TurboXS knock light, review and detailed discussion

[PDXTuning]

One of PDXTuning's main goals is to post information that is beneficial to the community. In a passing conversation last year we spoke with TurboXS about some products that would benefit the community, a knock light is one of the ones we discussed. Recently as part of their DTEC fuel computer they released a knock light. PDXTuning immediately asked for the KnockLite as a stand alone product so we can help people in the community with other forms of EM understand the state of their tune.



The two most common forms of engine management for the Subaru's right now are reflashes and piggybacks. I will hold this discussion to the UTEC and to reflashes. Since PDXTuning tunes AP Protuner, EcuTek, and UTECs commonly it is easy for us to give detailed information about how they all work. Since the AP and EcuTek both rely on the stock ECU to run the car this discussion will treat them as equals.


http://www.turboxs.com/uploaded_images/342.jpg



What is a TurboXS KnockLite?



The TurboXS KnockLite is a simple stand alone unit that can be added to any electronic ignition car to monitor for detonation, and indicate a given RPM to shift. Since it has built in tach drivers it works on cars like the Legacy GT that do not have a engine speed signal to tap.





Discussion:

One of the most important aspects of a tune is the safety margin. If you push a setup to the point of regular detonation it will eventually fail. Detonation results in spikes of cylinder pressure that will either mechanically fail some engine component, or cause the motor to absorb additional heat that will melt the piston top. Keeping detonation at bay is absolutely essential, and ultimately it limits the amount of power a car will make on pump gas. This limitation is the reason why race fuel makes more power than pump gas. Race fuel has a greater resistance to detonation, which allows the tuner to achieve the optimum timing, fuel, and boost combination for your particular car's setup.

One benefit the UTEC has over reflashes is it notifies the operator when detonation is detected. Unfortunately the UTEC does not have a learning system like the reflash to deal with detonation. The UTEC relies on the tuner to set up the map so that it does not regularly detonate. It does react to detonation by pulling timing, just like a reflash, but it currently does not have the ability to adapt to a problem spot. In order to make up for this the UTEC notifies the operator by flashing the CEL after a detonation event is detected.

The stock ECU has a learning system in it, which over time adapts to the octane limitations of your car and fuel. While many people prefer the learning ability of the stock ECU, they are relying solely on the hardware to detect and adapt. While this is normally adequate, there are motors out there that fail due to detonation with reflashes so the system must not be perfect.

Each model ECU is different, so I will have to make some general statements next. The 02 WRX ECU was particularly bad about reacting to detonation at times. Subaru decided to stop listening for detonation after about 5700 rpm due to a limitation in the hardware. After the cutoff RPM the ECU would run the maximum allowed timing, without regard to occurrence of detonation. Provided the map was setup properly you could still tune safely. However in order to get the maximum out of the car on 93 octane you had to be absolutely sure that the car was never operated at it's maximum with lesser fuel in it. While it is easy to say you will never put in 89 or 87 octane fuel, there is nothing you can do about a gas station having old or otherwise bad fuel in their 93 tanks.

Subaru figured out the design flaw in that system and improved the system in future cars. Now the hardware is better so it is able to listen to higher RPMs, and after the point they choose to stop listening they do not add max timing. This has to have improved motor longevity, and allows the tuner to tune your car to a higher power level more confidently.

The question still remains, how often is my car knocking? One common statement made by car owners is I never hear detonation so it must not happen. We have come across people who should know what detonation sounds like, but are not hearing it. Part of the problem is detonation becomes damaging before it becomes audible. This means you may never be able to hear it while it is taking it's toll on your motor.

If you get in a bone stock car and romp on it you may well hear detonation. The problem is there are so many variables that contribute to lowering the detonation threshold. For example if you sit at a light for 45 seconds and then take off in a spirited manner your intercooler is not as cool as it was when the car was on the dyno, getting custom tuned. In this situation the map your tuner made may no longer be appropriate. 20-30 seconds later when the intercooler cools off everything is back to normal, but what happened as you rowed through the gears?

Everyone always wants to put a boost gauge in their car. Others ask what are the three most important gauges to add to the car. Typically the response is some combination of boost, EGT, oil temp, and oil pressure. If you think about it a knock detection system is as important as any one of those, if not more. None of the systems in there will kill a motor as fast as detonation. In fact one of the main reasons why you want to know what you are boosting at is to determine if you may be detonating. If you are boosting beyond the capability of the fuel you will detonate, if you are boosting beyond the level tuned for you may be detonating.

What about fuel and timing? They have as great of an effect on causing detonation as boost does. Rarely do people add wide band O2 sensors, and even fewer people monitor the timing they are running at any given moment. This is where a knock indication system is so valuable. If you rely on the engine management to do it's job you do not have to know what AFR, timing, or boost you are running. What may be more important that the exact AFR, boost, or timing you are running is if you are detonating. The TurboXS KnockLite is an inexpensive tool to help you understand more of what is going on in your motor. It is easy and clean to install, and perhaps best of all it only cost $129 MSRP.

Yes, it also is a shift light, so anyone out there wanting the extra little coolness of knowing when to shift you have that built right in. I can say personally that the shift light helps me out a lot, since I seem to have the habit of driving down the freeway in third gear cause I can not hear my motor with the stock CBE installed.

Jarrad

[PDXTuning]

Now for the installation into my Legacy.

http://www.pdxtuning.com/images/TurboXS/knock_lite.jpg

http://www.pdxtuning.com/images/TurboXS/knock_lite2.jpg

Installation is very easy, there are only 4 wired to hook up: power, ground, tach, and knock signal. We just tapped the signals at the stock ECU to keep wire routing to a minimum. I will put up the pinout for anyone who wants to install this as soon as I have a chance to make it all pretty.

As I said above the electronics inside will convert a coilpack signal into a a tach signal, so on our cars all you do is pick up one of the 4 coil pack signals off the ECU and you are set.

If you want you can install a separate knock sensor, but most people will want to just use the factory one, since it is optimally placed on the motor.

Hope that helps,
Jarrad
971-221-7825
sales@pdxtuning.com

[Ridgeracer]

Nice writeup Jarrad. Nothing like some excessive knock to kill a good engine.

[TSi+WRX]

Jarrad,

I'd very much like one of these - especially at the low cost, it seems like a great thing to have, with the side-benefit being that I really also *need* that shift light, LOL. :lol:

I'd like a more detailed presentation of installation procedures, though - more along the lines of exactly where to tap the ECU output for both knock and tach. I've never done anything like this before, and seeing it before hand, how simple it is, as you say, would definitely sway my purchase decision, and I'd imagine it would also be that way for many others on this Forum, too.

Thanks,

-Allen

[John M]

So this light just shows activity on the knock sensor? That's better than nothing (similar to the SAFC's knock monitoring function) but it doesn't include the factory ECU's filtering logic that goes along with the raw sensor readings.

Not all noise picked up by the sensor is knock. That's why the 02 WRX quit listening at a certain RPM; they were unable to determine which was which after that point. Other cars behave the exact same way except they use more conservative timing maps in that area just to be safe.

DSMs have a product that talks to the ECU and displays a numerical knock value (the same one you'd see on a logger) on a 2-digit steering-column-mounted LED display.

[hallfleming]

i

[PDXTuning]

We will provide the full installation details with any purchase, and likely we will just post it up here. I just did not have the color code information written down from the installation this morning when I posted this up.

Since this uses the stock sensor the signal is already windowed to the frequency that corresponds to knock. There will of course be other background noise, but we will work on the settings with our Tuner Pro and headphones to determine what the best settings are. Without being setup properly this is not going to benifit anyone.

Jarrad

[scans007]

Sweet, I'd be on it just for the shift light man, I def want one specially since I change maps so often my shift point for max Hp's is always changing!......I datalog for all the other goodies =)

[PDXTuning]

You could turn down the sensitivity so that all you had was a shift light if you wanted.

We have these in stock and ready to ship.

Jarrad

[Leonardo]

Is there a separate box for adjustments? How do you adjust shift/knock settings?

[Jaxx]

few questions slightly off LGT topic

is there a provision of a separate knock sensor (IE not tapping the factory sensor)
What RPM does it become useless? or is it still providing useful info at 8k rpm?
could i use a tec 2 tach output for the rpm?
a word back to turbo-xs: some way to mount this in an existing pod (ie defi) would be very very cool external led or something

i have been looking for this for some time ... the tec will adjust for knock but not tell you when its happening

[PDXTuning]

Yes, you can run a totally separate knock sensor with this.
Provided your motor is quiet enough to hear knock over the background noise at 8K this will still provide useful information.
You can use just about any tach signal since this device has it's own built in tach driver.

Jarrad

[PDXTuning]

There is no separate box, you are looking at the whole thing. There is a button on the top that you tap or hold down to setup everything.

Jarrad

Is there a separate box for adjustments? How do you adjust shift/knock settings?

[driggity]

Looks like a pretty nice little unit. A lot better looking than a Knocklink, thats for sure. Might make a nice compliment to the Scanmaster 3 I have in my car right now.

[TSi+WRX]

Just purchased! :)

Oh, and hey, Jarrad, you said on the other post:


We are offering an introductory offer on these, $129 shipped to your door. We will include wiring instructions, and recommended setting levels.

Please don't forget the wiring instructions and the "recommended setting levels" for my LGT! :D

Thanks again!

-Allen

Chieh Allen Lee
Cleveland, Ohio

[highlander]

I too have been eyeing this since I saw it. Now if it was offered in a black housing vs. the shiny silver....... that would be sexy!

[TSi+WRX]

I'm painting mine. :)

[PDXTuning]

I do not recall making any such statements ;)

[TSi+WRX]

^ Damn, bro, you should run for public office, then! :lol:

[PDXTuning]

er, uh, I will have to check with my press secretary on that.....

[TSi+WRX]

^ One of your guys is coming out to Buschur's in Ohio on the 25th to meet up with my local enthusiast club, LERSOC, for two tune-days. :) Maybe I should swing by! You can introduce me to your "press secretary." :lol:

[sutter2k]

I currently have a Scanmaster 3. If it reads negative timing, is that doing the same thing as this light? (Still need better idea what I should be paying attention for).

Matt

[sandwood]

i believe pulling timing is distinct from knock. if you can datalog, e.g. with ecuexplorer, you can look at your knock correction values. negative KC values are indicative of knock.

[TSi+WRX]

Hi Jarrad!

Er.... :( The light's here, but there was no installation instructions (as to which wires to tap from the ECU) nor any "recommended setting levels" included in the package.

Big ---> :(

I need both, please! :D

Also:

quote=PDXTuning].... but we will work on the settings with our Tuner Pro and headphones to determine what the best settings are. Without being setup properly this is not going to benifit anyone.
[/quote]

So as I understand it, you guys "logged" with the ProTUNER software so as to figure out where best to have the sensitivity settings for the knock, correct?

Thanks! :)

[jim1969]

Tuner Pro is for UTEC.

[TSi+WRX]

^ Got instructions from Jarrad, will do this modification, hopefully, within the week. :)

Thanks, brother Jim, for that spot. :) Recently, it seems, READING > ALLEN. :lol:

[PLTek]

Jarrad,

Can you talk a bit about how the stock knock sensor works, frequencies it listens at, etc. and then expand on how engine modifications can create noise and potencially throw off readings and trigger timing corrections. Dont know much about that so hope you have experienced this when tuning cars, having to change the knock sensor frequencies that get monitored. I hope i am making sense here

PS

[PDXTuning]

Jarrad,

Can you talk a bit about how the stock knock sensor works, frequencies it listens at, etc. and then expand on how engine modifications can create noise and potencially throw off readings and trigger timing corrections. Dont know much about that so hope you have experienced this when tuning cars, having to change the knock sensor frequencies that get monitored. I hope i am making sense here

PS


It is very unlikly that the stock knock system listens for knock at a single frequency, or uses a simple level compartor. Most of the modern knock systems in newer ECUs use a more complicated algorythm that has was developed with inhouse testing. While the primary frequency of knock (actually the range, as it is not a single frequency) is measureable, there are other critical factors you need to take into account. Timing of the knock event relative to the spark ignition and crank angle are just two variables you would monitor.

As for modifications creating noise, the most common modifications that can cause knock sensor problems is forged pistons, especially when run very loose. The sound created by the piston slap, if loud enough, can cause the knock sensor to perceive knock. Valve train noise is also a potential problem, especially high lift high duration cams.

Every case is of course unique, but modifications that create more mid to high frequency engine noise can problematic. Generally, if you create more engine noise, you will mask knock, especially light knock. If you are tuning a high horsepower car with such modifications, relying on the knock system can be problematic.

Jeff Sponaugle
PDXTuning.com

[PLTek]

for the explanation !!

[TSi+WRX]

Just finished install - this is one *NICE* unit.

For those of you who did not know (like me), there are 3 separate LEDs embedded into this unit for SEPARATE/DISTINCT visualization of knock ("severe" = red, "moderate" = amber) and shift-point (green). :D I at first thought that the unit would simply illuminate/light when it received either knock or shift-point signals - i.e. that it had only one LED - but this is not the case.

Installation is *very* simple and straightforward.

Honestly, if you can splice wiring, you're good-to-go.

Considering that it took me a total of about 2 hours, from ripping up my passenger's side footwell carpet to having everything completely back together, I'd say that this modification was pretty easy. This was taking into account the time I took to double-check pinout and wiring diagrams, and also considering that I had a little confusion with one of the pinouts (more on this later)....

With only 4 wires to hook up (power, ground, RPM, and knock), plenty of length to the wiring, plus PDXT's excellent directions (of which only a small correction is needed, and I'll get to this, again, tomorrow) - and this unit's awesome dual-functionality - I'd well say that it's almost dumb to spent some $80 to $150 on a stand-alone shift-light, when for about the same price, you can get a great product that not only reminds you to upshift, but also will tattle-tale on dreaded knock!

:)

Thanks, Jarrad, for your care on this purchase and installation!

Getting late here - so I'll update on the RPM/Vehicle-Speed pinout amendment and comment more on general installation tips tomorrow!

[TSi+WRX]

OK, I'm back - Anna's on my lap, enjoying the tip-tapping rhythm of my hits on the keyboard, so I can stay a while. :)

In the provided installation instructions - which, mind y'all, PDXT had to do themselves, since TurboXS does not offer vehicle-specific instructions - the pinouts are labeled as the following"

B137 pin 14 - power (IGN 12V)
B135 pin 1 - ground

^ These I *_DID NOT CHECK_*as I simply tapped my power and grounds from dedicated wiring that I have set up within the vehicle cabin (I'm a ricer, and run lots of un-necessary accessories, such as a Escort X50/ZR3 combo, a full NEXUS cluster, an AEM UEGO, plus some neons :lol: , so the dedicated wiring, for me, was a setup of convenience). Please check these pinouts and their wiring lead color-codes, for yourself, before you proceed with the modification, if you'd like to tap these.

The white wire from the TXS Knock/Shift Light goes to the knock signal. This is as PDXT cited, B136 pin 25. In the vehicle wiring diagram, this is cited to be a blue wire (reference) with green stripe (encoded "BG"), however, strangely enough there was no such wire color in my vehicle, and by actually physically "counting" the pinout, the correct wire turned out to be a bluish-green/aqua wire! :lol: Looks like someone messed up something at the factory. ;)

So, for the knock signal, I don't know what color wire you might need to tap on your particular LGT - it might be the "blue reference w/green stripe" like the manual says or it might be my "bluish-green/aqua," or hell, it might even be something else. So, count your pinouts!

That, of course, cost me a few minutes of install time. :)

The other confusion that cost me some install time was with the engine-speed/RPM output. The directions from PDXT cited connection of the orange wire from the TXS light to B134 pin 34- however, when I tried to verify this pinout via the ECU IO chart as well as vehicle wiring diagram, I kept seeing pin 23, on the same harness connector (B134), as the proper pinout.... :confused: As it turns out, pin 23 is also the pinout associated with a pink wire, which is what many here have cited should be the engine speed output, so I took a leap of faith and tapped this one instead. :icon_tong As it turns out, indeed, my tap, that of pin 23 and the pink wire, works properly for the engine speed/RPM signal. :D

I'm honestly not sure if the pinout that PDXT cited would have worked with the vehicle speed/RPM signal. It's terminus on the wiring diagram was something that I could not decipher. :confused: Your advice/confirmation on this issue, Jarrad, would be most appreciated.

In any case, this was again a very easy mod, with the only tips being that you should get properly sized (the "red" colored two-in-line taps work great, as they are designed for wiring of 18 through 22 gauge thickness, if I remember correctly) vamp/T-taps for this project.

Additionally, you should be aware that "reading" pinouts, easiest to do from the disconnected harness plug end, will have you reading pinout diagram in a mirror-image fashion. The blank spots in each connector will help you quite a bit to properly orient yourself, but this is something that many newbies forget.....

Finally, when accessing the ECU, remember that while the vehicle harness encompassing B134 through B137 are arranged in ascending order as they enter the cabin, they are arranged in descending order on the physical ECU, if you "read" the connections in a top-to-bottom, in-column method. However, if you orient yourself so that you're "reading" the row of plugs from left to right (i.e. facing the interior of the vehicle, so that you're "head-on" with the row of plugs on the physical ECU), you'll see that they're arranged in proper, ascending (i.e. 134, 135, 136, 137) numerical order. ;)

I will update this thread with references for physical ECU location as well as the proper pinout and wiring diagrams shortly.

[eL GaTo]

Hey, Allen. Wise decision, since your car is so quiet (w/ stock mufflers) you might forget to upshift before detonation occurs.:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[TSi+WRX]

Physical ECU location -

Post number 2 by brother melayout has a visual attachment from the service manual:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20153&highlight=ecu+physical+location

Followed by post number 6, in which brother mwiener2 links to an actual picture of the location (great shot!): http://www.legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9100

------

Pinouts and wiring color -

Service Manual chapter 13, Electrical System

- Subset: "Basic Diagnostic Procedure"

- page WI-6
- wiring color chart

NOTE: Upon review, I think that the page WI-84, for the knock signal wire, should be "Lg" - with a lower-case "g" - to signify "light green" as the wire color. This would match my physical observations noted above.

- Subset: "Engine Electrical System"

- page WI-84
- knock signal
- B136 pin 25 (i.e. C25) - note wiring color LG (blue ref. w/green stripe)

- page WI-80
- RPM/vehicle speed signal (combination meter output)
- B134 pin 23 (i.e. A23) - note wiring color P (pink)


------


Confirmation of RPM/vehicle speed signal (post here on LGT.com) -

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21909&highlight=ECU

This is further supplemented by the "Engine Diagnostics" chapter (Chapter 10) of our service manual, subset "ECU IO Signals" (subset 05) - where both the knock sensor (signal) output and the vehicle speed output can be verified on page 18.

:D

[TSi+WRX]

Hey, Allen. Wise decision, since your car is so quiet (w/ stock mufflers) you might forget to upshift before detonation occurs.:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:icon_tong :lol: Damn, if that knock travels downstream THAT far, I think my engine might have grenaded long before the upshift! :icon_lol:

[TSi+WRX]

Oh, BTW, everyone - please note:

My references are only valid for 2005 Legacy 2.5GTs. Non-turbos will have to find their own pinouts. Similarly, I am uncertain if things may or may not have changed for the 2006 year LGTs.

[PDXTuning]

Looks like I grabbed the 06 wiring diagram when I sent you those. I will double check the 05 diagram and make new pinouts for both the 06 and the 05 LGT ECU.


Jarrad

[TSi+WRX]

Jarrad - Cool beans! :) No problem at all, just wanted to be sure that everyone's got the right taps going. ;)

Thanks again for the great service and follow-up! :D

[RobY]

so hows it workin?

[TSi+WRX]

Shift light is great :D , and so far, no knock according to PDXT's recommended preset - but I intend to log in the near future.

[TSi+WRX]

Wanted to update again that the shift LED (green), even under full-sunshine daylight conditions, mounted on the column (as seen in PDXT's pictures earlier in this thread), is fully and easily visible out of my peripheral vision.

:)

For those of you wanting a shift-light, there's truly no reason why you'd not get this unit, as you'd also get the safety margin of the knock-light! :D

[RobY]

i just installed mine... what is pdx's preset?

Im getting knock at upper RPM's where its set now

Its verified the knock wire is definately Aqua in color or (light green)

[TSi+WRX]

RobY - PM inbound.

:)

[RobY]

Thanks,

Im having issues with either my map or my knocklite I have the knocklite set to 7 and Im getting red and amber under full boost WOT. No audable knock. No lights when free revving. No lights under partial throttle.

Im running a Cobb STGII 93 map.

[sandwood]

Do you think it wd be equally effective, in terms of visibility, to have it mounted inside the center cubby? I'm getting one of these puppies, but I'd rather not have it out in the open all the time. otherwise I will definitely paint it black.

[RobY]

the light is pretty bright. You wont miss it at night. In the day light if its really sunny out its still visable but it would have to be in your line of sight to see it.

You can mount it in the center cubby and you will probably see it, but it is a bit out of your line of sight.

[RobY]

UPDATE:

According to Tari the Car IS knocking Im getting -4 KC around 4500-5500 RPM...

This is running an off the shelf COBB AP STGII 93 octane map. To think I have been running this way for ages :( .

This happens during 1st and 2nd gear pulls WOT. Its not like im loading the engine that much.

I have no modifications unapproved by COBB. Still on the stock airbox.

Im gonna get a fresh tank of gas to see whats goin on.

Update: Additional Logging revealed -2 KC around 3500 RPM WOT... Half tank of new 93 octane gas.

[sandwood]

post your logs in the logging results thread so we can take a look.

[RobY]

Will do when I can get some clean runs in 3rd gear tomorrow. Too much traffic makes for messy logs.

[sandwood]

take a look at whether the car is pulling timing as well. you may want to switch to the 91 octane map in the meantime.

[RobY]

yeah the car is definately pulling timing -8 peak for one instance. Not as severe regularly maybe -5 reproducable.

I have no idea what could be wrong... Im talking to jon right now to get a custom map.

Or maybe I should talk to the gas station Ive been going to to make sure they arent pumping the 93 out of the same tank as the 89 :(

[sandwood]

maf readings ok? boost readings? my car showed similar problems at one point with a boost leak off the MAP on the front of the intake manifold....

but then it cd also just be a really bad tank of gas I guess

[TSi+WRX]

^ Hum.....check that the MAF is clean? :)

[RobY]

I have additional problems now... Seems like the wire taps didnt do a very good job tapping I lost my RPM signal. Im gonna go in and solder.

Keep ya guys updated.

[TSi+WRX]

I'm having problems, too.

My problem is that all the taps are fine, but it seems, from what I can determine using a multimeter, that my light unit is defective....

I'm getting a green light (i.e. "shift" signal/flash) at the rate of one flash per second. The unit is not allowing me to modify either shift point nor knock sensitivity. It's also doing a very strange thing at start-up, flashing first a long green light, THEN cycling through the "normal" red-amber-green sequence.

My multimeter is reading up to 2 mA on the input wire...guessing this is a true unit fault.

Jarrad/PDXT - return & exchange? :(

[BOXRPWR]

I just ordered one of these too. sorry to hear about your "defective" unit. hope that's not a common problem.

I sure admire the fact that many of you guys are "Jr. Tuners" and seem to really know the ins-and-outs of engine mgmt, ECU readings, etc.

I'm going to have Dan Harman install mine when I do my motor swap out at the end of April. Thinking of painting the unit graphite black to better match the interior/steering column.

[TSi+WRX]

^ ROFL - I'm a "junior tuner" indeed, total shade-tree greasemonkey. It's a wonder I don't break more stuff! :lol: Trust me, there's definite truth in this statement. :)

I just function off of basic mechanical and electrical knowledge. Barely scraping by.

For my unit's malfunction, for instance, I'm simply relying on my multi-meter to tell me where there might be a break in the circuit, instead of trusting my visual inspection of the wiretaps. That, combined with the fact that the error signal (the 1 FPS "green" - which is drastically different from the signal the unit flashes if it is actually either not receiving a tach input or knock input) - plus the inability to access any of the programming functions on the unit, is what's making me think that my particular piece is defective. No real "tuner magic." ;)

And as for the pinouts/wiring, some of that stuff is again very basic, but knowledge passed-along here on LGT.com - for instance, Keefe's ECU I/O post - was instrumental in giving me what guidance I needed in order to get things done.

As for actual tuning, I defer to the knowledge and opinions of many of my local enthusiast as well as my musclecar buddy. :) And, of course, my fellow LGTers, many of whom have much, much, MUCH more experience reading logs and truly "tuning" the vehicle than I do. :D

[RobY]

Ok everything seems ok for now...

I reran some fresh wire and soldered my connections. I did use my multimeter. It showed a good connection until I jiggled the wire.

I seems like I had a faulty connection on the RPM wire. When I was programming the unit it never recorded my RPM readings. Thus it was filtering noise at the idle level!

No knock as indicated by the knocklite I will relog to see what kind of KC I get. I set the unit to 1 and I only get a "red" on decelleration.

[TSi+WRX]

^ Good to hear, bro! :)

Hum...maybe I should try soldering my connections? I jiggled, and even then, it was fine....

The thing with mine is that even with all the wires disconnected, it's not booting me out into the default rapid red/amber flash mode...which is why I think mine is a true unit fault.... :(

[TSi+WRX]

Thanks to Jarrad/PDXT, a replacement unit is flying its way over to me as we speak - even BEFORE I've had a chance to return mine! :eek: :D Now *that's* what I call customer service!!!! :)

[RobY]

I bought mine from Jarad about 8 months ago as well... It was only now that I got around to installing it :lol: His customer service is awesome.

Jarad do you or can you source some bosch standalone sensors for this unit. Im having problems tapping the stock knock sensor. PM for details if you wish.

[TSi+WRX]

Damn, Rob, I thought my NEXUS gauges sat for a while before install (about two months)...you've got me beat, hands down! :lol:

[RobY]

Yeah it was kind of half installed for about 4 months then Last weekend I finally got around to hooking up the Wires :lol:

[rodan]

I bought mine in November and haven't installed it yet... :lol:

[TSi+WRX]

Replacement unit is in, and is working like a charm! Thanks, Jarrad!

Install was a snap this time, as I had left some wiring "trailed out" from the ECU when I dis-installed the defective unit. ;) This time, it was a simple matter of stripping the ends of the wires, twisting, soldering, and then insulating the connections. Easy as pie! :D

In comparison with this replacement unit, the defective unit which I sent back also seemed to have a button that was somewhat "loose" and "inaccurate" feeling. This one actuated much more positively. Perhaps that was the trouble with the other one?

In any case, I just wanted to thank Jarrad/PDXT once again for sending out a replacement unit so fast - and even before I had returned my defective unit. With the hot weather these days, having this unit hooked-up certainly makes me feel a lot better! :)

[iamboon]

so as i look at the ECU from there are four plugs... starting from the bottom is that 134 correct?

I think it is 134... as i tapped the speed wire from my r-500 into the pink wire and i'm getting a hz readout. although i tapped into what i tought was the knock sensor (third plug up from the bottom , light greenish/teal color) but I am not getting a read out when i rev the car? should i monitor raw or normalized on my Knock Sensor?

is there a wire to tape into to monitor boost? if so which bank and what color - thanks

[iamboon]

Bump

[TSi+WRX]

imboon -

I honestly don't remember which plug. I'll have to take a look at mine, it's been a while since I did the install. The problem is that my LGT is currently at the body-shop, and I don't expect her to be back 'till the end of this week.

[iamboon]

imboon -

I honestly don't remember which plug. I'll have to take a look at mine, it's been a while since I did the install. The problem is that my LGT is currently at the body-shop, and I don't expect her to be back 'till the end of this week.

thanks... from your description on page 3 it reads like the bottom plug (near the feet) is 134 and the top plug (closer in the glove box) is 137...

thanks

[TSi+WRX]

^ Again, my apologies for not being able to get a visual confirmation for you earlier, bruddah. :redface:

[iamboon]

no worries - I hear the audible knock with head phones but when I get own the car (>5800 rpms) the knock sensor will read max 0.2 volts on the display... normal driving it reads 0.0v... would this be accurate?

[TSi+WRX]

^ Now that's outside of my very shallow knowledge pool. :( :redface:

Jarrad? Someone else?

[Beanboy]

Wanted to dust off this thread.

How is the light working for everybody? Anybody install it the cubby/cubby pod?

[LittleBlueGT]

Also curious.

[rodan]

I STILL haven't installed mine....

:lol:

[Gator GT]

I installed mine next to the infamous and mysterious Parking light switch on top of the steering column.

Only shows knock rarely on very high RPM shifts, but is a great shift light too!

I like it. I want to build one of those DIY knock stethoscope (discussed elsewhere on these boards) to see if this thing is accurate.

But all in all, pleased.

[LittleBlueGT]

So is 7 the general settings that people are using?

I should be installing mine today.

[TSi+WRX]

I've set mine to "8". It very, very, very rarely flashes, and when it does, I know that something's up (I've gotten skunked fuel a total of 3 times now, and this item has been very reliable in telling me that's what's up).

I figured that since the good Dr. Bailey provided me with a good, conservative tune, this is more of a backup device than aything else.

Like I said, it's far from perfect - I'd go into this, bro, expecting a fair share of false-positives - but it's a layer of protection, nonetheless.

:)

[mikeyan]

is that 8 as in 2 from least sensitive or 2 from most sensitive?

Thanks!


Mike

[Gator GT]

I have mine set to 4 flashes...I think the lesser amount of flashes yields a more sensitive "ear" for the knocklite, iirc.

[TSi+WRX]

Hey mikeyan - Doh! Sorry 'bout that! I keep forgetting that the Intraw3b is for more than 2-person conversations! :redface: My bad!

The scale is 1 to 10, from most sensitive (1) to least (10).

I've never had the light on my LGT when she was stock, so I honestly don't know how things might have played-out back then. Hopefully, brother Gator GT can further elaborate as to what he's seeing, with the device set to such a sensitive range (PDXT's recommendation was to set to "7," and adjust from there).

I know that one knock can effectively kill - and I know that this device is reporting such event "as it happens," which, technically, is already too-late. I also realize that there's a significant margin-of-error here.

However, I do believe that having *some* backup is better than not. For those times when I've gotten skunked gas, and the light alerted me to the issue, I honestly didn't hear any knock in-cabin. This, combined with the fact that if I were to see the light trip-off incessantly and repeatedly (especially in rev-ranges where I don't expect it to), then I'll know to back the heck off - is why I installed this light ( that, and the shift-light feature :) ).

I think that the tune is the first line, and best line, of defense. But for the low cost of this device, I think it does add another layer of safety, even given its undeniable shortcomings.

[Gator GT]

No problem.

Like I said, I'm set to either 3 or 4 flashes, so I guess I'm hanging out with the sensitive crowd.

I really see nothing until I've exceeded 6500 rpms, and I'm pretty sure what I see is an "orange" flash (as opposed to a "red -- danger danger" flash) right when I shift, which could be related to a phemon I recently read on here known as "shift-knock".

There was 1 occurance 2 weeks ago where I free-revved (engine was VERY warmed up) and as I crossed over 6500, I'm quite sureI saw the "orange" light again. I just wonder if the knock sensor is "hearing" noise due to being so high in the tach at that point. Not sure.

[L7GT]

I thought that the 07 and 08 models did not have a knock sensor?? (as enginuity cannot log KC for 07's and 08's) Could someone confirm this?

thanks.

[mickeyd2005]

I thought that the 07 and 08 models did not have a knock sensor?? (as enginuity cannot log KC for 07's and 08's) Could someone confirm this?

thanks.

KC is not the knock sensor.

KC = IAMxDA + Feedback correction + Fine learning Knock Correction

KC is just a mathematical representation of what the ecu is doing. The ecu doesn't need it because it uses IAM, FC, and FLKC. For some reason, SOA removed it. You can still calculate it yourself if you log the three components that make up KC.

The 07 and 08 DEFINITELY has a knock sensor in it.

[Infamous1]

Anyone know where I can find a pinout for a 2006 LGT? I am having no luck finding one....

[SSpeed]

How big is this light? Anyone have pictures of it installed?

[TSi+WRX]

I'll try for a couple of pix, as well as getting dimensions, if I've got a few spare moments tomorrow. :)

[TSi+WRX]

For now:

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u259/TSi_WRX/WinkyInsideDirtyNightTSXZR3.jpg

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u259/TSi_WRX/InteriorFull.jpg

Sorry about how dirty my interior is - the intent of both pictures (the second one is an old one, actually, and my "countermeasures setup" has changed) was to illustrate things for my fellow speed-detection countermeasures hobbyists, instead of for my fellow car-enthusiasts. :redface:

Regardless, you can kinda get an early idea here.

It's the device just to the left of the parking-light switch, on the column.

[unclemat]

uh, this thing is huge!

[SSpeed]

For now:

Sorry about how dirty my interior is - the intent of both pictures (the second one is an old one, actually, and my "countermeasures setup" has changed) was to illustrate things for my fellow speed-detection countermeasures hobbyists, instead of for my fellow car-enthusiasts. :redface:

Regardless, you can kinda get an early idea here.

It's the device just to the left of the parking-light switch, on the column.

Thanks much for posting the pics... it is a little bigger than I'd hoped for as well... it's definitely smaller than the KnockLink, but it's not super stealthy either... I was sort of hoping to put it in the cubby...

[Gator GT]

Spiral wrap it in electrical tape. Cut a little hole for the Setup button. Velcro to top of steering column cover. Done.

[BBBsti LTD]

I had one of this in my STi, but I removed it because I got scare to affect the ability of the ECU to detect and to react to knock effectively, but I had already tapped the ECU wires, I tapped the rpm and knock wires from the ECU, power and ground from the clock.

After I removed teh KL I am still concerned about having damaged the ECU wires with the wire taps. I have no CEL and when I log the car using romraider I get some feed back from the ECU at peak TQ, so I assume that the knock sensor and ECU are working in harmony.

Saying I damaged the wires, should I be getting a CEL for low circuit or high circuit of the knock sensor, right??

If I want to check that the ECU is getting a good signal from the knock sensor, how do I use the voltmeter to check???

Thanks for your help! I am STI owner but this forums provide GREAT info for general Subaru owners.

Thanks!

[TSi+WRX]

^ Good questions - I'm looking forward to those answers, myself.

That definitely greatly exceeds my shallow knowledge pool.....

[Gator GT]

I had one of this in my STi, but I removed it because I got scare to affect the ability of the ECU to detect and to react to knock effectively, but I had already tapped the ECU wires, I tapped the rpm and knock wires from the ECU, power and ground from the clock.

After I removed teh KL I am still concerned about having damaged the ECU wires with the wire taps. I have no CEL and when I log the car using romraider I get some feed back from the ECU at peak TQ, so I assume that the knock sensor and ECU are working in harmony.

Saying I damaged the wires, should I be getting a CEL for low circuit or high circuit of the knock sensor, right??

If I want to check that the ECU is getting a good signal from the knock sensor, how do I use the voltmeter to check???

Thanks for your help! I am STI owner but this forums provide GREAT info for general Subaru owners.

Thanks!


Well, if you used wire strippers, wound the KL wire leads AROUND and soldered them to the bare, uncut ECU wires, no damage would be sustained.

This is what I have done. It sounds to me, that you are worried because you used vampire clips, no?

I'm not worried about futzing around with signals from the ECU...this is a purely output device, I believe there are no signals returning FROM the KL to the ECU.

[BBBsti LTD]

This is what I have done. It sounds to me, that you are worried because you used vampire clips, no?



Yep, i believe that everything if fine because I dont get any CEL for low circuit or high circuit of the knock sensor, also my logs show a little knock activity under high loads some times, so I think I am fine.

[TSi+WRX]

If you get enough interference on the wiring (which is unshielded), you can feed back false knock signals to the ECU.

Both myself as well as another member here (:redface: sorry, bro! your name escapes me at the moment!) did run into this issue.

[SSpeed]

I had one of this in my STi, but I removed it because I got scare to affect the ability of the ECU to detect and to react to knock effectively, but I had already tapped the ECU wires, I tapped the rpm and knock wires from the ECU, power and ground from the clock.

After I removed teh KL I am still concerned about having damaged the ECU wires with the wire taps. I have no CEL and when I log the car using romraider I get some feed back from the ECU at peak TQ, so I assume that the knock sensor and ECU are working in harmony.

Saying I damaged the wires, should I be getting a CEL for low circuit or high circuit of the knock sensor, right??

If I want to check that the ECU is getting a good signal from the knock sensor, how do I use the voltmeter to check???

Thanks for your help! I am STI owner but this forums provide GREAT info for general Subaru owners.

Thanks!

Is your concern that, by adding more load to the circuit, you are possibly dropping or affecting (even if just minutely) the voltage that goes to the ECU to read knock? I hadn't really thought about that, but it's definitely a valid concern.