SoA threatens legal action against ravensblade-impreza

[kmin]

Hi guys,

I don't post here very often (if at all), but I wanted to alert the community to an alarming turn of events. As some of you may know, SoA has threatened legal action against www.ravensblade-impreza.com (http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com) and its owner, a fellow Subie enthusiast (even if he drives an Impreza).

I've read the demand letter that their attorneys sent (it's available at the website above) - they completely misconstrue and misinterpret what he is doing, and think he's making money off of them. But more importantly, they argue that using Subaru trademarks in the website name is illegal. This is debatable, but I think it's ultimately a lousy way to treat loyal fans who love their cars. To the mods of this site and other Subaru forums, it's also a warning shot across your bow.

Therefore I strongly urge you, if you want to continue seeing sites like this, to write or call SoA, and demand that they give their enthusiasts better treatment. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Edit: I just found a response letter from SoA over on NASIOC (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=870043&highlight=ravensblade-impreza). In part, it reads:

The reason for this action was to remove the possibility that consumers who visit the site might be confused into believing that the site was somehow an approved or official SUBARU website and also to avoid the diluting affect on our marks of third party uses.

This action was not taken to interfere with the lawful rights of WRX and STi owners to exchange information and share experiences, which we fully respect and appreciate. However, in order to ensure that our trademarks, logos and designs remain protected, under law we are obligated to make certain to the extent possible that others are not using our marks in a manner that makes it appear that we have approved of their use, or are somehow in a business relationship with them. We must also ensure that our marks are not diluted by third party use since such uses, if unchallenged, could eventually narrow the strength of our marks. Since new websites dedicated to SUBARU brand vehicles (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=870043&highlight=ravensblade-impreza#) crop up on the Internet from time to time, we cannot afford to be selective in our enforcement approach, allowing one site to use our marks but not another.

I think SoA has made its legal position clear, regarding sites such as legacygt.com, subaruoutback.org, etc.

[The B4]

Everone is so upset, and they don't realize that they actually went after the site because he was selling stuff with Subaru trademarked images/phrases/etc on them. Hey, guess what... even at no profit, if you sell something, you're a business. I believe that is what you'd call a not-for-profit type business.

The real trick here that they'll have to realize is that CafePress is really the owners of the images that were on the things for sale on his site, as I believe CafePress assumes ownership of any image you upload to sell items with that image on them.

The only thing that leaves to debate is the service manuals... and I guess there isn't much TO debate there.

IMO... take your spankings and run, hope that they don't come after you just "because" at this point. :(


It's like speeding and getting a ticket. you may not have been going that fast and other people were going just as fast or faster than you, but you were the one who got caught. It may be BS but you were still in the wrong. I'm interested in seeing what develops.

[bemani]

Well if he's selling stuff with Impreza written over it, no wonder they sent him that letter.

[DeepFreeze2]

Not to make light of the matter, but......................

IBSoAkickstehpeoplethatsupporttheminteha$$.

I understand where they're coming from with "protecting their trademarks" and such, but we as a community have helped increase the popularity and exposure of those ideas and technologies with our dollars. So they are protecting themselves/that stuff from us?:icon_neut Must be a "Big Business" thing.

[Hi Rev Imports]

Hate to say it...but once this site gets big enough, this forum will have the same problem with its domain name. http://www.imprezawrxsti.com was forced to change to http://www.iwsti.com It stinks! Its just a bunch of lawyers having to prove their worth for the retainer fees they charge.

Chris
chris@hirevmports.com

[godwhomismike]

Ah, he was selling stuff that's why.

[dv8ingvector]

Will I will never buy another Subaru if that happens, and in fact i would not have bought this one with out this sight.

[jagcars26]

Hate to say it...but once this site gets big enough, this forum will have the same problem with its domain name. http://www.imprezawrxsti.com (http://www.imprezawrxsti.com/) was forced to change to http://www.iwsti.com (http://www.iwsti.com/) It stinks! Its just a bunch of lawyers having to prove their worth for the retainer fees they charge.

Chris
chris@hirevmports.com

+1,,imprezawrxsti.com was also selling T shirts etc,,,

Rudy

[Hi Rev Imports]

Yes they were, but the other problem was the fact that vendors were paying to advertise. Therefore, its income brought in from that domain name

Chris

[Scotty]

There's a reason why companies trademark their logos. This happens all the time, not just in this case. If you sell something with someone else's logo without their permission, you will get sued. If they didn't care about other people profiting off their logos, they wouldn't have registered it with the US Patent & Trademark Office.

[gt_ltd]

hmmm maybe we should start a poll to see how many people bought their legacy/outback after reading all the (positive) info found on this site? :>

[Jon [in CT]]

I predict LegacGT.com will get the letter, too. In anticipation of that event, someone should start a "Best New Name for LegacyGT.com" poll. Same thing for a new website logo.

[mach_six]

I thought someone mention the owner of this site has a Subaru connection?

[Nsaglibene]

I say we all just start mailing SOA.

[Jon [in CT]]

I thought someone mention the owner of this site has a Subaru connection?You mean Tide? His only "Subaru connection" is that he owns a 2002 WRX.

BTW, I just realized that www.LegacySTi.com (http://www.LegacySTi.com) is an alias for this site.

[*Jedimaster*]

Meh, I'd ignore the letter. George Lucas sent me a letter about Cult of the Jedi and I sent one back telling him I'd give him a flannel enema if he kept bothering me.

[thegodfather]

Meh, I'd ignore the letter. George Lucas sent me a letter about Cult of the Jedi and I sent one back telling him I'd give him a flannel enema if he kept bothering me.

zing!!!! after reading that i bet he went in to his bed room shut the door and cried while clutching his yoda stuffed animal and sucking his thumb

[The B4]

This isn't Subaru being a bully. It's a business thing. Ipodlounge.com just recently changed their name to Ilounge.com to avoid the heat from Apple. They took it in stride and did it without harsh words. Whether or not a site abuses the illegal use of a trademark name is really not the topic. As a company you either have to use and protect your trademarks or lose them through proliferation and/or stagnation.

[j.reed]

We've got the same thing coming to us provided we continue to have site sponsors and sell merchandise.

Otherwise its fair use.

[melayout]

What's the big deal.

Take out the Subaru trademarks and STFU.

What a bunch of whiney babies.

[gt_ltd]

:eek::jedi:

Meh, I'd ignore the letter. George Lucas sent me a letter about Cult of the Jedi and I sent one back telling him I'd give him a flannel enema if he kept bothering me.

[forestir]

It's unfortunate, but seems pretty common. I figure "why bother?" unless it's actually causing Subura of America harm. I sure hope they don't force this site to change names. I don't think I'd have bought my Subaru without the fanatacism on LegacyGT.com or NASIOC.

You guys are Subaru's greatest marketing force. Seriously. Their TV and print ads mostly suck. They should sue their ad company.

[Edvig]

What's the big deal.

Take out the Subaru trademarks and STFU.

What a bunch of whiney babies.

+1

Subaru and FHI has every right to protect their brands and trademarks. The laws exist for a reason and we should respect them.

If you don't like them...run for the House of Representatives, the Senate or the President and get them changed.

[Jon [in CT]]

A suggestion for a new domain name: 5GT.com

That is unlikely to be anyone's existing registration or trademark, so no cyber-squatting issues. And when people show up there, you bounce them to the home page at 2.5GT.com which isn't a Subaru trademark, meaning you can use it on hats, shirts, etc.

[jim1969]

Jon,
is LGT a trademark?
is Mervyn really a moron?

[Jon [in CT]]

Jon,
is LGT a trademark?Various trademarks on "LGT" are held by LGT Gruppe Stiftung Corporation in Liechtenstein. However, use on a Subaru Legacy bulletin board probably wouldn't be considered "confusing." But the cyber-squatting issue remains, along with the fact that www.LGT.com (http://www.lgt.com/group/en/index.html) is already in use.

[melayout]

Trademarks registered to Fuji Heavy Industries (aka SoA) : http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=es1p.8.1&p_search=searchss&p_L=50&BackReference=&p_plural=yes&p_s_PARA1=&p_tagrepl%7E%3A=PARA1%24LD&expr=PARA1+AND+PARA2&p_s_PARA2=Fuji+Heavy+Industries&p_tagrepl%7E%3A=PARA2%24OW&p_op_ALL=AND&a_default=search&a_search=Submit+Query&a_search=Submit+Query

Legacy trademark : http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=es1p.9.37

[al-gorithm]

edit - missed the couple of posts above

[Jon [in CT]]

Another possibility would be SubieLegs.com which is more general than the 2.5GT.com I suggested earlier and would encompass Legacy models with the 2.0 and 3.0 engines from around the world as well as the 2.5 we get in the US. The "Legs" part might also somehow be incorporated into a new site logo literally as a pair of legs.

In the meantime, I think Chad ought to insert the disclaimer that Subaru likes to see in a prominent place on at least the home page.NOT AUTHORIZED OR APPROVED BY OR AFFILIATED WITH SUBARU OF AMERICA OR FUJI HEAVY INDUSTRIES LTD.

[binary storm]

www.LGT.com

[The B4]

L7.com L7gt.com leggygt.com

LGT reminds me of Lesbian Gay Transgender.

[emorphien]

This is really stupid on Subaru's behalf. It's not as bad as the RIAA nonsense but it's still a bad decision.

[Ridgeracer]

Maybe offer FHI a peace offering?? 10% off the top on all sales and ads.

[Drakuun]

1: "Legacy" is not only a term used in refference to Subarus. Impreza however is instantly recognised, wholly indicative of a Subaru Brand. Legal onus would dictate the only way they can come down on us for using it is because we use it in conjuction with a site about Subarus.

2:"GT" Again, not a wholly recognised or owned moniker however, again used in conjuction with a site about Subaru.

3: We all know that Subaru and SOA people read this site. I'd have to think if they had a problem with something Tide was doing that we've gotten a Cease and Desist already.

If the site name were SubaruLegacyGT.com we might have issues.
If we used subaru logos, fonts, etc, in our site, we'd be in trouble.
If we sold stuff with their logo on it we'd be in trouble.

Selling "Legacy" or "Legacy GT" while branded names are not wholly owned by Subaru.

It would be like Shell Gas Int banning the use of any sort of pectin (or sea shell that resembles their logo) from the internet. It's just not going to happen.
I think Tide does a good job making sure that we aren't riding Subys coat tails and using their brands in a way that suggests that we are "official" to Subaru SOA or FHI.

Then again, I don't know anything about law in regards to copywrit materials, but I would find it highly unlikely that Subaru could lay claim to the word "Legacy", then again, never underestimate lawyers. ;)

[Ridgeracer]

I spoke to a Subaru rep in regards to this matter today. Basically they don't want any unauthorized use of there trademark symbols or sale of any merchandise with there trademarks on it. They are not going to shut down this site. Their only gripe with this site is with all the people who complain amongst themselves about problems with the car. They feel that some people need to voice there complaints directly with them so they can better rectify the problem.

[jim1969]

And when we do voice them to SOA we get: "there is no studdering problem that we're aware of", "what cooling fan issue?".

[Ridgeracer]

And when we do voice them to SOA we get: "there is no studdering problem that we're aware of", "what cooling fan issue?".

Only repeating what they stated. If its actually true or not, I don't know.

[fzanetti]

And when we do voice them to SOA we get: "there is no studdering problem that we're aware of", "what cooling fan issue?".

Exactly!!!!

Hahahahahaha

Flavio Zanetti
Boston, MA

[melayout]

That's what the District Rep and SoA Customer Service is for.

[LittleBlueGT]

I would not have bought my car if it were not for this site.

[jsalicru]

Expect a letter like that come this way, ESPECIALLY after telling people to write to them. This will alert them that this site exists.

This already happened with a STi site. IWSti.com... formerly www.imprezawrxsti.com

They also got a letter like the one listed up there.

[Jon [in CT]]

I would not have bought my car if it were not for this site.So, if this site had initially been established using a non-infringing domain name, you wouldn't have bought your car? What if this site changes its domain name? Would you stop visiting to show Subaru how pissed off you were about it?

[Jon [in CT]]

I hope everyone remembers when the WRX first arrived in the US. Subaru set up a special site, www.ImprezaWRX.com. Subaru still uses that domain today. It takes you directly to the WRX info in their normal site. What if they wanted to set up a similar special site for the Legacy STI called www.LegacySTI.com? They can't because the Chad, the owner of this site, is cyber-squatting on it. Same with www.LegacyGT.com.

[LittleBlueGT]

']So, if this site had initially been established using a non-infringing domain name, you wouldn't have bought your car? What if this site changes its domain name? Would you stop visiting to show Subaru how pissed off you were about it?

I am just saying that this site (along with others) helps Subaru, does not hurt them!

I don't really care for all the legal stuff, I just think it is ridiculous.

[jsalicru]

well, it might be ridiculous, but it doesn't stop them.

There are always two sides to the coin.

[Dean]

Subaru is definitely aware of this site. I completed a 30 minute survey from SOA today online and when asked what websites helped you decide on your purchase LegacyGt.com was one of the choices. I used this site extensively to research this car (as a lot of us have) and it definitely pushed me towards buying the car. People like to know about common problems in a new car and they will findout one way or another, personally I think the variety of Info in this site helps Subaru instead of hurting them.

[red beast]

legaseegt.com

[Jon [in CT]]

SOA's actually using a light touch, because they don't want to kill infringing websites. If they did want to put them out of business they could, for example, skip the letter from the attorney and, instead, simply file suit in the Washington, DC US district court. The webadministrator of record would soon get a certified letter notifying him he's being sued. SOA's attorney would likely offer to settle out of court, provided the webadministrator turned over the domain name, paid SOA's attorney fees, and an additional payment for damages. That, of course, would kill most websites and is why SOA's footing the bill for its own attorneys, so far.

[kenzo]

At the risk of repeating other comments...

Subaru has to protect their trademarks or lose them.

[iyamdman]

I would not have bought my car if it were not for this site.

+1

Still, I am in the trademark, branding and Licensing business, and FHI was within thier right.

I think LegacyGT.com is far enough from any "real" trademark infringment.

Subi knows that if they want to shut this site down, all they have to do is file a trademark infringment case - since Tide dosen't have the money to fight it.

Still, if SOA is reading this site, then they know that it has sold a lot of cars for them.

Knowing that there is a high quality community that come with the car, really was a big motivator for me to buy this car.

My other car choices didn't have a high quality community, which made the car less attractive.

I would rather choose the known problems, over the unknown.

Sites like this, let me know before buying - what I was buying.

That made me want the Subi even more.

[IwannaSportSedan]

Amen,

I figure I am going to be more of an expert on the LGT when I finally get the ducks in a row to buy one, than pretty much anyone employed at the dealership.

And plus I really like knowing what I am getting myself into when I buy something for tens of thousands of dollars. Aside from making sure the ducks are in a row before promising to pay that kind of cash.

And having good folks like the members here to discuss these sorts of things with is priceless :D [/sappy]

[Tide]

I'm not "cyber-squatting" on legacysti.com, it was actually the first URL for the forums and was used for many months. We then had a poll to choose a better name.

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1064

And people voted on LegacyGT.com. I'm not concerned too much that another Subbie site was sent a letter. If/when I get a letter then I will give the letter its due recognition. I will most likely also consult a laywer at that point to be sure both parties legal rights are upheld.

Until then... "simma dann nah"

:munch:

[Ridgeracer]

Tide....Mother Subie is well aware of this site as it was pointed out to myself today by there customer rep. If they had a problem with this site, you would have gotten a letter already.

[melayout]

Ditto, my district rep is aware of the site and has commented in similar words that it is much more mature than nastycocks.

[Jon [in CT]]

Ditto, my district rep is aware of the site and has commented in similar words that it is much more mature than nastycocks.Obviously. :icon_roll

[melayout]

Hehe, come on.

[dark_rex]

they need to prove he profited from the use of the word before they have any real standing.

it's a legal scare tactic. i'm sure after their expensive, lengthy subpoenas on some puny website hoster, they'll call off the dogs when they have nothing to stand on.

[jsalicru]

they need to prove he profited from the use of the word before they have any real standing.

it's a legal scare tactic. i'm sure after their expensive, lengthy subpoenas on some puny website hoster, they'll call off the dogs when they have nothing to stand on.


Umm.. sure, SOA has much deeper pockets than "some puny website hoster"

Put yourself on the hoster's shoes..

[raz-0]

Sometimes I find this stuff stupid, sometimes funny, but most often baffling.

Yes, WE may not be jerks causing SoA fiscal harm or diluting their mark. However, if they allow US to dilute their mark, then the jerk who IS trying to rip them off can get away with it. However, rather than a crappy form letter filled out like some legal madlib, SoA might actually ask their lawyers to work for a living, nudge productive fansite owners to ask for permission, and simplify the act of jumping through a few minor hoops that would make it all legit. Heck, some pre-packaged galleries of new models, a small track day event for a handful of web-site owners/reps, and they'd have EXTREMELY strong grass roots promotion and a feeling of community.

They already spend an assload trying to do a half-assed version of what jeep and harley-davidson do to breed this kind of fandom. If they jsut spent their time and money wisely, they'd be a lot closer than they are.

Yeah, the cease and decist is not an unreasonable act, it just strikes me as somewhat counterproductive as a generic strategy.

[biturbowagon]

Actually, it goes farther than that. By law, Subaru must aggressively protect its brands and trademarks, or lose them. They can't just let something slide, such as the website in question.



+1

Subaru and FHI has every right to protect their brands and trademarks. The laws exist for a reason and we should respect them.

If you don't like them...run for the House of Representatives, the Senate or the President and get them changed.

[Edvig]

raz-0 and biturbowagon are exactly correct. All SOA is trying to do is protect their brand and it's their lawful right to do so.

The owner of ravensblade-impreza is a great guy and has been extremely helpful to me in the past, I wish him the best of luck in resolving this with SOA.

[keith05legacyGT]

VOA did a similar thing about 5 years ago. Basically they came down on all the companies that had "VW", "Volkswagon","VW Bug", etc. in any of their advertising. They said they didn't want people buying parts from these places thinking they were genuine VW parts (when was the last time you could by a part for a 69 Bug Convert from VOA---palease). They also said they wanted to be able to ensure quality (that was pretty funny coming from VW nowadays). Legally, it was their right to do it. In reality what happened is for a long time it was difficult for people to get parts for air-cooled VW's while everyone changed their names/ads. A lot of smaller specialty parts vendors went under and most VW magazines got a lot thinner.

The air-cooled community was up in arms, VW got a LOT of bad PR, but everyone felt VW didn't care because they did not get any revenue from that group anyways. VW tried to explain the whole copyright thing repeatedly online and in numerous magazines, but by then a bunch of folks were already out for blood. Eventually, life went on and I can still get bug parts.

Their action affected many more people than anything SOA is doing now. If you think about it, VW would of never had any issues if they would of acted sooner. By coming out and clearly stating their stance now, SOA can actually prevent the customer relation problems VOA and their user community had.

Just another way to look at it.

[Tide]

I've already registered another forum name, fyi. Not sure if/when I will use it but its nice to have in my back pocket.

[Jon [in CT]]

I've already registered another forum name, fyi. Not sure if/when I will use it but its nice to have in my back pocket.So what'd ya pick? One of the ones mentioned here earlier?

Another possibility for you, Tide, is to approach SOA directly as the owner of this site and ask for guidance and, perhaps, permission to use a trademark, for this site's name. Explain that you want to do right thing by them. Porsche (most hardnosed of all) allows some online clubs to use the word Porsche in their name (but maybe not in the domain name).

[johnny_m]

Jon has a good idea in approaching SOA before they come knocking. It might be as simple as a disclaimer (not affiliated with SOA type of thing) at the bottom of the main page. Afterall, it isn't like they don't know we exist.

While "Legacy" and "GT" may be hard for SOA to persue their case in court, the grouping of the words together could be a case. In the 80's and early 90's, Intel faced something similar. They wanted to trademark 386, 486 (and 586). The courts told them they couldn't. What did they do? Come up with a unique name that they could trademark. That is why the 586 became the Pentium and why Intel has then since done Celeron, Xeon, EM64T and so on. Drug companies face it every day. Drug compounds cannot be trademarked by their chemical names but the marketeers certainly come up with catchy names that can be trademarked. Believe it or not, companies have people whose job it is to surf the web and see who is using their tradmarked names. (I'm sure if Tide checked his weblogs, he'd find that folks from Intel have visited this post) http://www.legacygt.com/forums/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

[Tide]

It is absolutely not a good idea for me to contact SoA. Thats the fastest way for me to get a cease and desist because they would have to acknowledge my existance.

[iyamdman]

It is absolutely not a good idea for me to contact SoA. Thats the fastest way for me to get a cease and desist because they would have to acknowledge my existance.

+1

Contact in this situation would not be so good, better to prepare for if they do come a knocking.

As you can tell, the folks at SOA are not Business or Marketing Brain Surgeons.

It is easier for them to try to beat a problem to death, than to figure out how to turn it into an asset.

The quicker this quiets down, the better.

If we are a good little forum, helping the community, not selling much stuff - we should be OK.

[STG]

At the risk of repeating other comments...

Subaru has to protect their trademarks or lose them.

Bingo! Ask Carroll Shelby about not protecting trademarks and losing a lawsuit against Cobra replica maker Factory Five.

[andrew.anderson]

This is a little silly os SOA. I suppose if I was a business I would do the same thing though.


Ignore then and they will go away. I promise it will work. That is what I do with my problems. :icon_bigg

[red beast]

www.loagt.com doesn't exist when search for

[*Jedimaster*]

I'm tellin' ya- if I can ignore George Lucas with my site, you can ignore SOA with yours. George lays the flannel smackdown most of the time, but not with me :cool:

[rporter]

'] Porsche (most hardnosed of all) allows some online clubs to use the word Porsche in their name (but maybe not in the domain name).

Actually, not. They obviously have allowed the PCA to continue, with the name (they are largely a shill for the company, anyway), but they have cracked down on the use of any of their trademarked names (Porsche, 911, etc) for clubs, companies, or domai names.

We went through these discussions a few years back when a number of Porsche folks were getting "the letter" (as well as the forum that we were on), and I don't even believe that they were getting the option to license the name.

SOA must follow what other similar companies must do to protect their intellectual property.

[ddub]

I'm surprised this hasn't come up before. The whole reason SOA is going after ravensblade-impreza is not because of the name (although that is the legal hook they are using), but rather because the same guy also owns deniedmywarranty.org . It seems that SOA was not too keen about a web site devoted to how subaru is handling warranty claims. They found out about the link and immediately starting causing problems for his other sites.

All of the gory details are on nasioc as I remember reading them there. Either way, I would say that Tide has it covered with the backup domain name. Just look at all of the domains that nasioc has been: nasioc, iclub, and about 3 before that (I think impreza-rs was one).

how about wwsloc.com (world wide subaru legacy owner's club) or just sloc :icon_bigg

[rporter]

how about wwsloc.com (world wide subaru legacy owner's club) or just sloc :icon_bigg

Since we call them LGTs, IMHO something using that acronym would sound better than LOC or SLOC!!

[dougc]

If anyone from SOA browsed through this site, they would see that it helps their current customers as well as encourages potential buyers. I stumbled upon this site after I purchased my Legacy. If I had found this site before hand, I just may have spent the extra money and bought the GT. I opted for the amenities rather than the larger engine. It just may have been the other way around. Anyhoo, this site has helped me alot. Besides what SOA and Wappingers Falls Subaru just recently did for me was posted on this forum. Anyone questioning SOA's loyalty to their products/customers would see that they stand behind both. I can tell ya right now, I will buy another Subaru.

[rporter]

If anyone from SOA browsed through this site, they would see that it helps their current customers as well as encourages potential buyers. I stumbled upon this site after I purchased my Legacy. If I had found this site before hand, I just may have spent the extra money and bought the GT. I opted for the amenities rather than the larger engine. It just may have been the other way around. Anyhoo, this site has helped me alot. Besides what SOA and Wappingers Falls Subaru just recently did for me was posted on this forum. Anyone questioning SOA's loyalty to their products/customers would see that they stand behind both. I can tell ya right now, I will buy another Subaru.

From a legal and servicemark/trademark protection standpoint, it doesn't matter about the positive threads. There is also a fair amount of negative information posted about the car, also.

This has been the issue with every mfr who has cracked down on servicemark/trademark infringement. In fact, on the Porsche list I was on, the discussion was primarily about older 911s, there weren't more than a couple of folks with brand-new ones (but they also had old ones). Didn't matter, the servicemark/trademark protection has to be a black/white thing.

[ddub]

Since we call them LGTs, IMHO something using that acronym would sound better than LOC or SLOC!!

It was meant as a joke, sorry that didn't come across. I figured SLOC is about as appropriate as nasioc (aka nabisco, etc.) which is so difficult to pronounce, that everyone does it differently.

I am all for the legacygt.com site name.

Seems to me that as long as Tide doesn't create a web site like SOAalsodeniedmywarranty.com, he might be ok. At least for a while...

[kevin@kingofimports.com]

Ah, he was selling stuff that's why.

And this site isn't?

http://boxeraddict.com/

It is now a reality on the Internet. As soon as enthusiasts are attracted to a forum and make a particular companies car popular, that company will come after you.:icon_frow

[kevin@kingofimports.com]

One more thing to add to this discussion and this was tossed around on www.iwsti.com as well.

The threat of litigation alone will send many running. Others will try to fight it and either lose or just plain run out of money. How do you fight a company the size of Subaru of Japan or FHI, the true owners of the trademark rights? This area of law is still developing. In the meantime, companies must aggressively enforce their trademarks to retain them. Subaru is doing just that.


I realize the above post I made was very general particularly because I was dissappointed to see subaru shut down another enthusiast site. What I meant to say was that as soon as a forum is created using a company's trademark, and the forum becomes popular and a possible 'source of confusion' in the legal sense, then a company will most likely try to stop the use. Source of confusion in the law can and does have a slightly different meaning from that in common use. This is not generally understood by those that have not had a lot of experience reading and interpreting the law.

Unfortunately, for enthusiasts like us, we feel that companies like Subaru that attempt to shut down our favorite forums are ungrateful for all the positive things that flow from these sites. Alot of times, we spend a great deal of time here, going to events, and promoting their vehicles. It is a shock they want to take that away from their fan base since they do so at the cost of loosing such funs.

The reality is that companies like this need to do so, however much it hurts for me to type this. Why? They need to do this so that when they pursue the real trademark infringers, they will be able to maintain in court that they vigorously defended the trademarks granted them. Failure to protect one's trademarks can result in the loss of trademark protection. Therefore, Subaru has no desire to hamper the enthusiast spirt of forums like legacygt.com or iwsti.com, but they are required to do so under the law if they are to receive the full protection of the law should a serious trademark infringer come along.

[STG]

If a company doesn't aggressively pursue those who use its trademarks, it will lose them.

Just ask Carroll Shelby. For years he was quoted as saying he didn't care if people made copies of his old Cobra. Trhen one day after prices for original Shelbys went through the roof, he decided to sue Factory Five Racing (biggest replica manufacturer.)

About all Shelby got from the courts was an order for FFR not to use Cobra or Shelby items on their cars and not to refer to them as Cobras.

Use it, defend it,or lose it.

Hey. I just came up with a great name for my business: King of Imports......

[Drakuun]

Personally, I support Subaru doing this.
I think someone said maybe in this very thread.
"Subaru, strong product, weak brand" and it's true.

IMHO SoA at current is to hung up on reffering to their offerings by their trim level alone.. OB, Sti, WRX etc etc.. we all know what those mean, and we all use them liberaly, but to a laymen they'd have no clue or simply associate the model as the brand when it's not.

For instance.. I was (and am) an Impreza fan. I had finally had enough reading about them in magazines so away I went to the Suby dealer to look at one. I already was familiar with the OB, who couldn't be, but honest to all things subaru- the "Legacy" as a model never once clicked with me untill I saw them sitting on the lot.. I knew I didn't want an OB, but the Impreza wasn't big enough.. I was beside myself when I honestly realise that I could get the OB's size and not have ot get an OB.

Now I feel sorta sheepish admiting all that, but it sorta goes to prove the point of why Subaru needs to take control of their brand. Because your average person who isn't a suby fan probably won't ever know the difference, and even though I had researched Subaru Imprezas, again, the fact that a Legacy was the base for the OB never really was apparent simply because Suby doesn't really even denote them that way themselves.
Even their website has Legacy's and OB's separate instead of Legacy's proper, and then having the Trim option of Outback. Impreza Outbacks, WRX and STi don't have separate sections on the Suby site for them, they are trim level options on the Impreza.. I just looked at their site and sure enough, if you look at the "Model" selection popup Legacy and Outback are listed as two different models. But Impreza has only one entry.

Brand confusion right there.

Anywho- thats my ranting. :)

[speeding_gaijin]

Solution: Register the site at a country where these claims wounldn't mean anything and could be ignored.