp. and partner Fuji Heavy Industries, the maker of Subaru cars, will produce about 100,000 of the popular Toyota Camrys a year at Fuji’s U.S. plant in Indiana starting in the spring of 2007, the Japanese automakers said today.
The plans, outlined by the presidents of Toyota Motor Corp. and Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. in Tokyo, are expected to create about 1,000 jobs at the Subaru of Indiana Automotive Inc. plant, which now employs 2,300 people.
The plant will produce about 100,000 Camrys a year, raising the plant’s annual production to 240,000 vehicles, the companies said.
The Camry sedan is the best-selling car in the United States and is now being produced in the United States only at Toyota’s plant in Georgetown, Ky. The Subaru plant in Indiana currently produces Subaru Outback station wagons and Legacy sedans.
The automakers also said Fuji will work together to produce Fuji hybrid vehicles using Toyota’s hybrid technology. Fuji Heavy President Kyoji Takenaka and Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe gave no additional details on that effort at a news conference.
In October, U.S. automaker General Motors Corp. said it was ending its alliance with Fuji and selling its entire 20 percent stake the company. At that time, Toyota bought an 8.7 percent stake in Fuji for $315 million and became the top shareholder in Fuji.

[gfxdave99]

even more information from bloomberg.com

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000080&sid=aJI7GE35NvzY&refer=asia#


Fuji Heavy Advances on Plans to Make Toyota Vehicles (Update2) March 13 (Bloomberg) -- Shares of Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. rose as much as 6.3 percent ahead of the carmaker's plans to use its Indiana plant to make vehicles for Toyota Motor Corp., which holds an 8.7 percent stake in the maker of Subaru cars.
Fuji Heavy shares, which have gained 28 percent in the last 12 months, rose as much as 40 yen to 672 and changed hands at 670 yen as of 10:57 a.m. in Tokyo. Toyota, the world's largest automaker by market value, bought its stake in Tokyo-based Fuji Heavy in October from General Motors Corp.


The presidents of Fuji Heavy and Toyota will hold a press conference today at 9 p.m. local time in Tokyo. Toyota plans to make vehicles at Fuji Heavy's U.S. factory, raising North American capacity by 6 percent, said officials familiar with the plan in November.


``The gain in Fuji Heavy shares today shows that the alliance is a positive one and it proves the two automakers have finally come up with a plan,'' said Koji Endo, an analyst at Credit Suisse in Tokyo.


Toyota may build between 100,000 and 120,000 Camry sedans or Highlander sports-utility vehicles at Fuji Heavy's Lafayette, Indiana factory starting in 2007, said the Toyota and Fuji Heavy officials, declining to be named in November.


The production will provide Toyota capacity to build 1.93 million vehicles a year in North America by 2008 without having to build a new plant. The automaker based in central Japan's Toyota City, is expecting a fourth year of record profit by March 2006, challenging GM as the world's largest car seller.


Shares of Toyota, which gets about 60 percent of operating income from the U.S., rose as much as 1.9 percent to 6,410 yen in Tokyo.
U.S. Market


Toyota's U.S. market share has gained for 10 straight years, rising to a record 13.3 percent in 2005, led by sales of models including Camrys, Tundra pickup trucks, Lexus luxury cars and Prius gas-electric hybrids.


The company sold 2.26 million vehicles in 2005, 10.1 percent more than last year, according to Autodata Corp. Fuji Heavy, which had 1.2 percent market share in the U.S. in 2005, had 4.6 percent sales growth to 196,002 units last year.


Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe is boosting production abroad to shield Toyota's earnings from a fluctuating yen and deliver vehicles faster to customers. The carmaker, which makes vehicles and components in more than 60 factories in 27 countries and regions, aims to increase global market share to 15 percent in the next decade from 12 percent.


GM sold its Fuji Heavy stake to Toyota and on the stock market for a total of $737 million. At Detroit-based GM, Chairman Rick Wagoner is cutting North American production capacity by 30 percent over six years to 4.2 million units in 2008, shutting 12 production sites and slashing 30,000 jobs.


Technology Exchange


Toyota and Fuji Heavy said they plan to exchange engineers and advanced technology including gas-electric hybrid systems.


``We are focusing on development and production now'' and have no plans for joint procurement or sales at the moment, Watanabe said on Dec. 26.


Toyota will gain access to Fuji Heavy's technology for batteries for gasoline-electric vehicles and all-wheel-drive system from the partnership, Credit Suisse's Endo said.
Toyota plans to cooperate on ``various advanced technologies,'' especially those for engines, said Toyota Executive Vice President Mitsuo Kinoshita on Oct. 5. Fuji Heavy President Kyoji Takenaka has said his company's batteries for hybrid engines may be offered to Toyota.


Hybrid Production
Toyota aims to boost production of hybrids to 1 million by the early part of next decade from 134,700 last year. Its Prius sedan is equipped with nickel hydride batteries made by Panasonic EV Energy Co. The battery powers the engine in city driving. The gasoline engine takes over when the car is cruising.


Fuji Heavy has developed a manganese lithium-ion hybrid battery which lasts at least 50 percent longer than current batteries, according to Ashvin Chotai, an analyst at Global Insight Inc. in London. Fuji's battery can also run the car while it's cruising.
Indiana Capacity


Fuji Heavy uses less than half of its production capacity at the Indiana plant, set up in 1987. The carmaker built 119,011 Subaru vehicles last year at the factory, out of a total annual capacity of 262,000 cars and trucks including B9 Tribeca sport- utility vehicles and Legacy station wagons on two lines. It plans to make 125,628 units this year.


Toyota's Camry became the best-selling car in the U.S. for the fourth year in a row and eighth time in the past nine years. Sales of the Camry rose 1.4 percent to 431,703 units in 2005, as record gasoline prices made fuel-efficient cars more attractive.


U.S. average retail gasoline prices surged to a record $3.06 a gallon in September and were at $2.36 on March 12, 16 percent higher than a year earlier, according to AAA's fuel- price Web site.


North America Production


Toyota builds Camrys in Kentucky and at the Tsutsumi factory near its head office in central Japan. The sedan competes with Honda Motor Co.'s Accord and Nissan Motor Co.'s Altima models.


The Camry's base price starts from $18,445 in the U.S. with a 2.4-liter four-cylinder engine and five-speed manual transmission.


Toyota, which may surpass GM as the world's biggest automaker as early as next year, increased its annual capital expenditure plan by 12 percent to a record 1.4 trillion yen ($11.8 billion) to expand production.


Toyota has five North American plants, with plans to open a sixth in San Antonio next year and a seventh in Woodstock, Ontario, in 2008.


Fuji Heavy


Fuji Heavy may buy 5,000 to 10,000 subcompact vehicles a year from Toyota for sale in Europe starting in around 2007, the Nihon Keizai newspaper said in October.


Fuji Heavy in August said the company plans to license technology to produce its batteries and capacitors for gasoline- electric hybrid cars and fuel-cell vehicles to other companies. It will also start selling its Turbo Parallel Hybrid gasoline- electric car in the year ending March 2008.


The automaker, which gets about 40 percent of its sales from North America, in February, said its annual net income may fall 34 percent to 12 billion yen on sales of 1.48 trillion yen.

[2hondas]

"Toyota will gain access to Fuji Heavy's technology for batteries for gasoline-electric vehicles and all-wheel-drive system from the partnership, Credit Suisse's Endo said."

[gfxdave99]

"Toyota will gain access to Fuji Heavy's technology for batteries for gasoline-electric vehicles and all-wheel-drive system from the partnership, Credit Suisse's Endo said."


yep should be interesting.

[ilh]

Hey, they already build Camrys at that plant! ;)

[AWD_Rules3830]

as someone who works for subaru ... i wouldnt be to happy if toyota was just going to come it and take it, but i dont run the company, i just dont want subies turned into toyota's

[The B4]

as someone who works for subaru ... i wouldnt be to happy if toyota was just going to come it and take it, but i dont run the company, i just dont want subies turned into toyota's

amen... keep the pillaging to a minimum.

[AWD_Rules3830]

i mean honestly (i dont actually work for subaru btw, this is just a roll play if you will) i was annoyed enough when saab went begging to GM to allow them to use the impreza for the '9-2 saabaru', as an auto company, its important that everyone takes prides in what they are building, atleast that is what i think. You dont just go out and buy a platform from another company and call it yours.

If toyota cant build a decient awd system, then they shouldnt try to be in the business of makeing such a device for their cars. the same goes for subaru, if you cant build a good gas-electic hybrid system, dont build it. subaru in my opinion just needs to stick to what has made the company work. depending all-weather AWD systems, dont try to do this hybrid thing. please !!

[The B4]

i mean honestly (i dont actually work for subaru btw, this is just a roll play if you will) i was annoyed enough when saab went begging to GM to allow them to use the impreza for the '9-2 saabaru', as an auto company, its important that everyone takes prides in what they are building, atleast that is what i think. You dont just go out and buy a platform from another company and call it yours.

If toyota cant build a decient awd system, then they shouldnt try to be in the business of makeing such a device for their cars. the same goes for subaru, if you cant build a good gas-electic hybrid system, dont build it. subaru in my opinion just needs to stick to what has made the company work. depending all-weather AWD systems, dont try to do this hybrid thing. please !!

I think the hybrid thing will work out. Subaru appeals to very liberally minded people. I think the main thing that affected Subaru's Hybrid aspirations were GM's persistence in keeping its affiliates from doing it because "Hydrogen is the next best thing. We don't believe in Hybrids." and also all the expensive patents Toyota had in place the Subaru was trying to work around.

[DukeTrout]

The hard part when a deal is between a small, innovative player and a big player, is; how much does the smaller player give up without losing everything. I see it in my industry, and this has disturbing parallels. As the smaller player, the key is to give something that is already mature for your business (AWD), and keep control of your "next big thing." I just hope Subaru has something besides its LiMn batteries to carry forward as its next big thing...

[SLegacy99]

it does. The first turbo hybrid. A hybrid that gets the same gas mileage as the Camry hybrid except Subaru has 70 more hp.

[2hondas]

it does. The first turbo hybrid. A hybrid that gets the same gas mileage as the Camry hybrid except Subaru has 70 more hp.

Bah, all those mileage ratings are way off anyways.

[DukeTrout]

it does. The first turbo hybrid. A hybrid that gets the same gas mileage as the Camry hybrid except Subaru has 70 more hp.

Yeah, but I think the batteries are really the key technology to their hybrid movement. We use LiMnO2 batteries in my industry, and they rock for longevity, charge retention, and current output. We use tiny ones for medical applications, but it sounds like FHI is really cutting edge on large-scale apps. Delivering charge to the battery via an internal combustion engine is actually Toyota's forte - their hybrid synergy is great technology for the application - their problem is that they are using circa-1980s NiMH batteries for storage. I think that is one of the reasons that they don't get the advertised milage out of their hybrids - and the really bad news for Prius owners is that with NiMH batteries, its just going to get worse over the life of the car.

[SLegacy99]

The mileage ratings may be skewed, but I dont think I could complain with 48 mpg.

My understanding is that Toyota batteries are only meant to last five years or so where the Subaru battery is designed for more than 10 years of life. I mean, isnt that why Toyota wanted to buy that 12% of Subaru?