Data Logging Results

[PhilT]

As many of us are now taking data readings from our cars with Tari DL or Ecu Explorer, this thread is the place to post them up for discussion and comparison.

It would be very helpful if we detailed all the mods with the results, so to compare apples to apples.

Here's a couple to get started, readings I took stock, compared to my latest set up with; Stg 2 AP, PDE UP & catless DP, Perrin pulley and K&N panel filter.

[trabbic]

GREAT IDEA!!

Here is my Stock V. Stage 1 (Cobb) with graphs included...

Stage 1 1.15 93 Oct. (BP Gas). Stock graphs are actually without Intake Silencer. All pulls done in 3rd gear.

[trabbic]

Here are more logs

They compare stock airbox, no resonator (intake silencer), and the zip tie mod, discussed here:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22563

All runs were made at Cobb Stage One with Tari DL1, back to back within 2 or so hours...

[PhilT]

This is one I took before any ECU mods, but just with a short ram intake. You can see how the exhaust temps are much higher than normal and the ECU is pulling timing by the negative KC.

As you can imagine, I promptly removed it !

[CHRISPY]

Take a look at the ziptie data compare it to the resonator removed data.

The Ziptie mod shows a peak of 243.13 with with only 12.0#'s boost.

The resonator mod shows a peak 242 grams/sec but at 12.7#s boost.

I think with more learning and 12.7s# boost on the ziptie mod you'll see even more grams/sec showing up on the MAF flow.
This shows that even with less boost from the turbo you are seeing identical MAF flow. If the boost from the turbo was up to 12.7 you'd see even more airflow from the ziptie mod.

This weekend I'll try and meet up with Phil and we'll do some logging in my car.
Cheers,
Chris

[abakja1]

Ok,..seems there are still conflicting comments on whether to take the resonator out or no (even with the resonator/air intake thread at Modification thread),...I dont think I will ziptie my KN as there really is too much dirt and warm/hot air to think about unless you do make some sort of cold air box or divider,..Not really worth the time/effort for petty hp numbers,..Id take out the resonator just for the cool sound, but only if throttle response/hp/tq are not negative or detrimental to performance and driveability,...

My opinion is that, I originally took out my resonator and have a KN filter and noticed the louder intake noise and BOV sounds,..However, throttle response with a quick accelerator pedal jab or "punching it" was not too responsive though,..Dont know if it was the ECU (pre-AP flash) slow response due to throttle-by-wire,..

So,..I put back the resonator and the throttle response seemed better,..but this is butt dyno testing,...I think Pantagonian GT commented the same observations as I did,...For me, I dont mind trying it out as it really only take about 5-10 minutes to take resonator out,..

So I maybe wrong and,...If CHRISPY's datalogging is showing better numbers,..IS taking the resonator off a good thing (I think I may screw in an aluminum sheet to cover resonator hole too)???

[CHRISPY]

the MAF flow is telling you how the airflow is into the motor. The stock setup is worse than both the ziptie and resonator.

My wife didnt like how loud the ziptie mod was so I put in the cover but removed the resonator this morning

If the MAF flow is higher (average and peak) you WILL make more power once the computer learns in the increased airflow and adjusts STRIMS/LTRIMS/pulsewidth etc. MAF flow is directly proportional to HP potential. :)

Cheers,
Chris

[Chief_Wiggum]

Can you guys please include the octane rating for the fuel you're using? Curious to see the timing info on different gas. Thanks!

[PhilT]

I tried the "poor man's" cold induction this evening, not with zip ties but with duct tape, eh !

The results are not conclusive, in fact there is hardly any difference at all. MAF is the same with or without, boost is the same, EGT's the same, the only major difference is that the intake temp is much higher without the snorkal at low speeds, as we expected, but cools off to the same levels once the car gets moving.

Anyway, here are the results, see what you think.

[CHRISPY]

Phil,

Can you graph MAF flow and boost in excel for me and post the graph comparing both runs? Did you duct tape over the filter or around the edge of it? ;)

[PhilT]

Chris, IM me your email address and I'll send you the file in excel, might take me a while to do the graphs.

[CHRISPY]

PM sent :)

[mwiener2]

Do all of you have adobe acrobat or is acrobat smart enough to take an excel sheet and make it look like that just by changing the extension?

[PhilT]

I have acrobat yes, it converts any file to a *.pdf

[mwiener2]

i meant if i take an .xls file and change it to .pdf, will acrobat reader handle that?

[PhilT]

Nope, it has to be converted.

Because we can't attach excel files to a post, what you can do though, is change the extension to .pdf, then whoever wants to view it has to save it first, then change the extension back to xls. and open it in excel.

Like this attachment; it's really an excel file but I changed the extension to .pdf so I can attach it. If you want to view it, save it, then change the extension back to .xls

[CFar]

Phil T, what kind of intake did you have and what were the conditions leading to the higher EGTs? How high did the EGTs get?

[CFar]

Ok I see that you had a DIY intake on before. Is that the intake that you had on while you ran those numbers? Did you ever have any CEL's with it (if you had it on long enough) and was the piping surrounding the MAF the same as stock or bigger?

If anyone with a K&N typhoon can log some numbers that would be great, or better yet, I invite anybody with data logging capability to meet me somewhere in NOVA so we can test an otherwise stock car and see how the k&n does. I need someone to do it soon as I dont know how long Ill be at this current state of tune.

Chris

[mwiener2]

here's two logs from right after my protune.

Save them then change the file extension from .pdf to .csv

[CFar]

I suppose its safe to say that the lowest reading the AFR guage will provide is ~11.1/1. You have it tuned to drop straight to its lowest possible value on full throttle. Safe but man you must use some gas.

Chris

[mwiener2]

well what do you expect? 30mpg at WOT making 300 ftlbs?

[CFar]

Maybe if you rode down hill everywhere you went. Thats a good end result in the end though. What were the power numbers?

[mwiener2]

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22212&highlight=protuned

[PhilT]

Ok I see that you had a DIY intake on before. Is that the intake that you had on while you ran those numbers? Did you ever have any CEL's with it (if you had it on long enough) and was the piping surrounding the MAF the same as stock or bigger?

If anyone with a K&N typhoon can log some numbers that would be great, or better yet, I invite anybody with data logging capability to meet me somewhere in NOVA so we can test an otherwise stock car and see how the k&n does. I need someone to do it soon as I dont know how long Ill be at this current state of tune.
Chris

I never hasd any CEL's, I think I read somewhere that the light comes on at 1,800 degrees.
The pipe is exactly the same diameter as stock, with the 'H' air straighteners in it too. For some reason the MAF was sensing lower g/s of air and reducing the fuel. I think the airflow was there, just not being metered, and with the reduced fuel I got the lean mixture and high EGT's.
I would love to see some logs from someone with a Perrin or a K&N, to see if they are any different than mine. No volunteers yet though.

[CFar]

Im trying to piece together a cord and laptop to get it done with no luck so far. The choice in cords is confusing to say the least but hopefully I can get it ironed out tomorrow.

[TSi+WRX]

II would love to see some logs from someone with a Perrin....to see if they are any different than mine. No volunteers yet though.

I'll volunteer if you'll pay to get me out of jail - and the ticket, too. :icon_tong

After my last ticket (it's been nearly 5 years since my previous), which I'm *_NOT_* proud of :redface: , well, I have to take it easy for a while....

I'm afraid that as soon as I get the cable and upload the software to my laptop, I'm gonna go apeshit :lol: .

I'll log if I ever get her up on a dyno again, though! That I promise!

[CFar]

With great thanks to Rallispec (who set up my laptop and let me borrow his Cobb cord) I got the data with a stock tune running the Typhoon.

Its copied as an excel file and I can't write a pdf (to my knowledge). Consider me not computer savvy and help me post it somehow please :)

Chris

[PhilT]

With great thanks to Rallispec (who set up my laptop and let me borrow his Cobb cord) I got the data with a stock tune running the Typhoon.

Its copied as an excel file and I can't write a pdf (to my knowledge). Consider me not computer savvy and help me post it somehow please :)

Chris

I posted some basic instructions earlier in this thread, try it and see.

[CFar]

Cosider me, ....very.... computer illiterate. I dont know how to change the extension from excel to pdf. I have the free version of Adobe if that explains anything.

[PhilT]

Email the files to me and I will convert and post them for you.

PM'd you with my email address.

[PhilT]

Here's the logs, and they do look very good, everything well within spec. It would be interesting though Chris, to see a log before you fitted the Typhoon, and also your MAF readings in g/s, that was we can see if more air is actually being drawn into the engine.

[CFar]

Those look great, youll have to tell me how you did those!

Ill try and get out tomorrow to do some runs with the MAF. I feel like Im hijacking this thread, so PM if you want you want some other parameters in the log.

Thanks Phil,
Chris

[PhilT]

Just format them as you want them to appear in excel, then publish them with Adobe Professional. Or just email them to me and I can do it quickly now I have a macro set up for it.

[rallispec]

Chris,
what gear where you when you did those logs? 2nd?

anyhow, they actually don't look to bad, and you're actually seeing some positive KC under load. It would have been really nice if you had some pre-intake logs. To late for that now though.


Has your new downpipe shown up yet?

[CFar]

3rd gear. Ill try and get out today and do some more with some more intake info (maf)

DP should be in tomorrow, hopefully

[sutter2k]

I logged my current setup(running pdx's converted sti stage 1.8) tonight after boost leak fixed.

I appologize for including columns that are not really needed. I am still new at this. Anything else I should add to the logging?

logs are here --> http://sutternow.net/pics/sti/logs/

Looks like I peaked at 282.93 (http://sutternow.net/pics/sti/logs/TARI%20DL1%20%202005-11-28%20-283.4.csv) g/s.
Tonight was much warmer than my previous logging 63 degrees and humid vs 33 degress (hit 246 g/s with a boost leak). 93 octance Hess gas was used.
(pulled from this thread (http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23091))

[edmundu]

I thought I'd post up another STI swap, with PDX map. This is a modified one, not their standard OTS map! Lets just say that this car can pull some air....Check out the MAf (v) 4.7v is a lot!

On a run just prior to this one, I just rolled into it in 5th, about 80mph, and the car pulled really hard to 145+, I let off, but it had plenty left! This setup without a doubt pulls quite a bit more than my previous Stg1.5T. Comparatively, the 1.5T would only pull 240-242 g/s, 4.50-4.52v.

I can't wait to put in my new turbo....the shove into the seat is addicting!!! I thought I had gotten over it, but apparently not...

[sutter2k]

I can't wait to put in my new turbo....the shove into the seat is addicting!!! I thought I had gotten over it, but apparently not...

When's this? Still thinking about the alcohol/water injection?

Matt

[f1anatic]

Why can"t you guys export it to an excel file.

[PhilT]

Because you can't attach an excel file to your post, only gif jpg pdf png

[RippinRoo]

Has anyone discussed calculating estimated HP using the data that was logged? Couldn't find anything via the search...

[VXCL]

This is my first data log and i'm concerned. Almost all neg knock correction #s. I always use sunoco 94 and i think my ecu is used to it. i had to get some texaco 93 the other day because i was running late. Could that be the prob? What do you guys think? I'm running cobb stage I (93) 1.15.
I also thought it was odd my egt never changed.

yellow is 2nd gear
green 3rd
blue 4th

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/vxcl/legacy/data_logs/data_log_1.4.06.jpg

[PhilT]

Have you done any other mods apart from the AP Stg 1 ?

Try resetting your ECU and taking more readings. A little bit of knock correction isn't bad, like you have there. Everything else seems OK, can't understand why your EGT doesn't change at all though, have you done the UP and put the resistor fix in ? Definately check the leads to the probe.

On your next readings, log your injector duty cycle instead of the fuel pump, thats more indicative of what's going on.

I don't see anything to be really concerned about though.

Nice presentation btw

[edmundu]

VXCL,

1.Definitely must be a resistor in place of egt.

When logging, definitely log inj duty, as well as maf v, and /or grams/s, also enable the IAM, this will really tell you how happy the ecm is currently, it's sort of a confidence rating. 1.0 is excellent, and anything lower, should have your maps adjusted to get it back to 1.0. Assuming, you are using the appropriate fuel, and the engine is in good mechanical/electrical health!

Taking a look at the ign timing tells the big picture, which is to say, your timing #'s are pretty good! High teen's, rising to mid-upper 20's, exactly what you want to see. Just because the KC values aren't all positive, just means that the underlying base map has more timing built-in, and therefore doesn't need additional dynamic advance added. Now whether or not this is due to the 93 vs 94 oct. gas, is a guess, because you do not have a log history. But now that you have, you can note the difference, if any as you refill with the 94 oct. gas.

I wouldn't be worried or concerned, overall, this is a pretty good looking log, from the data being shown.

[edmundu]

Has anyone discussed calculating estimated HP using the data that was logged? Couldn't find anything via the search...

It has been commonly alluded to that MAF flow follows hp. So grams/s is a good yardstick to look at. But this is an interpolated number, based off of the reported maf voltage. But if you have the mafv & grams/s, then you can compare across tunes(using same MAF diameters). Other important factors include barometric psi and IAT. Armed with these you can pretty easily & accurately deduce the power the particular tune is making. Or at the very least is capable of making based on the airflow through the engine.

[RippinRoo]

It has been commonly alluded to that MAF flow follows hp. So grams/s is a good yardstick to look at. But this is an interpolated number, based off of the reported maf voltage. But if you have the mafv & grams/s, then you can compare across tunes(using same MAF diameters). Other important factors include barometric psi and IAT. Armed with these you can pretty easily & accurately deduce the power the particular tune is making. Or at the very least is capable of making based on the airflow through the engine.

I was thinking more along the lines of using the logged speed along with the logged time to determine the rate of acceleration, and using the car's weight to determine the power required to accelerate the mass, and then mapping that on a chart against rpm in order to see a HP curve... seems like that could be built into a spreadsheet so all you need to do is plug in the logging data. Clearly not as accurate as a chassis dyno, but I'm assuming a lot cheaper and with the same stretch of road it should be pretty consistent. Should be able to build in correction factors for temp and pressure as well...

[RippinRoo]

I guess one of the reasons I'm asking about the HP calcs is because it seems that saying that "I gained .3v peak on my MAF with that engine mod" doesn't really mean all that much (to me, anway) :confused:

[edmundu]

I guess one of the reasons I'm asking about the HP calcs is because it seems that saying that "I gained .3v peak on my MAF with that engine mod" doesn't really mean all that much (to me, anway) :confused:


Gotcha! Great idea! I don't have the time to do that. I have looked at my datalogs in the past and just calculated the time it took to accelerate from say 3.5k-7krpm, in say 3rd or 4th gear, this way it was consistent, without gear changing errors. It proved to be useful in seeing the differences between certain maps, and between certain rpm points within the maps though.

[SeeeeeYa]

Referencing my previous post about .pdf vs .csv files this is a test. I am attaching one of my logfiles, which of course is a .csv file, with the extension merely changed to .pdf in order to post it on here since .csv files are not allowed. If this works, super. Here goes.

[SeeeeeYa]

Fantastic! Testing the file by saving it back onto my computer after retrieving it from my post and changing the extension back to .csv and loading it into either DDDemo or EcuExplorer works. Now, why am I unable to retrieve other files on here similarly, and yet on Tari or elsewhere I can.....

On another note, I welcome some astute analytical comments about my log as all is not perfect here with my logging. After downloading a "test session" I find that not all my logging attempts produced logfiles. I'm using EcuExplorer version 3.0.6 to log and DDD for graphing. Rather exciting stuff.

[SeeeeeYa]

I meant to add that my car a) has 23k miles b) uses Chevron 93 octane c) has an AP Stg2 93oct base map, an Agency Power lightweight pulley with stock diameter (beautiful btw). The exhaust has the dp cat removed but otherwise stock. The vehicle with me in it and just under a half tank of gas weighed 3560 lbs. The logfile posted was a brake torqued run starting at the bottom of a rather steep onramp to the local interstate. Braketorqueing always chirps the tires and snaps one's head back :) I love it! JDM RSB in-the-mail supposedly, ordered it a month ago (Christmas present from the Mrs).

[VXCL]

VXCL,

1.Definitely must be a resistor in place of egt.

When logging, definitely log inj duty, as well as maf v, and /or grams/s, also enable the IAM, this will really tell you how happy the ecm is currently, it's sort of a confidence rating. 1.0 is excellent, and anything lower, should have your maps adjusted to get it back to 1.0. Assuming, you are using the appropriate fuel, and the engine is in good mechanical/electrical health!

Taking a look at the ign timing tells the big picture, which is to say, your timing #'s are pretty good! High teen's, rising to mid-upper 20's, exactly what you want to see. Just because the KC values aren't all positive, just means that the underlying base map has more timing built-in, and therefore doesn't need additional dynamic advance added. Now whether or not this is due to the 93 vs 94 oct. gas, is a guess, because you do not have a log history. But now that you have, you can note the difference, if any as you refill with the 94 oct. gas.

I wouldn't be worried or concerned, overall, this is a pretty good looking log, from the data being shown.

Phil and edmundu thanks for the response!
yes i did forget to mention i have a pltek up with resistor and a cobb catted dp. my air box resonator is removed as well. I will change my options next time i log. Also do i need the up resitor fix with an ap flash? or will i still get a cell? im supposed to meet up with mmm def and data log his car as well. i will def do another log using sunoco 94. its amazing how much gets logged in such a minimal time. I mean i was flying through the rpms :) what i'm wondering is if you can use the time column to figure out how long it takes to accel. 0 to 60 comes to mind. i dont quite understand how the timing works in the log. thanks again guys! i feel much better now :)

[edmundu]

VXCL,

You can use the absolute time to measure acceleration, I have! But I usually will do it with rpms', within a gear, or across a couple of gears. when comparing runs from different days, be aware of the weather conditions, as this plays a large part! 0-60, will be difficult, but instead, log it, and from DD, pick the 1st speed/rpm interval as a starting point, and then pick you finish point, and last subtract the absolute timestamp values. this will give you a very good idea on how your car is performing, bith day-to-day, and against others.

[edmundu]

Fantastic! Testing the file by saving it back onto my computer after retrieving it from my post and changing the extension back to .csv and loading it into either DDDemo or EcuExplorer works. Now, why am I unable to retrieve other files on here similarly, and yet on Tari or elsewhere I can.....

On another note, I welcome some astute analytical comments about my log as all is not perfect here with my logging. After downloading a "test session" I find that not all my logging attempts produced logfiles. I'm using EcuExplorer version 3.0.6 to log and DDD for graphing. Rather exciting stuff.

Log looks real good! Timing looks quite good, mid-upper teens riding up into the mid 20's,and the 220 MAF grams/s flow looks to be about 225whp, on a conservative dyno like a mustang.For me to get a better idea, just log the MAF volts too, this will show if the tuner has rescaled the MAF table. Boost is what is expected for stg2. You have a healthy tune!

Side Note: This is the first auto log I've seen, and when I first saw it, I was like where are the big swings in timing/throttle input etc... normally seen with shifting a manual...then I realized from the 100% constant throttle that this was a 5EAT!

[RippinRoo]

Gotcha! Great idea! I don't have the time to do that. I have looked at my datalogs in the past and just calculated the time it took to accelerate from say 3.5k-7krpm, in say 3rd or 4th gear, this way it was consistent, without gear changing errors. It proved to be useful in seeing the differences between certain maps, and between certain rpm points within the maps though.

I may try a how-to write-up once I get my logging hw and sw figured out. Tho' I'm not seeing the interest I thought I would, so it may not be worth the effort... :(

[edmundu]

If you do it, you might just jump start/motivate other's into logging, once they see some cool tools for it? Also, as the car matures, and more guys start modding them, there will be an increasingly larger audience to interest....

[SeeeeeYa]

Log looks real good! Timing looks quite good, mid-upper teens riding up into the mid 20's,and the 220 MAF grams/s flow looks to be about 225whp, on a conservative dyno like a mustang.For me to get a better idea, just log the MAF volts too, this will show if the tuner has rescaled the MAF table. Boost is what is expected for stg2. You have a healthy tune!

Side Note: This is the first auto log I've seen, and when I first saw it, I was like where are the big swings in timing/throttle input etc... normally seen with shifting a manual...then I realized from the 100% constant throttle that this was a 5EAT!

Thanks edmundu, your response is exactly what I was hoping for. I will include more parameters in future logging. I rely on the expertise here, such as yours, as guidance in selecting the combination of options for the results I want. So far, so good. :)

[mudfoot]

i just started loggin some runs the other nite.. its pretty cool... its nice that i have a spot that i can safely do some pulls without any worries from the po po

[mccorry]

I did my first ones tonight, as well.... this is all so new to me....

[scans007]

Just wanted to subscribe since I'm a log'n mainiac now.....

A note/question with the ecuExplorer (which rocks) MRP will only read up to around 18psi(i've read every thread, and the manual on ecuExplorer ;)).....since I'm run'n over that and want to monitor past that. I have to use MAP, my prob is I don't know the formual to convert MAP to MRP.....

I think I'm gonna write a macro that will convert that (once I have the formula) and format the cells, bold possible bad stuff (aka -KC and such) who knows well see, still learning what all the values mean......:D

[PhilT]

MRP is simply MAP - Atmospheric Pressure, can't quite remember what it's called on EcuExplorer though.

[scans007]

Yeah it has Manifold Absolute pressure(MAP), and Mainfold Realitive pressure(MRP).

MRP = Boost.
MAP = Boost + Atmospheric Pressure

Since the MRP only reads until 18psi, I guess I need know what Atmosperic Pressure is so I can subtract it.....:D Any ideas


<-- BONEHEAD

I can just log "Atmospheric Pressure" (that's what it's called in ecuExplorer ;)) for one run and have it....

[PhilT]

That's the easy way.....

The hard way is to have the wife or SO stand outside with a barometer while you are doing your runs :icon_tong

[mccorry]

OK.... I did some datalogging two days ago with my stock airbox, Catless up pipe, and Cobb Stage 1 91oct. map. It is shown as "Stock intake pull.pdf".

Tonight... after installing my K&N Typhoon intake, I made 4 more pulls. These are labeled as "K&N intake pull 1.pdf", "K&N intake pull2.pdf", etc.

The only changes were the intake, the gas (I had to fill up with 92 octane Speedway gas yesterday), and the ambient weather conditions (it is warmer and drier (not raining) today).

It looks like the new Mass Airflow housing is causing the ECU to read the incoming air ~20 g/s lower than it read with the stock airbox housing. The stock air box read ~ 235 g/s at 6K RPM while the K&N is reading ~ 218 g/s at 6K RPM. This would make it a little more lean, but I don't think it is that bad.

The first 3 pulls tonight showed negative (-) Knock correction on the timing at high RPM's.... but the 4th pull didn't show any - KC (Knock Corr).

What do you guys think..... is this ok to leave on for now? I was fairly happy with the results..... especially since each pull got better than the previous.

**** I highlighted the pull in yellow and any peaks or questionable values in red.
**** All pulls were done in 3rd gear

[edmundu]

Mccorry,

I wouldn't push the car too much until you get it tuned for the intake. It is obvious that the intake is flowing more air than the MAf is showing, which also makes the ECU use a lower load cell, which runs more timing, less fuel. Not good! I also noticed that when you're WOT, it is only displaying 99.6%, not a big deal, but just thought I'd point it out.

Try another log, but this time enable maf v, this is the actual air flow value as seen by the MAF, and from it, the other #'s like load & grams/s are interpolated. Doing this will confirm the additional airflow, by having a higher voltage. Even small .02-.04 increments mean alot , because the maf scale is not linear. The difference between 4.4 & 4.6 is alot! Like 30-35whp....

[mccorry]

Really?!?! I thought they looked pretty good.
Thanks for the input, edmundu.

[PhilT]

I agree, it doesn't look too bad, but I wouldn't be happy with it either. It would be interesting to see your exhaust temps compared to stock, that will give you a good idea of what is happening also.

[edmundu]

Well before the intake you were looking like a typical Cobb map, mid teen's riding up to high 20's for ign timing. Afterwards you barely hit mid 20's. The ecu is pulling back DA, and looks like it may have changed to a less aggressive base ign map. Also, you should not be losing close to 10% MAF flow using the same map. If it had been 2 different maps, we could assume the MAF table had been rescaled, but that's not the case here. The K&N intake is reducing the amount of air the MAF is seeing, even though the same or more is passing through, which is reflected in what you're in the logs.

[mccorry]

I agree, it doesn't look too bad, but I wouldn't be happy with it either. It would be interesting to see your exhaust temps compared to stock, that will give you a good idea of what is happening also.


Getting EGT's are going to be a problem since I have a catless up pipe and the resistor mod...... :(

[mccorry]

Well before the intake you were looking like a typical Cobb map, mid teen's riding up to high 20's for ign timing. Afterwards you barely hit mid 20's. The ecu is pulling back DA, and looks like it may have changed to a less aggressive base ign map. Also, you should not be losing close to 10% MAF flow using the same map. If it had been 2 different maps, we could assume the MAF table had been rescaled, but that's not the case here. The K&N intake is reducing the amount of air the MAF is seeing, even though the same or more is passing through, which is reflected in what you're in the logs.

1. What is DA?
2. Excellent point regarding the timing. I was thinking it was due to the cheaper gasoline or the higher ambient temperatures.....
3. The MAF readings, however, are undeniable. Even I saw that... I just didn't think it was that big of a problem.

So, sounds like I should but my factory air box back on and ditch the K&N, eh? I don't have any local tuners here....
Would Cobb Stg 2 + Cobb dowpipe help or hurt this setup? How about an ECU reset?

[edmundu]

1. Dynamic Advance, or KC knock correction. Cobb usually runs low numbers, but under WOT to see - KC values is always bad!

ECU reset won't do anything. It is already taking corrective measures, as much as the table values will allow.

Going to stg2 will only pull more air through, which makes having a good tune more important. If you cannot get a tuner to correct it, I would probably take it off. I'm running close to 300whp, and I'm on a completely stock intake, right down to the resonator & OEM filter. And I'm pretty sure I'm not giving up much if any hp...

[mccorry]

OK... thanks for the help, edmundu.....

[RippinRoo]

Because we can't attach excel files to a post, what you can do though, is change the extension to .pdf, then whoever wants to view it has to save it first, then change the extension back to xls. and open it in excel.


FYI - Get the OpenOffice suite - it includes a spreadsheet program called Calc which will import .csv and .xls files and will output to .pdf. The suite is Open Source and is free. That's right, FREE :icon_bigg. www.openoffice.org

[mccorry]

Even better... go to CutePDF... http://www.cutepdf.com/products/CutePDF/writer.asp

Download the program and the converter (both freeware) and then you can print from any program to a PDF file.
Just select CutePDF Writer as your printer and you're set!

Oh... and you can thank me later. ;)

[lookslikeanevo]

damn looks like my knn is coming off too, cus i know im not gonna be getting tuned anytime soon

[Mblock66]

Wow I data logged and I am stage II with a protune from TDC with an AEM CAI and I am only pulling 233 g/g MAF......How the hell are you pulling 237 with the stock airbox on stage I??????

[mccorry]

Wow I data logged and I am stage II with a protune from TDC with an AEM CAI and I am only pulling 233 g/g MAF......How the hell are you pulling 237 with the stock airbox on stage I??????

Not sure... but I have 3 pulls logged with stock air box/MAF.... all in the 235-239 range @ 6K.
If you want to experiment.... put your stock box/MAF back on and run some logs.

I bet your tune shows higher g/s MAF with the stock box, as well. Now the question is... which one is REALLY correct?

[Chappy]

mccorry, did you talk with Jon at TDCtuning about his custom maps?
http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25184
Go to stage II and then have him send you a tune..

[edmundu]

Not sure... but I have 3 pulls logged with stock air box/MAF.... all in the 235-239 range @ 6K.
If you want to experiment.... put your stock box/MAF back on and run some logs.

I bet your tune shows higher g/s MAF with the stock box, as well. Now the question is... which one is REALLY correct?


I'm tellin ya, log the MAf v, this is a hard number! The others are calculated based off of what the voltage is across the MAF. Mblock66's 233 g/s, could be actually flowing more air than your 239 g/s, if the maf scaling has been adjusted. Also, Mblock66 is also running a intake, AEM. IF it required a re tune after install, you can bet that the internal MAF diameter is not identical to stock! Which is another contributor to the Grams/sec discrepencies....

[PhilT]

I had a similar problem with my SR intake, the MAF was showing less, I got -KC and high EGTs.

There's no way that there is "actually" less air flowing, it must be the turbulence that prevents the sensor from measuring it.

Hopefully the Cobb intake will be designed in such a way to eliminate this problem.

[MDTURBO]

MAP = 14.5 + boost
MRP = boost


mccorry, ensure there are no leaks or gaps anywhere around the MAF sensor. Your log looks like the usual symptoms that the MAF is reading less air, but no doubt you've got the same or more air flowing by the sensor... Thus it reads less air, and doesn't add as much fuel, you run lean up top, and thus why it's pulling timing... Need to see an EGT or Wideband log to be sure. Can really only assume by just looking at the KR vs RPM log.

[MDTURBO]

...oh and MAFs suck for turbo applications... that is all. :lol:

[scans007]

...oh and MAFs suck for turbo applications... that is all. :lol:

+ a bazillion :icon_bigg

[Mblock66]

well I am showing positive 7 knock correction at 6k with the AEM intake and about 233g/s MAF. Timing is in the 20-22 range by then also

[scans007]

well I am showing positive 7 knock correction at 6k with the AEM intake and about 233g/s MAF. Timing is in the 20-22 range by then also

What happens when you are off the gas and outta WOT......... - 7 KC like me.....??? (I saw the same +KC's with my map)

[Mblock66]

no, i never gte negative knock in any of my logs

[scans007]

no, i never gte negative knock in any of my logs

Sweet its just me......:icon_bigg

[mccorry]

mccorry, did you talk with Jon at TDCtuning about his custom maps?
http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25184
Go to stage II and then have him send you a tune..


No I haven't... but thanks for the recommendation.

I think I am going to pull the K&N off and put the stock airbox back on for now. Next week, I'll put on the DP and go to stage 2 and do some datalogging.

After that... I just might have to give Jon a call. I'd like to have his Stg II map with and without the K&N.

[PhilT]

I took a couple of logs this evening prior to installing the Perrin TMIC tomorrow, everything still seems good since I last took some readings with the exception of the KC. I am now seeing slight -ve KC above 4,000 rpm, going up to -3 just before the rev limiter kicks in at 7,000. I don't think this is too much to be concerned about is it ?

Once I get the TMIC fitted, I'll post the logs, it will be interesting to see what difference it makes before a Pro tune.

[mccorry]

I think -KC is BAD under load. What other mods do you have?

[edmundu]

Yeah, the -KC up top is not good. But you are still running good advance, so the ECM didn't completely pull timing. What is the IAM? Was this run the first? Or did you do a few successive runs, and logged one of the latter ones?

Also, do you use winter blend fuel in Canada? If so, that would help explain alot about the timing being pulled...

[PhilT]

I think -KC is BAD under load. What other mods do you have?

PDE UP & Catless DP, Perrin Pulley, that's it.

The logs I took after installing the above were all fine, now it's gone -ve, the only thing I can think it might be is the gas, but it's Esso 91, the same as I always use.

I've never been able to get the IAM, ECU Explorer doesn't pick it up, unless it's me.

I believe winter gas in Canada does have more Ethanol in it, but I couldn't say for sure.

[edmundu]

If you had previously logged in the early fall/late summer, then you are likely seeing the effects of oxygenated gas. Especially since you had good #'s in the past, and you haven't changed the tune or fuel.

BTW, the TMIC will give you a little more wind up top, and about 1psi more boost! It's noticeable, and you can tell immediately!

[PhilT]

Got the logs done after fitting the Perrin TMIC. With no change of tune, still on Stage 2 V1.15, it has made a noticeable difference. Not to my butt dyno, that didn't register much, but the readings speak for themselves.

Boost increased by 0.58 psi
EGT reduced by 63 degrees
-ve KC disappeared and timing at WOT was increased by 3 degrees
MAF increased by 3.21 g/s

The readings were taken on the same stretch of on-ramp, ambient temps are same as yesterday, so it all looks good to me, I'm very happy with it.

I'm sure the gains from a Protune will be awesome, and I can't wait to get the Greddy catback fitted and give Jon a call.

[TDC Tuning]

Got the logs done after fitting the Perrin TMIC. With no change of tune, still on Stage 2 V1.15, it has made a noticeable difference. Not to my butt dyno, that didn't register much, but the readings speak for themselves.

Boost increased by 0.58 psi
EGT reduced by 63 degrees
-ve KC disappeared and timing at WOT was increased by 3 degrees
MAF increased by 3.21 g/s

The readings were taken on the same stretch of on-ramp, ambient temps are same as yesterday, so it all looks good to me, I'm very happy with it.

I'm sure the gains from a Protune will be awesome, and I can't wait to get the Greddy catback fitted and give Jon a call.
w00t!!!!

[SeeeeeYa]

Log looks real good! Timing looks quite good, mid-upper teens riding up into the mid 20's,and the 220 MAF grams/s flow looks to be about 225whp, on a conservative dyno like a mustang.For me to get a better idea, just log the MAF volts too, this will show if the tuner has rescaled the MAF table. Boost is what is expected for stg2. You have a healthy tune!

Side Note: This is the first auto log I've seen, and when I first saw it, I was like where are the big swings in timing/throttle input etc... normally seen with shifting a manual...then I realized from the 100% constant throttle that this was a 5EAT!

Again, thanks, edmundu! I am attaching a log I took yesterday after an exhaust modification. If I interpreted your input correctly this latest log reflects increased horsepower. Using the time line the 0-60 time dropped from around 5.8 to 5.0, which confirms my driving impressions. Braketorqueing it now produces multiple tire protests :) This log includes the air sensor voltage you mentioned. Your input is valued. Thanks.

[SeeeeeYa]

Remember, the attached file is a .csv file resuffixed with the .pdf extension so it could be posted here. To use it, first save it, then change the .pdf to .csv and it will load into DDD, etc.

[2006Specb122]

OK EVERYONE! First question:

What do I need to do data logging? What software/hardware how much does it costs and where do I get it? AP from Cobb part of that?

[2006Specb122]

Second question:

Data logging is fun but I want to make some changes before I start this activity. I was excited about going stage 2 with my new subaru.

However, I just got an email from Cobb stating that they haven't finished their TBE exhaust yet and thus do not have the Stage 2 available.

What is that? So no one has stage 2? Why would you be able to download stage 2 maps if they dont' have the TBE yet? I guess they were created with someone elses TBE? Then the maps aren't tuned speicially for the Cobb TBE? Correct?

Input appreciated... sorry to hijack this are but it is somewhat related. :)

[mccorry]

1.) do a search.... there is a free program you can download. They you just need a laptop with a serial port and a datalink cable. The Cobb AP cable will work fine if you have one.

2.) You don't need a TBE for Stage 2. All that is required is a Downpipe. I am running stg 2 right now with an uppipe and downpipe... stock cat back.

[PhilT]

OK EVERYONE! First question:

What do I need to do data logging? What software/hardware how much does it costs and where do I get it? AP from Cobb part of that?

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20090

http://www.tari.co.za/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl

[edmundu]

Again, thanks, edmundu! I am attaching a log I took yesterday after an exhaust modification. If I interpreted your input correctly this latest log reflects increased horsepower. Using the time line the 0-60 time dropped from around 5.8 to 5.0, which confirms my driving impressions. Braketorqueing it now produces multiple tire protests :) This log includes the air sensor voltage you mentioned. Your input is valued. Thanks.

The MAFv are good at 4.52v. Your timing is good too, and if you had a little more octane there looks to be room in the tune to accommodate it. Just remember that there is 200ms(0.2 sec) between data points, so it could be closer, but it still is clearly showing gains.

Your memory addresses for the IAM and Load are incorrect. For the IAM you should see values no higher than 1.0. For load they should be in the 3.xx range or lower. What hex address are you using? If you search, I put mine up, and I think Kgreb has slightly different ones. This is due to different firmwares being used by Subaru. No biggie, but it does give additional insight into confirming the ECM is happy.

[SeeeeeYa]

Thanks once again. However, over the last several days I have tried every FFxxxx address in EcuExplorer under User-Defined Data Items without success. It reports my ECU as AJ18A(6824) whatever that means. There are other addresses such as (80224A) for example but everyone has said it is an FFxxxx address. Engine Load also eludes me. HELP! Anyone!

[KGreb]

Note this link for the proper addresses: http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=366904&postcount=41

Also, select only the two user-defined data elements that are relevant for your car. Selecting too much data with the default agressive serial port parameters can cause problems. If you run into a lot of corrupted data, change the serial port parameters in EcuExplorer to something less agressive.

[SeeeeeYa]

Thanks KGreb, I will try this again. After no success earlier I searched and found the referenced post, tried the included addresses but none worked. It was after that I began at the bottom and started up, trying them all. I'll try these again, could have been me.

I have found that logging the WRONG address can introduce data that will ruin a logfile.

[SeeeeeYa]

Today I tried logging IAM and engine load once again. First I used addresses that KGreb and edmundu suggested. The engine load eventually seemed to work (figures in the 2.xx range) after unpairing it with wrong IAM addresses??!! The address is FF50B0, for engine load in g. However, neither the IAM addresses suggested, nor ANY of those that appear in the EcuExplorer window for selection (I did them all for the 2nd time, 26 in all) worked. I am stumped. I've tried logging a minimum of parameters, no change. I stopped, then started the application - between each address- and selected it anew. Everything else I have tried to log, and as many as I have yet chosen, works fine. One other thing, I never got the load to work until a) I didn't have it chosen at the same time as a WRONG IAM address, and b) it had to be last in order, i.e., if I checked the engine load box after the iam it appeared next to last and didn't work. I know it's confusing. I am open to suggestions.

[edmundu]

Have you tried posting on the Tari board? Calvin, the software creator, might be able to give additional pointer's. So of all the different addresses, what were some of you number's on them? I'm surprised that the 2 given by me and Kgreb didn't work...

[SeeeeeYa]

I'm surprised, too. But one of them worked, finally, the engine load one. Some numbers were 255, strings of numbers, pound signs, etc. all unchanging. It was all so time consuming and complicated while sitting in a running car between logging attempts.

I've considered contacting Calvin, now I will. I'm grateful for the free software and all that it has brought me/us. I just don't like to comment until I have my facts in order.

Thanks again. History says it could still be me and the answer simple. Meanwhile I am enjoying this. Incidentally, what is engine load g produced by? I think someone said it was calculated from a couple of other values. All the values I have seen are like .22 at idle to 2.8x during a run. It WAS great to finally see that work :)

[edmundu]

SeeeeeYa,

Yeah at idle you'll see small values. Under WOT you can see loads into the 3.xx range as well. This is basically airflow. The higher the airflow the higher the load. This is not a hard number(like the MAf volts). So you can manipulate the MAF Volts curve to rescale it. So that one tune says
Tune A:4.5v=250grams/s
Tune B:4.5v=275grams/s

The actual airflow between them is the same, but based on the Grams/s curve, it will have the ecu believe there is a higher load. Hence the ECU will use a different load site, which influences what AFR targets are plus timing/fuel as well.

Piggybacks like UTEC and others do this as an intercept or trick the ECU, whereas Protune and Ecutek have the ability to directly modify/rescale the MAF table curves. This is all done so that you can accurately portray the given conditions to the ecu, so it can make the best decision on what values to use.

[SeeeeeYa]

edmundu,

Being a glutton for punishment, can you direct me to some literature/website that will enable me to understand the schematic architecture of the ECU? Some of the things you tell me make my brain itch. I'm pretty computer/electronics literate, but no programmer.

Having now logged, used it to evaluate and compare modifications, maps, tunes, etc. has changed my relationship with cars forever. No way but forward. Thanks.

[edmundu]

edmundu,

Being a glutton for punishment, can you direct me to some literature/website that will enable me to understand the schematic architecture of the ECU? Some of the things you tell me make my brain itch. I'm pretty computer/electronics literate, but no programmer.

Having now logged, used it to evaluate and compare modifications, maps, tunes, etc. has changed my relationship with cars forever. No way but forward. Thanks.


Hahaha, this stuff sucked me right in as well. I don't have any specific locations, but, alot of info was cultivated over years of screwing with project cars of mine. Thinking back, I could have figured out some of my past tuning issues sooo much easier had I had the knowledge I do today! As for some more Subaru ECU help, check Accessecu.com, Ecutek.com.

[sandwood]

OK, so this is my first time, so bear with me. This is First gear, into second, then a little way into third. What sort of values am I looking at.... Seems like logging intake temps is not very useful when it is so cold out? knock correction looks good. comments? Can someone remind me the most useful things to log? TIA.

RPM I.temp. Timing KC Volt MAP(PSI)
2585 29.00 40 4 2.680 12.769
2781 29.00 37 4 2.820 13.929
2896 29.00 36 4 2.860 14.220
3126 29.00 37 3 2.920 14.365
3266 29.00 35 4 3.100 15.380
3507 29.00 33 4 3.200 15.961
3766 29.00 30 3 3.380 16.831
3972 29.00 28 4 3.520 17.847
4161 29.00 18 3 3.740 19.008
4545 29.00 17 3 3.940 20.604
4757 29.00 17 3 4.000 21.620
5059 29.00 21 3 3.980 21.329
5379 29.00 21 2 4.060 21.910
5603 29.00 22 2 4.000 20.314
5860 29.00 30 2 3.760 16.976
5840 29.00 45 0 3.020 10.592
5880 29.00 38 0 1.660 4.788
5697 29.00 32 0 1.540 3.627
5401 29.00 27 0 2.740 3.773

3918 29.00 14 5 3.920 24.086
4307 29.00 16 6 4.140 26.118
4353 29.00 18 7 4.260 28.149
4552 29.00 19 7 4.420 30.325
4808 29.00 22 9 4.660 32.937
5029 29.00 21 7 4.660 34.824
5319 28.00 21 6 4.640 33.663
5502 28.00 21 4 4.640 32.792
5713 28.00 21 3 4.700 32.502
5931 28.00 21 3 4.720 32.357
6129 27.00 22 2 4.740 32.357
6312 27.00 22 1 4.740 31.922
6480 27.00 22 0 4.740 31.631
6677 26.00 23 0 4.720 31.486
6853 26.00 23 0 4.700 29.890

6465 26.00 17 0 4.020 8.125
6123 26.00 19 0 2.140 5.514
5814 25.00 19 0 2.520 4.353
5571 25.00 27 -1 3.700 12.478

4838 25.00 19 3 4.120 20.894
4894 25.00 -4 9 4.400 25.537
5013 25.00 23 9 4.580 30.035
5118 25.00 21 7 4.720 34.243
5194 25.00 20 5 4.660 34.678
5334 25.00 20 4 4.640 33.663
5455 25.00 19 3 4.680 32.792
5578 25.00 19 2 4.680 32.647
5665 25.00 19 1 4.700 32.937
5746 25.00 19 1 4.740 32.792
5775 24.00 19 1 4.380 27.278
5813 24.00 35 0 3.560 5.949
5527 24.00 30 0 2.700 4.933
5287 24.00 22 0 3.200 4.063
4966 24.00 19 0 1.920 4.063
4679 24.00 19 0 2.380 3.773
4386 24.00 19 0 2.280 3.482
4144 24.00 19 0 2.500 3.337

[edmundu]

Useful Parameter's:

Rpm
MAP
Baro Psi
Fuel Inj Duty
Ign Timing
KC
Load
IAM
Wastegate Duty
IAT
Throttle Opening
Maf Volts
Relative Manifold PSI - (easier to read boost, rather than subtracting Absolute from Barometric)

Log looks good Sandwood. Strong timing, holding steady til redline. Mid-upper teens thru trq peak then riding into the mid-upper 20's. Nice MAf V, definitely flowing some air there! +KC values, although trailing off up top, it looks like there is some room to use better fuel, and have some benefit from it.

[sandwood]

now trying this converted to pdf with a few more values...



relevant info: 93 octane BP (not my regular gas), around 32 degrees, 20g with FMIC (showing about 20 psi peak), K&N intake, custom AP tune....

[TDC Tuning]

I think that your car has alot more power hidden away in that tune

[sandwood]

Yes, I think that might be true. Since tuning it, I took out a 2.5" neck/restriction in the CObb DP. Also, I specifically asked for a very safe tune (from Agile). I am eager to take another crack at it, and to get a dyno run with the cutout open wide....

how do you read wastegate duty cycles again? (what do they mean etc.)

[edmundu]

Yes, I think that might be true. Since tuning it, I took out a 2.5" neck/restriction in the CObb DP. Also, I specifically asked for a very safe tune (from Agile). I am eager to take another crack at it, and to get a dyno run with the cutout open wide....

how do you read wastegate duty cycles again? (what do they mean etc.)

It looks like the boost is tapered off up top, so their is room for more there, and if you asked for a safe tune, it is likely running into the 10's on AFR. You can safely lean it out some more, being that you have a fmic an all...

Wastegate Duty: The higher the % duty, the more the air is diverted away from the wastegate actuator. Thereby keeping the wastegate closed longer.

IF the duty % is lower, it allows more boost to push on the actuator. Thereby blowing open the wastegate, and controlling the turbine speed which is how boost is controlled.

[mccorry]

Well.... I finally got around to datalogging my Cobb Stg. 2 flash.
The car has a catless up pipe, Cobb catted downpipe, and is running Cobb Stg 2 91 oct.

Can you guys take a look at these and make sure everything looks alright? All 4 were done in 3rd gear. Pull 1 is 3rd into 4th... while pull 2 is only a partial pull..... I had to let out for traffic.


---------------------
deleted datalogs... reposted just below......

[mccorry]

OK... did the pulls yesterday with Stg 2 and the stock air box....
Then today... made a few more with Stg. 2 and the K&N. Only other change was the ambient temperature (it is much warmer today).....

I didn't get even 1 - KC value...... Maybe the KnN Typhoon isn't that bad to run with Cobb Stage 2.

Please let me know what you guys think....

[mccorry]

Oh... and all pulls were approx 1 minute apart (both days....)

[Mblock66]

I am not sure the knock is the only thing you should be concerned about. You can't get the correct AFR's with the software so you could still be running like super super lean without knowing it

[PhilT]

From the logs, the first thing i see is that your MAF is reduced considerably since fitting the K&N, but your boost pressure is up. This indicates that the MAF sensor isn't reading correctly, presumably de to the turbulence in the air, exactly the same as what I experienced. The boost is still much lower than I would have expected to see with Stg 2, 18 psi is the normal figure I think.

As Matt points out, the stock AFR sensor is maxed out at 11.025, but I'm not sure that will give you a reading at all once you go open loop. It's possible you could be very lean, but as you have all positive KC I don't think that's the case.

If you still have your EGT sensor in place it would be a great help to see what temps you are getting.

I think you could extract a lot more power with a tune, although I don't think you will be harming anything by leaving the K&N on, if only you could see your EGT's to be sure.

If you have any intention of a Protune in the future, I would remove it, and put it back on when you get tuned, but that's just my €0.02 :cool:

[Jon [in CT]]

I understand why people attach their logs as .pdf files. But, please people, don't convert your .csv files to real PDF documents before attaching them. It is impossible to do any serious analysis of the data in a spreadsheet or graphics program when the data are in a PDF document.

Simply rename your .csv files to .pdf prior to attaching and include the following as the last line in your post:
The following are .csv files.

[Beanboy]

Attached are two logs in .csv format... One in 2nd and one in 3rd. Also attached "real" pdf versions. Curious why wastegate duty cycle isn't 100%? Also didn't log AFR...doh! Might give it another shot later in the week, but I'm getting Pro Tuned Monday, so no huge deal. Just wanted to give it a shot!

2nd gear was flat ground, so didn't hit full boost...

Everything look normal to folks?

[autoeng]

Hi all,

Just looking through this thread, but I notice a critical data channel that's missing in your logs: coolant temp. It is really hard to understand what's happening if you can't see if the coolant temp was the same from file to file. While MAF is a critical input for base maps, ECT is generally used to correct those base maps.

Likewise, since you're looking at MAF, I would also log intake cam position duty cycle and tumble valve DC as well, just for comparison.

Not trying to be critical, just trying to help you guys make the best comparisions possible.

autoeng
05 LGT 5MT

[edmundu]

Hi all,

Just looking through this thread, but I notice a critical data channel that's missing in your logs: coolant temp. It is really hard to understand what's happening if you can't see if the coolant temp was the same from file to file. While MAF is a critical input for base maps, ECT is generally used to correct those base maps.

Likewise, since you're looking at MAF, I would also log intake cam position duty cycle and tumble valve DC as well, just for comparison.

Not trying to be critical, just trying to help you guys make the best comparisions possible.

autoeng
05 LGT 5MT

Good points made. However, it is generally assumed that anyone datalogging under WOT, will have the engine up to operating temps, before starting logs.

[edmundu]

Here is my latest log! All I have to say is wow...:icon_surp

The first one is the actual datalog, just change the file ext. & the 2nd is in PDF format for easy viewing.

[trabbic]

Here is my latest log! All I have to say is wow...:icon_surp

The first one is the actual datalog, just change the file ext. & the 2nd is in PDF format for easy viewing.

That is just impressive! :icon_surp Who did your tune? Boost is ROCK solid...

[Mblock66]

So what do you think you are going to run at etown now man? 12.5?

[edmundu]

That is just impressive! :icon_surp Who did your tune? Boost is ROCK solid...


Tony of XXTuning in Hartford, CT. Nice shop, awesome tuner!

[edmundu]

So what do you think you are going to run at etown now man? 12.5?

Well, I'm not the best launcher, coupled with the fact that I'm sheepish with the tranny, mid 12's seems attainable. It's really the trap speed that I want, something in the 113-116mph range. This car pulls like a freight train on the highway...

[SeeeeeYa]

In my experience your expected mph is associated with mid 11's. Holy cowl, Batman!

[REM87O]

Mccorry thanks for the cutepdf link. Works great.

Here is one of my logs. Thoughts anyone?

16840

[edmundu]

Mccorry thanks for the cutepdf link. Works great.

Here is one of my logs. Thoughts anyone?

16840

If you want to know what's going on under WOT, you need to log it. With the exception for a very brief area between 5289-5900 rpm's, you weren't at WOT. The ecu uses much different timing/fuel tables under part throttle, than at WOT. Mostly it hunts for stoic(closed loop), and uses the front O2 sensor for feedback. Under WOT it is using open loop.

I find it easiset to log by triggering the log just before going WOT, then either run through a couple of gears, or just start your log from say 2.5K in 3rd, and then just rev it out, then stop the log. You can then clean it up, so that you only have a couple of seconds prior to & after the 100% throttle.

[REM87O]

Thanks! I will try again tomorrow.

[Luminati]

Nevermind, http://www.legacygt.com/forums/skynetim/misc/find.gif (http://www.legacygt.com/forums/search.php?do=finduser&userid=5292) finallly worked.

- Luminati

[Luminati]

So, who uses EcuExplorer and who uses the DL1? After looking through EcuExplorer, its not for first timers from what i can figure out. Anyone willing to chime in and help me out? Can't figure out which one to use.

- Luminati

[PhilT]

EcuExplorer is a development of DL1, and is better in just about every way. It's not difficult to use at all, just plug and play :icon_bigg

[REM87O]

Two at WOT:

16894

16895

What is considered a low AFR? Below 11?

[mccorry]

I don't see anything that looks questionable.....

[Luminati]

Isn,t 11:1 AFR considered optimal?

-Luminati

[CFar]

Looking at stock logs, it seems MAF readings are different for each car. Phil, you had 200's on your stock readings a while ago, and though I cant find any others except my own, the readings for mine are different by 20, stock to stock. It seems like its hard to compare apples to apples.

[SeeeeeYa]

Anyone, esp edmundu who has helped me before

The first logs I did were back in December 05 and January 06, and since I hadn't made any changes and the car runs great I haven't done more until this past week and today. Since I am doing my uppipe finally, after waiting for warmer weather, I wanted a reference log for a before and after comparison. Most parameters look essentially the same except the EGTs which are higher and worry me.

The log I attach is from my road 'dyno', a steep interstate hill with slow lanes and on/off ramps on both sides. This is a 3rd gear 2k to 4th run. Outside temp was mid 60s, sunny.

I took the parameters from a posted edmundu log, but welcome suggestions for adding or subtracting any. This is a TDC e-tune with which I have been very happy. Talking to Jon via IM, he advises that once the up cat is gone EGT will decrease 100c. The temps only go this high after staying in the throttle near the top of 4th gear after starting at 2k in 3rd. It wants to hang there instead of shifting for some TCU reason.

Thanks everyone.

This is a .csv renamed .pdf.

[Luminati]

Ive can't figure out how to view the files .csv renamed to .pdf :confused: !!?A!!

what program do i need to change them? Ive tried the Open office, and CutePDF. But, im not too good with Document type programs.

- Luminati

[ilh]

Save it as file.csv instead of file.pdf. Your browser likely has some kind of "save link as" capability. If that doesn't work, rename the saved file however you normally rename files.

[PhilT]

Right click on the attached file, then "save target as"

Change the file extension to .csv and then save.

Open with Excel.

[edmundu]

Anyone, esp edmundu who has helped me before

The first logs I did were back in December 05 and January 06, and since I hadn't made any changes and the car runs great I haven't done more until this past week and today. Since I am doing my uppipe finally, after waiting for warmer weather, I wanted a reference log for a before and after comparison. Most parameters look essentially the same except the EGTs which are higher and worry me.

The log I attach is from my road 'dyno', a steep interstate hill with slow lanes and on/off ramps on both sides. This is a 3rd gear 2k to 4th run. Outside temp was mid 60s, sunny.

I took the parameters from a posted edmundu log, but welcome suggestions for adding or subtracting any. This is a TDC e-tune with which I have been very happy. Talking to Jon via IM, he advises that once the up cat is gone EGT will decrease 100c. The temps only go this high after staying in the throttle near the top of 4th gear after starting at 2k in 3rd. It wants to hang there instead of shifting for some TCU reason.

Thanks everyone.

This is a .csv renamed .pdf.

You put your foot into it, and went WOT for 20+ seconds, uphill, in 77* air, with a custom tune and your engine didn't complain :icon_bigg !

IMO, you have slightly elevated EGT's, but coupled with the fact that you still have an UP cat, I completely agree with Jon here, in that your EGT's will drop by 150-175* once you get rid of the UP cat.

There's a reason why Subaru didn't put one on the STI. Sustained WOT will cause any engine's EGT's to rise, particularly uphill under a nice load.

Rest easy, your car is running well. You could use a touch more timing in the mid range, but I see that the ecu was reducing dynamic advance, likely due to increasing load from the uphill pull. This too helped contribute to the higher EGT's.

[Luminati]

Usually the most obvious escapes me. Thanks guys, you saved the rest of my hair form being pulled out.

Ill post some logs of Cobb Stg2 1.10 vs. 1.115 later today and see if there is any big diffrence.

- Luminati

[SeeeeeYa]

You put your foot into it, and went WOT for 20+ seconds, uphill, in 77* air, with a custom tune and your engine didn't complain :icon_bigg !

IMO, you have slightly elevated EGT's, but coupled with the fact that you still have an UP cat, I completely agree with Jon here, in that your EGT's will drop by 150-175* once you get rid of the UP cat.

There's a reason why Subaru didn't put one on the STI. Sustained WOT will cause any engine's EGT's to rise, particularly uphill under a nice load.

Rest easy, your car is running well. You could use a touch more timing in the mid range, but I see that the ecu was reducing dynamic advance, likely due to increasing load from the uphill pull. This too helped contribute to the higher EGT's.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I have been on pins and needles over this. This is what I had hoped to hear. My imagination, and some recent posts about what can go wrong, was working some cruel overtime. Next,....out out damned cat!

What would we do without you, edmundu.

My next post should be better.

[Luminati]

Well, here is one of the maps i promised, i can't do the the other one until i get my Cobb AP cable fixed. Long story short 2 wires are broken inside.


- Luminati

[SeeeeeYa]

IMO, you have slightly elevated EGT's, but coupled with the fact that you still have an UP cat, I completely agree with Jon here, in that your EGT's will drop by 150-175* once you get rid of the UP cat.


Once again, you are the MAN, exactly. Although my logs today were in near 100* IAT's the EGT's were 150*-175* lower, making me very happy. Whew!

Also, despite a much warmer day my logs indicate about the same readings as before when IAT's were a lot lower, leading me to believe good things are happening. Oddly, I don't really sense any seat of the pants difference except this; the best I can explain the nebulous subjectivive difference between before UP with cat, and UP without cat is..... smooth. However, the logs tell the story, as always.

I have posted elsewhere in these forums one of my observations regarding the stock uppipe. Whenever I have a chance to log with conditions similar to those posted before I will comment further.

Much work, pain and suffering happily assimilated.

:)

[edmundu]

Once again, you are the MAN, exactly. Although my logs today were in near 100* IAT's the EGT's were 150*-175* lower, making me very happy. Whew!....

:)

Told you, you had nothing to worry about! Glad it's running well, and the biggest change there is to note sans UP cat, is faster turbo spoolup, but this is tougher to discern in the 5EAT.

[SeeeeeYa]

Exactly, brake torqueing it now to 3k for 0-60 times, unlike before, comes easily, and consistently makes all four tires bark in protest. Shamefully, I also enjoy the obvious turbo whine in slow traffic, and the turned heads of ricer boys as they let me pass by.

Next weekend we'll be going on another get-away that will allow me to determine what effect this mod will have on gas mileage. So far every modification that has increased measurable performance has resulted in a measurable increase in gas mileage as well. Not only does this make sense, it also allows my 'playtime' to be absorbed in the overall scope of things. After all, adding horsepower is for one thing only, and better gas mileage just a clever subterfuge, eh? :)

[Luminati]

OKay finally got the AP cable fixed! ( damn, shoulda took pictures). Oh well, here are the log of the Cobb STG2 V 1.10 vs. 1.15 .

Noticed a drop in boost max of 17 vs 16. But haven't had much of a chance to look over them too much yet.


These are .csv renamed .pdf


- Luminati

[LittleBlueGT]

pdf files don't work for me.

[Luminati]

Save to your computer as .csv files then view them with Excel or the Delta Dash Demo.


- Luminati

[SeeeeeYa]

Once again I am stumped trying to understand a logging result, and ask for enlightenment from the more experienced.

Specifically, up until I removed the cat from my uppipe my AFR's were always 11.14, but every log since the cat removal the AFR's have been ll.02. Why??

And IAT's really play a BIG role in performance, the higher they are the less power is made. Question #2, does an IC sprayer help enough to bother?

An upgraded TMIC's importance is obvious now.

[REM87O]

Mine have been pegged at 11.02 as well the last couple of logs and I think I am going to spring for a wideband with a gauge.

[LittleBlueGT]

Finally got this data-logging thing figured out. Pretty cool.
I am a bit worried though, my KC starts to climb (negative values) at higher RPMs. I have done about 7 runs and it always climbs about the same. I am running COBB stage 1, 91 octane, use the best Canadian gas I can find near me. I also have an ION header and UP. I wonder if the car needs to be tuned for this to work properly? From the turbo back the exhaust is still stock, but that will change soon!

I don't have the ability to change a csv to a pdf ext.

At 3600 rpm the KC goes to -1
At 3900 rpm the KC goes to -3
At 5900 rpm the KC goes to between -4 and -7 till 7000 rpms.

Any input is appreciated.

[edmundu]

Finally got this data-logging thing figured out. Pretty cool.
I am a bit worried though, my KC starts to climb (negative values) at higher RPMs. I have done about 7 runs and it always climbs about the same. I am running COBB stage 1, 91 octane, use the best Canadian gas I can find near me. I also have an ION header and UP. I wonder if the car needs to be tuned for this to work properly? From the turbo back the exhaust is still stock, but that will change soon!

I don't have the ability to change a csv to a pdf ext.

At 3600 rpm the KC goes to -1
At 3900 rpm the KC goes to -3
At 5900 rpm the KC goes to between -4 and -7 till 7000 rpms.

Any input is appreciated.

Just change the file ext, to the letter's pdf, and upload them to the site. Then we can just change it back and view it in native csv format....

[LittleBlueGT]

Just change the file ext, to the letter's pdf, and upload them to the site. Then we can just change it back and view it in native csv format....

How do you do that?

I have the file opened up in excel. If I change it to .pdf it just goes ***.pdf.csv. What gives? Is there a different way to change extensions?

[trabbic]

How do you do that?

I have the file opened up in excel. If I change it to .pdf it just goes ***.pdf.csv. What gives? Is there a different way to change extensions?

Right click on the file and click "rename"

You may have to enable extensions for known file types, to do this:

Click "Start", Click "My Computer", Click "Tools", Click "Folder Options", Click "View", UN-Check "Hide Extensions for known File Types".

[LittleBlueGT]

Right click on the file and click "rename"

You may have to enable extensions for known file types, to do this:

Click "Start", Click "My Computer", Click "Tools", Click "Folder Options", Click "View", UN-Check "Hide Extensions for known File Types".

Edmundu just pmed me the details, but thanks.

[trabbic]

Finally got this data-logging thing figured out. Pretty cool.
I am a bit worried though, my KC starts to climb (negative values) at higher RPMs. I have done about 7 runs and it always climbs about the same. I am running COBB stage 1, 91 octane, use the best Canadian gas I can find near me. I also have an ION header and UP. I wonder if the car needs to be tuned for this to work properly? From the turbo back the exhaust is still stock, but that will change soon!

I don't have the ability to change a csv to a pdf ext.

At 3600 rpm the KC goes to -1
At 3900 rpm the KC goes to -3
At 5900 rpm the KC goes to between -4 and -7 till 7000 rpms.

Any input is appreciated.

I also want to see your logs to see what your timing is at. You might consider using the 91 octane California tune to see if you can eliminate some of that KC.

Do you ever hear any pinging or detonation? Does the car still pull hard, or does it feel as though the car is reigning you in?

[LittleBlueGT]

OK here are the logs renamed .pdf.


I am running COBB stage 1, 91 octane, use the best Canadian gas I can find near me. I also have an ION header and UP. I wonder if the car needs to be tuned for this to work properly? From the turbo back the exhaust is still stock, but that will change soon!

[REM87O]

Is it just me or did LittleBlue's first file not open?

[LittleBlueGT]

Is it just me or did LittleBlue's first file not open?

You have to right-click and save target as, then change the .pdf to .csv and open from the saved location.

[edmundu]

Is it just me or did LittleBlue's first file not open?

Me too. The 2nd one was fine, but for whatever reason the first comes up as corrupt in DD. This is after changing to csv.

Edit: I opened in excel, and noticed it had been saved in xls format instead of csv. So open the file in Excel and save as *.csv format, and then it opens right up in DD...

[edmundu]

From perusing the datalogs, you certainly appear to require a retune. You are getting more than just noise in the peak trq rpms range as well as up top from 5.5-6.5k, That's detonation you are experiencing. It is pulling alot of timing from even the base map. This is confirmed when you see negative(-KC) values. If you were just seeing smaller positive values it could be interpreted as a little noise...

You also could have gotten a bad tank of gas. Have you checked what your IAM is at? I would back off for this tank of gas, and then try and fill up from a known good source, and log again. If the same thing happens, then you know the tune is not agreeing with your headers.

Did you have before logs? What did they look like?

[trabbic]

I agree with edmundu, you are getting heavy pinging, perhaps even detonation, can you hear anything like crackling coming from the motor when you get the -KC?

Also I see that your throttle angle is not 100 percent, do you have floor mats in the way, are you pushing all the way down on the gas? It might not be going into open loop...

I agree, stay out of it until you can get some different gas, then re-log.

EDIT: Try the CA 91 tune...

[LittleBlueGT]

Thanks for all the info.

I will try the CA 91 octane gas map.

Also, if I use the AP to reset the ECU, does it reset the learning ability? Or do I have to disconnect the battery?

I have not logged before, just learned how a few days ago.

As far as throttle opening, I am sure it is all the way to the floor. Maybe I have to adjust something behind the throttle?

I could play around with the first file, but they all look the same anyways!

[LittleBlueGT]

Loaded Cali 91 octane map and now it is worse, sometimes even seeing -9 KC values.

I looked at the headers and everything is bolted up tight (I thought that might be the cause of the noise). I really don't hear any noise with the windows down at high rpm, it sounds fairly smooth to me. Not as smooth as some cars that I have owned, but smooth non-the-less.

I data-logged a lot more info this time, incase it gives any insight into what is going on. Maybe headers w/o DP is just not a good thing.

Another quick question. Is there anyway to log after IC temps?

[LittleBlueGT]

From perusing the datalogs, you certainly appear to require a retune. You are getting more than just noise in the peak trq rpms range as well as up top from 5.5-6.5k, That's detonation you are experiencing. It is pulling alot of timing from even the base map. This is confirmed when you see negative(-KC) values. If you were just seeing smaller positive values it could be interpreted as a little noise...

You also could have gotten a bad tank of gas. Have you checked what your IAM is at? I would back off for this tank of gas, and then try and fill up from a known good source, and log again. If the same thing happens, then you know the tune is not agreeing with your headers.

Did you have before logs? What did they look like?

What is IAM?

[LittleBlueGT]

I agree with edmundu, you are getting heavy pinging, perhaps even detonation, can you hear anything like crackling coming from the motor when you get the -KC?

Also I see that your throttle angle is not 100 percent, do you have floor mats in the way, are you pushing all the way down on the gas? It might not be going into open loop...

I agree, stay out of it until you can get some different gas, then re-log.

EDIT: Try the CA 91 tune...

Last post for a while I promise!

I took off my throttle sensor, and adjusted it a bit. Still reads a solid 99.61%. Is this going to affect anything? It is not the gas pedal or adjustment, it is the sensor. Now at about 93% gas peddle pushage it reads 99.61% and from 93-100 pushage it reads 99.61%.

Only way to get it too read 100% (I would think would be to get a new sensor).

[edmundu]

IAM= Ignition Advance Multiplier

It is under user defined settings. You will need to figure out which address your ecu uses. Mine is FF267C, but yours may be different.

Also, you should activate Load, again your memory address may differ.Mine was FF50B0.

Your accelerator opening angle may not get to 100%, mine doesn't either, BUT your throttle opening angle should read 100%!

[LittleBlueGT]

IAM multiplier is 1.00

I have load activated as well, it should be in last log I posted.

My throttle opening angle does indeed get to 100%.


All good info thanks again.

I have noticed that regardless of which map I am on, and fuel additive it does not seem to matter. (getting octane boost tomorrow) I get the -KC values. It was as high as -6 or -7 when it was cool outside, now it is fairly warm and it is as high as -9.

I enabled the Knock Signal #1 and it never reads anything but 0. Is it possible that some other thing is causing the -KC values other then knock?

[TSi+WRX]

Using an oiled intake?

Check your MAF to see that it's clean?

:(

[trabbic]

Using an oiled intake?

Check your MAF to see that it's clean?

:(

Good idea! There must just be some noise or something, try flashing to stock and do some logs.... I wonder if one of the tuners might have some insight here?

[LittleBlueGT]

Using an oiled intake?

Check your MAF to see that it's clean?

:(

Using a K&N replacement drop in filter. I have never oiled it, just put it in. I suppose it could have been over-oiled from factory. Car feels fairly strong though. I once had a fouled MAF snesor in my Maxima because of a K&N airfilter that I oiled, it was a very noticeable loss in power.

[TSi+WRX]

^ Hum, that's very strange - from the factory, it definitely shouldn't have come over-oiled, particularly if it had been sitting "stock" somewhere.

Give the MAF a look-see, regardless, I would say, as it's super easy to pull.

I forgot who on here had some -KC troubles after an aftermarket TMIC install...but if I remember correctly, it simply turned out to be a dirty MAF.

Might as well give it a look-see. :)

[trabbic]

Just had a thought, if it is not the MAF (it is possible); then, could it be your headers rattling? Do they rub anywhere? You wouldn't hear it, but the vibration may be causing noise the the knock sensor could hear...

[LittleBlueGT]

Just had a thought, if it is not the MAF (it is possible); then, could it be your headers rattling? Do they rub anywhere? You wouldn't hear it, but the vibration may be causing noise the the knock sensor could hear...

I got some non-chlorinated brake cleaner today to clean the MAF. I really don't think it is the MAF because I get readings of over 230g/s sometimes, and that is about the highest I have seen for stage 1.

I will also take off the lower engine cover and see if I can see some rattling potential.

[edmundu]

I didn't think the header's would increase efficiency that much, but it is possible that the engine doesn't need as much advance now? Basically the volume of the header's combined with the UP, allow more exhaust to fit, thereby lowering/delaying the backpressure seen in the cylinder, hence the ecu doesn't feel the need to ignite the mixture as early as it needed to before.

Cobb also likes to run lots of timing in their maps too. You would still benefit from a tune, because the ecu is still needing to play catchup, rather than picking the right timing curves to begin with.....

[LittleBlueGT]

Again thanks for the response. I will try and repay the community by helping out whoever I can when they are having a problem.

Just cleaned MAF sensor, no change!

Put in a bottle of NOS octane boost and saw -KC go down to -4!

Put in another bottle of octane boost as we speak. Writing from my laptop in my car (wireless internet is cool). I will write back with the results.

I am sure last time I put in 91 octane, my bill shows it, and it is from a reliable source. I only have half a tank, so right now I should be at about 97 octane.

Time to drive and log.

[LittleBlueGT]

Obviously my knock sensor works properly, and my MAF works properly.

The octane boost did the trick, but at a cost of $25 per 1/3 tank of gas!!!!

I will try the stock map next time I fill up if I get -KC values again.

This time when I was driving I listened real carefully for knock. I heard it for about 1/10 of a second and then could not hear it anymore. After the two bottles of octane boost I could no longer hear it at all. Car felt a bit stronger but nothing that noticeable. I think Edmundu is right, the headers are having some sort of effect on scaveging. Need a proper tune from TDC, also need a TBE!!!!!!!!!!!

[LittleBlueGT]

Also in the logs I noticed a change to the IAM tables, what does that mean?

One more thing, what does -44% air fuel correction mean?

[trabbic]

I am glad you found it, have you tested on more than one tank of gas? could this be just a bad tank?

A TDC tune will fix this for sure...

[LittleBlueGT]

I am glad you found it, have you tested on more than one tank of gas? could this be just a bad tank?

A TDC tune will fix this for sure...

Just started testing a while ago,so this is the only tank of gas.

NEED TDC, but I want to wait for the TBE.

[Luminati]

Just started testing a while ago,so this is the only tank of gas.

NEED TDC, but I want to wait for the TBE.

+1

Thats all im waiting for also, just gotta scratch up some more money within the next few weeks.

- Luminati

[LittleBlueGT]

Just ordered an E-tune from TDC. It seems he has been very busy, so it might take a while to get it. I will post my results.

[bluechipbmw]

Just ordered an E-tune from TDC. It seems he has been very busy, so it might take a while to get it. I will post my results.

I ordered mine too. How long did he say he it would be? 1 week or 2?

[LittleBlueGT]

I ordered mine too. How long did he say he it would be? 1 week or 2?

Ordered it on his webpage, so I don't know! Hopefully not that long.

[Xanth]

So here we go, got some data in need of interpretation:

2005 Legacy GT MT with 25k
Perrin pulley, HKS catless up, PDE catless dp, Greddy EVO2, K&N Typhoon, GFB BOV, with AP running Stage 2 93oct.




THE FILES ARE CSV THAT I RENAMED PDF FOR DOWNLOAD.
ALL Runs done in 3rd gear unless otherwise noted.


(Ignore the EGT's, I think a wire was loose after my EGT guage install, so I know I need to fix that.)



There is no KC is any daily driving between speedbumps etc.
Seems the KC drops around 6k rpm and when I let off of WOT.



Feedback would be much appreciated.

[REM87O]

What kind of EGT guage are you running?

[Xanth]

A POS Megan Racing gauge, but it appears when I installed my UP I may have damaged my EGT guage. It reads erratically jumping from 698 to higher values, but none of the logs showed anything above 1200. It is such a pain in the ass to replace.

Is there a REAL function in regards to the ECU adjusting fuel parameters, or is it merely for monitoring sake, to ensure it does not exceed 1800? Basically I am not looking forward to changing it out until I get some manifolds.

EDIT: Ok so I really need to become better friends with the Search feature. So the EGTs are prone to failure with aftermarket UPs and when reused, conclusion: it's phukt. 99 cent Radio shack resistor fix here I come.

[LittleBlueGT]

Your MAF readings look low to me. I get higher values at stage1! I think it might have to do with your intake. Jon at TDC has a K&N Typhoon on his car, so maybe he could get you a map.

I am not an expert though, so others please chime in.

[trabbic]

So here we go, got some data in need of interpretation:

2005 Legacy GT MT with 25k
Perrin pulley, HKS catless up, PDE catless dp, Greddy EVO2, K&N Typhoon, GFB BOV, with AP running Stage 2 93oct.




THE FILES ARE CSV THAT I RENAMED PDF FOR DOWNLOAD.
ALL Runs done in 3rd gear unless otherwise noted.


(Ignore the EGT's, I think a wire was loose after my EGT guage install, so I know I need to fix that.)



There is no KC is any daily driving between speedbumps etc.
Seems the KC drops around 6k rpm and when I let off of WOT.



Feedback would be much appreciated.

Looks good so far...

The data sampling rate looks a little slow to me... What program are you using to log? If it is still the Tari DL1, try the new ecuExplorer, it is much faster. Link:
http://www.tari.co.za/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1138965460

Any -KC when NOT on the throttle is OK, at wide open throttle it should not happen very often. Download the ecuExplorer, and try some longer logs.

Do some 3rd gear pulls from ~2000 (27mph) to ~6000+ (87 mph), the higher the better as long as you are safe, especially if you ever rev the engine that high in aggressive driving. Most -KC won't happen until higher rpm. Try empty highway on-ramps...

EDIT: I see you did log higher rpm on the second pull, but the data points were so far apart as to be almost unusable...

[trabbic]

Your MAF readings look low to me. I get higher values at stage1! I think it might have to do with your intake. Jon at TDC has a K&N Typhoon on his car, so maybe he could get you a map.

I am not an expert though, so others please chime in.

He is keeping his rpm pretty low in the logs, higher MAF's happen at higher RPM (along with Higher Horsepower). this could also be because of his K&N filter...

[LittleBlueGT]

He is keeping his rpm pretty low in the logs, higher MAF's happen at higher RPM (along with Higher Horsepower). this could also be because of his K&N filter...

His second one at 6000 rpm showed around 220 g/s, I would expect about 240-250, NO?

[trabbic]

His second one at 6000 rpm showed around 220 g/s, I would expect about 240-250, NO?

Yes you are correct, I would expect at least 230+. But Mass Air I have found is not a good indication of Horsepower. For example, when I was Stage 1 I could hit about 230. But with my Stage 2 TDC tune, I hit about the same or LOWER. But I know I am making a LOT more power, because I had the car to the Dyno... :iam:

[LittleBlueGT]

Update on my -KC values:

I put in Shell gas late last week, and have since logged.

NO -KC values at all!!!!!!!! I am very happy. I guess I know where to buy gas from now on.

With the problems solved to my satisfaction I loaded in TDC's map that I just got yesterday. Was it a big difference, no. I slight noticeable improvement over COBB stage1. Boost comes on a little sooner and feels like it has maybe 5 more hp. Happy none-the-less.

Only problem I have with Jon's map is the rev-limiter seems to be at 7000 rpm now. I can use the extra room up top because with the headers it is still pulling strong up at 7000. I am sure he will fix that for me in time.

[Xanth]

I want to thank everyone for the grea input.

Earlier I did the resistor mod so now I have fixed 1292 EGT.
In addition I put the stock intake back on and now no -KC values.
I will do the new pulls from 2k-7k with the new ECU explorer and then see what ya'll think. I did notice I saw 230 g/s earlier today. But its hot as balls here, so maybe some night pulls will yield better numbers.

[LittleBlueGT]

I want to thank everyone for the grea input.

Earlier I did the resistor mod so now I have fixed 1292 EGT.
In addition I put the stock intake back on and now no -KC values.
I will do the new pulls from 2k-7k with the new ECU explorer and then see what ya'll think. I did notice I saw 230 g/s earlier today. But its hot as balls here, so maybe some night pulls will yield better numbers.

I am new at data-loging and your results are what I kinda thought. Keep us updated.

[Deer Killer]

Obviously my knock sensor works properly, and my MAF works properly.

The octane boost did the trick, but at a cost of $25 per 1/3 tank of gas!!!!

I will try the stock map next time I fill up if I get -KC values again.

This time when I was driving I listened real carefully for knock. I heard it for about 1/10 of a second and then could not hear it anymore. After the two bottles of octane boost I could no longer hear it at all. Car felt a bit stronger but nothing that noticeable. I think Edmundu is right, the headers are having some sort of effect on scaveging. Need a proper tune from TDC, also need a TBE!!!!!!!!!!!

Just getting onto this thread now, but some of the values from the datalogger are wrong, throttle goes to 99.61% only because someone used 256 out of 100, well an 8 bit register only goes to 255, so (100/256)*255=99.609... LOL probably interests no one :/

[trabbic]

Just getting onto this thread now, but some of the values from the datalogger are wrong, throttle goes to 99.61% only because someone used 256 out of 100, well an 8 bit register only goes to 255, so (100/256)*255=99.609... LOL probably interests no one :/

Non-programer/engineer translation:

The reason why the logs say 99.61% instead of 100% is because of a programming error in the Data Logging software NOT because the throttle is not all the way open.

[SeeeeeYa]

Thanks, I needed that. It has bothered me but stopped concerning me after noting other's logs showed the same. Another 'mental Post It' crumpled. :)

[Deer Killer]

Some of you may know that I have had my own datalogger, however after months (and months) of time I have decided to work on it some more, except this time providing some features that seem to be missing.

I've been testing out the algorithms, what I'm doing requires some trick code, beyond what you'd expect anyway. See below for results:

What is measured is true effective torque and power. "crank" torque is not brake torque, it is what everyone else calls wheel torque (but is really a misnomer). Then I added a rough calculation for drag (see "Final HP"). What is interesting here is that we can measure driveline loss! So we should be able to get an actual figure for crank tq/hp if we want to. Wanted to dyno your wheels? Intake? That huge wing you just added? Possible.

Peak HP (with drag): 241HP @5353
Peak TQ (without drag): 259 Ft/lbs@3090
Add in measured loss of ~47HP at that RPM, at crank HP works out to about 288HP. Less than what Cobb advertises, but I'm still working things out in the algo. Pretty damn close to what we expect though.

Stage 2 1.15 (91 I think) gutted UP, cobb DP, Perrin TMIC, 93 oct fuel.

[GTTuner]

I finnally was able to figuire out why my lap to would not work with the Tari software.
I got some data logging done this weekend. When I get a minute today I'll upload a file and hopefully you all can open it and give me some input.
Should be interesting considering many have said I was taking a chance running my Typhoon and