Newbie Tuner needs advice

[sga86_LGT]

I just started tuning my LGT. I dont know shit.. umm.. I have a manual boost controller, running at 16 psi. Custom made intake piping w/ airfilter. BOV custom fitted to the TMIC. Thats about it, others, i got a turbo timer, and autometer boost guage. I'm currently planning on putting a pair of megan racing turbo back exhaust w/ 3" inlet and its going to be a custom mandral bent straight pipe. I'm planning on keep the last 2 cats and make a custom 3" downpipe which removes that cat. So, any advice on anything i did wrong so far, or any precaution i should know like warranty, smog, or damage to the engine. i just need some info about what i should know for the things ive done so far and also the exhaust mod im about to do. Thx ... and i ran 9 second flat on 1/8th after those mods.

[TSi+WRX]

Log, NOW....if you haven't already, of course - especially seeing as you've already made a pass on your vehicle.

I'm wondering what the intake is doing to your AFRs, especially as I see you don't have an EGT nor widdeband O2 listed. I'm wondering what the MBC, in combination with your home-made intake, is doing.....

The reason I urge this is because at least one member here reported significant EGT increases as well as significant AFR leaning with use of a well-known aftermarket "Short Ram" intake plus Cobb AccessPort Stage I EM.

Your powertrain warranty is already be out-the-window.

As for emissions compliance, you're already violating federal laws if you've removed/replaced the UP (which I assume you've done, but just did not list, as you said that you "plan on keeping the last two cats - which itself doesn't make sense if you're going with a full TBE..... :confused: ) - but whether or not she'll pass emissions testing, I honestly can only guess that at this particular point-in-time, you'll still likely pass a sniffer test (unknown about CA, though, but pretty sure that you'd be OK in any other state) - but will likely fail a visual if the technician knows what to look for. After you replace the last remaining cats, though, without EM, I would imagine that you'd fail a sniffer, too.

[Han'sGT]

ahhh. if you don't know shit. stop tuning your car.

just search all the forums and see what people are doing.....people that know shit. :D

[TSi+WRX]

^ That's why I leave my tuning to the pros. :) Or at the very least, other hobbyists who know the car a *lot* better than I do! :D

[sga86_LGT]

hmm.. ic.. well.. my exhaust system is still stock. up/dp still stock. im planning on installing dp and 3" straight pipe. i want to keep the last 2 cats because i dont want it to be loud. or create back fire or something. and after that, i will get the A/F and EGT guage to see if anything is wrong, then emanage ultimate and take the car to a shop.

[wukindada]

Take out the cats...leave the resonator;) If you are doing the DP you might as well replace the UP while you are in the same area.

[meier motor sports]

the last 2 cats are in the down pipe.
" I'm planning on keep the last 2 cats and make a custom 3" downpipe which removes that cat."

seriously stop modding and start reading

[BDII]

16 PSI on stock managment? Better get an air/fuel gauge.
or at least a tune.

[TSi+WRX]

the last 2 cats are in the down pipe.
" I'm planning on keep the last 2 cats and make a custom 3" downpipe which removes that cat."

seriously stop modding and start reading
*emphasis added....

+1 Agreed.

---

Also, if you're not logging to begin with, with your proposed mod list, you'll want to at least have an EGT and wideband O2, *FIRST* before you start popping those parts on.

You have to be sure you can keep an eye on things, first, before you start doing stuff.

Honestly, looking at what you've written and how you've written it, sga86, I'd recommend that you look to a professional tuner for your needs, or at least another hobbyist-tuner who has more of an idea how to go about things......

[sga86_LGT]

im reading.. dammit.. so uhh.. how does access port work exactly?? if i use that, will i need to remove my mbc??

and so now, how should i do my exhaust? and what about the custom intake i have? and will my custom bov mess anything up? ...and my turbo timer causes my check engine light to come on and flashing green cruse light.

[rony]

im reading.. dammit.. so uhh.. how does access port work exactly?? if i use that, will i need to remove my mbc??

No, you will not need the MBC with the AP. And unless you are logging and watching the car really close, you shouldn't be using the MBC right now. :)

You really don't need a turbo timer on this car. The turbo is water and oil cooled.

[rony]

From what I have read, the stock BOV is good for a while. Plus, it's a recirculating BOV, with means it blows back into the intake, and I assume the one you have isn't. I have read people having issue with non-recirculating BOV, but apparently 50% is ok.

Unless you have a custom tune, a custom intake will not get you much, btw, this is highly debated in these forums. But the general feeling is the stock is good for a while and you will need a custom tune to use an after market intake to it's full advantage.


Exhaust, is totally up to you. :)

[meier motor sports]

by me telling u to read more i mean. go through the forums. search accesport, manual bost controler, cats, downpipes, up pipes, blow off valves. there are a ton of threads about each and every item on your car. with a little more research u can easily find the info you need. i am not going to tell u a mbc is bad for you, or your custom intake is gona kill a cat in tiwan. i personaly dont know these things for sure. but by reading the forums u will start to see a patern of ppl who do know what they are doing coming up with information that can save your ass from an expensive repair bill in the future

[TSi+WRX]

im reading.. dammit.. so uhh..

OK, I've been on here long enough for nearly everyone to know that I'm almost always nice....

But that's just bull - if you're actually reading and doing your homework, your next question, below:

how does access port work exactly?? if i use that, will i need to remove my mbc??

You'd at the VERY LEAST know the answer to that question.

---

I honestly don't know to be :mad: or :(


and so now, how should i do my exhaust? and what about the custom intake i have? and will my custom bov mess anything up? ...and my turbo timer causes my check engine light to come on and flashing green cruse light.

Like meier motor sports said, you need to:

by me telling u to read more i mean. go through the forums. search accesport, manual bost controler, cats, downpipes, up pipes, blow off valves. there are a ton of threads about each and every item on your car. with a little more research u can easily find the info you need. i am not going to tell u a mbc is bad for you, or your custom intake is gona kill a cat in tiwan. i personaly dont know these things for sure. but by reading the forums u will start to see a patern of ppl who do know what they are doing coming up with information that can save your ass from an expensive repair bill in the future

You're asking really, really, really basic questions, sga86 - ones that have been answered more than just a few times here in the Forums.

Your current "plan" has you leaping ahead in two steps, whereas you should simply be taking one.

I'm -pleading- that you simply take a day, STOP posting, and instead search/read fully about your planned mods and associated products. This way, you'll get a much, much better understanding of where you're going, what could possibly go wrong, and what type of gains you can expect.

:)

Please do yourself the favor of becoming an educated LGTer before you start....it'll save you a lot of headaches down the line, and probably a good chunk of change as well.

:)

Best of luck! :)

[sga86_LGT]

ok.. umm.. i plugged the hole for the bov so the car doesnt shut off.. so thats why my boost is solid now.. and ill get the access port and remove the MBC and also i think i should remove the turbo timer.. thx guys. the access port tunes the boost right?? and does it make it solid?? cuz before i installed the MBC, the boost is very inconsistant. So yeah.. thats why i got mbc, and it also bypass the vaccume so the fuel doesnt get cut. If i get the access port, what other upgrades can i do?? and how do i tune it?? (im gonna move my exhaust mod back). plz.. yall geniuses.. help a newbie out.

thats about 3-4 questions there.. =)

[PhilT]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Maybe it's just a wind up ?

[sga86_LGT]

..oh and also.. how do u tune the intake with access port?? does it self-tune?

[mattg]

get rid of everything you have now
get a catless up pipe
get a catted downpipe
get an accessport & flash to stage 2
????
profit

[sga86_LGT]

...can i keep my intake and bov and and boost gauage and turbo timer?

[mattg]

yeah. as long as everything is running fine w/ the intake and BOV.

[Enlight]

I would recommend you search these forums for info on intakes, BOV's etc... and make the decision for yourself. Everyone's telling you what they would do for themselves, but it's your car not theirs.

Here's a brief explanation for why those are bad mods from what I've learned from this forum.

Manual Boost Controller: Play around with MBC's and engine gas temperature can rise to dangerous levels.

Turbo timer: Our turbos are water and oil cooled. The liquids work in a sort of passive convection process that still work after the engine is turned off, so no need for a MBC.

Intake: cold air intakes, people have mixed results, most people don't like them without tuning. It causes air fuel ratio to lean out, which can cause detonation. It may also cause more turbulance in the intake flow, throwing the mass air flow sensor off.

BOV: People also get mixed results with these, but basically if you get a BOV, a 50%atmospheric 50% recirculating is a good compromise. Because the BOV is placed after the MAF, the MAF will have already accounted for the air that is now vented to the atmosphere which causes a temporary rich condition. A rich condition doesn't hurt your engine like a lean condition (detonation) but it will affect the drivability slightly. 50/50 BOV's just half of the air into the atmosphere, while recirculating the other half.

[sga86_LGT]

okay.. im getting paid tmw, so ill order AP tmw.. so.. any more advices? i like advices..:)

[sga86_LGT]

.

Turbo timer: Our turbos are water and oil cooled. The liquids work in a sort of passive convection process that still work after the engine is turned off, so no need for a MBC

then why does most turbo cars have turbo timer?? i know that eclipse turbo is watercooled.. why is it still better to have turbo timer?

[meier motor sports]

...can i keep my intake and bov and and boost gauage and turbo timer?

"and bov and and boost gauage and turbo timer?" these are the least of your problems. and in a rpevious post u said u are going to block the hole for the bov and the car doesnt shut off. im not sure what that means put i would probably not do that

[meier motor sports]

then why does most turbo cars have turbo timer?? i know that eclipse turbo is watercooled.. why is it still better to have turbo timer?

a turbo timer is not required. as long as u dont drive the car hard imediatly before turning the car off there is no NEED for a turbo timer. but installing one will not hurt anything

[TSi+WRX]

ok.. umm.. i plugged the hole for the bov so the car doesnt shut off.. so thats why my boost is solid now.. and ill get the access port and remove the MBC and also i think i should remove the turbo timer.. thx guys. the access port tunes the boost right?? and does it make it solid?? cuz before i installed the MBC, the boost is very inconsistant. So yeah.. thats why i got mbc, and it also bypass the vaccume so the fuel doesnt get cut. If i get the access port, what other upgrades can i do?? and how do i tune it?? (im gonna move my exhaust mod back). plz.. yall geniuses.. help a newbie out.

thats about 3-4 questions there.. =)

Again, you need to simply slow down. :( :mad:

Just because you're getting paid today doesn't mean you should blow your paycheck today.

What you need to do is to spend a day on these Forums, -NOT- ask questions, but just use the search function to seek out your answers, ACTUALLY read, and learn.

We're not super-smart people, we just have spent the time and done our homework.....

After you get the AccessPort, READ its instructions. Actually, head over to the Cobb Tuning website RIGHT NOW and start READING. They have full product documentation over there for the AccessPort, specific to the LGT, as well as a general FAQ on-site which will answer most of your initial questions.

Basically, with the AccessPort, you do no "tuning" whatsoever.

You purchase and install the parts needed/required for it to function properly (you find out which of these are needed VIA READING THE PRINTED/ON-LINE INSTRUCTIONS), and then you simply download a pre-made, "off-the-shelf" map, and re-flash your ECU via the AccessPort.

You're not doing any actual tuning.

With the Cobb Tuning AccessPort Stage I map, you're required to essentially have an all-stock vehicle.

With the Cobb Tuning AccessPort Stage II map, you 're required to have a stock intake tract (as a matter of fact, Cobb Tuning specifically warns against using any aftermarket intakes with their AccessPort off-the-shelf maps), as well as at least an aftermarket "shorty" downpipe, if not full-length downpipe - with full-gains only to be realized with a full turboback exhaust.

Although there are members here who do use aftermarket intakes with their "off-the-shelf" AccessPort maps and have not, so far, reported any problems, I would seriously be hesitant to go this route as (1) they have not posted any logs to verify that they are still operating within acceptable safety parameters and (2) PhilT has posted that, when logged, he saw what is regarded, by consensus, as excessively lean AFRs as well as excessively high EGTs with the combination of an aftermarket intake plus "off the shelf" AP Stage I mapping.

If you wish to modify your intake tract, custom tuning via a tuner who has a StreetTuner license or ProTuner license should be highly considered.

(And BTW, I would highly recommend that you actually hire someone who knows what they're doing, if you were to pursue StreetTuner licensing - if you're slapping on parts like you're now, you certainly have no earthly right messing about with what parameters you could access in your ECU via StreetTuner, you're not ready. I'm not saying that I'm any good at tuning - I know I'm not, and that's why Al from DynoFlash is my tuner - but you certainly have demonstrated your lack of knowledge as well as impatience here, and neither of those traits are suitable for a true tuner.)


You seriously need to stop just getting parts, and thinking that you're making your car better/faster......


You never WERE actually "tuning" your vehicle.

You were simply slapping on parts, and basically blind-luck has gotten you to the point where your performance was OK, and you didn't hurt your vehicle's powertrain.

STOP NOW.

Actually read and understand what you're doing before you go any further on modding your vehicle.

----

specific answers:

- Yes, the AP provides boost control. A MBC or EMBC would be redundant.

- The turbo-timer is not "needed," as many here have pointed out, due to the unique way in which our turbo is cooled post ignition-key removal. However, if you tend to hammer away on-boost up until the very point where you pull-over and shut off the car, or if you're the impatient type and cannot be bothered to sit in your vehicle for a minute or so for it to cool down after a hard run, it can be an added safety-factor.

Usually, I'll either take it easy for the last minute or so of my commute, or, otherwise, just sit in the car and enjoy a song on the radio.

[jarrod]

Spend your money on something worthy and just get the turboxs UTEC. It's worth the couple hundred more.

[PhilT]

Call me cynical, but look under the bridge..................there's a Troll !

Trip Trap, Trip Trap

[GTsleeper]

Bolt-on stuff is good BUT sga86- u are going the wrong way! Not to be a ass but u need not spend money on a AP. Spend it on some... reading glasses, personal tuner consoltant to advize how well the price of scrap alumium is doing. Do u want to learn about ur car & make it better or just go as fast as u can in it? I am a ass, & not so nice all the time, like Allen is. Ur basic,crap,basic questions even pissed him off. So that says something right there. We are all here to help each other, but u need to start by helping ur self first & READ.

U really need to take everything on the car back to O.E., READ on this site & other Subaru sites - take advantage of other peoples f-ups/ops- that was a bad idea. Then pick a "path of performance". Our car like diesels, & other turboed cars are more about tune than bolt-ons.
U have more posts then I do. So im guessing u have been on this site longer or instead of sitting back reading, u babble mindlessly as if u know what ur talking about- but hoping someone will give u the answer(s). Well get these questions urself! WE told u where to look. At least the basic stuff. Knowledge is power! Didnt anyone teach u that when u where younger. Our "group" so to speak cares about our car. Its like anything- u see someone abuse it and treat it badly ur going to get a ear full about it!!
NO one person is perfect/knows everything. There is no stupid question but some- u need to ask urself & find urself!!
Sorry for the RANT! I do feel better now:)

[John M]

The MBC itself isn't inherently bad. It's when it's paired with an aftermarket intake and an arbitrary boost setting that it could be trouble. Once you start messing with that many variables you've got to be able to log, and understand what it's telling you, before you go any further.

[TSi+WRX]

+1 to the last three posts - and as always, brother John M managed to say in two sentences what I wouldn't be able to say in two paragraphs :) , i.e.: MBC is just fine, as long as you know what you're doing. :)

[franklin]

get rid of everything you have now
get a catless up pipe
get a catted downpipe
get an accessport & flash to stage 2
????
profit
Can you stop for a minute and read the above. "I dont know shit...." but your throwing all kinds of "shit" on your car w/o reading or listening??????:lol::lol:

[TSi+WRX]

+1 yet again.

[GTsleeper]

LOL- "u didnt see shit because u were doing shit"

[Xenonk]

ahhh. if you don't know shit. stop tuning your car.

just search all the forums and see what people are doing.....people that know shit. :D


+eleventybillion...

or you can just wait until you blow up your motor/car and start over and DO IT RIGHT the next time around.

[Xenonk]

LOL- "u didnt see shit because u were doing shit"

Chris Rock!!!



Seriously, there is a chance that you are leaning out the motor (because I am not sure what the driving temperatures and conditions of where you live). And it makes it worse if you are just pumping in 91 and not 93 while doing it.. after time, your motor/spark plugs will show lean-conditions wear and it's gonna suck. Currently, the car will do it's best to take out as much timing as possible to prevent you from blowing up your motor.. and it's even more possible that you are not making all that much power because the ECU is holding the whole car back from making power just so that you have a motor to drive with.

Take all that stuff off and start off the right foot with modding by EDUCATING yourself first before it becomes a costly mistake.

[sga86_LGT]

ok to the people that say we dont need a turbo timer due to the fact that our turbos are water and oil cooled tell me what cars are not? and in that case why does anyone need a turbo timer?:dm:fools

[rallispec]

ok to the people that say we dont need a turbo timer due to the fact that our turbos are water and oil cooled tell me what cars are not? and in that case why does anyone need a turbo timer?:dm:fools

dude, if you want a turbo timer -- then go get one. We literally couldn't care less what you do. We're just trying to help you out and save you some time and money.


If you want to ignore the 99% of the people here are don't have a turbo timer, and have never had a single problem with their turbo... then by all means do that.

[jarrod]

someone needs to just kill this thread....no hope

[TSi+WRX]

ok to the people that say we dont need a turbo timer due to the fact that our turbos are water and oil cooled tell me what cars are not? and in that case why does anyone need a turbo timer?:dm:fools

Go read - you'll then understand why.

I'm done with trying to advise this guy. :(

[PhilT]

I think he has achieved his objective.

[sga86_LGT]

i have a turbo timer, and i never said anything will happen to ur engine if u dont have one, but it protects ur turbo to have a turbo timer. You can either get one, or wait 2-3mins before u shut off ur engine everytime you go somewhere.. personally, i dont want to wait 2-3mins every time i get somewhere... yall who think u dont need a turbo timer, you guys are just stupid. but if ur bone stock and u dont care about all these performance shit, or ur just some rich foo who will buy just another car if urs break down, then i have no more to say. dumbasses

[GTsleeper]

BOLD statement! Just read already:mad: !!

[TSi+WRX]

:lol:

Someone ban this guy already, please! :lol:

Either that, or go back to nabisco, and get your flame-suit on while you're at it. :lol: :lol:

[PGT]

It's the same dude from the 'plastic intake manifold' thread from earlier this summer. :rolleyes: blahblah123

Closing this for now and we'll deal with his 'new' account ;)

[Xenonk]

i have a turbo timer, and i never said anything will happen to ur engine if u dont have one, but it protects ur turbo to have a turbo timer. You can either get one, or wait 2-3mins before u shut off ur engine everytime you go somewhere.. personally, i dont want to wait 2-3mins every time i get somewhere... yall who think u dont need a turbo timer, you guys are just stupid. but if ur bone stock and u dont care about all these performance shit, or ur just some rich foo who will buy just another car if urs break down, then i have no more to say. dumbasses


Uh, you DO know your car has a built-in oil cooler right? And you do know the difference between an older generation turbo car vs. today's better designed turbo cars?

Listen, we are all here to help you understand and make you into a veteran of turbo modding if you get over the n00b stages first.. a GOOD n00b will listen and ask for info.. a bad n00b is the one that forms their own opinions without doing all the research into it. Know your scope of information that you are looking for.

I am a guy that probably drives just as hard or harder than 85% of the people on this board.. I don't need a turbo timer.. properly cooling even BEFORE you pull into a parking spot will prevent you of needing a turbo timer.. I have had a WRX prior with over 65,000+ miles of HARD driving (of which I have over 250 miles of autoxing and over 1200 miles of road track) and I have never gotten my turbo timer past 2 mins of cool down time, even with power mods and running the stock turbo to 17psi, the car was perfectly fine (and it was still on the stock clutch to add to that).

Most people on this board (as well as others) know that I am not a guy to just blow up on people. There are a few occasions that I do, and that is because people jump to conclusions and do not listen to the whole story of what I have to say.

You can have a turbo timer if you want. I bet you dont even properly warm-up your car if you are looking for a "cool-down" turbo timer.. ever thought about properly warming up the car? Warming up is just as important as cooling down. It takes at least 3 mins for the car to properly warm up... so if you can't wait for 3 mins on cool-down, why should I believe that you properly warm-up a car and wait for 3 mins before pulling out of a parking spot? Please don't call people dumbasses, because you are a person, and you could be one of them as well, dumbass. (Just telling you the truth as-is)..

[back to nice mode]

----thread closed----