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View Full Version : what color are you gettin?


team23jordan
01-06-2004, 12:46 AM
http://www.legacysti.com/images/avatars/gallery/2005_Legacy/black_25.gif
http://www.legacysti.com/images/avatars/gallery/2005_Legacy/white_25.gif
http://www.legacysti.com/images/avatars/gallery/2005_Legacy/blue2_25.gif
http://www.legacysti.com/images/avatars/gallery/2005_Legacy/blue_25.gif
http://www.legacysti.com/images/avatars/gallery/2005_Legacy/green_25.gif
http://www.legacysti.com/images/avatars/gallery/2005_Legacy/red_25.gif
http://www.legacysti.com/images/avatars/gallery/2005_Legacy/silver_25.gif
the color that i'm thinking about getting one is
black, white, dark blue, silver, and red

team23jordan
01-06-2004, 12:49 AM
i love the black
but this guy on i-club said
First, Suvaru doens't make a real black, it's either a dark blue, a very deep maroon, or a back/gold metalflake. thay all look gorgeous when clean, but Subaru paint quality sucks. It's soft, and it's thin. My hood looks like it's covered with flecks of white paint, all over. It has swirl marks, all over. It has bigger chips and poor, thin clearcoat, all over.

Don't get me wrong, I love my car, but I'll never buy another black Subaru.
but his is 97
so hopefully it changed :( :shock:

Tide
01-06-2004, 04:02 AM
I love the white one. Its such a sleeper looking car. Although the silver at the top of this site looks pretty bad ass. Only checking them out in person will tell.

sti_owner
01-06-2004, 12:52 PM
The black one with bodyskirts look mighty pimp.

team23jordan
01-06-2004, 08:18 PM
http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/b4/07/imgs/photo_401.jpg
white looks great too
damn
if i can't decide...
i'm just gonna get 4 legacys... :lol: :P

Tide
01-06-2004, 08:30 PM
White... yeah! Is it just me or does that B4 have a little extra body kit and some lowered action on 18" rims?

team23jordan
01-06-2004, 08:31 PM
^ i think b4 has whole body kit on it
and i like that rim better than 17" wheel that US is getting

EJ20H-TT
01-06-2004, 09:09 PM
The JDM GT spec B comes with 18's as standard.

All the other models have 17's

EJ20H-TT
01-06-2004, 09:12 PM
I like the way on the bonnet scoop contrast against the white.

team23jordan
01-07-2004, 01:30 AM
those are some nice 18" stock rims :shock:

Tide
01-07-2004, 02:39 AM
The white B4 above is the exactly what I want to buy. :shock:

I just made my avatar that image. :twisted: :)

team23jordan
01-07-2004, 03:59 PM
^is that avatar only for site admin? :lol:

EJ20H-TT
01-07-2004, 04:10 PM
I was just down at my local Subaru dealer this morning and saw a aspen white GT spec B.

They look even better in the flesh.

team23jordan
01-07-2004, 04:12 PM
can you take pics of legacys sometime??
i'd love to see more pics of'em :shock:

Tide
01-07-2004, 04:59 PM
Im definitely stopping by a Subaru dealer when Im in Syndey next month. Not sure if they will let me test drive it or not. Maybe I shouldn't if were getting the less HP model over here. heh.


I was just down at my local Subaru dealer this morning and saw a aspen white GT spec B.

They look even better in the flesh.

team23jordan
01-07-2004, 05:06 PM
tide you must take your digital cam with you
or camcorder will be even better :D

EJ20H-TT
01-07-2004, 05:22 PM
Im definitely stopping by a Subaru dealer when Im in Syndey next month. Not sure if they will let me test drive it or not. Maybe I shouldn't if were getting the less HP model over here. heh.


Well thats no problem cause the aussie have got only detuned versions.

Why do they detune the Aussie versions ? ~ I think they do it because of fear of detonation. Australia is a pretty hot especially summer. The top end of Aussie is tropical.

That plus the lower quality of the fuel. I think 95 octane (ron) is the most common with a few areas have 98.

NZ is much cooler and 98 octane is easily available. So we get the real deal 205kw cars.

What worse is Australia are yet to get manuals.

Currently they have for sale the Auto version which has been derated to only 180 kw or 241 hp.

Subaru Auto's have always been derated even in Japan. For example the B4 RSK manual was rated at 206kw vs 190kw for auto.

The same is also the case for the new legacy GT.

EJ20H-TT
01-07-2004, 05:29 PM
Max. output (DIN) kW/rpm 180/6400
Max. torque (DIN) Nm/rpm 310/2400
Max. speed (in top gear) km/h 237
0-100 Km/h secs 6.8
Fuel Consumption (ADR81/01) 10.2

From http://subaru.com.au/explore/liberty/specifications.asp?item=23235

AMT4SWA
01-08-2004, 09:37 AM
I hope Subaru will bring out a Gray color for this car. I love the "Atlas Gray" used by Audi and the "Steal Gray" used by Saab. If they only bring the colors listed in the poll, then I will most likely choose Silver or possibly one of the Blue colors (never had a blue car before). Black is awesome but just to darn hard to keep looking fresh (had a black BMW once...pain in the a$$). Sleeper color for this car may end up being a White color...we shall see soon! My current car is a Silver "02" IS 300, and this color is very easy to take care of IMO.

EJ20H-TT
01-09-2004, 01:14 AM
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~1amiga/BLleg_30.jpg

EJ20H-TT
01-09-2004, 01:25 AM
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~1amiga/legacy_2.jpg

Tide
01-09-2004, 02:41 AM
Ok, time to find out what rims these are. Any ideas? Are they from Subaru? I can't find them on the Japanese site. Possibly optional 18" Wheels.

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~1amiga/BLleg_30.jpg

AMT4SWA
01-09-2004, 08:39 AM
These are Subaru optional wheels from the Japan Legacy site...looks like they are the optional factory wheels for the B4 cars.

dark_rex
01-09-2004, 10:03 AM
i like the sinister look. :evil:

http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=392561

Dr. Zevil
01-09-2004, 01:08 PM
I would love to get the Nagano (?) blue that came on the B4 for a while. I absolutely love that color. Otherwise I think I will have to go with white or silver. Since my WRX is silver right now I think I might have to go with the white. It's classy but still very sporty.

gtguy
01-09-2004, 05:02 PM
Make mine silver. I had a black Legacy GT wagon and loved how the black looked purplish in the sunlight, but having a black car is torment, even for a neat freak such as I.

Kevin

team23jordan
01-09-2004, 06:00 PM
OMG THOSE WHITE ARE :shock: :shock: :shock:
now i like white more than black
and just like what tide said
those rims are :shock:

team23jordan
01-09-2004, 06:40 PM
i just saw some pics of legacy in different color than white,black, and silver
and RED and DARK BLUE IS VERY TEMPTING just like white, black, silver
EDIT PICS
http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/bt/gallery/ex006_wp_s.jpg
http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/bt/gallery/ex004_wp_s.jpg
http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/bt/gallery/ex003_wp_s.jpg

AMT4SWA
01-09-2004, 09:55 PM
That blue color looks very nice, and I actually like the U.S. spec front bumper wrap much better than the Japan spec. I think it is the shape of the lower central cut-out that looks better to me over the Japan spec piece. The U.S. spec foglamp placement and design looks more sophisticated also...not like some PIAA's pushed into a small hole cut-out. :lol:

AMT4SWA
01-09-2004, 10:04 PM
Now that black GT looks mean as heck!!! 8) Subaru please have a dark gray color (U.S. market loves this color...new RX-8, G35 Coupe, IS300, new TL, 9-3 Vector, 330, A4, well Subaru...you get the hint!), so I can have the "mean" snarl front end look without the up keep pain of a black car exterior. :wink:

team23jordan
01-10-2004, 01:44 AM
dark grey looks good in some cars and they look bad in some cars...
i'm not so sure about legacy
i'll photoshop it tommorow
but i need a host

EJ20H-TT
01-10-2004, 01:55 AM
a point to consider

Silver the safest car colour

20.12.2003
By STUART DYE
Silver is the safest colour for cars, brown, black and green are the most dangerous, a New Zealand study in the British Medical Journal shows.

The research assessed the effect of car colours on the risk of serious injury in more than 1000 Auckland drivers between 1998-99.

All cases analysed involved collisions where one or more occupants of the car were taken to hospital or died.

Silver cars, thanks to their high visibility, offered a major reduction - about 50 per cent - in the risk of serious injury compared with white cars.

The risk factor for white, the commonest colour for New Zealand cars, was about the same as for yellow, grey, red and blue, but darker colours were the least safe.

The study concludes that increasing the proportion of silver cars could be an effective strategy to reduce the burden of injury from car crashes.

The University of Auckland study took into account the age, sex and educational level of the driver, and whether they had been using drugs or alcohol or had worn a seatbelt.

team23jordan
01-10-2004, 02:02 AM
colour
i love british english!
anyways but thesedays everybody has silver cars
i'm not sure about NZ but in seattle you just walk around town for like 2 minutes, and you see like 1000s of silver cars driving by you :roll:

A POINT TO CONSIDER
you get your insurance discount if your car is red

PPower
01-11-2004, 09:54 AM
With the big bumpers, black will look the most flattering I think.

Dark grey would be my ideal color, and I can't think of a car that doesn't look good in dark grey. Similar to black but doesn't show dirt as badly.

Insurance discount for red? Why? Red is the hardest color to match paint for repair, and it is the most dangerous for rear end collision since the tail lights blend in with the color.

team23jordan
01-11-2004, 05:21 PM
^ i dont know
my friend has a red G35 coupe
and he gets discount cause the red is most visible color or something
and i talk to my agent and he said you get like 50 dollar discount per year or something

EJ20H-TT
01-11-2004, 05:35 PM
You know blue looks good as well

team23jordan
01-11-2004, 05:38 PM
^they do but i'm not sure about $50 dollar discount tho

but the Blue for USDM legacy is not the blue that STi Legacy has
like your avatar
those are beauty WRB
but we get weird blues

goneskiian
01-11-2004, 08:53 PM
I'm goin' with Silver as well. I've got a black car now and it's a PITA to keep cleen. That and I love the sleeper look of silver. White might be pretty cool too or even that lighter of the blue colors.

"i'm not sure about NZ but in seattle you just walk around town for like 2 minutes, and you see like 1000s of silver cars driving by you "

I hear you there team23. I'm in the Seattle area as well and there are quite a few silver cars. Probably because silver hides all the road grime we get here in the winter. ;)

-Ian

SUBE555
01-12-2004, 12:43 AM
I never said I'll never own a black car again as they show EVERYTHING. Then again, when they're clean. :D

Chalk me up for black. :P Silver is my backup. My ultimate is a gunmetal grey though. [drool]

AMT4SWA
01-12-2004, 02:32 AM
SUBE555....Yes!!! A gray metallic color is what I would LOVE also! Does Subaru even have any current gray colors in production though?

Dr. Zevil
01-12-2004, 08:37 AM
I am leaning towards white. I never liked white cars but the legacy looks sweet in that white color. Not the bright white (aspen?) but the pearl white color. I think that when it comes down to it I will end up getting the silver. It's been such a nice color on my WRX. It barely shows dirt and the paint is pretty durable, unlike other suabru colors.

PPower
01-12-2004, 09:23 AM
SUBE555....Yes!!! A gray metallic color is what I would LOVE also! Does Subaru even have any current gray colors in production though?

No grey like that, but look at this S401 and a quick photoshop Neek did over on Nasioc.
http://www.carview.co.jp/express/legacy_s401/img/2_l.jpg
http://www.carview.co.jp/express/legacy_s401/img/3_l.jpg
http://prod.bsis.bellsouth.net/coDataImages/p/Groups/137/137645/folders/102824/711842subarulegacygtfront1.jpg

The RB5 Impreza looked grey in different lights but is was really steel blue. That's really the closest that I'm aware of otherwise.

Dr. Zevil
01-12-2004, 10:11 AM
That would be my color of choice. I highly doubt that they will produce it though. Maybe I should budget for a new paint job right away! :cry:

AMT4SWA
01-12-2004, 01:55 PM
PPower...DID YOU HAVE TO GO AND DO THAT??? AND A PICTURE WITH THOSE BBS 18's!!! :cry:

Yes gray would look great but I am most likely going to go with the Silver (not going to get my hopes up yet for any gray color), and I will definetly check out the darker of the two blues as a second possible choice.

PPower
01-12-2004, 02:41 PM
PPower...DID YOU HAVE TO GO AND DO THAT??? AND A PICTURE WITH THOSE BBS 18's!!! :cry:

mwah ha ha
I'd sure like to do some petition to get SoA to bring us grey. The US got yellow when nobody else did, and the US won't get the dark green like the Impreza is missing as well. I wonder if there is still time to put more influence. We've made a big stink about grey in the past. Who knows if they were listening. :(

team23jordan
01-13-2004, 02:00 AM
I am leaning towards white. I never liked white cars but the legacy looks sweet in that white color. Not the bright white (aspen?) but the pearl white color. I think that when it comes down to it I will end up getting the silver. It's been such a nice color on my WRX. It barely shows dirt and the paint is pretty durable, unlike other suabru colors.

i've seen couple old cadillac devills with pearl white...
and once they loose clear coat...they are :oops:

Kasugai
01-14-2004, 03:27 PM
So what do we know about how the colors are to be named? My first Legacy was Misty Dawn, more evocative of a porn star than a car's color I thought. Takes a pretty romantic mind to come up with 'mauve' and my parking tickets read anywhere from brown to tan. Will we be seeing similarly creative or more pragmatic color names?

axis008
03-09-2004, 12:14 AM
Bumping this since there are more new members to survey.

Oh yeah, and I pick white.. :D

Ridgeracer
03-09-2004, 12:46 AM
whatever comes in first at the dealer between black and dark blue...

TeeLoo
03-09-2004, 11:49 AM
I voted for Red but would love to see non-metallic gray (seen it on early model years of audi tt). I also would like to see some kind of flash/bright green (somewhere between a lime and a brocoli). Anyhow, I would like to see some special/unique colors available. Also, I love the "rally" blue of the WRX.

Th3Franz
03-11-2004, 06:06 PM
I like that red, but dark blue, silver, or a dark gray would be cool too.

Mines
03-12-2004, 02:08 AM
i think the optional wheels are from prodrive

GC-010E
http://www.prodrive-japan.com/products/gc_010e_forged/subwin/img/01_02.jpg

http://easyfinder.atnext.com/images/next-photos/EasyFinder/607/640pixfolder/X607-067/X607-067-06.jpg

and my fav. color... pearl white MMMmmM

tallguylehigh
03-12-2004, 07:04 AM
Those wheels are absolutely gorgeous, they look amazing. Anyone know about how much a set of these wheels would cost? Thanks.

ha-evolution
03-12-2004, 08:40 AM
i think the optional wheels are from prodrive

GC-010E
and my fav. color... pearl white MMMmmM


Are those the same wheels? They look very different.

AgWagon
03-12-2004, 09:26 AM
Definitely not the same wheels. Close, but different. Curve into the center is different and so is the little flange on each spoke on the Prodrives. I like 'em, though.

gtguy
03-12-2004, 09:51 AM
I've changed my mind...I'm getting red. I just can't resist the lure of a red car, and that color will force me to rein my my...erm...exuberant driving style.

And Big Red will have Prodrive P1 wheels on her.

BTW, the Prodrive wheels are MUCH better looking than whatever those other wheels are (on the white Spec B Legacy). I know they're Subaru wheels, but I don't know who makes them for Subaru. Also, look at the spoke design of the Prodrives. Those wheels are going to be significantly stronger than the other wheel, which looks as if the spokes sitting on the outside of the rim as a weak point.

Kevin

ha-evolution
03-12-2004, 10:05 AM
Red, black, dark blue, white - I just can't decide.

DrGT
03-12-2004, 10:34 AM
My dealer just ordered one for me :D
No firm contract or deposit, but exactly the one I want
... and nobody will buy it if I like it :twisted:

The car?
a GT wagon limited, 5 sp, dark blue.

TeeLoo
03-12-2004, 11:06 AM
My dealer just ordered one for me :D
No firm contract or deposit, but exactly the one I want
... and nobody will buy it if I like it :twisted:

The car?
a GT wagon limited, 5 sp, dark blue.

Which dealer (Montreal area?), did you get to see the available color palette?

Will you be able to negotiate the price if you decide to buy it? What is the promised delivery date?

ha-evolution
03-12-2004, 11:11 AM
I've got an order for a dark blue GT limited sedan but the color can be changed until the actual allocation comes in.

DrGT
03-12-2004, 11:41 AM
Which dealer (Montreal area?), did you get to see the available color palette?

Will you be able to negotiate the price if you decide to buy it? What is the promised delivery date?

1. I am in the Beauce region! (me: St-Georges, dealer: Ste-Marie).
The dealer faxed me some sale represantative info, with the color names. Then, I went here to see them : http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/b4/01/index.html
2. Price :"coming soon"! NO more than MRSP, for sure
3. Delivery: not known yet either, probably early june.

BTW, are you french speaking, like me?

TeeLoo
03-12-2004, 03:11 PM
BTW, are you french speaking, like me?

Oui, Monsieur! De Montréal.

panos
03-15-2004, 10:06 AM
The white up close looks freakin amazing.

waflowers
03-16-2004, 09:42 AM
i like the sinister look. :evil:

http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=392561
Now that the official colors have been announced I was all set to vote, but found that I must have already voted. Don't remember doing so, but they say that memory is the 2nd thing to go (and I don't remember the 1st).

The white appears to be quite nice as does the red and dark blue. But I'd have to see them in person to be sure. OTOH the black does look beautifully sinister. Just imagine it with dark tint. :twisted:

Hmmm ... sounds much like my current GT. Do I detect a trend? ;)

SUBE555
03-16-2004, 10:02 AM
I detect a trend. My black GT first came with a low level tint. Color was nice, but the tint was flaking off and the exterior was sand blasted from 3 years of being in colorado before I had it. Black and a low-medium tint looks great. It's a thought on my part. We'll see what I follow through with. :)

Ridgeracer
03-16-2004, 05:08 PM
c'mon....two more people vote for the black so we can take this poll....lol

waflowers
03-16-2004, 09:41 PM
I wonder what the heck color I originally voted for. Is there anyway to retract my vote so I can vote again (for black!). :)

SUBE555
03-16-2004, 09:50 PM
The atlantique blue might be real nice too. Hmm, I wonder how gold or brone rims would look with that. :?

team23jordan
03-16-2004, 10:13 PM
except for blue and green
legacy looks damn fine
its soo hard to decide which color to get

SUBE555
03-16-2004, 11:13 PM
How about decide when they're in front of you, except you won't be the first one with one then.

P2x
03-16-2004, 11:17 PM
Personally I'd want one of the blues I think. But I'll probably get the silver becuase I'm dead keen on getting a spoiler kit, and from my WRX experience it's difficult to find them in the less popular colours.

However I think black looks the absolute best, but I hear way to many complaints about keeping it looking good and I'm lazy by nature.. so forget that.

Sub-attraction
03-17-2004, 08:12 AM
I like the silver, but I have silver now and looking for a change. That would make my first choice be the satin pearl white. Black is really sharp but too hard to maintain. I'll be interested in seeing the blues but doubt they have the sporting quality of the rally blue. Why couldn't it be June already :!:

Trey@COBB
03-19-2004, 07:44 PM
We're getting a White GT Sedan 5-speed as our development vehicle. Our WRX and STI are white so why not. Our Forester XTs are black and that was going to be my second choice if they brought over that ugly creamy-yellow white.

We'll be picking ours up from our friends at Subaru of Dallas. Great guys, highly recommended. They're ~1000 miles from us now yet we still bought our STI and now our Legacy GT from them if that says anything. ;)

Cheers,
Trey @ COBB Tuning

axis008
03-19-2004, 08:20 PM
Yay for white! Welcome, Trey, to the forums.

Mines
03-21-2004, 08:06 AM
I would get blue, if the blue was like the one offered by the Japanese market Mazdaspeed RX-8

Midnight Blue MMmmmM :D
http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=151320
http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=151347
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/picture_library/dir_24/car_portal_pic_12212.jpg?7401

I guess pearl white is good enough... :)

ha-evolution
03-21-2004, 08:51 AM
OMG that's the blue I want! That's exactly what I was hoping the darker blue was going to be like. That RX-8 doesn't look bad either - too bad their so slow.

team23jordan
03-21-2004, 01:46 PM
that midnight blue RX-8 is pimp
and RX-8 is not slow at all

Mines
03-21-2004, 09:28 PM
Yeah RX-8 is as fast as the G35 Coupe, even though itz HP is 238 from a 1.3L!!! Since itz so light, it can keep up with the G35 Coupe. I was gonna get a RX-8 a couple of months ago, but my parents said i need to get a conventional 4-door, because of saftey issues.

P2x
03-21-2004, 10:16 PM
Yeah RX-8 is as fast as the G35 Coupe, even though itz HP is 238 from a 1.3L!!! Since itz so light, it can keep up with the G35 Coupe. I was gonna get a RX-8 a couple of months ago, but my parents said i need to get a conventional 4-door, because of saftey issues.

You sure that's not wishful thinking from RX8 owners or at least not a modified RX8 keepin up with the G35? Some of the 0-60 and 1/4 mile figures I've seen in the mags have been decidedly pedestrian..

team23jordan
03-21-2004, 11:34 PM
i think RX-8 as a four door car...

Mines
03-21-2004, 11:43 PM
...u have to launch the RX-8 hard, look at caranddriver's results
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=4346&page_num ber=5
RX-8 0-60= 5.9
G35 0-60=5.5
Lap times for caranddriver at Streets of Willow road-racing circuit in Southern California
RX-8= 1:20.61
G35 = 1:20.51

and for team23jordan, i think its a 4-door too, but not insurance

Doesn't matter, Legacy is gonna be a GREAT :D car, i hope itz gonna be a better driver's car than the rx-8... we'll see :o

ha-evolution
03-22-2004, 07:05 AM
In the Best Motoring International video titled "Rotary Reborn" which features the RX-8 racing a S2000, Skyline (G35), BMW 330i, Fairlady Z (350Z), WRX, and Integra Type R on a track the RX-8 comes in dead last. Needless to say it was a disappointing rebirth or dare I say the RX-8 was stillborn? :lol:

The testers did like the RX-8 as I recall but it was a little softer than it needed to be which should be addressed by Mazdaspeed by now. I would be happy indeed if the Legacy is a better's drivers car from a balance and steering standpoint.

team23jordan
03-24-2004, 05:58 PM
anyways back to legacy guys
what yall think about quality of subaru's paint???
i heard black loses its beauty soon (within 3~4 years)
what kinda paint they use??

SUBE555
03-24-2004, 06:25 PM
Couldn't truly tell you on the newest ones. In the past it's shown to be pretty thin and brittle, maybe another coat or two of a good clear would make things a lot more durable. Guess it's something repeat Subaru owners have come to terms with knowing it's just one of those things (unfortunately.)

Looking around the school parking lot lately at a lot of other new late models though, I was suprised at the number of chips on a lot of those cars too for some reason considering everyone said Subaru was really bad. *shrug*

MSB
03-25-2004, 01:40 AM
In the Best Motoring International video titled "Rotary Reborn" which features the RX-8 racing a S2000, Skyline (G35), BMW 330i, Fairlady Z (350Z), WRX, and Integra Type R on a track the RX-8 comes in dead last. Needless to say it was a disappointing rebirth or dare I say the RX-8 was stillborn? :lol:

The testers did like the RX-8 as I recall but it was a little softer than it needed to be which should be addressed by Mazdaspeed by now. I would be happy indeed if the Legacy is a better's drivers car from a balance and steering standpoint.

http://consumeraffairs.com/news03/mazda_buyback.html

For those disappointed by their RX8.

3.75L H6
03-25-2004, 02:22 PM
Ford SVT Mustang Cobra...
It scorches through the quarter-mile in 12.9 seconds, hitting 112 mph. It rips to 60 mph in just 4.6 seconds and to 100 just six seconds later. The 155-mph governed top speed comes up quickly and effortlessly. Not only can the Cobra easily show its heels to the two competitors here, but it is also substantially quicker than any car available for its $34,750 sticker price.

I wouldn't say that the Cobra is substantially quicker than the STi.... :?

ha-evolution
03-25-2004, 03:44 PM
I wouldn't say less than .5 seconds (or less) quicker in the quarter mile is substantially quicker either.