Got a brochure and I'm a bit disappointed...

[Tin_pusher]

With the following so far.

1. No Nav system
2. No HID's, even though cars with the same price have them ie. Audi and Acura.
3. The instruments on the steering wheel do not have backlighting. This really sucks at night, and it not a pleasing omission in this class of vehicle.

[AMT4SWA]

What brochure do you have...the small introductory bi-fold one? This is just an overview of some of the key features of the car. I have read somewhere that NAV will be a U.S. option for the Legacy. The steering wheel lighting I do not know about (maybe some of the "Mate's" out west can fill us in?). I have a feeling that more Subaru news will be announced at the next big U.S. Auto Show (Chicago and New York).

[Tin_pusher]

Yeah, I went to the need-desire website and requested one and I got it in the mail today. They have a picture of the interior inside, and a description of features of the various models on the back. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of things I like about it, but the above are biggies for me.

*edit* And I hope you're right about the Nav system, but if they planned on offering it, I can only assume that they'd put it in the brochure.

[AMT4SWA]

No HID's are the main thing I am surprised about...I guess they are saving that for some variation in the future (STI or H6 Premium Edition???), also the 6 spd manual. :cry:


BTW, you a ARTCC or a Tower person?

[Tin_pusher]

I'm an approach and tower controller at Cascade Approach. Are you in the biz?

[team23jordan]

what no HID??
you gotta be kidding me
subaru is officially making a lot of people dissapointed about legacy by not having features that 30G car should have as either standard or option

[team23jordan]

this actually is pissing me off
even though i can get "wanna be HID bulbs and make it look like HID"
now i have to rethink about legacy because i can get other cars with better features with same money :evil:
now STi is first car that i wanna get on my list

[AMT4SWA]

Tin_Pusher...Fixed and rotary-wing pilot and I work at Southwest Airlines in aircraft maintenance. Sounds like you have a good area (region) to work! Good to have some aviation people here. :)

[Skylab™]

I'd buy an aftermarket NAV system, or wait a model year for some options. The DVD NAV in the 2004 Acura models is amazing. You simply talk to it, and it finds directions, phone #'s, points of interest, etc. With built in BlueTooth™, it makes the NAV option quite appealing. This is the future of navigation systems.

Not to mention, Acura has DVD NAV and OnStar™.

I still want a Legacy, though.

[Dr. Zevil]

this actually is pissing me off
even though i can get "wanna be HID bulbs and make it look like HID"
now i have to rethink about legacy because i can get other cars with better features with same money :evil:
now STi is first car that i wanna get on my list


Dude, the STi and the GT are not even REMOTELY the same car. Personally I am trying to get away from my WRX sedan because it feels cheap and small to me now. If you want an STi, then you are looking for performance and nothing else. If you want a GT then you are looking for a certain level of refinement and creature comforts integrated into a car that can lay some serious smackdown on the road. HID's are not that big of a deal. I can put some in myself. Be happy that we got projector lamps at all.

Oh, and how the hell are you gonna afford the insurance on an STi? I was scared of the insurance when I was going to buy one and I am almost 30. Don't get me wrong, I hope you get whatever you want.

[gtguy]

I got the same brochure, and got so geeked I couldn't even see straight. Then again, I don't care about HIDs, nav, or backlit steering wheel instruments, though I admit to not knowing what that final item is.

I thought about other cars with the same features for the same money, but thought of features those cars don't have, that the Legacy GT does:

Great looks
Killer performance
All-wheel drive

I'm sold, but y'all already knew that. :D

A well-designed projector system (I'm used to the Prodrive lights) can be excellent, particularly with the addition of some Philips VisionPlus bulbs.

Kevin

[Dr. Zevil]

I got the same brochure, and got so geeked I couldn't even see straight. Then again, I don't care about HIDs, nav, or backlit steering wheel instruments, though I admit to not knowing what that final item is.

I thought about other cars with the same features for the same money, but thought of features those cars don't have, that the Legacy GT does:

Great looks
Killer performance
All-wheel drive

I'm sold, but y'all already knew that. :D

Kevin

So you are getting a wagon Kevin? What do you need the space for? I am considering getting one but I just don't know if it's the right image for me. I have a dog and need to be able to carry things for the new house. But I just can't seem to get over the hump.

[Skylab™]

When the Acura Integra debuted with projector beams, wasn't that considered revolutionary back then? I though the idea of tiny round headlights would look rather funny...and it did, for a bit...just like the WRX's bug-eyed lights!

[Gumby]

Great looks
Killer performance
All-wheel drive


Trinkets are nice but this is what it's all about IMO.

[PPower]

When the Acura Integra debuted with projector beams, wasn't that considered revolutionary back then? I though the idea of tiny round headlights would look rather funny...and it did, for a bit...just like the WRX's bug-eyed lights!

The 300ZX was using projectors for the low beams starting in 1990. I don't know who/what used projectors before then.

[gtguy]

So you are getting a wagon Kevin? What do you need the space for? I am considering getting one but I just don't know if it's the right image for me. I have a dog and need to be able to carry things for the new house. But I just can't seem to get over the hump.

I'm a cyclist, and carry my bike in the back, rather than on the roof, where it makes noise and catches bugs.

Image, schmimage. The wagon looks better IMHO, and the seats fold down. I'll never drive a sedan again, now that I'm used to the wagon's versatility. :lol:

Kevin

[Dr. Zevil]

So you are getting a wagon Kevin? What do you need the space for? I am considering getting one but I just don't know if it's the right image for me. I have a dog and need to be able to carry things for the new house. But I just can't seem to get over the hump.

I'm a cyclist, and carry my bike in the back, rather than on the roof, where it makes noise and catches bugs.

Image, schmimage. The wagon looks better IMHO, and the seats fold down. I'll never drive a sedan again, now that I'm used to the wagon's versatility. :lol:

Kevin

Yeah, I totally hear what you're saying, but I just don't think I will be able to bring myself to buy a wagon. I just don't know what's wrong with it or me. I know that it would be an incredible value, but something inside wants me to feel like I am hanging onto the sports car. Decisions, decisions.

[gtguy]

Yeah, I totally hear what you're saying, but I just don't think I will be able to bring myself to buy a wagon. I just don't know what's wrong with it or me. I know that it would be an incredible value, but something inside wants me to feel like I am hanging onto the sports car. Decisions, decisions.

Think of it as a sports car with a backpack. :lol:

Kevin

[Dr. Zevil]

The more I look at it, the more I like it. Now if it would just come without those 4 inch tall roof rails. Those things are hideous.

[PPower]

The more I look at it, the more I like it. Now if it would just come without those 4 inch tall roof rails. Those things are hideous.

The 4" rails are to visually help with the 4" extended bumpers. Duh! ;)

[EJ20H-TT]

Hey people a car is more than bumpers, headlights and roof rails.

[team23jordan]

this actually is pissing me off
even though i can get "wanna be HID bulbs and make it look like HID"
now i have to rethink about legacy because i can get other cars with better features with same money :evil:
now STi is first car that i wanna get on my list


Dude, the STi and the GT are not even REMOTELY the same car. Personally I am trying to get away from my WRX sedan because it feels cheap and small to me now. If you want an STi, then you are looking for performance and nothing else. If you want a GT then you are looking for a certain level of refinement and creature comforts integrated into a car that can lay some serious smackdown on the road. HID's are not that big of a deal. I can put some in myself. Be happy that we got projector lamps at all.

Oh, and how the hell are you gonna afford the insurance on an STi? I was scared of the insurance when I was going to buy one and I am almost 30. Don't get me wrong, I hope you get whatever you want.
yah i know they are totally different car
i kinda said that whole thing because i wanted Subaru to read it

[gtguy]

yah i know they are totally different car
i kinda said that whole thing because i wanted Subaru to read it[/quote]

Uh, not that I'm into bubble bursting, but the odds that Subaru is monitoring this site are infinitesimal. The odds that they will react to anything written here are even smaller. Sorry.

Kevin

[team23jordan]

just found this on subaru.com
DETROIT, January 5, 2004 - Subaru of America Inc., the only car company that provides Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive as standard equipment on every vehicle in its product line, has introduced the 2005 Legacy 2.5 GT Sedan and Wagon. The most powerful Legacy ever offered in the U.S. market, the 2005 Legacy 2.5 GT is powered by a new 250-horsepower intercooled/turbocharged boxer engine.

Simultaneous with the introduction of the 2005 Legacy 2.5 GT to the media, Subaru of America will reveal product details to consumers on a new Internet micro site, with an address that suggests the brand's premium performance evolution - www.Need-Desire.com.

The 2005 Legacy 2.5 GT will lead a thoroughly revised model line that will include the Legacy 2.5 GT Limited Sedan and Wagon, which feature additional luxury content. Legacy 2.5i and Legacy 2.5i Limited models, both available as a sedan and wagon, are powered by a naturally aspirated 2.5-liter boxer engine that provides enhanced response for 2005.

With a distinctive fusion of style, performance and function, Legacy 2.5 GT will deliver on the promise of a premium driving performance experience. "The 2005 Legacy 2.5 GT is designed to provide the kind of 'sensuous performance' that truly sets it apart from mainstream models," said Fred Adcock, Executive Vice President, Subaru of America, Inc. "Legacy 2.5 GT has been designed to give the driver the kind of power, performance and control that instills premium performance cars with distinct and memorable brand identity," he added.

Built on a new version of the company's proven Ring-Shaped Reinforcement Frame safety structure, the 2005 Legacy models will feature as standard equipment side impact air bags, new side curtain air bags and new intelligent dual-stage deployment front air bags.

Subaru designed the fourth-generation Legacy to express its more dynamic performance and nimbleness. The pronounced wedge body shape conveys a low and stable presence, accentuated by aerodynamic side ground effects and standard 17-inch alloy wheels on Legacy 2.5 GT and 16-inch alloy wheels on other Legacy models.

The wheelbase of the 2005 Legacy has been increased from 104.3 inches to 105.1 inches and overall length has been increased by just under two inches for the sedan and wagon models. The sedan registers a coefficient of drag (Cd) of 0.28 and the wagon 0.30. A functional hood scoop supplies outside air to the engine-mounted intercooler.

High-Performance Intercooled / Turbocharged Engine
The 2005 Legacy 2.5 GT is powered by an intercooled and turbocharged 2.5-liter 4-cylinder boxer engine featuring Active Valve Control System (AVCS) variable valve timing technology. The engine produces 250 horsepower @ 5,600 rpm and 250 lb-ft. of peak torque @ 3,600 rpm.

The 2005 Legacy 2.5 GT will offer a choice between a smooth-shifting 5-speed manual transmission or an all-new 5-speed electronic direct control automatic transmission with the SPORTSHIFT feature for manual control when desired. The driver can choose to shift manually using the console shift handle or shift buttons on the MOMO®-designed steering wheel.

Performance-Bred Chassis
A new, stiffer unitized body structure makes greater use of aluminum and high-strength steel, as well as advanced construction techniques including hydroforming and tailored-blank welding. Suspension, braking and steering have been optimized to complement the powertrain performance in Legacy 2.5 GT. The proven MacPherson type strut front suspension uses all new components, including aluminum lower L-arms that reduce unsprung weight. The multilink rear suspension attaches to a new, hydroformed steel sub-frame for added rigidity. A wider track and revised geometry enhance handling and stability.

A 4-wheel disc Anti-lock Brake System (ABS) with Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD) is standard equipment on all 2005 Legacy models. Legacy 2.5 GT features larger front brake rotors than other Legacy models, as well as ventilated rear discs (solid discs on other models). Legacy 2.5 GT models roll on standard 17 x 7-inch aluminum-alloy wheels with 215/45 R17 all-season tires. The rack-and-pinion steering system has been redesigned for quicker response, greater precision and improved feel.

Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive
Subaru offers three different Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive systems in the 2005 Legacy models, each tailored to the type of transmission. With the 5-speed manual transmission, the system uses a viscous-coupling locking center differential to distribute the power 50/50 front to rear. Slippage at either set of wheels will send more power to the other set of wheels. Legacy 2.5 GT models equipped with the optional 5-speed automatic transmission use a system called Variable Torque Distribution (VTD). A planetary center differential works with an electronically controlled continuously variable hydraulic transfer clutch to manage power distribution. The system normally sends more power to the rear wheels to enhance handling agility, and it continuously adjusts the power distribution in response to driving and road conditions.

Legacy 2.5i and Legacy 2.5i Limited models will offer an optional 4-speed automatic transmission, with an AWD system that uses an electronically managed continuously variable transfer clutch to actively control power distribution in response to driving conditions.

All-New Interior Designed for True Grand Touring
The new Legacy interior design integrates the entire area from the instrument panel and large center panel to the console storage box. The sporty new four-dial instrument panel features an electroluminescent LED (light-emitting diode) gauge display in Legacy 2.5 GT. Standard equipment for the 2005 Legacy 2.5 GT includes a dual-zone automatic climate control system, a combination digital clock and trip computer, performance-design front seats with 4-stage heating and heated exterior mirrors. The standard audio system includes a 120-watt AM/FM stereo, a 6-disc in-dash CD changer and six speakers.

Legacy 2.5 GT Limited models add leather-trimmed upholstery, an 8-way power driver's seat and a 4-way power passenger seat. A glass power moonroof is standard on all Legacy GT Limited and Legacy 2.5i Limited models. The dual-panel moonroof on wagon models provides a single large opening when the tilt-up front section and retracting rear section are opened.

Review these features, get detailed specs, and view newly released images at www.Need-Desire.com.

[Tin_pusher]

Uh, not that I'm into bubble bursting, but the odds that Subaru is monitoring this site are infinitesimal. The odds that they will react to anything written here are even smaller

Sorry, but you are wrong. There are quite a few companies that corportations pay big bucks to to find out what people are saying, and what they want. Be it cars, music, clothes etc. You'd be foolish not to. There are already 113 members here in a few short weeks. If even half of them buy a Legacy you are talking over 1.5 million $$.

[Tin_pusher]

Trinkets are nice but this is what it's all about IMO

I must disagree. When you start pushing $30k plus for a car, people expect certain "trinkets." If you want all out performance then peopl should buy the WRX. The loaded Legacy IMO is being marketed as an alternative to Lexus, Acura or Audi. And as such certain luxuries will be expected. Most people that buy performance cars care more about the day to day civility of the car, and not all out performance.

[PPower]

Uh, not that I'm into bubble bursting, but the odds that Subaru is monitoring this site are infinitesimal. The odds that they will react to anything written here are even smaller

Sorry, but you are wrong. There are quite a few companies that corportations pay big bucks to to find out what people are saying, and what they want. Be it cars, music, clothes etc. You'd be foolish not to. There are already 113 members here in a few short weeks. If even half of them buy a Legacy you are talking over 1.5 million $$.

If you want to be heard, go to www.edmunds.com and participate in chats there. A Subaru staff person from product planning is active on there, and that is probably the only place where comments are really monitored. Because of sheer size, nasioc may have some worth if they want to check on the enthusiasts opinions. However, most people participating in these forums are far from the average buyer. Edmunds has users who are much closer to the "norm".

[SUBE555]

One comment I didn't see noticed in this thread (or I skipped over) is that the details are to bring people in first to look at the car, the basicas of it. The option packs are the final details to be nailed down, and we'll see how they do that, but in case you didn't notice, those details, are just that, details, and very few are given in any aspect of the car. Right down to the weight I have yet to see final specs on that even.

Preston is very right on the Edmunds.com deal. That is the board they officially use to gauge interest. Most other boards are just for entertainment as I was told by a rep. If you have questions, comments, concerns for SOA, please go to their site and email them or get out the word processor and printer and type one out. I have gotten good responses on the email end, therefore need not go to the other step.

The only real option that was of interest to me was the HIDs as I've been trying to find a light with the intensity I desire, Silverstars have nice output, last set: est 11 months. Now onto trying Sylvania XVs. I love the HIDs in my buddys STi, but a good set of high-output projectors would do hopefully.

[gtguy]

Uh, not that I'm into bubble bursting, but the odds that Subaru is monitoring this site are infinitesimal. The odds that they will react to anything written here are even smaller

Sorry, but you are wrong. There are quite a few companies that corportations pay big bucks to to find out what people are saying, and what they want. Be it cars, music, clothes etc. You'd be foolish not to. There are already 113 members here in a few short weeks. If even half of them buy a Legacy you are talking over 1.5 million $$.

Subaru has only just begun to monitor (sort of) NASIOC, a much older, significantly larger site. Like it or not, we (hairy-chested enthusiasts) aren't the people on whom Subaru is relying upon to reach its sales goals of 250,000 cars (across all lines) per annum. We are, for the most part, already Subaru owners, which means that selling to us is simply cannibalizing from other Subaru sales, rather than reaching the conquest customer, a move-over buyer from another marque.

I know it's easy to think that places like this matter, and they do to the participants, but a place such as this one, while fun, has about as much chance of influencing SOA and the Legacy future design as I have of being able to fly to the moon, assisted by bean burritos. :lol:

Kevin

[Deer Killer]

Steering wheel instruments lit up?

That's just a dumb idea. The point of the steering wheel buttons is so that you can do things by feel without looking. There's no need to light up the interior like a christmas tree (i.e. the new TL). I'd like to see the road at night.

But I'm glad it's at least mentioned. All the USDM photo's I've seen have no steering wheel controls at all. Unless you're just talking about the stalks.

[Tin_pusher]

That's just a dumb idea.

Actually it's not a dumb idea, it's a safe idea and almost all cars over 25k have them. These aren't bright lights, they just help you to see what you are doing instead of fumbling around in the dark to turn on the cruise, or roll the window up. It's a cheap omission in a car that costs $30k.

The point of the steering wheel buttons is so that you can do things by feel without looking.

Well maybe you work with Helen Keller, or have a guide dog but I generally like to see things that I want to adjust. By your logic nothing inside the car should be lit. You know where the stereo is right? No need to light that. You know where the climate control is, so no need to light that since you can just feel around for it until you guess what temp you want.

I think you get the point.

[Deer Killer]

Actually it's not a dumb idea, it's a safe idea and almost all cars over 25k have them. These aren't bright lights, they just help you to see what you are doing instead of fumbling around in the dark to turn on the cruise, or roll the window up. It's a cheap omission in a car that costs $30k.


So do you think you will learn where the controls are after a few days? weeks? years? never? After the first day or so I wouldn't need to look anymore, and I wouldn't want to.

The point of the steering wheel buttons is so that you can do things by feel without looking.

Well maybe you work with Helen Keller, or have a guide dog but I generally like to see things that I want to adjust. By your logic nothing inside the car should be lit. You know where the stereo is right? No need to light that. You know where the climate control is, so no need to light that since you can just feel around for it until you guess what temp you want.

I think you get the point.

Well, in the perfect interior yes. This is what the king of interiors - audi - does. They have a team devoted to such pursuits http://www.audiworld.com/news/02/haptics/content.shtml

Here you see your picture of masculine helen keller:
http://www.audiworld.com/news/02/haptics/content2.shtml


Really, When's the last time you looked to find the turn signal stalk and then read the text or the arrows indication which way to push it in order to activate turn signals? If I got in the passenger seat and I saw you doing that, I'd assume you've been either living in a hole for most of you life, or are severely mentally retarded.

This reminds me of a story, there was a kid that went to my high school that was in the "special" class. However he did get a license and a car, and one day he wrapped it around a tree - but for our comedic benefit there was a passenger who recalls the situation as: The windows were fogged up, so he bent over and looked real close at the center console "Gotta turn on da defogga!" BAM!

Well for the next 2-3 years no window could ever get fogged up in my car pool without someone saying "Gotta turn on da defogga!" (You imagine the appropriate voice)

[Tin_pusher]

If I got in the passenger seat and I saw you doing that, I'd assume you've been either living in a hole for most of you life, or are severely mentally retarded.

You've been here for 5 minutes and you are calling me retarded. Pretty damn sad. Is it possible for you to engage in a debate without resulting to name calling?

Really, When's the last time you looked to find the turn signal stalk and then read the text or the arrows indication which way to push it in order to activate turn signals?

Well here's a keen observation for you. The turn signals on all U.S. vehicles are in the same place and operate the same way. The window switches and cruise control are not standardized.

This reminds me of a story, there was a kid that went to my high school that was in the "special" class. However he did get a license and a car, and one day he wrapped it around a tree - but for our comedic benefit there was a passenger who recalls the situation as: The windows were fogged up, so he bent over and looked real close at the center console "Gotta turn on da defogga!" BAM

Thanks for that truly pertinent heartwarming story, it brought a tear to my eye.

[gtguy]

All the USDM photo's I've seen have no steering wheel controls at all. Unless you're just talking about the stalks.

That's what I thought...

As far as the flaming and bickering, let's leave that stuff for NASIOC, if we could, please. This site has been, even when members disagree, positive and congenial. Flaming and name-calling is, as a matter of face, why many of us came to this site from NASIOC.

Just my .02...

Kevin

[Deer Killer]

If I got in the passenger seat and I saw you doing that, I'd assume you've been either living in a hole for most of you life, or are severely mentally retarded.

You've been here for 5 minutes and you are calling me retarded. Pretty damn sad. Is it possible for you to engage in a debate without resulting to name calling?



I don't need to, because if you properly read my post, I didn't.

[Dr. Zevil]

All the USDM photo's I've seen have no steering wheel controls at all. Unless you're just talking about the stalks.

That's what I thought...

As far as the flaming and bickering, let's leave that stuff for NASIOC, if we could, please. This site has been, even when members disagree, positive and congenial. Flaming and name-calling is, as a matter of face, why many of us came to this site from NASIOC.

Just my .02...

Kevin

I agree. There is no reason to be talking about retards and such. Everyone has an opinion. Personally I think that if there were controls on the wheel that they should have a subtle backlight. Nothing that "lights up the cabin" but enough that if you weren't familiar with the car that you could negotiate the controls. It's not so much about when you drive the car, but when others drive that is the issue I think.

[AMT4SWA]

JANUARY 22nd, 2004...OUR FIRST OFFICIAL SPAT!!! :o

This took much longer then I thought it would take... :P

I do know that I like the steering wheel buttons to be lighted, but it is not something I need to operate the car...just for the looks of it is my only reason. If they are lit properly and the design is good, then the steering wheel lighting can add a very sophisticated up-scale look to an interior.

[gtguy]

Alright, let's end this. I'm looking at my '05 Legacy brochure, and the steering wheel on the MT version has no, I repeat, no controls of any kind on the steering wheel. There is a horn, but that's a big ol' button that comprises the center of the steering wheel. Presumably, that wouldn't need any lighting.

:lol:

Now can we all go back to being friends again, because in the figurative sense, we are ALL retards, for getting this freaked out/geeked up/giddy with anticipation about a car. :D :lol:

Kevin

[AMT4SWA]

Yes...it is the 5 spd AT models that have the "UP" and "Down" + or - symbols on the steering wheel for "SportShift" manual shifting. Volume controls and maybe SEEK/SCAN features will come with the steering wheels in the future with maybe a highline 3.0L H6 edition.

[Tin_pusher]

I don't need to, because if you properly read my post, I didn't.

Apology accepted. :) Can I have a hug?

[gtguy]

Yes...it is the 5 spd AT models that have the "UP" and "Down" + or - symbols on the steering wheel for "SportShift" manual shifting. Volume controls and maybe SEEK/SCAN features will come with the steering wheels in the future with maybe a highline 3.0L H6 edition.

I can see the "Up" or "Down" arrows on the steering wheel for AT versions of the GT. I cannot, however, see radio controls being on the steering wheel. But maybe I'm just crazy. Once those brand managers get to work... :lol:

The other thing is, until we know for a fact that the shifting controls on the steering wheel are not backlit, as in 'I've sat in one and they are not backlit," let's all agree to chill, yes?

Kevin

[PPower]

in the figurative sense, we are ALL retards, for getting this freaked out/geeked up/giddy with anticipation about a car. :D :lol:

Kevin

On top of that, "Subaru" isn't a common car line to get so geeked up about either. :lol: We are but retards in the midst of car geeks.

[SUBE555]

OOOO, an Ubergeek! I wanna be one of dos guys! :P

What other company offers AWD with performance and fun to drive with nicely laid out decent interiors for such a good value? Noone! Its the best value on the market as far as I'm concerned when looking at AWD, a decent price, a drivers car, (an nice sized aftermarket ;) ), and more.

[team23jordan]

That's just a dumb idea.

Actually it's not a dumb idea, it's a safe idea and almost all cars over 25k have them. These aren't bright lights, they just help you to see what you are doing instead of fumbling around in the dark to turn on the cruise, or roll the window up. It's a cheap omission in a car that costs $30k.

The point of the steering wheel buttons is so that you can do things by feel without looking.

Well maybe you work with Helen Keller, or have a guide dog but I generally like to see things that I want to adjust. By your logic nothing inside the car should be lit. You know where the stereo is right? No need to light that. You know where the climate control is, so no need to light that since you can just feel around for it until you guess what temp you want.

I think you get the point.
my mom's lincoln aviator has that
its really helps a lot when i'm driving at night time and try to turn the volumn up or down or turn on heat or stuff like that its helpful
and a lot of people who has been in my car liked it a lot

[team23jordan]

tin pusher
you gotta check out the northwest region :)
and do you know any dealer in OR that usually sells subaru for little bit over invoice??

[Tin_pusher]

Okay Jordan, I'll stop by there too. I've never owned a Subuaru, I have a Ford Explorer right now. When I start seriously looking I'll let ya know.

[Kuth678]

I think a lot of people, including me, may not want HIDs.

Yeah they're brighter, but the sharp cutoff of light can be dangerous. You go down a hill and you're 100% blind to anything on the up side when your lights are below it. Halogens, while dimmer, tend to have less of a sharp cut off.

And those things are VERY bright. I've been blinded by them many times when a car that has them is coming at me.

Just my opinion. Feel free to flame ;)

[SUBE555]

Personally I like the HIDs with the brighter/different light. I've learned how to deal with them just fine, just do what they taught us in drivers ed years back, watch the line on your right and you're fine. Having it an OPTION isn't all that bad.

[Gumby]

I think a lot of people, including me, may not want HIDs.

Yeah they're brighter, but the sharp cutoff of light can be dangerous. You go down a hill and you're 100% blind to anything on the up side when your lights are below it. Halogens, while dimmer, tend to have less of a sharp cut off.

And those things are VERY bright. I've been blinded by them many times when a car that has them is coming at me.

Just my opinion. Feel free to flame ;)

I agree, IMO a good halogen set-up is all that's really required, HID's have become a status symbol letting other people know that you're in an expensive car at nighttime.

[team23jordan]

i think reason why legacy doesn't have HID is that
HID is gonna be illegal next year(?)
that's what i heard from my friends
i think subaru doesn't wanna deal with it....
it will be AWESOME if they do have HID
but if they dont...they can officially lick my butt

is JDM version have HID??

[SUBE555]

Jordan, I'm not exactly sure where you get your info, but please post it if its available as I've heard nothing of the like.

Does that mean all cars with HID now would have to change lamps or just be grandfathered then?

Personally I don't buy it until I see some official word on it. Its one of those things that some people would probably say HIDs kill people, they don't kill people, same deal as Montana, take the limits off and the traffic deaths will skyrocket (I think they actually went down and then back up when reinitiated speed laws.) To me they're less annoying than the 10 million motorists who drive around constantly with tipped lenses and the high-beams on all the time. :roll:

Maybe I'd just have to put about 10 Hellas or Cibees on the front of my car then. Will that help my status symbol or would that put me into the rice category? :D

[gtguy]

Hey yeah! Now this place is more like NASIOC. I was wondering what took so long. :lol:

Kevin

[questmgd]

There was a news bit I read a while ago that mentioned the banning of all aftermarket HIDs. Since it involved aftermarket parts I didn't really pay too much attention. The factory HIDs will be legal. Anyways, the dispersal patterns of factory HIDs have been improving leading to less blinding of other drivers, and lighted/unlighted patterns.

I have HIDs in the last few cars, and I would rather have HIDs in my future cars. I'm sure regular lights can be designed halogens will work well, also, but a IMO a well-designed xenon will be better than a well-designed halogen. Anyways, the price for factory installation of HIDs have decreased so much, I don't see why they wouldn't add HIDs as standard.

[gtguy]

There was a news bit I read a while ago that mentioned the banning of all aftermarket HIDs. Since it involved aftermarket parts I didn't really pay too much attention. The factory HIDs will be legal. Anyways, the dispersal patterns of factory HIDs have been improving leading to less blinding of other drivers, and lighted/unlighted patterns.

I have HIDs in the last few cars, and I would rather have HIDs in my future cars. I'm sure regular lights can be designed halogens will work well, also, but a IMO a well-designed xenon will be better than a well-designed halogen. Anyways, the price for factory installation of HIDs have decreased so much, I don't see why they wouldn't add HIDs as standard.

But "better" in what way? You see better in inclement weather with halogens than with HIDs, for example, because the light spectrum has less cancellation effects with a halogen bulb. And at bulb replacement time, the cost is dramatically less with halogen technology. Sure, you don't get that fancy, upscale bluish-white shine, but the lack of HIDs isn't going to be particularly critical to the car. That is, a purchasing decision won't be made or not made because of HIDs.

Besides, there is so much the Legacy GT will have, that by the time someone gets to the headlights, they won't care. HIDs are, like 6-speed gearboxes, mostly hype and marketing. In Europe, the quantity of light thrown off by HIDs, compared to a reflector system, is significant. But compared to a nice projector halogen system, it's not so significant. Plus, they have REAL dark in Europe. Driving around the south of France at night, you just forget how much ambient light we have in most places in the U.S.

Kevin

[Tin_pusher]

My friend has a TL and I love the HID lights. To me it has nothing to do with status, just safety. And believe me, there are plent of people in the US that live where it is really dark!

[Tide]

I would get HID if it were available. Im most interested in DVD Nav though. I've already started researching aftermarket to see what I may do to make it happen.

[questmgd]

Sorry about the vague "better" comment about halogen vs. HID. I should've said brighter with stronger contrast in very dark situations. It may also be my bias because the only halogens that I have driven in the last 8 years or so have been domestic rental cars, and have been rather disappointed with their performance.

[gtguy]

I agree, Quest...domestics are pretty appalling when it comes to lighting the road. I was in a friend's Pontiac, and thought he didn't have the lights on! :lol:

Tinpusher, I'm not saying that people in the U.S. don't live where it can get really dark. I'm simply saying that a well-designed halogen system doesn't give up much to an HID setup.

Kevin

[Dr. Zevil]

My WRX headlights suck ballz.. If I was going to get a GT I would have bought some EDM projectors and plugged them in. Suppose to be a huge improvement.

[Gumby]

My WRX headlights suck ballz.

Get yourself some Silverstars Dr. Z, they make a noticeable difference. Both Heads and Fogs and then turn the adjustment screw on the Fogs to adjust them up a bit and they add a nice fill. HID's not required with this set-up.

[Dr. Zevil]

I probably would do that if I was going to keep the car :lol: Plus it was just my excuse to buy those beautiful EDM projector headlights. I was drooling over those things the moment I saw them. I could never quite rationalize that purchase though. :D

[SUBE555]

The only problem with silverstars is they tend to wear out too quick. Mine burned out within 10-12 months. They run too hot. They didn't have any more in stock where I got mine so I got a set of XtraVisions for less than half the cost. Seen pretty close to the Silverstars from the little night-driving so far, but anything is WAY better than the stock headlights in the older Legs. :)

[gtguy]

The upgrade bulb of choice for 9007 is the Philips HiVisibility. Markedly better than the SilverStars in my WRX, when I installed a bunch of different bulbs to see which gave the best/most light.

Kevin

[SUBE555]

Cool, how do they rate for price, longevity? What color is the light in comparison to OE? More yellow of white/silver, bluish???

[gtguy]

Cool, how do they rate for price, longevity? What color is the light in comparison to OE? More yellow of white/silver, bluish???

The light is whiter, with no blue, which means they don't disappear in inclement weather like the SilverStars. :lol: Keep in mind also that the well-reviewed SilverStars are the Osram (European) version, which don't have the blingy blue coating that the kids over here want, to mimic that HID look. USDM SilverStars get the bluing, which reduces the effectiveness of the light they throw out.

I just installed them when I was testing the various bulbs, Sube. I don't know about longevity, but Philips stuff, if the VisionPlus bulbs I am using are any indication, are fine. I'm on a year with mine, and no problems whatsoever. Price-wise, I think they're less expensive than SilverStars.

Kevin

[SUBE555]

Sounds like my next bulbs. :)

[PPower]

Hopefully your next bulbs will be of a different car. :D

[AMT4SWA]

I think I will upgrade to 4 GE 4559X "Landing Light" lamps from any Boeing Aircraft to put in a 4 light hood top rally type cluster...that should do it! :o

[SUBE555]

I'll just take the lamp off a helicopter search light. I think a mil candle power should be CLOSE to sufficient. :D

[Gumby]

There's more info on this page than what I could find on the whole of I-Club when I went to upgrade my bulbs. Cheers!

Had the Silverstars for 4 months, will try the Philips variety when they go.

[autobahned]

I also saw the pic on the brochure and found the front bumper look different than the Japanese version, I hope they could make it like that...

[gtguy]

I also saw the pic on the brochure and found the front bumper look different than the Japanese version, I hope they could make it like that...

Quit posting pictures of my car! Keep doing that and everyone will want one! :lol: :lol:

Seriously, where did you find that pic? I want to use it as wallpaper.

Kevin

[autobahned]

Seriously, where did you find that pic? I want to use it as wallpaper.

Kevin

Sorry Kevin, I think I browse too many sites to look for the new Legacy, so I don't really remember where the pic from, but you could try www.subdriven.com

[fan42025]

Whinge, whinge, whinge.....

Need more options? Buy a BMW. No such thing as a free lunch. EOM.

[Drift Monkey]

Whinge, whinge, whinge.....

Need more options? Buy a BMW. No such thing as a free lunch. EOM.

:raisedead:

[MtnSub]

If you don't want a wagon and can spend $40k, I think the 330iX AWD sedan is a superior choice. If you want an AWD Sport Wagon, for any amount of money, the Leg GT is the best game in town today, IMO. If you are sedan person and are looking at G30s, Hondas, you have different values/needs than a Subaru buyer. All good cars depending on your need/wants.

Bashing Subaru for not offering all creature features in first year release seems out of perspective to me. BMW and other companies release new cars that do not have best cosmetics or options in first year and add them over time. Suby did offer TONS of new style and performance in the new LegGT and I am sure we will see the car guilded with each model year.

From a competitive marketing point of view, it is not enough to say we made great progress over "our" last car, you must challenge the competition in some way that makes your product stand out. Suby price / performance and wagon option are the unique factors that sets Suby above competition. Suby still has a way to go to match Honda/Acura/BMW/Audi in the creature feature catagories, but they came close enough in this first release to get this BMW customer to switch to a Leg GT wagon. Performance, great looking wagon, close on comfort features, okay, I wil compromise some creature feature for performance wagon.

[racerdave]

What MtnSub said. :D

[John M]

http://moojohn.com/stealth/oldpost.gif

This thread was almost a year ago, long before the car appeared in showrooms or even in "coming soon" articles in magazines.

[racerdave]

LOL

Well, it is Halloween (almost)

[SchnellerGT]

Agree that the Legacy lacks options for the price. So, either they need to introduce these options or drop the price to $25K (MSRP) for a GT LTD.

It's a shame you can configure a Mazda3S with more options for $10K less.

[gtguy]

Agree that the Legacy lacks options for the price. So, either they need to introduce these options or drop the price to $25K (MSRP) for a GT LTD.

It's a shame you can configure a Mazda3S with more options for $10K less.

Yes, but it's WWD, and you still have to put a motor in it. :lol: Seriously, though, Subaru was all about making the GT a driver's car value first. The Limited might seem overpriced, but in context of the GT, it's about right. As I always say, find another $30K car that can run with it. There will be $30K cars that have more creature comforts, for sure. But if that's your bag, Subaru isn't on your shopping list anyhow.

Kevin

[Tide]

Wow, great thread. Can't believe I never commented on it. Where is tin_pusher these days anyways.... ah, the early days.

[fjork_duf]

Well... last time I checked to get an audi of equal performance to the legacy GT you would have to buy an S4, and one with all the options people here want for 30k would be 52k or so. So I think I would give up some small lighting and HIDs to save 22k. I think the 0-60 of the audi is around 5.5 seconds??? isn't that about the same for the legacy?

[SUBE555]

This is an old thread indeed! The last 3 posts are so true too.

Okay, just had to post for the heck of it. :D

[area 51]

Personally, I paid around 25k for a manual trans with cloth interior and I have no regrets.
I didn't care for the sport shift auto that much or the leather so I saved around $2500 right away. Sunroof ? No thanks... My salesman said the nav was due to come out in 2006 so we'll see. Onstar would be nice. I don't like headlights personally. (Blinding people and being blinded by others is crazy.) My point is, for 25k it's hard to find a sporty AWD with some luxury to it. In a car I Like. Audi S8 would be my choice for 80k - so many nice expensive cars.
- wish it coulda had... - heads up display , infra-red night illumination , seperate set of dedicated winter tires and wheels , Onstar , Lo-jack , armor plating and a million dollars in the trunk. all for under 30k.

[fan42025]

All I can say is the GT is really in a class of its own because it's hard to find an equivalent nice looking car with the performance, handling and the features, all at about the same price. Subaru done a great job, finally. Not perfect but what car is? Furthermore, if we were living in Japan, the apparent lack of options would not be an issue. This would definitely make it the best car ever given the price. It's no wonder it won the car of the year award there. Those with money to burn of course wouldn't care and buy their Mercs, BMWs, Audis, etc., but all you get really is snob value - and that actually is high on their list of priorities.

[danimal]

who cares about the headlights or nav? where are u gonna find a better car out there for under 30K? yeah, an acura or audi for the same price may have the extra amenities, but aren't legacy drivers more interested in kicking ass in the quarter mile?

by the way, anyone interested in buying my 03 dodge srt-4? under 28,00 miles, excellent condition, black w/chrome rims. $16000 obo.

[Bob N]

I must disagree. When you start pushing $30k plus for a car, people expect certain "trinkets." If you want all out performance then peopl should buy the WRX. The loaded Legacy IMO is being marketed as an alternative to Lexus, Acura or Audi. And as such certain luxuries will be expected. Most people that buy performance cars care more about the day to day civility of the car, and not all out performance.
Who paid $30,000? I paid $26,000 and honestly these lights are as bright as they need to be. Hell, I have a 97 Subaru SUS with the clouded over plastic lights and at night the difference between these two is like night and day. I agree a Nav system is a nice option but I would have very little use for it. I'd rather have a sport package (18" wheels, 235/40 tires) option than pay the extra for a nav system. Oh, it's not an alternative to the Lexus or Acura, it's marketed as an alternative to BMW and Audi (hence AWD). 330ix, a4 3.0 quattro.

[awdG35killer]

Who paid $30,000? I paid $26,000 and honestly these lights are as bright as they need to be....


:( i paid $30k AFTER tax and 2.9% financing :(

[avengador1]

I don't think I would want HIDs even if they were an option. I wouldn't want some ricer trying to steal them of my car to put them on his fart canned POS.;) I think the factory headlights work very good.

[subadonk]

I'd like to have a few more luxuries, but I think Subie took care of the most important ones. It is relatively light weight, has 250 hp + the torque to match, benign looks, and a quality interior w/ heated seats, an in-dash CD changer, and dual zone climate control. It'd be damn nice to have some AUX ability to hook up a portable MP3 player, as well as drivers seat memory (once you have it, you really appreciate it). I can live without NAV or HID (although I'd probably pay for them if they were available).

One thing that I don't understand is the lack of fold down seats on the sedan. I'm not too concerned, tho, as I'm all about the wagon...

While Audi and BMW offer most of these options, be prepared to pay through the nose. And none of them offer an equivalent powertrain with the exception of the S4 -- another league all together, price and refinement wise.

[Tide]

Old thread needs locking, as all comments are off topic from the original point.