How much $$$ for 17" snows?

[UrQ]

I've always put H rated snow tires (like Vredstein) on my Audis. The H rating seems to offer a firmer compound that still provides some performance driving in dry conditions.
A set of 16" usually run $600+. Has anyone priced or bought some 17" snows for the Legacy GT yet? Will the bolt pattern on the GT take 16" wheels from other Subie models?
It's still warm in CO but I'm hoping to get them cheap before the winter driving madness hits the masses.

[gtguy]

For just the tires, price will be about the same, $600+ per set for something nice. The 17" size limits matters. For example, my preferred WS-series Blizzaks aren't available in the Legacy's size. And Nokian devotees will have to use 225-45-17, Nokian's available size.

Kevin

[UrQ]

I didn't realize that limitation was in place. I'll have to start shopping early. Does Blizzak make an H rated now?
Todd

[gtguy]

I didn't realize that limitation was in place. I'll have to start shopping early. Does Blizzak make an H rated now?
Todd

The LM-series Blizzak is the available tire in the GT's size. And remember, you can't go minus-1 because of the size of the brakes.

Kevin

[IwannaSportSedan]

In the other tire update thread, I mentioned that the LM series snows, in stock size for the legacy, are $143 per tire, at tirerack.com

That is if you are going to put them on stock wheels. If you are going to get other 17" wheels, then that will, of course, add cost.

Incidentally, LM22 Blizzaks are within a couple of dollars of the Bridgestone RE730 summer tires that I would also want for a legacy GT.

[outahere]

The LM-series Blizzak is the available tire in the GT's size. And remember, you can't go minus-1 because of the size of the brakes.
Kevin

IIRC, the Dunlop Winter Sport M3 is also available in 215/45x17.

[scubie02]

the only thing showing up at tirerack that fits are the lm-22's, which are pretty pricey. I was disappointed to see that nokian and the dunlops don't seem to come in that size.

I'm assuing my 16'ers from my wrx won't fit because of the larger brakes on the GT? Just my luck--had a brand new set of nokians on a complete extra set of stock wrx wheels that I just got last year...*sigh*...anybody need winter's for their wrx...?

[outahere]

Just checked the Dunlop web site, and they do manufacture a V rated Winter Sport M3 in 215/45x17.

[UrQ]

16 inches don't fit, they tell me at discount tire. As posted above, it seems the rotors are too large. Sounds like snows this year are going to cost me. :cry:

[gtguy]

Hey, looky what I found. A press release from Bridgestone, announcing a selection of new sizes added to the WS-series Blizzak line, including...ta daaaa! 215-45-17. Woot!

For anyone who hasn't experienced the wonder of the WS-series Blizzak in the snow, it's some kind of party. You can do 4,000 rpm launches in your turbo Subaru, in 6" of snow, and the car just takes off. They're an amazing tire.

In the dry, they're kind of squirmy, but upping the tire pressure takes care of some of that. You will, however, of necessity, have to bring your speed down. But if you want a snow tire, like I do, and don't want to fart around, get a SNOW tire.

The Nokian Hakka 2s are available in 225-45-17, for people who might find their way to an inexpensive 7.5" set of winter wheels for the Leggy.

Kevin

[DrGT]

The new Nokian RSI is also available in 205-50-17, which is almost the right size (+ 1.8%) and is better in snow (narrower and taller).

[scubie02]

Just checked the Dunlop web site, and they do manufacture a V rated Winter Sport M3 in 215/45x17.

Hmm, you should email this to tirerack, so they carry it before winter rolls around!

[outahere]

Pirelli also manufactures at least two winter tires in 215/45x17, the SnowSport-240 (V rated) and the IceSport (Q rated). In this same size, Michelin manufactures the H rated Pilot Alpin. All these tires are over $100 each.

[outahere]

.....For anyone who hasn't experienced the wonder of the WS-series Blizzak in the snow, it's some kind of party. You can do 4,000 rpm launches in your turbo Subaru, in 6" of snow, and the car just takes off. They're an amazing tire. Kevin

How many miles can you put on the Blizzak WS50 tires before the multicell layer is gone,and the fantastic ice traction disappears?

[gtguy]

.....For anyone who hasn't experienced the wonder of the WS-series Blizzak in the snow, it's some kind of party. You can do 4,000 rpm launches in your turbo Subaru, in 6" of snow, and the car just takes off. They're an amazing tire. Kevin

How many miles can you put on the Blizzak WS50 tires before the multicell layer is gone,and the fantastic ice traction disappears?

The magic was going by the fourth season, but it's about tire time at that point, anyhow.

Kevin

[UrQ]

Thanks guys, these are some great tire choices!

[moriarty]

FYI - Nokian WR is available in 215/45-17:

http://www.nokian.com/passengercars_product_en?product=610503&name=NOKIA N+WR

And considering the amount of dry roads I also have to drive in the winter, it's where I'm currently leaning.

- Dan

[racerdave]

These are available in 205/50/17 too...
http://www.nokian.com/passengercars_product_en?product=610499&name=NOKIA N+HAKKAPELIITTA+RSi#

http://www.nokian.com/files/nkr/ha_talvi/hkplrsi_tuote_iso.jpg

and this:
http://www.nokian.com/passengercars_product_en?product=610495&name=NOKIA N+HAKKAPELIITTA+4#

http://www.nokian.com/files/nkr/ha_talvi/hkpl4_tuote_iso.jpg

And, as indicated before, this one's available in both 205/50 and 215/45
http://www.nokian.com/passengercars_product_en?product=610503&name=NOKIA N+WR

http://www.nokian.com/files/nkr/ha_talvi/wr_tuote_iso.jpg

[moriarty]

Where does everyone get their Nokian tires? The place I used to go no longer carries them.

[bigbadboss101]

GTguy, where do you live? I am in Western Canada and we do need snow for our RWD cars, and some FWD cars. I had Bridgestones RE92 on my 02 Maxima and I cannot stop nor spin on start up. I got a set of LM22, which I think is a bit higher in performance that the WS. I believe I will go with WS cuz of the better snow grip. I have heard good things about the Nokian.

Now with the Legacy, do you need snow tires, or would a set of nice M/S be good enough?

[gtguy]

GTguy, where do you live? I am in Western Canada and we do need snow for our RWD cars, and some FWD cars. I had Bridgestones RE92 on my 02 Maxima and I cannot stop nor spin on start up. I got a set of LM22, which I think is a bit higher in performance that the WS. I believe I will go with WS cuz of the better snow grip. I have heard good things about the Nokian.

Now with the Legacy, do you need snow tires, or would a set of nice M/S be good enough?

I'm in the Chicago area, and when we get snow, we get snow. Further, I live in Highland Park, a northern suburb, where when they say "scattered lake effect snow," they mean "in Highland Park." :lol:

And I'm not one of those shrinking violets when it comes to snow. When it's snowing, I'm not really into slowing down very much. With the WS-series Blizzaks, you don't have to. The LMs are speed-rated, unlike the WS Blizzaks, so keep that in mind.

I'm also considering the Nokian WRs, which I didn't realize came in stock Legacy size.

Kevin

[outahere]

Where does everyone get their Nokian tires? The place I used to go no longer carries them.

etires.com is a Nokian dealer. I have never dealt with them, so cannot vouch for their service and prices. I wish TireRack would carry Nokian (and Toyo), but they probably don't want to antagonize Bridgestone.

[outahere]

.........I'm in the Chicago area, and when we get snow, we get snow. Further, I live in Highland Park, a northern suburb, where when they say "scattered lake effect snow," they mean "in Highland Park." :lol:

And I'm not one of those shrinking violets when it comes to snow. When it's snowing, I'm not really into slowing down very much. With the WS-series Blizzaks, you don't have to. The LMs are speed-rated, unlike the WS Blizzaks, so keep that in mind.

I'm also considering the Nokian WRs, which I didn't realize came in stock Legacy size.

Kevin

I take it you do not find the lower ground clearance of the GT wagon, relative to the Outback, to be a significant detriment in deep snow?

[outahere]

.........The LM-series Blizzak is the available tire in the GT's size. And remember, you can't go minus-1 because of the size of the brakes. Kevin

Bridgestone announced in June that the Blizzak LM22 is being replaced by the LM25 (V,H, and T speed ratings), and the LM18 is being replaced by the LM20. Both of these new tires are said to benefit from improved computer simulation of snow traction and wet traction.

[gtguy]

.........I'm in the Chicago area, and when we get snow, we get snow. Further, I live in Highland Park, a northern suburb, where when they say "scattered lake effect snow," they mean "in Highland Park." :lol:

And I'm not one of those shrinking violets when it comes to snow. When it's snowing, I'm not really into slowing down very much. With the WS-series Blizzaks, you don't have to. The LMs are speed-rated, unlike the WS Blizzaks, so keep that in mind.

I'm also considering the Nokian WRs, which I didn't realize came in stock Legacy size.

Kevin

I take it you do not find the lower ground clearance of the GT wagon, relative to the Outback, to be a significant detriment in deep snow?

Naaaah. My Legacy GT wagon on DMS Golds was lower, and with WS Blizzaks it was like a snow plow. I still remember a big storm we had in Evanston one year. I came up the alley, with snow washing over the hood of the car. It was awesome. I stopped, backed into the garage (up a slight incline) and shut the car off. A neighbor who was digging out his Ford Explorer, said incredulously, "What kind of car is that?" :lol:

Kevin

[gtguy]

.........The LM-series Blizzak is the available tire in the GT's size. And remember, you can't go minus-1 because of the size of the brakes. Kevin

Bridgestone announced in June that the Blizzak LM22 is being replaced by the LM25 (V,H, and T speed ratings), and the LM18 is being replaced by the LM20. Both of these new tires are said to benefit from improved computer simulation of snow traction and wet traction.

That would be cool. Hopefully, reviews will be out before it's time to buy snows.

Kevin

[outahere]

Naaaah. My Legacy GT wagon on DMS Golds was lower, and with WS Blizzaks it was like a snow plow. I still remember a big storm we had in Evanston one year. I came up the alley, with snow washing over the hood of the car. It was awesome. I stopped, backed into the garage (up a slight incline) and shut the car off. A neighbor who was digging out his Ford Explorer, said incredulously, "What kind of car is that?" :lol:

Kevin

Wow, funny and amazing story. :D


Here is a link to more on the LM25 and LM20 tires:
http://www.bridgestone-eu.com/articles.asp?ID=55914

[praedet]

Completely off topic for a moment...

As someone who does a lot of "computer simulations" like the ones done on those tires, it is amazing how often those simulations are used these days. I work with aircraft oriented stuff where it might be expected. It still amazes me to hear about tires, sunglasses, exhaust pieces, etc. going through similar testing. I really need to look for these jobs where I could make real money....

Back on topic, I am a major fan of the Nokian WRs unless you are driving in deep snow 25-50% of the year. Some deep snow, a lot of plowed snow, and wet/dry winter roads are the perfect playground for the WRs.

Ted

[outahere]

Bridgestone refers to their new computer simulations as "snow share force simulation" and "edge pressure simulation". Not exactly self explanatory.

[praedet]

I would guess that they use a finite element analysis for the "edge pressure simulation," which is used mainly by mechanical engineers, and some CFD (computational fluid dynamics) for the "snow share force simulation," which is used mainly by aeronautical enginners.

Ted

[gtguy]

Ach...well, at least I can provide some new information. Apparently, as near as can be gleaned from Babelfish, this is a replacement for the Hakka Q, with an emphasis on non-snow performance as well as snow performance.

A Russian magazine did a thorough test, and liked the RSi quite a lot, and that was on a Saab 9-5, which doesn't have AWD.

As we all know, the Hakka Q is a legendary hunk of rubber.

Compared to the Blizzaks, the Nokian might be a better choice. Once the magic multicell Bridgestone compound wears down, you're left with an all-season tire. Nokians retain the same driving characteristics throughout the life of the tire.

Hmmmm.

Kevin

[racerdave]

Sorry Kev... I guess I was a quickdraw on the "repost" smiley. :)

With the heavily siped hakkas, I didn't find wear to be all that much better than the Blizzaks, to be honest. My wife had the Q's on her car, and they lasted 2 seasons, I think. Now, we didn't have a lot of snow those winters, and she does not treat them more gingerly in the corners in the dry, so that may have compounded the wear.

The Old School Hakas (NR09s, NR10s) definitely wore better. I'm not sure the new ones do all that great in the real world.

And by the time you've worn through the multcell portion of the Blizzak, the effective tread depth isn't so effective anyway.

And this comes from a die-hard Hakka guy... I've had them on all my cars since about 87.

But after seeing my wife's Q's wear more quickly than I expected, I went with Blizzaks. They're definitely good tires.

Now, when I get the LGT in about a month, I'm not sure which way I'll go. It'll probably come down to a coin toss, because I really don't think there's that much to differentiate the two (Hakka's and Blizzaks), despite what the literature says.

[outahere]

....A Russian magazine did a thorough test, and liked the RSi quite a lot, and that was on a Saab 9-5, which doesn't have AWD.........Kevin

As an added benefit, the Nokian RSi has canola oil as one of its ingredients. Wonder how the tire smells! :D :)

In the Russian test, what other tires were tested against the RSi?

[gtguy]

....A Russian magazine did a thorough test, and liked the RSi quite a lot, and that was on a Saab 9-5, which doesn't have AWD.........Kevin

As an added benefit, the Nokian RSi has canola oil as one of its ingredients. Wonder how the tire smells! :D :)

In the Russian test, what other tires were tested against the RSi?

Seemed to be the RSi by its lonesome, but it also sounded as if these lads were VERY familiar with winter tire performance. :lol:

Kevin